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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 21:31:47 GMT 1
Christ, anybody would think we'd just let Steven Gerrard leave! Everyones been saying for ages we were overloaded with central midfielders. Well we've let the one least likely to get in the team go on a months loan somewhere he'll get some games in, and all of a sudden it's slitting wrists time on here! What a joke. Theres even somebody slating Murphy for giving Clarke a new deal last time he was in temporary charge!! That'll be Clarke who's CLEARLY our best defender at the club FFS! Yeah, what a shame he wasn't allowed to leave!  Some of you need to breathe deeply and get a grip I think cos theres so much horse manure been written in this thread its untrue. ;D Fact is if Flynn had gone just after the Brighton game there wouldn't be any moaning or if we'd not gifted Orient a goal and then taken just 1 of the countless chances we had in that game then there wouldn't be any of this moaning either . but cos we somehow contrived to lose that game the clubs a farce and a joke, Hoyle must be mad, and other bollocks etc etc and Murphy is demonised for letting a pretty average squad player go out on loan for a month? Talk about over-reaction boys! People describe Worthy as box to box, and I agree, on the edge of our box he mistimes tackles, and on the edge of the opposition box he mistimes shots, then does a lot of headless running in the space inbetween. The thing that go to me was that some of Murphy's pre-game comments before Orient suggested he'd been apologising to Worthy, and reassuring him, after starting Goodwin ahead of him. A manager should not have to do that, these aren't kids, however Gerry may view them. Goodwin ahead of Worthy was the right decision, and for me Murphy bottled it by swapping Worthy for Craney mid-game. Who has given away stupid free kicks on the edge of our box FAR more than any other player this season? On various occassions leading to us conceding a goal? answer-GOODWIN ( you can kid yourself its Worthington if you like but you're wrong in fact I can't recall us conceding ONE single goal from a free kick hes given away.In fact other than the pen at Brighton ( which I thought was harsh as their guy just ran into him,) Im struggling to think of a free kick Worthys given away near our box this season. Im sure you'll be able to remember loads as he does this all the time apparently won't you? there again at brighton he did do 3 great last ditch saving tackles according to those who were there, but easier to pretend they didn't happen. Must have been trying to scyth them down but mistimed it ) and Goodwins lethal when shooting is he? You'll forget his 2 ballooned shots into row z against Orient obviously. Better just to remember the 1 lousy attempt Worthy had. Not saying Worthys a great shot, cos he isn't ,but to make out Goodwin is , is laughable. Murphy took Craney off because as usual with Craney he had totally vanished from the game as the 2nd half went on and was offering little. Worthy came on and we kept up almost constant pressure on their goal until the final whistle as they struggled to get it out of their own half. You and Shawsie seem to suffer from VERY selective viewing at games, or selective memory loss, or both. Whatever it takes to only see the bad in certain players and the good in others anyway. |
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Post by space hardware on Nov 28, 2008 21:39:23 GMT 1
Flynn isn't starting a long recovery from a broken leg or smashed knee ligaments so why send him out on loan "to gain match fitness"? He only missed three games!
He's been banished by Murphy for the heinous crime of making his admiration for Ternent known to the public, that's what is annoying me. It's petty and pathetic.
I wasn't a massive admirer of Stan but I can imagine he commands a certain amount of respect from certain players. Is it wrong to go to press and say you didn't want a manager to leave? Is HTFC a police state these days, run by Gerry Murphy? Flynn has been sent to the footballing equivalent of the Siberian salt mines for speaking his mind, not on footballing ability.
If we were loaning out players who should be nowhere near the first team then Worthless, N Clarke (someone further up this board claimed that he is our best defender - Christ on a bike, what a joke that is!!), Skarz and Collins should have been first in the queue, not Flynn.
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 21:39:44 GMT 1
People describe Worthy as box to box, and I agree, on the edge of our box he mistimes tackles, and on the edge of the opposition box he mistimes shots, then does a lot of headless running in the space inbetween. The thing that go to me was that some of Murphy's pre-game comments before Orient suggested he'd been apologising to Worthy, and reassuring him, after starting Goodwin ahead of him. A manager should not have to do that, these aren't kids, however Gerry may view them. Goodwin ahead of Worthy was the right decision, and for me Murphy bottled it by swapping Worthy for Craney mid-game.
