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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 11:48:59 GMT 1
Were people so upset when 'Jacko' rocked up at Lincoln?
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Post by runner76 on Jan 4, 2023 11:51:37 GMT 1
If DW and CC end up at bigger clubs with more funds available you can’t really argue with the decisions?….it would be annoying if they’d gone to local rivals or shitter clubs….
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Jan 4, 2023 11:51:49 GMT 1
Were people so upset when 'Jacko' rocked up at Lincoln? I was fuming to be honest
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 11:55:13 GMT 1
If DW and CC end up at bigger clubs with more funds available you can’t really argue with the decisions?….it would be annoying if they’d gone to local rivals or shitter clubs…. Football managers taking football management jobs, who'd have thunk it? Town fans ought to concentrate on what's going on at our club rather than everywhere else. Mark Fotheringham is the Town manager, not David Wagner and not Carlos Corberan.
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Post by Up the Duff. on Jan 4, 2023 11:56:28 GMT 1
I think there was some mitigation in what happened in his last two jobs but I take the point. I did use "if", in making my point. Perception is however something entirely different. Some expected DW to return, and where disappointed when that didn't happen. The memory DW left was of some truly wonderful days, that won't ever change. When you look at our performances on the pitch and more so the apparent issues off the pitch it is only natural people will be frustrated as to where we find ourselves. I have no negativity towards DW or CC, but any relative success they achieve will be categorised in the words of the late Jim Bowen: "Look at what you could have won". No negativity here, only facts. There's no guarantee that Wagner, if he'd returned, would have done anything here, especially if his previous two jobs are anything to go by. It's funny seeing people slagging Fotheringham off for literally everything he does (some things quite rightly, other things not so much), yet if Wagner was doing those things, he'd be immune from any criticism whatsoever. Town fans are really hypocritical at times. Fotheringham hasn't taken us to the Premier league and kept us up so I am not sure it quite the same is it.
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Post by sonny on Jan 4, 2023 11:57:43 GMT 1
Be interesting to see how he gets on in the post-Brexit era without being able to bring over German non-internationals. His knowledge of and ability to attract second-tier players like Schindler, Lowe, Hefele was one of his biggest strengths.
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Post by Up the Duff. on Jan 4, 2023 11:59:33 GMT 1
Two miracles.. what more do you want ? They weren't miracles, I absolutely hate that narrative. We were one of the favourites for relegation when we went up and massive favourites after staying up. OK.. amazing achievements ?
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:01:22 GMT 1
No negativity here, only facts. There's no guarantee that Wagner, if he'd returned, would have done anything here, especially if his previous two jobs are anything to go by. It's funny seeing people slagging Fotheringham off for literally everything he does (some things quite rightly, other things not so much), yet if Wagner was doing those things, he'd be immune from any criticism whatsoever. Town fans are really hypocritical at times. Fotheringham hasn't taken us to the Premier league and kept us up so I am not sure it quite the same is it. No manager should be immune from criticism, no matter what they've done.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:08:22 GMT 1
They weren't miracles, I absolutely hate that narrative. We were one of the favourites for relegation when we went up and massive favourites after staying up. OK.. amazing achievements ? I bet not one Town fan thought we'd get relegated that season before a ball was kicked. It was just lazy journalism and punditry rather than us being shit. Amazing achievements yes, but fully deserved. Saying they were miracles suggests we didn't deserve to achieve those successes.
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Post by Up the Duff. on Jan 4, 2023 12:16:21 GMT 1
The bookies had us as one of the favourites not fans or journalists... bookies tend to do their homework.
Not sure why you referred to Fotheringham on a thread about wagner joining Norwich.
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Jan 4, 2023 12:17:50 GMT 1
Be interesting to see how he gets on in the post-Brexit era without being able to bring over German non-internationals. His knowledge of and ability to attract second-tier players like Schindler, Lowe, Hefele was one of his biggest strengths. Good point.
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Post by Up the Duff. on Jan 4, 2023 12:19:51 GMT 1
We were one of the favourites for relegation when we went up and massive favourites after staying up. OK.. amazing achievements ? I bet not one Town fan thought we'd get relegated that season before a ball was kicked. It was just lazy journalism and punditry rather than us being shit. Amazing achievements yes, but fully deserved. Saying they were miracles suggests we didn't deserve to achieve those successes. OK so you agree amazing achievements ! Seriously you are getting hung up on the use of one word, that being 'Miracles'. You need to chill out and see the general point and stop splitting hairs over nothing. You must be bored or simply argumentative.
