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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 8:13:51 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 8:13:51 GMT 1
If the article on Hogg in the Yorkshire post is anything to go by he sounds as though he plans to be here next season - I also like his comments about those not wanting to be here ship them out quick! For all his limitations no one can argue about his desire, aggression and always wanting to win. I particularly liked the part about keeping it 0-0 for as long as possible...
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by ben1987 on Apr 27, 2019 8:30:42 GMT 1
If the article on Hogg in the Yorkshire post is anything to go by he sounds as though he plans to be here next season - I also like his comments about those not wanting to be here ship them out quick! For all his limitations no one can argue about his desire, aggression and always wanting to win. Hoggs limited, I wish his heart and desire would rub off on others. He’s a bit similar to Robbie Savage, maybe not as much of a c*** but similar in ability and always gives 100%. Some of the others though... the three Danes will not be here next season and the fact they know they won’t and don’t want to be you can only image the toxic mentality in the dressing room. Schindler looks a broken man, he cares so much but this season must be crushing him. Him, Hogg, Bacuna, Kongolo, Mooy and Grant are all players we need to be trying to keep. I’d give Hogg the job of deciding and telling those who stays and who goes.
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Post by turbo2 on Apr 27, 2019 8:59:09 GMT 1
If the article on Hogg in the Yorkshire post is anything to go by he sounds as though he plans to be here next season - I also like his comments about those not wanting to be here ship them out quick! For all his limitations no one can argue about his desire, aggression and always wanting to win. Hoggs limited, I wish his heart and desire would rub off on others. He’s a bit similar to Robbie Savage, maybe not as much of a c*** but similar in ability and always gives 100%. Some of the others though... the three Danes will not be here next season and the fact they know they won’t and don’t want to be you can only image the toxic mentality in the dressing room. Schindler looks a broken man, he cares so much but this season must be crushing him. Him, Hogg, Bacuna, Kongolo, Mooy and Grant are all players we need to be trying to keep. I’d give Hogg the job of deciding and telling those who stays and who goes. Cani be there when he tells mounie to fuck right off
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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 10:26:19 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 27, 2019 10:26:19 GMT 1
Must watch a different Stankovic to me if you see one with less technical ability and passing range than Hoggy 🤔 I guess I must 🤷♂️ Apart from last night 😨
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Deleted
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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 16:17:24 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 16:17:24 GMT 1
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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 20:34:42 GMT 1
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 27, 2019 20:34:42 GMT 1
Never, EVER as a keeper pass out centrally. Lossl again is the root of the goal. So slack. Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice. Vindicated just one match after your shite. NEVER pass centrally from the keeper.
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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 20:37:14 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 27, 2019 20:37:14 GMT 1
Angles. I understand your point....but any coach who lets a non-footballer...a goalie...pass out centrally is not doing his job. Most goals are from errors. To receive a pass from a goalie centrally you face the goal. You are virtually blind to risk. Warnock would have gone mental! Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
Did you see the game Matty? 8 secoonds in and again Lossl passes centrally to a donkey facing his own goals and we are 1 down. I knew i was right...i did not expect to be vindicated 10 seconds in.
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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 20:40:25 GMT 1
Post by yappledapple on Apr 27, 2019 20:40:25 GMT 1
Hoggs limited, I wish his heart and desire would rub off on others. He’s a bit similar to Robbie Savage, maybe not as much of a c*** but similar in ability and always gives 100%. Some of the others though... the three Danes will not be here next season and the fact they know they won’t and don’t want to be you can only image the toxic mentality in the dressing room. Schindler looks a broken man, he cares so much but this season must be crushing him. Him, Hogg, Bacuna, Kongolo, Mooy and Grant are all players we need to be trying to keep. I’d give Hogg the job of deciding and telling those who stays and who goes. Cani be there when he tells mounie to fuck right off He probably did last night; he was really ranting and raving at anyone who made the slightest of errors; saw him give Tommy Smith and Mbenza a talking to more than once! He does put the effort in and really cares; his heart is firmly on his sleeve.
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TTCMatt
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 27, 2019 22:26:40 GMT 1
Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
Did you see the game Matty? 8 secoonds in and again Lossl passes centrally to a donkey facing his own goals and we are 1 down. I knew i was right...i did not expect to be vindicated 10 seconds in. I was there. If you look behind the goal as it goes in you can see a bloke mouthing "f****** hell, Ron's going to dine out over that for the next 20 years on DATM".
