|
Post by andydyson10 on Sept 29, 2008 18:59:59 GMT 1
WOW. pay the money and keep this history in HUDDERSFIELD i would hate to see my grandfathers heroes priceless items go to anybody who did not want to share them with the people of HUDDERSFIELD 50K is nothing.
|
|
|
Post by martin on Sept 29, 2008 21:27:43 GMT 1
Bro, sorry for the lack of clarity 2 posts back.
If our £50,000 can still attract a matching (or greater contribution) from a charity (or landfill tax) if we give the money to the Storthes Hall project, then that is what I believe we should continue to support.
Regarding the possibility of Dean / Ken buying the memorabilia for private gain, Mids could establish if they would be prepared to buy then hold them in a charitable trust.
Thanks for your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by ksne on Sept 29, 2008 21:36:25 GMT 1
I have grave reservations about using the funds for the proposed memborilia.
It would only appeal to a limited amount of Town fans.IMO.
These items should be purchased by the club.IMO
So I`d rather not thankyou.
|
|
|
Post by specialun on Sept 29, 2008 22:41:35 GMT 1
Intertesting idea and split opinion.
I'd support it, but given there is a split, perhaps suggesting we split the cost with the club, keeping the rest secure for when its needed.
Its ok to say everything's ok no but gordon brown didn't learn to save when things were going well so he can't borrow now he's realsied he messed up big time!
The point being there are possibly other uses which have merit and may needed in time of need.
|
|
|
Post by mids on Sept 30, 2008 7:01:21 GMT 1
I have grave reservations about using the funds for the proposed memborilia. It would only appeal to a limited amount of Town fans.IMO. Fair enough, but.... What reservations, and what makes them grave? Surely, these items should appeal to anyone who is a Town fan?
|
|
|
Post by mids on Sept 30, 2008 7:05:06 GMT 1
If our £50,000 can still attract a matching (or greater contribution) from a charity (or landfill tax) if we give the money to the Storthes Hall project, then that is what I believe we should continue to support. My understanding is that the 10x Landfill Tax is/was limited to £10k, or else I would have thought that the Supporters Trust would have given the money readily at the time. Bob Pepper should be able to clarify that situation, and he's attending the Development Association meeting tomorrow where the whole Storthes Hall project is due to be discussed.
|
|
|
Post by mids on Sept 30, 2008 7:08:46 GMT 1
Mids, what are the views of Dean Hoyle on (a) supporters contributions towards Storthes Hall, and (b) the memorabilia? I'm not 100% certain on his thoughts regarding Storthes Hall but I hope to find out in the very near future as I've a meeting at the stadium tomorrow afternoon. I know he realises the historical significance of these items and I'm sure he'd be keen for them to remain within the area, as a collection.
|
|
|
Post by bro600 on Sept 30, 2008 7:16:01 GMT 1
Bro, sorry for the lack of clarity 2 posts back. If our £50,000 can still attract a matching (or greater contribution) from a charity (or landfill tax) if we give the money to the Storthes Hall project, then that is what I believe we should continue to support. Regarding the possibility of Dean / Ken buying the memorabilia for private gain, Mids could establish if they would be prepared to buy then hold them in a charitable trust. Thanks for your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by bro600 on Sept 30, 2008 7:37:03 GMT 1
Bro, sorry for the lack of clarity 2 posts back. If our £50,000 can still attract a matching (or greater contribution) from a charity (or landfill tax) if we give the money to the Storthes Hall project, then that is what I believe we should continue to support. Regarding the possibility of Dean / Ken buying the memorabilia for private gain, Mids could establish if they would be prepared to buy then hold them in a charitable trust. Thanks for your thoughts. The Storthes Hall project would have been a good avenue for the money but it is now stated that it's limited to £10,000 match funded to £50,000 by the landfill tax grant which HTSA as agreed to adhere to. £50,000 to £500,000 was very appealling and would probably have been what the money was used for. Personally i'm not happy with the Storthes Hall scenario anyway as the plans, owners, what it means to HTFC etc etc etc questions asked have never been answered. ............ As for Ken//Dean buying the memorabilia for private gain? That's not what i mean't.. In the present climate of clubs going into administration and chairmen jumping in and out of football clubs any asset would be at risk. The list of unscrupulous chairmen is getting longer every day and you only have to ask Luton, Rotherham and Bournemouth supporters if they give a toss when they do bugger off.
|
|
|
Post by gruberhtafc on Sept 30, 2008 7:45:26 GMT 1
My question is how often do people go to huddersfield current museum?
