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Post by Porrohman on Jan 4, 2023 13:21:00 GMT 1
Were people so upset when 'Jacko' rocked up at Lincoln? I wasn't even upset when he went to Bradford
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 3,306
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Post by Wingman on Jan 4, 2023 13:27:03 GMT 1
Excuse pedantry, but shouldn't this thread be included on the ex players/managers thread? If not, there are surely many threads about Wagner, to which this could have been added. What's the point of having sub threads if folk can post new threads willy nilly? A couple of points; 1. It’s a forum so members can freely create threads as they wish. If the Admin team feel the need to merge these, we can and will, as I’ve done with the duplicated Lowton threads today. 2. Wagner has been a huge part of our recent history and as such many fans still take an interest in what he is up to. Your point re him being an ex-manager is valid and would stand up to scrutiny more if he had been in charge say in the 1980’s. As he is still fresh in the memory, this is a thread that draws interest. 3. Sub-boards are there to de-clutter the main board, and on the whole they seem to work well. I’m sure if there was a huge demand for change, we would act on it.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 4, 2023 13:33:08 GMT 1
Good luck David.
Gutted we couldn't get him back here.
Went down the cheap route which will likely end up costing us more in the long run.
Norwich will be a better fit anyway, better facilities, better owners, better DOF.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 13:34:24 GMT 1
Good luck David. Gutted we couldn't get him back here. Went down the cheap route which will likely end up costing us more in the long run. Norwich will be a better fit anyway, better facilities, better owners, better DOF.That's quite hilarious seeing as though the Norwich fans want both Delia Smith and Stuart Webber out of their club...
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 4, 2023 13:36:49 GMT 1
Good luck David. Gutted we couldn't get him back here. Went down the cheap route which will likely end up costing us more in the long run. Norwich will be a better fit anyway, better facilities, better owners, better DOF.That's quite hilarious seeing as though the Norwich fans want both Delia Smith and Stuart Webber out of their club... Not as hilarious as our shitshow side circus. Did they piss away hundreds of millions of their premier league money aswell? 🤔
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 13:40:06 GMT 1
That's quite hilarious seeing as though the Norwich fans want both Delia Smith and Stuart Webber out of their club... Not as hilarious as our shitshow side circus. Did they piss away hundreds of millions of their premier league money aswell? 🤔 No idea, don't really care. I'm a Huddersfield Town fan, the other 91 clubs are completely irrelevant to me and so are the 91 other managers. I also don't remember too many complaints when the club "pissed away hundreds of millions". I don't remember anyone complaining when we signed the likes of Kongolo, Pritchard, Diakhaby, Mbenza and the rest of them. If anyone did complain, they were branded negative and all the rest of it.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 4, 2023 13:46:40 GMT 1
Not as hilarious as our shitshow side circus. Did they piss away hundreds of millions of their premier league money aswell? 🤔 No idea, don't really care. I'm a Huddersfield Town fan, the other 91 clubs are completely irrelevant to me and so are the 91 other managers. I also don't remember too many complaints when the club "pissed away hundreds of millions". I don't remember anyone complaining when we signed the likes of Kongolo, Pritchard, Diakhaby, Mbenza and the rest of them. If anyone did complain, they were branded negative and all the rest of it. It's not the fans who are paid to make those crucial decisions though, is it? Over £45m spent on those walking disasters & we recouped less than £5m. That's before you include the daft wages they were given. Way more disaster signings aswell that I can't be arsed to list that we lost millions on. Club killer signings aren't something Norwich generally do.
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Post by 28901 on Jan 4, 2023 14:06:39 GMT 1
Wagner hasn't done anything in either of his two jobs after he left Town, so what suggests he'll do anything at Norwich (or here for that matter?). He started at Schalke absolutely brilliantly. But the club was a train wreck behind the scenes. It was a poisoned chalice of a job. He left Young Boys 2nd in the league. that's a bit like leaving Celtic is second place in the Scottish Premier League.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 14:07:57 GMT 1
He started at Schalke absolutely brilliantly. But the club was a train wreck behind the scenes. It was a poisoned chalice of a job. He left Young Boys 2nd in the league. that's a bit like leaving Celtic is second place in the Scottish Premier League. They'd won it by 31 points the previous season.