answer-GOODWIN ( you can kid yourself its Worthington if you like but you're wrong in fact I can't recall us conceding ONE single goal from a free kick hes given away.In fact other than the pen at Brighton ( which I thought was harsh as their guy just ran into him, Im struggling to think of a free kick Worthys given away near our box this season. Im sure you'll be able to remember loads as he does this all the time apparently won't you? there again at brighton he did do 3 great last ditch saving tackles according to those who were there, but easier to pretend they didn't happen. Must have been trying to scyth them down but mistimed it ) and Goodwins lethal when shooting is he? You'll forget his 2 ballooned shots into row z against Orient obviously. Better just top remember the 1 lousy attempt Worthy had. Not saying Worthys a great shot, cos he isn't ,but to make out Goodwin is , is laughable. Murphy took Craney off because as usual with Craney he had totally vanished from the game as the 2nd half went on and was offering little. Worthy came on and we kept up almost constant pressure on their goal until the final whistle as they struggled to get it out of their own half. You and Shawsie seem to suffer from VERY selective viewing at games, or selective memory loss, or both. Whatever it takes to only see the bad in certain players and the good in others anyway. It's call rhetoric, it's a persuasive device, which intended to add a little humour with  Don't take it too literally. I just don't think Worthy contributes enough in a side that should be looking for promotion that's all. The giving away free kicks point I made was more in reference to his amazing ability to be booked every game. For me his lack of passing ability cancels out any defensive ability he might have, and then you couple that with his inability to hit a ball, and I don't see that he offers the team enough. I agree with you Goodwin isn't the best shot, but then again, I never said he was! But I don't think he has to be because he performs the holding role well. Nobody can fault Worthy for effort, I think he gives everything, but he doesn't have the ability. For me, our best midfield 3 is: Craney-------------Flynn ---------Goodwin-------- They each offer something different to the team. That'd be my pick anyway. Collins and Worthy just don't cut it imo. Holdsworth and Berret on the other hand, that's another matter entirely  |
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Post by shawsie on Nov 28, 2008 21:42:06 GMT 1
Right...before I get lambasted by the pedants for being technically wrong I would like to say that according to the official website Flynn has gone to Darlo because he has just recovered from an injury. Whether or not that injury is true, the fact is that if he has been injured, surely it is right for him to gain match fitness at another club where the competitiveness is greater than that of the reserves. If we are to disbelieve that fact then why believe a thing that comes out of the club? We obviously need to trim the wages at the club as with any business. Just because we have a rich(ish) benefactor does not mean that we should be frivolous and keep hold of assets that could be used more efficiently elsewhere to the ultimate benefit of the club. Yes Flynn has scored a few goals (or 2) and he does have a better shot at goal than Worthy (ZZ) and probably a better header than 50 pence Clarke, but while ever he is not fully match fit surely it is better for him to be playing competitive league 2 football than in the reserves. Without the full official story none of us can offer a valid opinion but while others persist in doing so it is up to the rest of us to keep the boat steady. Everything was rosy before Tuesday and if we'd have had a striker with a massive head we might have won but we didn't despite playing some good passing football (and don' forget we were missing Parker). I believe that we are in good hands now until we get the new boss sorted. Gerry's record (in the league?) had to go sometime and it is no surprise that it went at home. To even consider the fact that he would off load players on a grudge basis is naive and smacks of people with nothing more to say on the matter offering opinions for no reason. Everything was not rosy before or indeed after tues - the facts dont change - we arent good enough to get out of this league full stop at present and despite protestations to the contrary are no better now than we were under ST!!! Facts are won two lost two - same old inconsistency! As for the flynn gaining match fitness point, what happened to cadamarteri? He hasnt been match fit for years but he wasnt sent anywhere on loan was he??!! He came straight back into the squad despite being injured for alot longer than flynny. I would have more respect if GM said he isnt in my plans and i am letting him get first team football til the new mgr is appointed! Furthermore, i think it is right (the same as many did with stan) to question why players are now playing week in week out (collins and worthy!) who arent as good as one who has left? Some may disagree with me and are entitled to their opinions, but nobody is telling me flynn has left for footballing reasons!!! |
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Post by midge on Nov 28, 2008 21:42:58 GMT 1
Exactly NW, everything was rosey before Orient match, would the "Flynn move" reaction been a bit different if we'd won? I've heard this 'everything was rosy before the Orient game' argument before, and to be honest, it is a load of old Bollox!!! To be honest, the L**ds and Brighton wins have just papered over the cracks, two games which on another day we could easily have lost!! Add that to the Port Vale game debacle, and all I see that has happened is that some have falsely started believing that going back to what we had is actually a step forward!! You can't fault GM's caretaker record, but the worry is that his success is just on the back of getting 'his boys' to play for him and his 3 5 2 formation!! Long term, my personal opinion is that this will not work and the sooner a new manager comes in with new ideas (and new players!) the better!!! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 21:49:15 GMT 1
Brightside- Clarke is our best defender. Do you even go to the games? Your comments are so far off the mark I can't decide whether you're on a wind-up.