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Post by ldotm on Jan 4, 2023 12:21:59 GMT 1
In real terms this doesn't really make any difference to us. I wish DW all the very best. In perception terms, along with CC starting so well at WBA, it is a sad reflection on what our club could, maybe should, have been. But it's alright because we had a great run and "punched above our weight". You'll have to forgive my sarcasm and bitterness. I'm hoping that the next few months will see our fortunes change for the better. If they don't and DW does well and Carlos continues to do well then it will be another kick while we are down. Be interesting to see how Wagner does at Norwich. Absolutely laughable that certain culprits undermine Wagner’s tenure here and coaching ability and Carlos’ playing style and ability even last year too. I put on a post last year to be careful what you wish for. Unfortunately it’s rung to be true.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:29:47 GMT 1
In real terms this doesn't really make any difference to us. I wish DW all the very best. In perception terms, along with CC starting so well at WBA, it is a sad reflection on what our club could, maybe should, have been. But it's alright because we had a great run and "punched above our weight". You'll have to forgive my sarcasm and bitterness. I'm hoping that the next few months will see our fortunes change for the better. If they don't and DW does well and Carlos continues to do well then it will be another kick while we are down. Be interesting to see how Wagner does at Norwich. Absolutely laughable that certain culprits undermine Wagner’s tenure here and coaching ability and Carlos’ playing style and ability even last year too. I put on a post last year to be careful what you wish for. Unfortunately it’s rung to be true. The same people that were undermining him last season (claiming that the Wagner promotion season was basically rubbish and a fluke - there were plenty people suggesting that last season by the way) are the ones that wanted him to return a couple of months ago. It seems that a lot of the fans change their opinions to suit their agenda at any given point. There hasn't been a better manager than David Wagner at this club for a very long time. I'm still a bit bitter about how it all went tits up in the second Premier League season and I don't think he's ever been the same manager since, especially judging his track record since leaving us. However, as a Town manager, he achieved promotion and success, something that very few Town managers have achieved in our 114-year history. Wagner produced the best football I've seen at this club, and I think a lot of people conveniently forget just how good we were in those first couple of seasons under him. It's not very often that I turned up at a match and knew that we'd win, but I definitely felt like that between late 2015 and mid-2017.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:31:29 GMT 1
I bet not one Town fan thought we'd get relegated that season before a ball was kicked. It was just lazy journalism and punditry rather than us being shit. Amazing achievements yes, but fully deserved. Saying they were miracles suggests we didn't deserve to achieve those successes. OK so you agree amazing achievements ! Seriously you are getting hung up on the use of one word, that being 'Miracles'. You need to chill out and see the general point and stop splitting hairs over nothing. You must be bored or simply argumentative. I feel that the word "miracle" suggests that we didn't deserve it and perhaps talks down the achievements. A lot of Town fans have been guilty of talking it down for years, such as throwing out the boring minus goal difference line or the equally as boring "we didn't score a goal in the play-offs" even though we did. Apologies if you're offended, it wasn't my intention.
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Post by dugnet on Jan 4, 2023 12:37:31 GMT 1
In real terms this doesn't really make any difference to us. I wish DW all the very best. In perception terms, along with CC starting so well at WBA, it is a sad reflection on what our club could, maybe should, have been. But it's alright because we had a great run and "punched above our weight". You'll have to forgive my sarcasm and bitterness. I'm hoping that the next few months will see our fortunes change for the better. If they don't and DW does well and Carlos continues to do well then it will be another kick while we are down. Be interesting to see how Wagner does at Norwich. Absolutely laughable that certain culprits undermine Wagner’s tenure here and coaching ability and Carlos’ playing style and ability even last year too. I put on a post last year to be careful what you wish for. Unfortunately it’s rung to be true. I have to be totally honest and around 12 months ago I was very critical of CC, how wrong I was (which I called out on myself as the 2nd half of the season unfolded). Where I have a real problem is with the attitude that we shouldn't expect better, like it was inevitable that we should expect to fall back to our "natural" place in the footall pyramid. It is such a self limiting, and, to me at least, frustrating mindset. If I were to criticise DW he played on the "little Huddersfield" a bit too much. That said he balanced that with the #nolimits battlecry. We still have an opportunity to save our Championship status and provide a new owner with a reasonable platform to build on. That must be our focus. The problem is that if we continue to struggle the ghosts of our recent past are in plain sight in the Championship. It is hard enough watching this season but to see those who did so well for us potentially show their worth really rubs salt into the wounds. The problem is no one can tell me, and there are a few who will try, that this couldn't have been avoided. The real worry is the pantomime that our club has become appears to continue and the pain increases. Lets hope for something that turns us round in the next few weeks.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2023 12:38:57 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly.