I know i have not been to that place on manchester road (forgot the name) in many years? Is it worthwhile investing in some thing I and many other town fans will see once and probably never again.
If the fans bar which was meant to be buit when they re-designed the front of the stadium with a hall of fame (whatever happend to that) was there I would say it is a worth while to display then there.
I am of the oppinion this should be bought by the club and they should be falling over backwards to get hold of it.
Firstly if this was bought where would it be held till it is displayed? If its displayed in the stadium where abouts? I have to say I would not like it to go on display just to the "prawn sandwhich brigrade" (as keane would say), and to stadium tours.
|
|
|
Post by nseventee on Sept 30, 2008 8:31:10 GMT 1
Bob Pepper should be able to clarify that situation, and he's attending the Development Association meeting tomorrow where the whole Storthes Hall project is due to be discussed. And hopefully a decision has been taken to make the minutes public too...?
|
|
|
Post by nseventee on Sept 30, 2008 8:37:42 GMT 1
Personally i'm not happy with the Storthes Hall scenario anyway as the plans, owners, what it means to HTFC etc etc etc questions asked have never been answered. Hurray! The question is, have the questions been asked? I know its been discussed at great length on the Town yahoogroup mailing list on multiple occasions, and people who attend the DA meetings are aware of this - but the DA seems to set its own agenda without really taking on board supporter concerns, and without public reporting, seems to be a bit of a lame duck in terms of creating an effective dialogue between club and fans. Of course, a cynic might suggest it allows the club to tick a few boxes about 'regular meetings with supporters' etc.
|
|
|
Post by mids on Sept 30, 2008 9:12:28 GMT 1
Bob Pepper should be able to clarify that situation, and he's attending the Development Association meeting tomorrow where the whole Storthes Hall project is due to be discussed. And hopefully a decision has been taken to make the minutes public too...? Let's hope so
|
|
|
Post by mids on Oct 1, 2008 7:11:40 GMT 1
We're meeting the current owner of the collection today to view some items and get a comprehensive list of what is available, so any last minute thoughts would be welcome.
It's the money that all Town fans gave so each person's opinion is equally valid.
|
|
|
Post by mids on Oct 1, 2008 23:05:42 GMT 1
It was an excellent collection of footballing memorabilia, and one that I and all those in attendance feel should be kept in the hands of Huddersfield Town and/or its fans if at all possible. The vendors are certainly keen that is the case. The collection alone includes 13 medals including one for each of the championships and the fa cup winner, and runner up, medals.....england shirts, contracts, letters, pictures, and lots of other interesting items including scrapbooks. There is also a grandfather clock presented to him by the Heavy Woollen Supporters Club in the 30's in recognition of him becoming the clubs record appearance holder. Some of the items are being brought to the Patrons tomorrow evening if anyone wants a look. Do we know any cash-rich Town fans who might have some cash lying about to help secure the history of Huddersfield Town? Patrick Stewart? Reece Dinsdale? Graham Leslie? Paul Haigh? Zoe Lucker? Ken Davy ? Do we know anyone who can build exhibiting cabinets? Who can give us a price on insurance? There's lots to consider and unfortunately time is of the essence....a decision needs to be made asap. Huddersfield Town is an historic club and when you see some of the things that are going to be sold it would be a shame if the collection got split up, and was lost to the club and its fans.
|
|
LePoivre
Tom Cowan Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 789
|
Post by LePoivre on Oct 1, 2008 23:35:09 GMT 1
If our £50,000 can still attract a matching (or greater contribution) from a charity (or landfill tax) if we give the money to the Storthes Hall project, then that is what I believe we should continue to support. My understanding is that the 10x Landfill Tax is/was limited to £10k, or else I would have thought that the Supporters Trust would have given the money readily at the time. Bob Pepper should be able to clarify that situation, and he's attending the Development Association meeting tomorrow where the whole Storthes Hall project is due to be discussed. I came away from that meeting without a precise figure being confirmed but with a clear impression that £100K was the maximum available and could be less. This requires £10K or less of the Trust Reserve (i.e., 1/10 of the Landfill Tax revenue).
|
|
|
Post by nseventee on Oct 1, 2008 23:51:23 GMT 1
And do HTSA get a position of influence within (deep breath) "The Sporting Pride of Huddersfield Development Company"*, or is it intended as an unconditional gift?