And this presumption that its all because Flynn said it was a mistake for ternent to go? You don't know that, youre just making stuff up. Isn't it far more likely its because Flynn is way down the pecking order of our central midfielders because hes managed ONE good game in 18 attempts?
Tom- we've done this to death. You 'll have to just continue to see what you want and ignore what you don't want ( like JWs great passing game against Crewe for example), Im obviously not going to change your mind and you certainly aren't going to change mine.
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Post by Sheps on Nov 28, 2008 21:56:57 GMT 1
Flynn going isn't a problem, he's not set the world alight, we won't struggle (more than usuall) with out him.
The problem is we don't have a manager and we need one in the next two weeks.
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Post by shawsie on Nov 28, 2008 21:59:58 GMT 1
People describe Worthy as box to box, and I agree, on the edge of our box he mistimes tackles, and on the edge of the opposition box he mistimes shots, then does a lot of headless running in the space inbetween. The thing that go to me was that some of Murphy's pre-game comments before Orient suggested he'd been apologising to Worthy, and reassuring him, after starting Goodwin ahead of him. A manager should not have to do that, these aren't kids, however Gerry may view them. Goodwin ahead of Worthy was the right decision, and for me Murphy bottled it by swapping Worthy for Craney mid-game. Who has given away stupid free kicks on the edge of our box FAR more than any other player this season? On various occassions leading to us conceding a goal? answer-GOODWIN ( you can kid yourself its Worthington if you like but you're wrong in fact I can't recall us conceding ONE single goal from a free kick hes given away.In fact other than the pen at Brighton ( which I thought was harsh as their guy just ran into him,) Im struggling to think of a free kick Worthys given away near our box this season. Im sure you'll be able to remember loads as he does this all the time apparently won't you? there again at brighton he did do 3 great last ditch saving tackles according to those who were there, but easier to pretend they didn't happen. Must have been trying to scyth them down but mistimed it ) and Goodwins lethal when shooting is he? You'll forget his 2 ballooned shots into row z against Orient obviously. Better just to remember the 1 lousy attempt Worthy had. Not saying Worthys a great shot, cos he isn't ,but to make out Goodwin is , is laughable. Murphy took Craney off because as usual with Craney he had totally vanished from the game as the 2nd half went on and was offering little. Worthy came on and we kept up almost constant pressure on their goal until the final whistle as they struggled to get it out of their own half. You and Shawsie seem to suffer from VERY selective viewing at games, or selective memory loss, or both. Whatever it takes to only see the bad in certain players and the good in others anyway. Absolute bloody tosh slapps!!! How many people describe you as worthys dad?? Thats selective viewing fella!!! He and Nathan Clarke have been the common theme throughout the last three years of complete mediocrity. We have tried partners galore for both of them and none have proved fruitful - that tells me that they might be the problem. To prove i am not "selective"i actually think clarkey has played quite well this season, but the fact remains we still havent found a partner!! As for worthy - well where do you start? Does he tackle well and stop the opposition playing - providing cover to the back four ? NO Does he pass the ball well and link up play for us? NO Does he score goals? NO Does he create goals? NO Can he beat a man? NO Is his discipline good? NO Does he work hard going box to box and give his best? YES Simple fact is the lad is a mid table league 1 player and if that is good enough for us so be it - it just happens that i want us to go up a level and worthy isnt good enough to match that. The very selective viewers think we have improved under GM - it might be prettier but its the same win one lose one routine we have had for 3 years now!!! |
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Post by specialun on Nov 28, 2008 22:06:54 GMT 1
No, that shows hes noticed how Craney disappears from games in the last half hour. Don't know whether its a stamina thing or what, but he does. I'm sorry but bringing on Worthy looking for a goal is like bringing on Unsworth to inject some pace at the back. Agree in theory - but can't agree with that in context of tuesday's game. Both collins and craney were non existent and getting dragged out wide leaving space in the centre. Craney had a shot saved, collins had two wide but neither did enough graft, involvement in build up play etc. We needed some energy in there - worthy added that, or you could have put someone who wanted to get on the ball i.e. berrett or holdsworth rather than players running onto the ball. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 28, 2008 22:32:39 GMT 1
Are you talking rubbish? YES
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 28, 2008 22:34:41 GMT 1
Are you talking rubbish? YES So we know Malvin is Footballno7 You're not ginger are you by any chance Slaps? ;D |
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Post by shawsie on Nov 28, 2008 22:35:00 GMT 1
Are you talking rubbish? YES Keep burying your head capn ostrich!!! |
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Post by johns on Nov 28, 2008 22:48:39 GMT 1
shawsie youve got it right worthington has had enough time he isnt good enough fact!! and any one who thinks craney,flynn,goodwin etc arent better are not watching same game as me and my mates ,32 years of watching town and i think this is the most overated player ive seen,no energy blows up after 60 mins cant shoot cant tackle cant manage other players ie captin should have been fuck** off years ago!!