Alisson also did it all game including at one point chipping the ball directly over the head of Grant to someone 5 yards behind him in a central area, they spun countered and almost scored. I think the lesson is to not pass to someone who turns slower than what milk does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 23:23:05 GMT 1
Angles. I understand your point....but any coach who lets a non-footballer...a goalie...pass out centrally is not doing his job. Most goals are from errors. To receive a pass from a goalie centrally you face the goal. You are virtually blind to risk. Warnock would have gone mental! Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielderder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
A pleasure to read from someone who knows what they're actually talking about. 👍👍👍
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Hogg
Apr 27, 2019 23:53:37 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 27, 2019 23:53:37 GMT 1
Warnock is a throwback to the 90's. He's a student of the Charles Hughes model of football which is now largely derided as one of the main factors of keeping English football and footballers technically inferior to their European counterparts - but that's another discussion!
I'm an ex goalkeeper and a grass roots goalkeeper coach. From my experience, footwork and the ability to utilise the ball at a Keepers feet is the fastest growing training point in football. It's estimated that over 70% of a goalkeepers touches of the ball are with his feet. With that in mind pro and GR coaches are trying to utilise that 70% from being a punt downfield into the ether to guaranteed retention of the ball to work it through the thirds. It's born great success in all top sides and has filtered its way down to ourselves with Wagner also preferring a keeper to play out (often with more difficulty than an Ederson or Nauer admittedly). Hogg has taken that very same pass hundreds of times in the last 3 years - that goal is 99.9% his fault IMO. He takes a heavy touch and then tries to play a suicidal pass through a Watford player. If he's not checked over his shoulder for the press or isn't comfortable then he has to knock the ball back to Lossl first time and then Lossl will do as you've prescribed and knock the ball down the pitch. Whether you think a goalkeeper should be a footballer or not, what's not disputable for me is that your defensive midfielderder certainly is a footballer and he should be comfortable receiving in space at any point on the pitch. If he's not, someone else should be there.
If you're that bothered there's a few articles knocking about that are interesting about it.
A pleasure to read from someone who knows what they're actually talking about. 👍👍👍 What u doing up at this time......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 0:10:08 GMT 1
A pleasure to read from someone who knows what they're actually talking about. 👍👍👍 What u doing up at this time...... Getting pissed in the Vulcan mate. 😄
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 0:13:19 GMT 1
Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice. Vindicated just one match after your shite. NEVER pass centrally from the keeper. That sounds like the kind of mantra issued to a kids team. Did you not watch Town get promoted?? A lot of that was about Danny Ward getting possession, two centre half’s splitting wide, full backs pushing up, resulting in stretching the opposition across the pitch, then Hogg dropped short in the middle to receive the ball in the space crested at the edge of the penalty area and we’re then building triangles forward through Mooy or recycling back round the defenders to shift the other side about until another gap opens. What you should be saying is don’t pass centrally from the keeper to a player who is out of his depth technically and totally uncomfortable when pressed...and more importantly, as a manager, don’t pick such a player in that key role when you’ve got other more suited players available.
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bigtruck
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 0:36:30 GMT 1
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 28, 2019 0:36:30 GMT 1
Absolute bollocks Oti. You’ve never done a day’s coaching in your life. That’s the whole point of having CBs pull to the edge of areas to create space in the middle. It was Hoggs mistake no doubt. Poor control and awareness but don’t just make shit up to hear your own voice. Vindicated just one match after your shite. NEVER pass centrally from the keeper. Nice try. But it wasn’t lossl that passed the ball straight to salah now was it. You’re whole theory is based on 2 mistakes you’ve seen and Ignoring the number times it works as planned including in the same games. I get you being pissed at the error I was too and it was embarrassing but if you are going to hammer players then pick the right ones.
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Post by Floyds on Apr 28, 2019 9:14:36 GMT 1
15 seconds, away at Liverpool, fuck me - just get it up the pitch and keep it tight for 5 minutes. That’s what I’d have told the players in any case....
No upside whatsoever in passing it about the back like that. Hardly going to do anything other than give the ball away, the only question being whereabouts on the pitch it would be.