*A company whose directors may include current executive directors of Huddersfield Town, but who may or not be directors of Huddersfield Town in 9 months, or 9 years, or 90 years.
|
|
|
Post by nseventee on Oct 2, 2008 0:01:26 GMT 1
The collection alone includes 13 medals including one for each of the championships and the fa cup winner, and runner up, medals..... Which player is this stuff from as a matter of interest? Tom Wilson?
|
|
|
Post by terrier19 on Oct 2, 2008 1:44:16 GMT 1
i'm sure i've read somewhere one of bits is to do with record appearances,
Billy Smith?
|
|
|
Post by BoothysGusset on Oct 2, 2008 10:13:06 GMT 1
Personally, as a member of the ST from the start, I feel that the use of the money for purchasing memorabilia is a little feckless to say the least. It would be a nice idea if everything in the garden was rosy but we all know it isn’t. The £55,000 is a relatively small amount, however set against the Storthes Hall project & Land Fill Grant, it is a bargaining tool. Uncle Ken has ‘stolen’ the clubs long term assets (the 40% KSDL share) ,continues to fleece the club from its major revenue stream (“set in stone” stadium rent formulae) and I believe has left HTAFC paying the mortgage loan on the North Stand complex. These are long standing issues. Correct me if I am wrong but so far Dean Hoyle has not stated publicly that one of his main aims is to have the 40% KSDL share back in the club, it may that he is keeping quiet until he officially takes over – who knows? DH is a business man with HTAFC in his blood and as such I believe he will run the club on a sound footing and respect the supporter’s ambition not run as a ‘cash cow’ for the Giants as it has been. Getting back to the point, I do not believe that any independent supporter’s group should throw away any kind of leverage, however small, that they have. Better to have half a tooth than no teeth at all.
|
|
|
Post by mids on Oct 2, 2008 10:29:39 GMT 1
Everything in the garden is rosier but you're right that we shouldn't assume that everything is perfect.
I'm fairly confident that Dean knows the importance of getting the shares back, and that will be one thing he addresses from May 2009 when the 'elect' bit drops from his job title.
The collection is, I believe, a big part of HTFC's history and should be kept within the 'family' if at all possible. The decision process isn't ideal in that due to time constraints it all seems a tad hurried, but that doesn't divert from the fact that someone Town related ought to be securing the collection.
There is some money currently promised to the Storthes Hall project but seemingly as time progresses the value of the landfill tax diminishes....it was originally going to secure £500k of funding....now it may be less than £100k....a significant drop in anyone's book and one that needs reassessing in my opinion.
HTSA does have some 'leverage' now with it's £50k bank balance....the question is though would that 'leverage' lessen if we spent that money elsewhere? I don't believe it would.
|
|
|
Post by townatheart on Oct 2, 2008 11:01:44 GMT 1
Personally, as a member of the ST from the start, I feel that the use of the money for purchasing memorabilia is a little feckless to say the least. It would be a nice idea if everything in the garden was rosy but we all know it isn’t. The £55,000 is a relatively small amount, however set against the Storthes Hall project & Land Fill Grant, it is a bargaining tool. Uncle Ken has ‘stolen’ the clubs long term assets (the 40% KSDL share) ,continues to fleece the club from its major revenue stream (“set in stone” stadium rent formulae) and I believe has left HTAFC paying the mortgage loan on the North Stand complex. These are long standing issues. Correct me if I am wrong but so far Dean Hoyle has not stated publicly that one of his main aims is to have the 40% KSDL share back in the club, it may that he is keeping quiet until he officially takes over – who knows? DH is a business man with HTAFC in his blood and as such I believe he will run the club on a sound footing and respect the supporter’s ambition not run as a ‘cash cow’ for the Giants as it has been. Getting back to the point, I do not believe that any independent supporter’s group should throw away any kind of leverage, however small, that they have. Better to have half a tooth than no teeth at all. Boothy - dont know if this will reassure you or not, but further up in the thread Mids has noted that this collection, for all its sentimental value to us as Town fans, does in fact carry with it a legitimate monetary investment value. So, in fact, should we as the Supporters acquire the collection (and it would be HTSA and NOT the Club who owns the collection) than at any point in the future whereby cash was needed to support HTAFC than the collection could be sold on and the cash clout recaptured. Further, while I have not met Dean, so can not say this hand on heart, my read of the man is that this step if taken by HTSA would help cement the positive link that he is wanting to build with the supporters. So in that sense it would be buying us goodwill with Dean. Further, those involved with the discussions to date, have been firm in communicating their expectation that the Club wiil participate in the project as well, such as funding display costs etc. It is obvious that there will be different opinions on this, but truly, the collection is something unique, and a part of the history of Huddersfield Town that is simply a one off. Would be a true shame to have it split up and sold off to investors with no love for our HTAFC.