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Post by 28901 on Jan 4, 2023 14:13:00 GMT 1
OK so you agree amazing achievements ! Seriously you are getting hung up on the use of one word, that being 'Miracles'. You need to chill out and see the general point and stop splitting hairs over nothing. You must be bored or simply argumentative. I feel that the word "miracle" suggests that we didn't deserve it and perhaps talks down the achievements. A lot of Town fans have been guilty of talking it down for years, such as throwing out the boring minus goal difference line or the equally as boring "we didn't score a goal in the play-offs" even though we did. Apologies if you're offended, it wasn't my intention. No one flukes promotion to the PL. Its a ridiculous claim especially considering Town were top for a long period and never outside the top six in my memory.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 14:22:14 GMT 1
I feel that the word "miracle" suggests that we didn't deserve it and perhaps talks down the achievements. A lot of Town fans have been guilty of talking it down for years, such as throwing out the boring minus goal difference line or the equally as boring "we didn't score a goal in the play-offs" even though we did. Apologies if you're offended, it wasn't my intention. No one flukes promotion to the PL. Its a ridiculous claim especially considering Town were top for a long period and never outside the top six in my memory. Exactly, we didn't go below 8th all season and we were out of the Top 6 for just one game.
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Post by townrwe on Jan 4, 2023 14:31:33 GMT 1
Gutted about this. Could end up with a Wagner vs Corberan play off final this season. Whilst we ended up with bloody MF. I know who ill be chearing on if it does.
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Post by Junior & Onuora on Jan 4, 2023 14:37:27 GMT 1
He started at Schalke absolutely brilliantly. But the club was a train wreck behind the scenes. It was a poisoned chalice of a job. He left Young Boys 2nd in the league. that's a bit like leaving Celtic is second place in the Scottish Premier League. There have been 3 different winners of the Swiss league in the last 6 years, which shows it really isn't like the SPL!
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jan 4, 2023 14:39:19 GMT 1
Our managers turning up at other clubs is surely just a symptom of us having better managers and relative success in recent years? Have a look at the manager merry-go-round in he Premier League, teams face previous managers regularly. Amazing what fans of Town will moan about Peterborough have their own mini merry go round. It’s basically Darren Ferguson and Grant McCann. It’s just stopped and they’ve changed again today.
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Jan 4, 2023 14:52:24 GMT 1
Very surprised about this, but should be interesting to see what happens to Norwich, now. Just looked at the fixtures and it would seem in March we've got WBA on Saturday 11th March, then Norwich at home on the 15th (midweek game), so that's two former Town managers within the space of 4 days or so! Think I'll be there for the Norwich game as I was intending on being in England for the Man City v Leipzig game on the Tuesday (day before). Can't wait now, especially for the reception Wagner will get!!
Has got to be WBA v Norwich for the Championship play-off final, now.
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 4, 2023 15:16:22 GMT 1
that's a bit like leaving Celtic is second place in the Scottish Premier League. There have been 3 different winners of the Swiss league in the last 6 years, which shows it really isn't like the SPL! And 4 in a row,of those 6 seasons were Young Boys, then the Kaiser took over and there was a 50 point swing
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Post by typical on Jan 4, 2023 15:31:28 GMT 1
Very surprised about this, but should be interesting to see what happens to Norwich, now. Just looked at the fixtures and it would seem in March we've got WBA on Saturday 11th March, then Norwich at home on the 15th (midweek game), so that's two former Town managers within the space of 4 days or so! Think I'll be there for the Norwich game as I was intending on being in England for the Man City v Leipzig game on the Tuesday (day before). Can't wait now, especially for the reception Wagner will get!! Has got to be WBA v Norwich for the Championship play-off final, now. Corberan will win that battle me thinks
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 15:40:37 GMT 1
Very surprised about this, but should be interesting to see what happens to Norwich, now. Just looked at the fixtures and it would seem in March we've got WBA on Saturday 11th March, then Norwich at home on the 15th (midweek game), so that's two former Town managers within the space of 4 days or so! Think I'll be there for the Norwich game as I was intending on being in England for the Man City v Leipzig game on the Tuesday (day before). Can't wait now, especially for the reception Wagner will get!! Has got to be WBA v Norwich for the Championship play-off final, now. Corberan will win that battle me thinks Wagner has won a play-off final, Corberan hasn't.
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Post by waggers on Jan 4, 2023 15:49:37 GMT 1
I really do not think Wagner was even spoken to about returning, i think it was a lot of hope and newspaer/twitter stuff but in reality he was not even on the list. I think he was the first man on the list and I think all the stuff about not wanting to move his family back to England is false, I think Wagner didn't like what he was told and didn't take the job based off that.
