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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2008 0:34:22 GMT 1
I agree with you, I don't think he's our best midfielder either. I rate Craney more, would probably put him on a par with Collins they offer different things, but I'd at least like to have someone like him on the bench if we need a goal. A couple of times recently Craney has been taken off (deservedly so), but straight away our goal threat has deminished. Would be good to be able to bring Flynn on in that situation, certainly as his goals tend to come out of nothing, which is good if the teams not playing well. I just seems petty to me, I can't believe that Murphy has done this for purely footballing reasons. Thought it would be interesting to put the link to Flynn's post Stan comments on here again, for me he doesn't say too much wrong. www.htafc.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10312~1446639,00.html
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Post by specialun on Nov 28, 2008 0:41:02 GMT 1
The other point I'll make is that stan used up the budget.
Nw manager will want one or two additions - beckett leaving is sensible, and another creates a bit of headroom in the wage budget - losing a cm where we have more than enough helps even more (whether you think flynn should have gone ir not). End of the day, we're 14th for a reason.
As with paulmat, its pretty clear its not for footballing reasons - all we know is flynn' comments, stan leaves and flynn ''gets injured'' and at the 1st opportunity he's off (jumped/pushed??).
Rumours of dressing room unrest have been enhanced in recent weeks - even by comments from stan signings such as craney, kamara's blog etc
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2008 0:46:13 GMT 1
Can't argue with you there, getting rid of Beckett was right, and sending out the two youngsters. And you're right we had central midfielders to spare, it just left a bit of a bad taste that it was Flynn who went, it feels like the sort of petty thing Stan would have done.
We just need a fresh start, it can't come soon enough. Somebody who will pick players on merit, not because of how they came to the club.
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Post by specialun on Nov 28, 2008 0:56:30 GMT 1
Agree with that - but then look at goodwin over worthy on tuesday.
I'd like to think that the same was with flynn but if he was the leader of the dressing room divide, then the bigger picture has to take priority.
However, I'm purely speculating on that.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 2:07:25 GMT 1
Christ, anybody would think we'd just let Steven Gerrard leave! Everyones been saying for ages we were overloaded with central midfielders. Well we've let the one least likely to get in the team go on a months loan somewhere he'll get some games in, and all of a sudden it's slitting wrists time on here! What a joke. Theres even somebody slating Murphy for giving Clarke a new deal last time he was in temporary charge!! That'll be Clarke who's CLEARLY our best defender at the club FFS! Yeah, what a shame he wasn't allowed to leave! Some of you need to breathe deeply and get a grip I think cos theres so much horse manure been written in this thread its untrue. ;D Fact is if Flynn had gone just after the Brighton game there wouldn't be any moaning or if we'd not gifted Orient a goal and then taken just 1 of the countless chances we had in that game then there wouldn't be any of this moaning either . but cos we somehow contrived to lose that game the clubs a farce and a joke, Hoyle must be mad, and other bollocks etc etc and Murphy is demonised for letting a pretty average squad player go out on loan for a month? Talk about over-reaction boys!