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Post by space hardware on Nov 28, 2008 22:54:01 GMT 1
Captainslapper - my first game was the Newport County promotion decider in 1983. I've followed Town up and down the country since then (save for a couple of years when I was a skint student) and am now a season ticket holder in what used to be the Panasonic (can't bring myself to say Fantastic Media Stand).
Me and you have differing points of view, that's what this board is all about.
I thought Clarke was going to be a proper player (I'm talking good standard Premier League, like a much better version of Andy O'Brien) when he first broke through but that hasn't happened. Whether it's injuries or just him failing to kick on, I don't know.
All I know is that I'd have preferred him and not Dave Mirfin to have left the club in the summer. We see the same bad decisions, the same poor positional sense, the same aimless long balls week in week out from him. It's been the same for years. He isn't going to get better, he wouldn't cut it at a higher level, why pretend otherwise?
That's my opinion. I'm not a wind up merchant, I just want to see the club progress.
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 28, 2008 23:12:03 GMT 1
He and Nathan Clarke have been the common theme throughout the last three years of complete mediocrity. We have tried partners galore for both of them and none have proved fruitful - that tells me that they might be the problem. None of those partners have proved themselves elsewhere, all, except Mirf have gone to lower leagues. The conclusion could just as easily be that Nathan and Worthy helped them play at a higher level. |
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Post by shawsie on Nov 28, 2008 23:19:41 GMT 1
None proved themselves elsewhere??
Havent page, lucketti, butler, mcintosh ALL played at championship level or in some cases higher??
Likewise goodwin, wallwork, flynn??
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Post by dan1el on Nov 29, 2008 1:54:08 GMT 1
Errrr, where have any of those players listed ever played anywhere higher after leaving us?
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 29, 2008 2:09:12 GMT 1
Captainslapper - my first game was the Newport County promotion decider in 1983. I've followed Town up and down the country since then (save for a couple of years when I was a skint student) and am now a season ticket holder in what used to be the Panasonic (can't bring myself to say Fantastic Media Stand). Me and you have differing points of view, that's what this board is all about. I thought Clarke was going to be a proper player (I'm talking good standard Premier League, like a much better version of Andy O'Brien) when he first broke through but that hasn't happened. Whether it's injuries or just him failing to kick on, I don't know. All I know is that I'd have preferred him and not Dave Mirfin to have left the club in the summer. We see the same bad decisions, the same poor positional sense, the same aimless long balls week in week out from him. It's been the same for years. He isn't going to get better, he wouldn't cut it at a higher level, why pretend otherwise? That's my opinion. I'm not a wind up merchant, I just want to see the club progress. Its all,about opinions pal and your entitled to yours. I couldn't disagree with what you say about Clarke more though. Clarke has been outstanding all year since he finally had a decent partner alongside him in Page, instead of the increasingly hopeless Mirfin. Form hes carried on this year next to Butler. He is comfortably the superior player of the 3 centre backs we have in every aspect of the game that centre backs need. Tackling, mobility, aeriel power,consistancy, lack of errors, and in particular passing - I suggest you actually try watching where his passes go. You'll notice they pretty much always go to a Town player. Its something he used to be justifyably critisised for, but it has improved no end in the last 12 months. Im trying to think of a player whos been consistantly better than Clarke this season and Im struggling to name one. Very strong candidate for POTS Shawsie-I haven't got my head in the sand mate. I actually watch what a player does, rather than go with a pre-concieved opinion of what Im going to see. Then edit it to suit that opinion. I can only think thats what you and the likes of Tom do. If its a player you like you only see the good things. If its one you don't like ,you only see the bad. |
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Post by kleverboy on Nov 29, 2008 8:25:46 GMT 1
Shawsie-I haven't got my head in the sand mate. I actually watch what a player does, rather than go with a pre-concieved opinion of what Im going to see. Then edit it to suit that opinion. I can only think thats what you and the likes of Tom do. If its a player you like you only see the good things. If its one you don't like ,you only see the bad. Unfortunately, Captain, they are only going to come back and level this one at you. Or maybe they'll surprise me... they wouldn't be that obvious, would they? |
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Post by alexdire on Nov 29, 2008 10:12:07 GMT 1
This thread is over the top he is just an average midfielder who has been sent out to Darlo! Everybody has said we have too many CM's, and none of them are world beaters or we wouldn't be where we are. We probably have to create space in the squad for new signings that the new bloke might make, so some people have to go. Also it stays in the story Darlo enquired about him. We can't send people out who nobody wants, if Collins, Worthington etal are as crap as people say nobody would want them!