|
|
|
Post by mids on Oct 2, 2008 11:23:48 GMT 1
Boothy - dont know if this will reassure you or not, but further up in the thread Mids has noted that this collection, for all its sentimental value to us as Town fans, does in fact carry with it a legitimate monetary investment value. So, in fact, should we as the Supporters acquire the collection (and it would be HTSA and NOT the Club who owns the collection) than at any point in the future whereby cash was needed to support HTAFC than the collection could be sold on and the cash clout recaptured. Further, while I have not met Dean, so can not say this hand on heart, my read of the man is that this step if taken by HTSA would help cement the positive link that he is wanting to build with the supporters. So in that sense it would be buying us goodwill with Dean. Further, those involved with the discussions to date, have been firm in communicating their expectation that the Club wiil participate in the project as well, such as funding display costs etc. It is obvious that there will be different opinions on this, but truly, the collection is something unique, and a part of the history of Huddersfield Town that is simply a one off. Would be a true shame to have it split up and sold off to investors with no love for our HTAFC. Perfectly put....that sums up the whole scenario very succinctly
|
|
|
Post by Dell12 on Oct 2, 2008 11:57:26 GMT 1
I would agree about the monetary value, and I would say it will only rise over time BUT there is surely only a limited number of people who would be willing to buy such a thing. I don't know how many rich Town fans there are?
In theory i'm in favour of purchacing the memrobelia, however I really don't agree with it being displayed in a museam, where most fans would just visit it once and that would be the end of it. I'd rather rather it being encorporated in to a supporters bar, however if the new stadium development goes ahead I can see that Davy and co will oppose such a bar as it will take buisness away from any potential new bars which could set up.
|
|
|
Post by BoothysGusset on Oct 2, 2008 11:58:01 GMT 1
I do realise that the collection will be unique and what it means. I had the privilege, as a kid, of knowing Alf Young (HTAFC & England Centre Half) and a few years after his death being invited by his widow to look through his collection. It was fantastic, but this one seems to be better however I personally cannot get my head round the idea of using the money for this purpose when there are still very big issues that are unresolved sitting at the foundations of the club.
|
|
|
Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Oct 2, 2008 12:03:35 GMT 1
Boothy - dont know if this will reassure you or not, but further up in the thread Mids has noted that this collection, for all its sentimental value to us as Town fans, does in fact carry with it a legitimate monetary investment value. So, in fact, should we as the Supporters acquire the collection (and it would be HTSA and NOT the Club who owns the collection) than at any point in the future whereby cash was needed to support HTAFC than the collection could be sold on and the cash clout recaptured. Further, while I have not met Dean, so can not say this hand on heart, my read of the man is that this step if taken by HTSA would help cement the positive link that he is wanting to build with the supporters. So in that sense it would be buying us goodwill with Dean. Further, those involved with the discussions to date, have been firm in communicating their expectation that the Club wiil participate in the project as well, such as funding display costs etc. It is obvious that there will be different opinions on this, but truly, the collection is something unique, and a part of the history of Huddersfield Town that is simply a one off. Would be a true shame to have it split up and sold off to investors with no love for our HTAFC. Perfectly put....that sums up the whole scenario very succinctly I've been too busy to get more involved in this discussion about the memorabilia up till now, but as someone who contributed a tidy little sum to the original HTST, I think what townatheart said above makes very good sense to me and persuades me that I would be in favour of the HTSA purchasing these memorabilia.