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Post by Carlito Brigante on Nov 28, 2008 2:48:04 GMT 1
I heard Flynn made one of the juniors cry because he had the wrong trainers on or summat. So he had to go Thems the rules around here apparently
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 3:59:22 GMT 1
Christ, anybody would think we'd just let Steven Gerrard leave! Everyones been saying for ages we were overloaded with central midfielders. Well we've let the one least likely to get in the team go on a months loan somewhere he'll get some games in, and all of a sudden it's slitting wrists time on here! What a joke. Theres even somebody slating Murphy for giving Clarke a new deal last time he was in temporary charge!! That'll be Clarke who's CLEARLY our best defender at the club FFS! Yeah, what a shame he wasn't allowed to leave! Some of you need to breathe deeply and get a grip I think cos theres so much horse manure been written in this thread its untrue. ;D Fact is if Flynn had gone just after the Brighton game there wouldn't be any moaning or if we'd not gifted Orient a goal and then taken just 1 of the countless chances we had in that game then there wouldn't be any of this moaning either . but cos we somehow contrived to lose that game the clubs a farce and a joke, Hoyle must be mad, and other bollocks etc etc and Murphy is demonised for letting a pretty average squad player go out on loan for a month? Talk about over-reaction boys! I wouldn't say Murphy is demonised for letting a 'pretty average' squad player leave, i'd say people are angry he hasn't sent out the far less effective Collins, or the phantom fouler Worthy. People describe Worthy as box to box, and I agree, on the edge of our box he mistimes tackles, and on the edge of the opposition box he mistimes shots, then does a lot of headless running in the space inbetween. The thing that go to me was that some of Murphy's pre-game comments before Orient suggested he'd been apologising to Worthy, and reassuring him, after starting Goodwin ahead of him. A manager should not have to do that, these aren't kids, however Gerry may view them. Goodwin ahead of Worthy was the right decision, and for me Murphy bottled it by swapping Worthy for Craney mid-game. For all the criticism of Stan, the top performing players in the previous games have all been his signings, not Gerry's academy lads who he is slowly but surely slipping back in. Roberts, Parker, Goodwin have been the star men (not forgetting Clarkey), whereas Skarz and Collins seem to be living off their Leeds goals, and not even their Leeds performance. I've said all along, in the same way as Brightside and DX that Stan had exactly the right idea when he came into this club. Perhaps he didn't execute that idea perfectly, far from it, but it was what the club needed. In my opinion Hoyle has backed the wrong horse here, by a long way.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Nov 28, 2008 9:41:41 GMT 1
Flynn is a decent player but not end of world, its definately personal as flynn only plays for stan and dont think Gerry appreciated how Flynn was stans little pet.
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 28, 2008 10:06:39 GMT 1
For all the criticism of Stan, the top performing players in the previous games have all been his signings, not Gerry's academy lads who he is slowly but surely slipping back in. Roberts, Parker, Goodwin have been the star men (not forgetting Clarkey), whereas Skarz and Collins seem to be living off their Leeds goals, and not even their Leeds performance. You point out exactly why Stan was bad for the club; of the four players you identify as being the star men recently, three have left out of the team by Stan this season and Roberts wasn’t playing particularly well before Stan left. GM has got performances out of players that Stan couldn’t. You accuse Skarz and Collins of living of their goals when if you take his goals out of the equation Flynn the wonder boy is decidedly less than average.
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Post by townatheart on Nov 28, 2008 10:10:26 GMT 1
Can't argue with you there, getting rid of Beckett was right, and sending out the two youngsters. And you're right we had central midfielders to spare, it just left a bit of a bad taste that it was Flynn who went, it feels like the sort of petty thing Stan would have done. We just need a fresh start, it can't come soon enough. Somebody who will pick players on merit, not because of how they came to the club. think paul has come close to the target here...... Stan and Gerry both two old stubborn do it my way type of guys. imo would give gerry the edge in man mangement skills, and perhaps a slight edge in tactics, but my opinion of Gerry has been lowered slightly (not totally to be fair - and still glad that Stan is gone) by some of his decisions. what it shows is the obvious, he is human, and that he is not the long term solution to the needs of HTAFC. so, we will await Dean's decision, and hope that it is the clean frest start that is needed. and hopefully sooner rather than later, freddi is doing me head in
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 10:22:51 GMT 1
yeah yeah, all our academy lads are crap, Flynn is Ronaldinho...etc etc. zzzzzz
We were doing so great with Flynn in the side aswell. He had so many great games- there was Sheffield Utd and...and.. well there was Sheffield Utd anyway, so he was a vital part of all our early season success. Not sure we'll cope without him.
Its a disgrace, we're a joke, etc. lol
The only thing I'm disappointed about is that we haven't got another striker in for the december games. Something we clearly need- the legacy of Ternents hopeless squad building in the summer.
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Post by boothylegend on Nov 28, 2008 10:31:37 GMT 1
Jesus, the glass half empty brigade are in full voice today.
Firstly, why not wait until the 28/12 to see if Flynn does come back; then we can regard it as a good move by Gerry; building up his fitness in the long term without having a weak link in the side in the short term.