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Post by dugnet on Jan 4, 2023 16:05:57 GMT 1
That isn't the issue though is it? This is about perception with our two most successful coaches in the last 50 + years (with all due credit to Buxton, Warnock and Jackson) potentially showing their worth in the same league. DW is a romantic/nostalgic relationship. With CC it looks ever more foolish to have not ensured he stayed. No one can tell me know that the money wasted this couldn't have been used more effectively to give CC a chance to be competitive again. By doing so the opportunity to sell the club, contractual reasons aside, would have been easier ie with the competent coach and a competitive squad. It has been nonsensical. We have plenty to be critical of, these two turning up in our league really just adds to what has been a thoroughly miserable season so far. As I said above there is a chance to rescue things, but as hopeful as I would like to be I can't say I am confident. You say that like it was a choice we made to NOT ensure he stayed. Firstly, IMO he'd probably been tapped up with the Olympiacos job in mind. The top club in Greece and a champions league club year after year. Secondly, to get him to stay would ( if investment was the issue ) have cost millions of pounds that the clubs doesnt have and that the owner isnt prepared to ,or simply cant, put in on top of the millions he already committed to. So how should we have ensured he stayed? Corboran dumped us, not the other way round. I actually think you have answered your own question, he chose to leave because he couldn't see a way to improve the teams' fortunes. As you say the owner wasn't prepared to put cash in, indeed he slashed the budget (if reports are to be believed). My point, which I am sure you know, was this: Given DH clearly must have had the decision to sell in his mind (happy to be corrected if that was wrong) and as such surely it would have been an easier sell to "invest" to support Carlos in the short term to have a more compelling product. For m it is yet another example of rank poor long term planning imho. He nearly got lucky in that promotion to the Premier League would have changed the dynamic. Where I have an issue is that the decisions subsequent to Carlos' departure have probably cost more than budgeted and as such I think it is reasonable to question the folly and lack of big picture thinking. To cast Carlos as the "villain" is far too lazy. I don't blame him for making a choice. Now if DH has a need to move on, personally, financially or from a health aspect then I would have every empathy with that but I would pose one question: As as fan who DH previously trusted to accept the truth why did everything come so much more opaque since January 2019? What changed? I do respect your stance, I just don't think it reflects on how many fans are feeling confused and let down about how the club has been run. One thing is for sure all our debating on here isn't going to change anything.
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Post by dugnet on Jan 4, 2023 16:06:57 GMT 1
I really do not think Wagner was even spoken to about returning, i think it was a lot of hope and newspaer/twitter stuff but in reality he was not even on the list. I think he was the first man on the list and I think all the stuff about not wanting to move his family back to England is false, I think Wagner didn't like what he was told and didn't take the job based off that. Or we wouldn't/couldn't settle his Young Boys contract.
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Post by westislandterrier on Jan 4, 2023 16:12:16 GMT 1
Good luck David. Gutted we couldn't get him back here. Went down the cheap route which will likely end up costing us more in the long run. Norwich will be a better fit anyway, better facilities, better owners, better DOF. Possibly - maybe even so... But overall they (or any other club) will never be as beautiful - in my eyes anyway - as ma beloved Huddy Town are !!!! 👍
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Post by drumriggend on Jan 4, 2023 16:26:30 GMT 1
15th March..
Date is in the diary..
That is one game I will not be attending..
Much to painful to see king David in the away dugout..
🥲🥲
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Post by Metch on Jan 4, 2023 16:28:55 GMT 1
They only went for our Dave as Fozzies staying loyal.
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 16:30:30 GMT 1
15th March.. Date is in the diary.. That is one game I will not be attending.. Much to painful to see king David in the away dugout.. 🥲🥲 Deary me.
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Post by runner76 on Jan 4, 2023 16:43:15 GMT 1
No one flukes promotion to the PL. Its a ridiculous claim especially considering Town were top for a long period and never outside the top six in my memory. Exactly, we didn't go below 8th all season and we were out of the Top 6 for just one game. Think we were 12th after 1 game and then 1 game we were 7th after the 1-1 with Blackburn, otherwise Top 6 all season
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Post by johntheterrier on Jan 4, 2023 16:49:05 GMT 1
15th March.. Date is in the diary.. That is one game I will not be attending.. Much to painful to see king David in the away dugout.. 🥲🥲 True Drum. It will be more painful than my missus leaving and coming back with her new bloke. Much more painful, come to think of it. Perhaps I've not picked the best comparison, but you get my drift eh? 😜
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2023 16:49:11 GMT 1