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Post by kleverboy on Nov 29, 2008 10:23:24 GMT 1
This thread is over the top he is just an average midfielder who has been sent out to Darlo! Everybody has said we have too many CM's, and none of them are world beaters or we wouldn't be where we are. We probably have to create space in the squad for new signings that the new bloke might make, so some people have to go. Also it stays in the story Darlo enquired about him. We can't send people out who nobody wants, if Collins, Worthington etal are as crap as people say nobody would want them! I think that says it all, really! |
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Post by terrierng on Nov 29, 2008 10:28:14 GMT 1
Errrr, where have any of those players listed ever played anywhere higher after leaving us? lucketti---preston wallwork--sheff weds....still crap i admit. |
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Post by shawsie on Nov 29, 2008 12:18:56 GMT 1
Shawsie-I haven't got my head in the sand mate. I actually watch what a player does, rather than go with a pre-concieved opinion of what Im going to see. Then edit it to suit that opinion. I can only think thats what you and the likes of Tom do. If its a player you like you only see the good things. If its one you don't like ,you only see the bad. Unfortunately, Captain, they are only going to come back and level this one at you. Or maybe they'll surprise me... they wouldn't be that obvious, would they? Meeooww!! I dont have any pre-conceived idea about any town player though - do i think clarkey is good enough to play in a promotion winning side? No, based on the last 3 seasons evidence, but i agree with slapps he has been possibly our most consistent performer this year and deserves credit for that. Similarly i dont dispute worthy's workrate and effort - its just that for me he isnt good enough to help us win promotion and his performances during the last 3 years confirm this. Yes he has good games some times, but not enough for me! All about opinions though i suppose and we will have to agree to disagree! |
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 29, 2008 12:33:49 GMT 1
Both Worthy and Nathan played a major part in the team that finished fourth within the last three years.
If you want a reason why the team has performed poorly in the last three years the I suggest it’s because we haven’t had a striker who can get 20+ goals in a season. The loss of form coincided with Pav stopping scoring goals.
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Post by Tez on Nov 29, 2008 12:38:51 GMT 1
How many seasons have we been saying that we need a 20+ goals a season striker?
Too long now. Way too long.
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 29, 2008 12:49:06 GMT 1
How many seasons have we been saying that we need a 20+ goals a season striker? Too long now. Way too long. It’s exactly three years: after we won in the 2nd round of the cup and drew Chelsea. |
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Post by Tez on Nov 29, 2008 12:53:48 GMT 1
I knew Cap't. Just stating a fact. If slightly hidden. |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Nov 29, 2008 12:54:47 GMT 1
Brilliant day out at Chelsea, all the Town fans singing in the slug and lettuce, also first time going to the new stamford bridge and seeing GTF making it 1-1...
missing the Cup this season, how shit to have a completely empty saturday...
ps... are all these allerdyce rumours true, cant believe he would agree to be Town manager ??
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Post by CaptainHart on Nov 29, 2008 13:01:37 GMT 1
Brilliant day out at Chelsea, all the Town fans singing in the slug and lettuce, also first time going to the new stamford bridge and seeing GTF making it 1-1... Did we trade that for promotion though? If we did, was it worth it? |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Nov 29, 2008 13:19:06 GMT 1
 Hard to say really , might have had some effect but not totally ? anyway the most important matter is when will we appoint our new manager, any ideas ?
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Don't take it too literally.
Hard to say really , might have had some effect but not totally ? anyway the most important matter is when will we appoint our new manager, any ideas ?