Secondly, if he does leave permanently the majority of people on here were making snide remarks about how many midfielders we had in relation to other squad members. If Gerry has received a good offer to get someone off the books then it might be worth taking it if it frees up wages for a striker, another winger etc.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 10:32:16 GMT 1
Personally he'd be on my chop list (which numbers 9 including the two loanees who left) - so I'm not too fussed to see him leave to be honest
He's not that good IMO, people talk about what he did at Wigan, he made about 5 starts in three years, that's woeful!
He was then a regular for a Gillingham team who struggled to stay in League One and was a reserve at Blackpool
That's pretty much his football cv - we can do better!
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 10:53:43 GMT 1
Reading more of the thread and had to add what an over reaction to a modest player leaving on loan ... to a League Two side (which speaks volumes if he's that good!)
For all his starts and five goals he’s mostly looked woeful, wandering aimlessly on the left or right wing or where ever ST shoehorned him into the team that week (but only GM plays favourites right?). How anyone can say he’s a contender for POTS is amazing to me, he’s been poor in about 16 of 18 games, awful return for (I assume) big wages, I seem to remember him getting on the boo boys “radar” at one point (at odds with a POTS surely!)
As for dismissing Collins goals and saying they were tap ins – I would bet any money that neither Flynn or Craney would have scored the winner at L**ds, very simply neither would have had the engine to support the attack in the 93rd min – Craney usually looks knackered after 60 minutes!
The squad is too big and players have to go on loan, getting Tom Clarke, Denton and Eastwood football WILL help there development
Flynn is better off out of it if his face doesn’t fit. Fact is we’ve looked better recently without in the side anyway!
As for backing the wrong horse – how anyone can say they’d rather still have Ternent and then others say we’ll stay in League One ad infinitum, oh dear! The only place Ternent was taking us was League Two IMO playing hoofball
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 14:18:31 GMT 1
Spot on Hudds. He chipped in with the occassional goal as he should do when playing as an attacking player in a 5 man midfield. No more than either Craney or roberts though and Collins has a better goals to games ratio in that role too. Take away the goals and he was a very average player. Not as good as Craney,Roberts,Collins or Holdsworth as an attacking midfielder. Not as good as Worthington, Goodwin, Berrett as a defensive one. Considering some think hes the gerrard of our division, I don't recall ANYONE saying we've missed him since he hasn't been in the team.
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 14:20:46 GMT 1
Spot on Hudds. He chipped in with the occassional goal as he should do when playing as an attacking player in a 5 man midfield. No more than either Craney or roberts though and Collins has a better goals to games ratio in that role too. Take away the goals and he was a very average player. Not as good as Craney,Roberts,Collins or Holdsworth as an attacking midfielder. Not as good as Worthington, Goodwin, Berrett as a defensive one. Considering some think hes the gerrard of our division, I don't recall ANYONE saying we've missed him since he hasn't been in the team. To be fair, I and a few others questionned his absence at Brighton and said we'd have him back in the team instead of Collins against Orient. Which we should have done. But he was injured.
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 28, 2008 14:29:07 GMT 1
To be fair, I and a few others questionned his absence at Brighton and said we'd have him back in the team instead of Collins against Orient. Which we should have done. But he was injured. I didn’t realise that “picking players on merit” meant dropping someone who’s scored three in three games for a player who hadn’t scored in four.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 14:41:14 GMT 1
and any argument the Murphy blindly favours his academy boys went out the window when he left Worthington out for Goodwin last tuesday, even though hed said ,amongst other who were there, that Worthy had had a really good game at brighton.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 28, 2008 14:48:16 GMT 1
Flynn going to darlo for match fitness purposes - Darlo knocked out of the cup same as us - they have no game this weekend either!!!!!!!!!
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 14:53:32 GMT 1
and any argument the Murphy blindly favours his academy boys went out the window when he left Worthington out for Goodwin last tuesday, even though hed said ,amongst other who were there, that Worthy had had a really good game at brighton. I don't think it goes out the window when he brings on Worthy for Craney when we're looking for a goal.
