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Post by rothwellterrier on Apr 22, 2019 10:16:06 GMT 1
The ref was the blindside of the pull back. He hadn't seen it and its a straight yellow card offence for a professional foul. The linesman had a clear view of it and theyre linked up together through ear-pieces. He got booked because hed committed a clear yellow card offence. For all you know he might have said " fair cop ref" as he ran past the ref. And as you say. when was the last time a ref booked someone for dissent so casually without having a serious word with the player aswell? Never happens. A straight yellow card unless you're Will Hughes 😡 He really wound me up on Saturday. Constantly fouling and chelping to the ref. The final straw came when he fell to the floor in the second half, raised his head to see if the ref had s given him the FK, when he hadn't he jumped up and went chasing after the ball.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 22, 2019 10:16:49 GMT 1
Yeah. Not for the first time this season by a long way, our player gets penalised whilst an opposition player is let off for the exact same offence. How Hughes didn;t get booked in that game was a joke.
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Post by impact on Apr 22, 2019 10:38:46 GMT 1
We need him for Friday, even if it's just to put two feet through this diving little twat.
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,834
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Post by Amigo on Apr 22, 2019 10:59:12 GMT 1
Never, EVER as a keeper pass out centrally. Lossl again is the root of the goal. So slack. Absolute rubbish. Hogg was the only player free and had a simple pass to Kongolo on when he received it but didn't take it.
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 22, 2019 12:13:38 GMT 1
For the record, despite anything disparaging I've written, I bloody love Hoggy
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 22, 2019 12:42:52 GMT 1
For the record, despite anything disparaging I've written, I bloody love Hoggy Same. It's saying what you see, which is a foreign concept to some of the crackpots on here who just want to prove a point.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Apr 22, 2019 12:53:38 GMT 1
For the record, despite anything disparaging I've written, I bloody love Hoggy Same. It's saying what you see, which is a foreign concept to some of the crackpots on here who just want to prove a point. Can’t believe that one of the clubs best players in the past 4 years is getting all this flack. Hogg will be a key player ( once again ) for us next season. He’s suffering like all of us with a lack of confidence at the moment. Hardly surprising given the debacle of this season.
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Hogg
Apr 22, 2019 14:09:59 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 22, 2019 14:09:59 GMT 1
Never, EVER as a keeper pass out centrally. Lossl again is the root of the goal. So slack. On balance Lossl is our best keeper and has been for many years. Not perfect, but our best. All keepers make mistakes just look at this season the best have all screwed up. He has also made so magnificent saves. Not good enough for the Prem and thinks he is Messi. Given away 5 or 6 of the stupidest goals ever conceded because he thinks he is a footballer.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 22, 2019 14:11:39 GMT 1
Never, EVER as a keeper pass out centrally. Lossl again is the root of the goal. So slack. Absolute rubbish. Hogg was the only player free and had a simple pass to Kongolo on when he received it but didn't take it. You dont ever pass centrally to your own player who is facing the goal and under pressure...not ever. One mistake and its over. Better to concede a corner.
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Hogg
Apr 22, 2019 14:25:14 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Apr 22, 2019 14:25:14 GMT 1
Hogg certainly not good at present time
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Post by haveitback on Apr 22, 2019 20:06:34 GMT 1
Just a note on Hogg, when we got promoted I remember the speech he gave on stage after the promotion party in town and he was pissed as a fart emotional and stated the club should do everything possible to sign the players we had on loan and keep the squad together, which to me showed he cared and was buzzing and excited about the future, iam not excusing his performances but maybe he's hurting a lot because he cares so much and the fact we've been dog shit this season has hit him particular hard, mentally the same way it's hit schindler, I reckon writing hogg off and blaming him isn't the key I think after the summer break he will come back rejuvenated along with mounie. At least I hope they do.