|
|
|
Post by benhomly on Oct 2, 2008 13:16:35 GMT 1
The cost paid would be an investment though....presuming they were bought at a realistic current valuation. Hopefully the money (if needed) could be recouped at a later point. The museum is a separate entity.....and one that would, ideally, be a club initiative where various parties could ahve their own stuff displayed. Exactly - that stuff will only increase in value so should be seen as an investment. Imagine what it will be worth in another 100 years time when we've won nothing else of note in that period
|
|
|
Post by town4life on Oct 2, 2008 14:14:16 GMT 1
I’m really against the money being used for this purpose. I agree this looks to be an amazing collection, and I’d love for it to be owned by fans/the club and displayed somewhere rather than potentially split up. But the money was raised when Town were in deep financial trouble with the intention of saving/helping the club, and I don’t see how HTSA owning this collection would benefit the club at all, especially in comparison to it being invested in improved training facilities or similar. I don’t get the investment argument either, surely its only being bought as an investment if the intention is to sell it on in x number of years? And if it was ever to be sold on (with the club in a financial mess again or not) then you’re in the same boat of having the items possibly being in the hands of non-Town fans and split up, which was the purpose for buying them in the first place. Would still like some mega-rich Town fan to buy them, build a supporters bar near the ground and have them displayed there though, just not with this HTSA money which was raised for another purpose
|
|
|
Post by nseventee on Oct 2, 2008 16:09:53 GMT 1
But the money was raised when Town were in deep financial trouble with the intention of saving/helping the club, and I don’t see how HTSA owning this collection would benefit the club at all, especially in comparison to it being invested in improved training facilities or similar. and So in that case them I assume you're completely against putting the money towards the Storthes Hall development? As far as I'm aware (and the questions HAVE been put to people who attend the DA/Town Talk meetings, so I assume this will be confirmed one way or the other at some stage) - the University own the land at Storthes Hall, with KSDL owning the lease. A not for profit company was set up to manage the development, some of whose executive members are also (AT THE MOMENT) associated with Huddersfield Town FC, but as far as I'm aware, there is no legal association with the not for profit company and Huddersfield Town, and as far as I'm aware, Huddersfield Town would have to pay some kind of service charge to use the redeveloped Storthes Hall facility. Since Huddersfield Town do not have legal association with the not for profit company, nor have a legal association with KSDL, and presumably don't have one with the University - then 'gifting' the £50k (or £10k) or whatever to the Storthes Hall project (and I use the word 'gifting' because what I've seen described so far, it effectively IS a gift) wouldn't be an 'investment' either??? Things have changed in material terms since the idea of handing the money over to this project first arose. Firstly there's the size of the matched funding that could be leveraged, which appears to change on a meeting by meeting basis without anyone really knowing the answer, but more importantly... at the time the money was first 'promised' (for want of a better word), Huddersfield Town FC had a 40% interest in KSDL, and, as far as I recall, it was assumed that KSDL would be responsible for the development & management of the site (although I can understand why a seperate entity was ultimately set up, no point risking the existing KSDL business on a new development, especially in this day and age) - so gifting the cash to it would effectively have been an investment in KSDL. This is such a change that I think its downright crazy that HTSA are even considering handing the money over without some clear, written answers to lots of questions that I can't think of. So if the Storthes Hall development DOESN'T happen - what happens then? Who cares - not me, I'm a Town fan, I'm not a KSDL fan or a Hudds University fan - I would have thought given the scraping around for money that appears to be happening with this development, that it would be more appropriate, when Dean is the chairman and majority owner of Huddersfield Town, that he invested his/the clubs money, in conjunction with the HTSA money, in a facility owned by the club - either ownership or long term leasehold. No idea where that might be or what it might cost, but I'm sure Kirklees Council would be willing to talk about a partnership for further development of the Leeds Road and Sports Barn facility?? The danger of course, is that I recall someone posting ages ago either here or on the yahoogroup that Town had had their academy status threatened because of poor facilities and had been given a deadline for upgrading or commencing works on upgrading them?? In my head I thought that deadline was this August just gone, but I guess it can't be.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2008 17:19:30 GMT 1
I've followed this discussion with interest.
I wouldn't like to be the one making the decisions, as opinion seems split down the middle.
|
|