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 28, 2008 14:54:12 GMT 1
Flynn going to darlo for match fitness purposes - Darlo knocked out of the cup same as us - they have no game this weekend either!!!!!!!!! He had to go yesterday, it was the last day for loans.
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Post by Floyds on Nov 28, 2008 14:54:35 GMT 1
gerry can let them all leave and it wouldnt bother me
cant think of one player i would actually care if they left....
all average, all had enough chances, all proved they are not good enough
i would seriously get rid of the lot of them (contracts permitting) in the summer and start again
this lot of idiots have been woeful since November 2005 - three years ago - and it is time for a fresh start
we are going no where with the current team and the current squad except more years of league midtable mediocraty
who cares if flynn goes?
christ - he has scored a couple of goals but cant remember too much else.
he offers no more (and no less) than collins/craney/worthy/goodwin/berrett etc
if we can find someone to take them off us i would be making them all available in the summer...
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 15:00:26 GMT 1
and any argument the Murphy blindly favours his academy boys went out the window when he left Worthington out for Goodwin last tuesday, even though hed said ,amongst other who were there, that Worthy had had a really good game at brighton. I don't think it goes out the window when he brings on Worthy for Craney when we're looking for a goal. No, that shows hes noticed how Craney disappears from games in the last half hour. Don't know whether its a stamina thing or what, but he does.
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 15:03:11 GMT 1
I don't think it goes out the window when he brings on Worthy for Craney when we're looking for a goal. No, that shows hes noticed how Craney disappears from games in the last half hour. Don't know whether its a stamina thing or what, but he does. I'm sorry but bringing on Worthy looking for a goal is like bringing on Unsworth to inject some pace at the back.
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Post by andyeastleake on Nov 28, 2008 19:15:07 GMT 1
I don't think it goes out the window when he brings on Worthy for Craney when we're looking for a goal. No, that shows hes noticed how Craney disappears from games in the last half hour. Don't know whether its a stamina thing or what, but he does. I don't often disagree with you Slaps (especcially when it means I agree with Midge - much much earlier on this very long thread - the first to make this observation) but Worthington for Craney when we're desperate for a goal was a very strange decision IMHO. Re Flynn, I think he's a decent player (& remember he's been played out of position a lot by the Geordie Messiah (left midfield (or the closest to it!!))). I liked his attitude towards the fans and his eye for goal (god we need it) but a little worried by the "mole" stories. All in all I hope he has merely gone for <a class=l href=http://webmaxsearch.com?qq=fitness onmouseover="return (window.status='fitness');" onmouseout="window.status='';">fitness</a> reasons - he would be an asset.
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Post by shawsie on Nov 28, 2008 20:22:22 GMT 1
Christ, anybody would think we'd just let Steven Gerrard leave! Everyones been saying for ages we were overloaded with central midfielders. Well we've let the one least likely to get in the team go on a months loan somewhere he'll get some games in, and all of a sudden it's slitting wrists time on here! What a joke. Theres even somebody slating Murphy for giving Clarke a new deal last time he was in temporary charge!! That'll be Clarke who's CLEARLY our best defender at the club FFS! Yeah, what a shame he wasn't allowed to leave! Some of you need to breathe deeply and get a grip I think cos theres so much horse manure been written in this thread its untrue. ;D Fact is if Flynn had gone just after the Brighton game there wouldn't be any moaning or if we'd not gifted Orient a goal and then taken just 1 of the countless chances we had in that game then there wouldn't be any of this moaning either . but cos we somehow contrived to lose that game the clubs a farce and a joke, Hoyle must be mad, and other bollocks etc etc and Murphy is demonised for letting a pretty average squad player go out on loan for a month? Talk about over-reaction boys! I wouldn't say Murphy is demonised for letting a 'pretty average' squad player leave, i'd say people are angry he hasn't sent out the far less effective Collins, or the phantom fouler Worthy. People describe Worthy as box to box, and I agree, on the edge of our box he mistimes tackles, and on the edge of the opposition box he mistimes shots, then does a lot of headless running in the space inbetween. The thing that go to me was that some of Murphy's pre-game comments before Orient suggested he'd been apologising to Worthy, and reassuring him, after starting Goodwin ahead of him. A manager should not have to do that, these aren't kids, however Gerry may view them. Goodwin ahead of Worthy was the right decision, and for me Murphy bottled it by swapping Worthy for Craney mid-game. For all the criticism of Stan, the top performing players in the previous games have all been his signings, not Gerry's academy lads who he is slowly but surely slipping back in. Roberts, Parker, Goodwin have been the star men (not forgetting Clarkey), whereas Skarz and Collins seem to be living off their Leeds goals, and not even their Leeds performance. I've said all along, in the same way as Brightside and DX that Stan had exactly the right idea when he came into this club. Perhaps he didn't execute that idea perfectly, far from it, but it was what the club needed. In my opinion Hoyle has backed the wrong horse here, by a long way. Absolutely spot on!!