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Post by wildbillthetownfan on Apr 22, 2019 22:01:24 GMT 1
Yeah. Not for the first time this season by a long way, our player gets penalised whilst an opposition player is let off for the exact same offence. How Hughes didn;t get booked in that game was a joke. Hughes should have been booked for all the constant moaning to the ref every time he was tackled trying to make out he was fouled, while every time he committed a foul it was a fair tackle. Whinging prat who typifies everything that is bad with the greedy league.
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Hogg
Apr 22, 2019 22:09:07 GMT 1
Post by ritchie on Apr 22, 2019 22:09:07 GMT 1
Just a note on Hogg, when we got promoted I remember the speech he gave on stage after the promotion party in town and he was pissed as a fart emotional and stated the club should do everything possible to sign the players we had on loan and keep the squad together, which to me showed he cared and was buzzing and excited about the future, iam not excusing his performances but maybe he's hurting a lot because he cares so much and the fact we've been dog shit this season has hit him particular hard, mentally the same way it's hit schindler, I reckon writing hogg off and blaming him isn't the key I think after the summer break he will come back rejuvenated along with mounie. At least I hope they do.
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,834
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Post by Amigo on Apr 23, 2019 0:02:58 GMT 1
Absolute rubbish. Hogg was the only player free and had a simple pass to Kongolo on when he received it but didn't take it. You dont ever pass centrally to your own player who is facing the goal and under pressure...not ever. One mistake and its over. Better to concede a corner. Happens week in week out, the vast majority of players would have coped with that pass no problem. I'd imagine Hogg would normally as well considering he had a very simple pass on but for some reason was completely off it on Saturday.
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Post by explorer on Apr 23, 2019 7:58:13 GMT 1
Absolute rubbish. Hogg was the only player free and had a simple pass to Kongolo on when he received it but didn't take it. You dont ever pass centrally to your own player who is facing the goal and under pressure...not ever. One mistake and its over. Better to concede a corner. Sorry Oti but he was under no pressure at all when the pass was made, his lack of awareness and poor first touch did for us. Not the first time he's being caught in possession and cost us either, but shit happens and there's been plenty of times over the last few seasons when we've been thankful he was on the pitch. For what it's worth, I've never been a fan of splitting the central defenders and trusting a technically limited defensive destroyer to accept the ball with his back to play, especially given the speed of movement and thought of current day PL forwards.
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Hogg
Apr 23, 2019 9:26:48 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 23, 2019 9:26:48 GMT 1
You dont ever pass centrally to your own player who is facing the goal and under pressure...not ever. One mistake and its over. Better to concede a corner. Sorry Oti but he was under no pressure at all when the pass was made, his lack of awareness and poor first touch did for us. Not the first time he's being caught in possession and cost us either, but shit happens and there's been plenty of times over the last few seasons when we've been thankful he was on the pitch. For what it's worth, I've never been a fan of splitting the central defenders and trusting a technically limited defensive destroyer to accept the ball with his back to play, especially given the speed of movement and thought of current day PL forwards. Apologies....watched it back..he was far more advanced than i realised. I usually watch the game high up but i was pretty low down. Bad mistake by Hogg though.. Still, what i say holds true....coach keepers to keep it simple and narrow angles and risk. keepers should not pass out centrally in case of error.
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Hogg
Apr 23, 2019 9:39:42 GMT 1
Post by In sooth- - on Apr 23, 2019 9:39:42 GMT 1
All our players get caught in possession now and again. We have only one player who has the ability to extricate himself Moy but he slips up now and again and has been known to foul to stop the opposition!