You say that like it was a choice we made to NOT ensure he stayed. Firstly, IMO he'd probably been tapped up with the Olympiacos job in mind. The top club in Greece and a champions league club year after year. Secondly, to get him to stay would ( if investment was the issue ) have cost millions of pounds that the clubs doesnt have and that the owner isnt prepared to ,or simply cant, put in on top of the millions he already committed to. So how should we have ensured he stayed? Corboran dumped us, not the other way round. I actually think you have answered your own question, he chose to leave because he couldn't see a way to improve the teams' fortunes. As you say the owner wasn't prepared to put cash in, indeed he slashed the budget (if reports are to be believed). My point, which I am sure you know, was this: Given DH clearly must have had the decision to sell in his mind (happy to be corrected if that was wrong) and as such surely it would have been an easier sell to "invest" to support Carlos in the short term to have a more compelling product. For m it is yet another example of rank poor long term planning imho. He nearly got lucky in that promotion to the Premier League would have changed the dynamic. Where I have an issue is that the decisions subsequent to Carlos' departure have probably cost more than budgeted and as such I think it is reasonable to question the folly and lack of big picture thinking. To cast Carlos as the "villain" is far too lazy. I don't blame him for making a choice. Now if DH has a need to move on, personally, financially or from a health aspect then I would have every empathy with that but I would pose one question: As as fan who DH previously trusted to accept the truth why did everything come so much more opaque since January 2019? What changed? I do respect your stance, I just don't think it reflects on how many fans are feeling confused and let down about how the club has been run. One thing is for sure all our debating on here isn't going to change anything. But all your saying is many more millions should have been invested to stop corboran dumping us. The only place that could come from is Hoyle and he couldn't or wasnt prepared to do that more then the £5m he'd already committed to put in. Why is that so hard to accept? Its very easy to expect someone else to put in millions more of their money.. into something they dont even own...just to increase the chance of success, not in any way guarantee it... and then claim a breakdown of 'trust' or bad long term planning if he doesnt or cant do it. What if he'd have put another £10m in and the signings had been shite ( we have a track record in that) or they'd got injured? Or if Corboran had walked anyway when the olympiacos job was offered to him? ( which I think he would ) Christ, no one should know more than us that spending lots of money guarantees absolutely nothing. He'd have blown a huge chunk of his wealth and I doubt the revitalised 'trust' he'd have from the fans would be much of a consolation .. most would just be slagging him off for not putting even more in or making bad player choices! But its so easy to take that gamble with someone elses money isnt it. This is what I keep saying to you and you keep trying to deny.. it all boils down to people feeling entitled to more and more of someone elses money.... "it makes sense.. with no jeopardy to me at all.. for him to splash out a huge amount of his wealth on us because it might bring success"
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,466
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Post by Dan on Jan 4, 2023 16:57:08 GMT 1
I actually think you have answered your own question, he chose to leave because he couldn't see a way to improve the teams' fortunes. As you say the owner wasn't prepared to put cash in, indeed he slashed the budget (if reports are to be believed). My point, which I am sure you know, was this: Given DH clearly must have had the decision to sell in his mind (happy to be corrected if that was wrong) and as such surely it would have been an easier sell to "invest" to support Carlos in the short term to have a more compelling product. For m it is yet another example of rank poor long term planning imho. He nearly got lucky in that promotion to the Premier League would have changed the dynamic. Where I have an issue is that the decisions subsequent to Carlos' departure have probably cost more than budgeted and as such I think it is reasonable to question the folly and lack of big picture thinking. To cast Carlos as the "villain" is far too lazy. I don't blame him for making a choice. Now if DH has a need to move on, personally, financially or from a health aspect then I would have every empathy with that but I would pose one question: As as fan who DH previously trusted to accept the truth why did everything come so much more opaque since January 2019? What changed? I do respect your stance, I just don't think it reflects on how many fans are feeling confused and let down about how the club has been run. One thing is for sure all our debating on here isn't going to change anything. But all your saying is many more millions should have been invested to stop corboran dumping us. The only place that could come from is Hoyle and he couldn't or wasnt prepared to do that more then the £5m he'd already committed to put in. Why is that so hard to accept? Its very easy to expect someone else to put in millions more of their money.. into something they dont even own...just to increase the chance of success, not in any way guarantee it... and then claim a breakdown of 'trust' or bad long term planning if he doesnt or cant do it. What if he'd have put another £10m in and the signings had been shite ( we have a track record in that) or they'd got injured? Or if Corboran had walked anyway when the olympiacos job was offered to him? ( which I think he would ) Christ, no one should know more than us that spending lots of money guarantees absolutely nothing. He'd have blown a huge chunk of his wealth and I doubt the revitalised 'trust' he'd have from the fans would be much of a consolation .. most would just be slagging him off for not putting even more in or making bad player choices! But its so easy to take that gamble with someone elses money isnt it. This is what I keep saying to you and you keep trying to deny.. it all boils down to people feeling entitled to more and more of someone elses money.... "it makes sense.. with no jeopardy to me at all.. for him to splash out a huge amount of his wealth on us because it might bring success" Didn't he just want Dean to spend 20% of the LOB/Toffs money on a striker who is currently the 4th highest scorer in the Championship?
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Post by hthp on Jan 4, 2023 17:15:55 GMT 1
Exactly, we didn't go below 8th all season and we were out of the Top 6 for just one game. Think we were 12th after 1 game and then 1 game we were 7th after the 1-1 with Blackburn, otherwise Top 6 all season Nope. It was exactly as I said in the post you quoted
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