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 9:16:47 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 28, 2019 9:16:47 GMT 1
Vindicated just one match after your shite. NEVER pass centrally from the keeper. That sounds like the kind of mantra issued to a kids team. Did you not watch Town get promoted?? A lot of that was about Danny Ward getting possession, two centre half’s splitting wide, full backs pushing up, resulting in stretching the opposition across the pitch, then Hogg dropped short in the middle to receive the ball in the space crested at the edge of the penalty area and we’re then building triangles forward through Mooy or recycling back round the defenders to shift the other side about until another gap opens. What you should be saying is don’t pass centrally from the keeper to a player who is out of his depth technically and totally uncomfortable when pressed...and more importantly, as a manager, don’t pick such a player in that key role when you’ve got other more suited players available. And dont have a keeper that has directly given 8 goals away with bad kicking.
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 9:17:56 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 28, 2019 9:17:56 GMT 1
Vindicated just one match after your shite. NEVER pass centrally from the keeper. Nice try. But it wasn’t lossl that passed the ball straight to salah now was it. You’re whole theory is based on 2 mistakes you’ve seen and Ignoring the number times it works as planned including in the same games. I get you being pissed at the error I was too and it was embarrassing but if you are going to hammer players then pick the right ones. Make an error centrally as last man facing your own goal and its over. DONT pass there then keeps.
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bigtruck
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 9:24:15 GMT 1
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 28, 2019 9:24:15 GMT 1
That sounds like the kind of mantra issued to a kids team. Did you not watch Town get promoted?? A lot of that was about Danny Ward getting possession, two centre half’s splitting wide, full backs pushing up, resulting in stretching the opposition across the pitch, then Hogg dropped short in the middle to receive the ball in the space crested at the edge of the penalty area and we’re then building triangles forward through Mooy or recycling back round the defenders to shift the other side about until another gap opens. What you should be saying is don’t pass centrally from the keeper to a player who is out of his depth technically and totally uncomfortable when pressed...and more importantly, as a manager, don’t pick such a player in that key role when you’ve got other more suited players available. And dont have a keeper that has directly given 8 goals away with bad kicking. DIRECTLY? Name them. Don’ forget the word DIRECTLY.
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 9:26:33 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 28, 2019 9:26:33 GMT 1
And dont have a keeper that has directly given 8 goals away with bad kicking. DIRECTLY? Name them. Don’ forget the word DIRECTLY. Make him responsible for the goal at Liverpool...directly... despite the goal being indirect. Semantics.
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bigtruck
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 28, 2019 9:39:00 GMT 1
DIRECTLY? Name them. Don’ forget the word DIRECTLY. Make him responsible for the goal at Liverpool...directly... despite the goal being indirect. Semantics. It’s not semantics though is it. It’s called you being incorrect. Again.
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 9:43:34 GMT 1
Post by kennyk2 on Apr 28, 2019 9:43:34 GMT 1
Despite misgivings surrounding Hogg (if he didn't make the odd mistake and lack a yard of pace compared to other PL midfielders, he would be playing for a higher team than Town), simply because of his attitude, loyalty and the character that he shows, he is the first player on my team sheet.
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Post by detox on Apr 28, 2019 9:44:41 GMT 1
If you're going to play that way, ie passing out from the back...players have to be confident and able to receive a ball in tight positions. This is what DW said 2 years ago and nearly every team in the PL plays this way. The key of course is awareness...aware of who is around you and, teamwork..ie payers moving into a space to help you out..that is making yourself available to receive a pass from a mate in a tight spot. This last point is where we have predominantly failed this season...we called it running off the ball but it's the same thing. It involves running a lot and is hard work but even when you watch Man City, the best paid players in the PL, they HAVE to work and run, be available to receive a pass from a team mate..this is whythey can string together a dozen or so passes in tight spaces.. Too many Town players stand and watch and in some cases (mounie in particular) hide behind an opponent because they don't want the ball.
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Post by andyeastleake on Apr 28, 2019 9:55:16 GMT 1
And dont have a keeper that has directly given 8 goals away with bad kicking. DIRECTLY? Name them. Don’ forget the word DIRECTLY. Come on Oti you've had half an hour. It can't take you half an hour to type out the eight. ....& you must know the 8 you mean it's such an exact number (not "about" 8 or "at least" 8). ...or is shouting "semantics" your other option to shouting "pedantic" when you realise you're wrong (or at the very least exaggerated).