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Post by mikececere on Apr 23, 2019 23:33:16 GMT 1
Hogg has always had a poor touch when we had Ollie and clayts he looked poor in comparison. Yes Wagner improved him and he has never let us down. But he's not the future , good on the half way line nothing going forward. Not technically good enough to shoot or play the killer ball. Met his match now that bacuna has arrived and I'm really sorry to say this but he's not as hard as we are all lead to believe.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Apr 24, 2019 8:08:13 GMT 1
Hogg has always had a poor touch when we had Ollie and clayts he looked poor in comparison. Yes Wagner improved him and he has never let us down. But he's not the future , good on the half way line nothing going forward. Not technically good enough to shoot or play the killer ball. Met his match now that bacuna has arrived and I'm really sorry to say this but he's not as hard as we are all lead to believe. You mean all this time he has been pulling the wool over our eyes and is just a little softie? Of course he is a ‘hard man’. Dont get me wrong, he isn’t a Vinnie Jones, Roy Keane, Mick Harford ‘hard man’ but in today’s game (which is nearly a non contact sport) he is a tough player. He has to be, his weakness is definitely his technical ability but he makes up for that with his gritty fight. You are right in saying he offers nothing going forward, that isn’t his job, football isn’t all about the front players but unfortunately the kids today only care about forward thinking players and don’t appreciate that unseen work that goes with a midfielder.
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Post by mids on Apr 24, 2019 8:18:20 GMT 1
Hogg has always had a poor touch when we had Ollie and clayts he looked poor in comparison. Yes Wagner improved him and he has never let us down. But he's not the future , good on the half way line nothing going forward. Not technically good enough to shoot or play the killer ball. Met his match now that bacuna has arrived and I'm really sorry to say this but he's not as hard as we are all lead to believe. Not one of the midfielders we have, or had in the same period, would have played so soon after the neck injury he received at Bristol City - that was hard enough for me. In the modern game, and all it's H&S bullshit, he is our enforcer. He's limited, but he knows that and excels (generally) at what he does best.
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 513
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 24, 2019 8:37:34 GMT 1
Sorry Oti but he was under no pressure at all when the pass was made, his lack of awareness and poor first touch did for us. Not the first time he's being caught in possession and cost us either, but shit happens and there's been plenty of times over the last few seasons when we've been thankful he was on the pitch. For what it's worth, I've never been a fan of splitting the central defenders and trusting a technically limited defensive destroyer to accept the ball with his back to play, especially given the speed of movement and thought of current day PL forwards. Apologies....watched it back..he was far more advanced than i realised. I usually watch the game high up but i was pretty low down. Bad mistake by Hogg though.. Still, what i say holds true....coach keepers to keep it simple and narrow angles and risk. keepers should not pass out centrally in case of error.
Welcome to Goalkeeping 1986.
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Hogg
Apr 24, 2019 8:44:03 GMT 1
via mobile
TTCMatt likes this
Post by rastrick32 on Apr 24, 2019 8:44:03 GMT 1
Apologies....watched it back..he was far more advanced than i realised. I usually watch the game high up but i was pretty low down. Bad mistake by Hogg though.. Still, what i say holds true....coach keepers to keep it simple and narrow angles and risk. keepers should not pass out centrally in case of error.
Welcome to Goalkeeping 1986. Haha! That Liverpool goalie and the Man City goalie base their games on risk. The benefits far outweigh the odd mistake.
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Hogg
Apr 24, 2019 9:34:24 GMT 1
Post by mids on Apr 24, 2019 9:34:24 GMT 1
Welcome to Goalkeeping 1986. Haha! That Liverpool goalie and the Man City goalie base their games on risk. The benefits far outweigh the odd mistake. Our keepers aren't at the same standard as them two though in fairness Plus if either of them make a mistake then their respective strike forces are able to score umpteen goals to outweigh the odd mistake - our strike 'force' is a little less potent
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Hogg
Apr 24, 2019 14:23:55 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 24, 2019 14:23:55 GMT 1
Apologies....watched it back..he was far more advanced than i realised. I usually watch the game high up but i was pretty low down. Bad mistake by Hogg though.. Still, what i say holds true....coach keepers to keep it simple and narrow angles and risk. keepers should not pass out centrally in case of error.Welcome to Goalkeeping 1986. Angles. I understand your point....but any coach who lets a non-footballer...a goalie...pass out centrally is not doing his job. Most goals are from errors. To receive a pass from a goalie centrally you face the goal. You are virtually blind to risk. Warnock would have gone mental!