Amazing what fans of Town will moan about
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:41:10 GMT 1
Be interesting to see how Wagner does at Norwich. Absolutely laughable that certain culprits undermine Wagner’s tenure here and coaching ability and Carlos’ playing style and ability even last year too. I put on a post last year to be careful what you wish for. Unfortunately it’s rung to be true. I have to be totally honest and around 12 months ago I was very critical of CC, how wrong I was (which I called out on myself as the 2nd half of the season unfolded). Where I have a real problem is with the attitude that we shouldn't expect better, like it was inevitable that we should expect to fall back to our "natural" place in the footall pyramid. It is such a self limiting, and, to me at least, frustrating mindset. If I were to criticise DW he played on the "little Huddersfield" a bit too much. That said he balanced that with the #nolimits battlecry. We still have an opportunity to save our Championship status and provide a new owner with a reasonable platform to build on. That must be our focus. The problem is that if we continue to struggle the ghosts of our recent past are in plain sight in the Championship. It is hard enough watching this season but to see those who did so well for us potentially show their worth in plain sight really rubs salt into the wounds. The problem is no one can tell me, and there are a few who will try, that this couldn't have been avoided. The real worry is the pantomime that our club has become appears to continue and the pain increases. Lets hope for something that turns us round in the next few weeks. One thing that gets me is how the club and fans seem to undermine our achievements so much. Other clubs really exploit their past successes and are proud of them, whereas we try and belittle ours. So many times I've read on here and on social media about how we fluked promotion in 2017, the negative goal difference, we didn't score a goal in the play-offs (even though we did), the football was rubbish (even though it wasn't) and so on. Is it just Town fans that do this? It seems like it is. This constant "we're a League One club" or "we're a little club" mentality is just so wrong. Wagner was guilty of that, but he was encouraged by the club and the supporters.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jan 4, 2023 12:44:23 GMT 1
One thing that gets me is how the club and fans seem to undermine our achievements so much. Other clubs really exploit their past successes and are proud of them, whereas we try and belittle ours. So many times I've read on here and on social media about how we fluked promotion in 2017, the negative goal difference, we didn't score a goal in the play-offs (even though we did), the football was rubbish (even though it wasn't) and so on. Is it just Town fans that do this? It seems like it is. This constant "we're a League One club" or "we're a little club" mentality is just so wrong. Wagner was guilty of that, but he was encouraged by the club and the supporters. I suspect that was down to Dean. Gave him something to use to get the fans on board.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:45:19 GMT 1
I suspect that was down to Dean. Gave him something to use to get the fans on board. It isn't just Hoyle though is it? It's the general fanbase.
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Post by dugnet on Jan 4, 2023 12:46:47 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly. Amazing what fans of Town will moan about That isn't the issue though is it? This is about perception with our two most successful coaches in the last 50 + years (with all due credit to Buxton, Warnock and Jackson) potentially showing their worth in the same league. DW is a romantic/nostalgic relationship. With CC it looks ever more foolish to have not ensured he stayed. No one can tell me know that the money wasted this couldn't have been used more effectively to give CC a chance to be competitive again. By doing so the opportunity to sell the club, contractual reasons aside, would have been easier ie with the competent coach and a competitive squad. It has been nonsensical. We have plenty to be critical of, these two turning up in our league really just adds to what has been a thoroughly miserable season so far. As I said above there is a chance to rescue things, but as hopeful as I would like to be I can't say I am confident.
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Post by ritchie on Jan 4, 2023 12:48:20 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly. Amazing what fans of Town will moan about To be fair town fans would have likely been more comfortable if this happened this time last year. Since then we let our promising coach walk away and the club then cockteased the idea of wagner coming back..only to go for Mark summat the scaffolder's son.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 12:49:22 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly. Amazing what fans of Town will moan about To be fair town fans would have likely bern more comfortable if this happened this time last year. Since then we let our promising coach leave and the club cockteased the idea of wagner coming back..only to go for Mark summat the scaffolder's son. The club didn't though did they? They always said that Wagner wasn't coming back but the fans got all giddy and thought they knew best.