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Post by wimboterrier on Nov 28, 2008 21:05:21 GMT 1
No, that shows hes noticed how Craney disappears from games in the last half hour. Don't know whether its a stamina thing or what, but he does. I don't often disagree with you Slaps (especcially when it means I agree with Midge - much much earlier on this very long thread - the first to make this observation) but Worthington for Craney when we're desperate for a goal was a very strange decision IMHO. Re Flynn, I think he's a decent player (& remember he's been played out of position a lot by the Geordie Messiah (left midfield (or the closest to it!!))). I liked his attitude towards the fans and his eye for goal (god we need it) but a little worried by the "mole" stories. All in all I hope he has merely gone for <a class=l href=http://webmaxsearch.com?qq=fitness onmouseover="return (window.status='fitness');" onmouseout="window.status='';">fitness</a> reasons - he would be an asset. Agree with you there Andy... i thought Flynn did well considering he was played out of position for the majority of the time. The matches where he played in centre mid he looked very solid & you sensed when he was in & around the box he was very capable of scoring. Worthington is certainly not the midfielder we need to take us forward.. ok he was half decent in league 2 when you need someone to do the dirty work, but in league 1 we need someone who can put their foot on the ball & find a blue & white striped shirt!... oh & shoot somewhere near to the target! Collins is very light weight & to for people to say his passing & ability to unlock a defence is his strength... well..... I'm hoping Flynn has gone to get some match fitness & is back in our team before not too long. Oh & i once got stranded in a place called east leake on my student days near nottingham if its the same place?
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Post by nwterrier on Nov 28, 2008 21:08:30 GMT 1
Right...before I get lambasted by the pedants for being technically wrong I would like to say that according to the official website Flynn has gone to Darlo because he has just recovered from an injury. Whether or not that injury is true, the fact is that if he has been injured, surely it is right for him to gain match fitness at another club where the competitiveness is greater than that of the reserves. If we are to disbelieve that fact then why believe a thing that comes out of the club? We obviously need to trim the wages at the club as with any business. Just because we have a rich(ish) benefactor does not mean that we should be frivolous and keep hold of assets that could be used more efficiently elsewhere to the ultimate benefit of the club. Yes Flynn has scored a few goals (or 2) and he does have a better shot at goal than Worthy (ZZ) and probably a better header than 50 pence Clarke, but while ever he is not fully match fit surely it is better for him to be playing competitive league 2 football than in the reserves.
Without the full official story none of us can offer a valid opinion but while others persist in doing so it is up to the rest of us to keep the boat steady. Everything was rosy before Tuesday and if we'd have had a striker with a massive head we might have won but we didn't despite playing some good passing football (and don' forget we were missing Parker). I believe that we are in good hands now until we get the new boss sorted. Gerry's record (in the league?) had to go sometime and it is no surprise that it went at home. To even consider the fact that he would off load players on a grudge basis is naive and smacks of people with nothing more to say on the matter offering opinions for no reason.
That is all. (and my post for the year!)
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Post by boothylegend on Nov 28, 2008 21:23:09 GMT 1
You should post more often, nw . You've hit the nail right on the head!
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Post by sunflower on Nov 28, 2008 21:27:57 GMT 1
Exactly NW, everything was rosey before Orient match, would the "Flynn move" reaction been a bit different if we'd won?
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