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 10:14:27 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 28, 2019 10:14:27 GMT 1
Make him responsible for the goal at Liverpool...directly... despite the goal being indirect. Semantics. It’s not semantics though is it. It’s called you being incorrect. Again. Forgotten more than you know...truck off.
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 10:16:29 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 28, 2019 10:16:29 GMT 1
DIRECTLY? Name them. Don’ forget the word DIRECTLY. Come on Oti you've had half an hour. It can't take you half an hour to type out the eight. ....& you must know the 8 you mean it's such an exact number (not "about" 8 or "at least" 8). ...or is shouting "semantics" your other option to shouting "pedantic" when you realise you're wrong (or at the very least exaggerated). You again as well Andy pandy? Wont trawl the seasons, feel sure the Town fans recall the 4 or 5last season where he kicked the ball straight to oppos and they scored. His kicking is woeful....bar the 70 yarder to Grant the other night.
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bigtruck
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 28, 2019 14:15:56 GMT 1
It’s not semantics though is it. It’s called you being incorrect. Again. Forgotten more than you know...truck off. If that’s true then fair play. But the reason no one believes a word you say is you’ve yet to back up any argument with anything but your usual hyperbole. It would also seem that part of that “Forgotten more than I Know” is that you’ve have actually forgotten those 8 goals Lossl has DIRECTLY given away. Oh that and the definition of humility.
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 14:54:05 GMT 1
Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 28, 2019 14:54:05 GMT 1
Forgotten more than you know...truck off. If that’s true then fair play. But the reason no one believes a word you say is you’ve yet to back up any argument with anything but your usual hyperbole. It would also seem that part of that “Forgotten more than I Know” is that you’ve have actually forgotten those 8 goals Lossl has DIRECTLY given away. Oh that and the definition of humility. Never claimed humility. Claimed Lossl was bang average and a liability almost 2 years ago though. Think you will find that my 10,000 posts mean plenty know me on here and i have been posting a little longer than a week last Wednesday.
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bigtruck
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Post by bigtruck on Apr 28, 2019 16:08:54 GMT 1
If that’s true then fair play. But the reason no one believes a word you say is you’ve yet to back up any argument with anything but your usual hyperbole. It would also seem that part of that “Forgotten more than I Know” is that you’ve have actually forgotten those 8 goals Lossl has DIRECTLY given away. Oh that and the definition of humility. Never claimed humility. Claimed Lossl was bang average and a liability almost 2 years ago though. Think you will find that my 10,000 posts mean plenty know me on here and i have been posting a little longer than a week last Wednesday. More hyperbole. What you claimed was lossl had DIRECTLY given away 8 goals and have yet to provide details of these 8 goals. And when pressed to provide said evidence can only resort to petty mud slinging and insults. As for 10,000 posts, I tip my hat to you. The effort it must take to continuously post that amount of drivel is an enviable position to be in. I have no problem with people having an opinion. Having a different opinion and debating the differences are what these forums are for. Opinions don’t need to be proven by the addition of facts. But you constantly deride others opinions with what you claim to be facts but then can’t provide evidence of the facts. That sir is a sign of an imbecile. An imbecile whom doesn’t understand humility.
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Deleted
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Hogg
Apr 28, 2019 17:50:08 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 17:50:08 GMT 1
That sounds like the kind of mantra issued to a kids team. Did you not watch Town get promoted?? A lot of that was about Danny Ward getting possession, two centre half’s splitting wide, full backs pushing up, resulting in stretching the opposition across the pitch, then Hogg dropped short in the middle to receive the ball in the space crested at the edge of the penalty area and we’re then building triangles forward through Mooy or recycling back round the defenders to shift the other side about until another gap opens. What you should be saying is don’t pass centrally from the keeper to a player who is out of his depth technically and totally uncomfortable when pressed...and more importantly, as a manager, don’t pick such a player in that key role when you’ve got other more suited players available. And dont have a keeper that has directly given 8 goals away with bad kicking. Agreed. However there was absolutely nothing wrong with his kick to Stankovic who was in plenty of space...he made the pressure and succumbed it it all by himself....Because...he’s not a technical player, and he’s not quick or calm on the ball...why on earth we find him playing that position is a total mystery to me!
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