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 513
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 24, 2019 14:49:36 GMT 1
Welcome to Goalkeeping 1986. Angles. I understand your point....but any coach who lets a non-footballer...a goalie...pass out centrally is not doing his job. Most goals are from errors. To receive a pass from a goalie centrally you face the goal. You are virtually blind to risk. Warnock would have gone mental! Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
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Hogg
Apr 24, 2019 16:39:22 GMT 1
Post by Town Duppy on Apr 24, 2019 16:39:22 GMT 1
Welcome to Goalkeeping 1986. Haha! That Liverpool goalie and the Man City goalie base their games on risk. The benefits far outweigh the odd mistake. Were they taught by Albert Lamorisse?
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Hogg
Apr 24, 2019 19:33:23 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 24, 2019 19:33:23 GMT 1
Angles. I understand your point....but any coach who lets a non-footballer...a goalie...pass out centrally is not doing his job. Most goals are from errors. To receive a pass from a goalie centrally you face the goal. You are virtually blind to risk. Warnock would have gone mental! Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
I have some (limited) insight in to this and modern coaching. I dont agree with it in this case. This approach will also be debunked with time. I know Lossl has given 4-5 goals away by kicking centrally. Those goals are worth over a million pounds each. They need not have happened. The goalie is for stopping goals. The only exception is his distribution on quick breakways when the opposition are out of position. A man facing his own goal recieving a ball from the keeper is blind to whats behind him. Lose it there and he is in big trouble. Next you will be advocating passing around on the six yard line. A simple coaching example...i would always take short corners....always. When the ball is dead one must take the most productive option. One goal is scored directly from every 39th corner. Thats an average of less than 5 goals per season per team. Why cross then? Maths, angles and errors. Thats the future of the modern game. Change is not necessarily progress.
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Hogg
Apr 24, 2019 19:48:12 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 24, 2019 19:48:12 GMT 1
A million pound each ! Blimey . Maybe the premier league are dishing out millions for goal difference these days
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 24, 2019 20:14:51 GMT 1
Within 25 seconds Ederson passed to Fernandhino who was under more pressure than Hogg and facing his goal. It never looked a risk.
The only argument Lossl was at fault at all was whether he should have thought Hogg isn't Fernandhino and was more likely to make a balls up of something you wouldn't expect at this level.
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 513
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Hogg
Apr 25, 2019 13:11:14 GMT 1
tobbyg likes this
Post by TTCMatt on Apr 25, 2019 13:11:14 GMT 1
Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
I have some (limited) insight in to this and modern coaching. I dont agree with it in this case. This approach will also be debunked with time. I know Lossl has given 4-5 goals away by kicking centrally. Those goals are worth over a million pounds each. They need not have happened. The goalie is for stopping goals. The only exception is his distribution on quick breakways when the opposition are out of position. A man facing his own goal recieving a ball from the keeper is blind to whats behind him. Lose it there and he is in big trouble. Next you will be advocating passing around on the six yard line. A simple coaching example...i would always take short corners....always. When the ball is dead one must take the most productive option. One goal is scored directly from every 39th corner. Thats an average of less than 5 goals per season per team. Why cross then? Maths, angles and errors. Thats the future of the modern game.Change is not necessarily progress. Not sure something can be debunked when it's worked and helped deliver trophies for the last decade. Football will evolve again at some point it always does, but you can't debunk something that's worked in the past, it's just an evolution.
Everything else you've written is pretty much word for word what Charles Hughes said was the future of the game in the early 70's. Apart from crossing, he was big on that providing you had a target man.
As an aside, Man City killed off Man Utd with the 2nd goal which started with passing in and around their own penalty box last night - not that I'd advocate my team doing that with any regularity I would add.
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