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Post by atowninessex on Jan 4, 2023 12:55:53 GMT 1
we need to move on I can only wish him all the best and good luck apart from when they play us
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2023 12:56:52 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly. Amazing what fans of Town will moan about That isn't the issue though is it? This is about perception with our two most successful coaches in the last 50 + years (with all due credit to Buxton, Warnock and Jackson) potentially showing their worth in the same league. DW is a romantic/nostalgic relationship. With CC it looks ever more foolish to have not ensured he stayed. No one can tell me know that the money wasted this couldn't have been used more effectively to give CC a chance to be competitive again. By doing so the opportunity to sell the club, contractual reasons aside, would have been easier ie with the competent coach and a competitive squad. It has been nonsensical. We have plenty to be critical of, these two turning up in our league really just adds to what has been a thoroughly miserable season so far. As I said above there is a chance to rescue things, but as hopeful as I would like to be I can't say I am confident. I think we need to stop this constant bleating on about the past and who to blame personally, it’s dragging us down.
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Post by dugnet on Jan 4, 2023 13:02:08 GMT 1
That isn't the issue though is it? This is about perception with our two most successful coaches in the last 50 + years (with all due credit to Buxton, Warnock and Jackson) potentially showing their worth in the same league. DW is a romantic/nostalgic relationship. With CC it looks ever more foolish to have not ensured he stayed. No one can tell me know that the money wasted this couldn't have been used more effectively to give CC a chance to be competitive again. By doing so the opportunity to sell the club, contractual reasons aside, would have been easier ie with the competent coach and a competitive squad. It has been nonsensical. We have plenty to be critical of, these two turning up in our league really just adds to what has been a thoroughly miserable season so far. As I said above there is a chance to rescue things, but as hopeful as I would like to be I can't say I am confident. I think we need to stop this constant bleating on about the past and who to blame personally, it’s dragging us down. I can't disagree. We debate on here because we are unhappy with what has happened/is happening but it doesn't change anything. The sooner we have a fresh start the better.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2023 13:13:48 GMT 1
To be fair town fans would have likely bern more comfortable if this happened this time last year. Since then we let our promising coach leave and the club cockteased the idea of wagner coming back..only to go for Mark summat the scaffolder's son. The club didn't though did they? They always said that Wagner wasn't coming back but the fans got all giddy and thought they knew best. Yeah, Think people confuse what someone on here says is going to happen, with what the club say is going to happen. Its how we 'missed out on all our transfer targets' last summer.
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Post by drayltonboy (independent) on Jan 4, 2023 13:14:27 GMT 1
Excuse pedantry, but shouldn't this thread be included on the ex players/managers thread? If not, there are surely many threads about Wagner, to which this could have been added.
What's the point of having sub threads if folk can post new threads willy nilly?
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 4, 2023 13:15:05 GMT 1
Wagner hasn't done anything in either of his two jobs after he left Town, so what suggests he'll do anything at Norwich (or here for that matter?). He started at Schalke absolutely brilliantly. But the club was a train wreck behind the scenes. It was a poisoned chalice of a job. He left Young Boys 2nd in the league. The league Young Boys had won for 4 seasons in a row and he led them to a 2nd place finish about 19 points behind the winners 🤔
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2023 13:19:53 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly. Amazing what fans of Town will moan about That isn't the issue though is it? This is about perception with our two most successful coaches in the last 50 + years (with all due credit to Buxton, Warnock and Jackson) potentially showing their worth in the same league. DW is a romantic/nostalgic relationship. With CC it looks ever more foolish to have not ensured he stayed. No one can tell me know that the money wasted this couldn't have been used more effectively to give CC a chance to be competitive again. By doing so the opportunity to sell the club, contractual reasons aside, would have been easier ie with the competent coach and a competitive squad. It has been nonsensical. We have plenty to be critical of, these two turning up in our league really just adds to what has been a thoroughly miserable season so far. As I said above there is a chance to rescue things, but as hopeful as I would like to be I can't say I am confident. You say that like it was a choice we made to NOT ensure he stayed. Firstly, IMO he'd probably been tapped up with the Olympiacos job in mind. The top club in Greece and a champions league club year after year. Secondly, to get him to stay would ( if investment was the issue ) have cost millions of pounds that the clubs doesnt have and that the owner isnt prepared to ,or simply cant, put in on top of the millions he already committed to. So how should we have ensured he stayed? Corboran dumped us, not the other way round.
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