Fantoolong
Tom Cowan Terrier
They must find it difficult ,those who accept authority as truth rather than truth as authority.
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Post by Fantoolong on Nov 11, 2014 21:41:38 GMT 1
There is a definition-"The Sexual Offences Act 2003 (the Act) came into force on the 1st May 2004. The purpose of the Act was to strengthen and modernise the law on sexual offences, whilst improving preventative measures and the protection of individuals from sexual offenders. The Act extends the definition of rape to include the penetration by a penis of the vagina, anus or mouth of another person. The 2003 Act also updates the law about consent and belief in consent.
How many of us have children, would the terribly tragic act be committed against any of our daughters or sons, would our opinions of the suitability of an individual to be employed in the 'public eye' (as it were) be something we could condone, I doubt it very much indeed.
He was convicted, he has apparently shown no remorse, nor has he apologised. Yes the sentence has been carried out but there appears to be no evidence of any rehabilitation either in terms of understanding the magnitude of what he did or an awareness of the consequences.
As for suitability of working, there are many instances where such an offence would preclude you from future employment, primarily in the care related sector. But I worry about how many young men will see what has happened and the fairly minimal consequences should he return to football, do not misunderstand me, I am not suggesting he will be emulated, but with the exception of a fairly minimal sentence , if he returns to play football , then for him the consequences are nothing compared to what the victim will suffer. Rape can have consequences for the victim months, perhaps years down the line. Who will pay for the care some victims need as a consequence of his actions, not him that's for sure.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Nov 11, 2014 22:24:41 GMT 1
Think most guys reading this thread will probably know that I find Ched Evans being welcomed back by the blades in training disappointing. The club statement to me seems ridiculous to me - the club doesn't condone rape but doesn't mind a rapist training with them. Just a sly way to try and reintroduce the lad with minimal fuss back into the club. Disappointing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 1:31:00 GMT 1
Yep disappointing but completely predictable. Just the boost that Sheff U need, that's what matters. Get him in on a cheap deal, score plenty of goals. F*ck what he did. F*ck what message it gives to young fans. Just hide behind the rehabilitation of offenders act, for an offender who has in no way been rehabilitated.
I wonder if Nigel's dad would've had him lining up for him, well he might have...in a firing squad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 1:46:39 GMT 1
Too many times the law and society point out precedents to justify someones rights and slowly but surely the morals and principles of society get eroded and the boundaries of decency get stretched. The law needs revisiting and changing to protect young footballers and victims alike and sex offenders should be banned from plying their trade in any high profile position. Top top post. Superbly and concisely put Bro. Campaigns like the change one re posted above will hopefully continue to make the point some of us have made on this thread. It goes way beyond the simplistic argument of the rehabilitation of offenders act & similar such statements as 'served his time' etc. There is an issue of morality and social cohesion here- 'the concept of harm'- John Stuart Mill. A change in the law with an enhanced criminal records disclosure required for high profile professional sportsmen and women would be an effective and implementable step that could be taken. This would proclude them from working in fields where they are role models and in a position to influence impressionable young fans. As an advanced and progressive society we need to take a lead in trying to shape the development of our young people, not by denying footballers as role models but ensuring that they give out a positive message of hard work, honesty, integrity and then the accompanying success, fame etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 2:20:17 GMT 1
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bigfatmonkey
Andy Booth Terrier
Ooh to be a, ooh to be a terrier
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Post by bigfatmonkey on Nov 12, 2014 4:38:06 GMT 1
Is that the guy who got injured in a challenge with Rachubka a few years ago?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 7:07:59 GMT 1
This was a good read. Seems like a really sensible, nice guy.
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Post by bro600 on Nov 12, 2014 7:20:25 GMT 1
High Profile ...A position that attracts a lot of interest either in the press or on public platform.. I'm honestly not trying to argue but demographics are so varied. Should a convicted rapist be allowed on X Factor or to be in a board room? I dare say readers of the Star and FT have hugely conflicting views on what makes a newsworthy profile. No argument really, just a debate. The kind of debate that changes the way society deals with sex offenders and others sadly portray as a "witch hunt" .. You and others are right about Ched Evans, at this moment in time the law states he's got a right to play football for who he wants. But i find it quite refreshing to see so many supporters not just letting a convicted sex offender creep back into the game without it measuring on the socially acceptable scale. Hopefully laws will be changed and a convicted sex offender will not be allowed on X Factor or even in a boardroom as they are positions where they are idolized by children and in a position of power with a possibility to use that power for sexual gain. I don't care if it's hard to judge or gauge just move the slider to make it difficult for sex offenders and as a deterrent to others who are morally incorrect.
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 12, 2014 7:34:23 GMT 1
A patron of Sheffield United football club, Charlie Webster, has told the BBC she's resigned over the club's decision to allow the convicted rapist, Ched Evans, to train with the squad. www.bbc.com/news/uk-30015434
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 8:16:12 GMT 1
Is that the guy who got injured in a challenge with Rachubka a few years ago? I'm not sure, could be. I'm sure we will have played him at some point. Good on the guy though- I felt he talks well about what strengths footballers do/can bring and how they can offer a lot to society in other ways. Cracking role model I thought.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 8:57:52 GMT 1
Too many people hiding behind "the law states" line here.
If we continue to accept that a convicted rapist should be allowed to play professional football because the law says he can, then the law will never change.
The vast majority of people who've said that Evans should be allowed to resume his career have also stated that its morally wrong, and they wouldn't want to see him playing at their club.
The law needs changing in my opinion, and the only way that will happen is if people speak up and say so, rather than hiding behind the current legislative measures.
If he wants a career in football, then he can become an agent, it'll suit his slippery character down to a tee.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 12, 2014 9:34:02 GMT 1
If anyone of you on here had been found guilty & sent to prison for a heinous crime you did not commit would you admit to doing it??
Or would you proclaim your innocence??
I know what I'd be doing, and I wouldn't be doing any apologising.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 9:40:09 GMT 1
If anyone of you on here had been found guilty & sent to prison for a heinous crime you did not commit would you admit to doing it?? Or would you proclaim your innocence?? I know what I'd be doing, and I wouldn't be doing any apologising. It's not the A Team. He did do it. He was found guilty and his appeal rejected.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Nov 12, 2014 10:02:49 GMT 1
When i read that he was back in training - which was late last night after the gym - some of you may think it an overreaction but i actually felt physically sick. The bravado of the lad to believe he can behave anyway he chooses do a bit of time for something where he believes he did nothing wrong and come back to the life he had before is just astounding. A girlfriend waiting for him to marry him and this time next year i guess he will be super Ched Evans again. What about the poor lass that has had to change her identity and move because of all this? I don't get what lad in his right mind would want to film and sleep with a lass that's so smashed she isn't even awake? How did he enjoy that? The whole thing is disgusting IMO it really is. Is this the message we are sending out to football following children today? That it is acceptable to behave like this and still be a hero on the field.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 12, 2014 10:04:06 GMT 1
If anyone of you on here had been found guilty & sent to prison for a heinous crime you did not commit would you admit to doing it?? Or would you proclaim your innocence?? I know what I'd be doing, and I wouldn't be doing any apologising. It's not the A Team. He did do it. He was found guilty and his appeal rejected. How do you know he did it?? because the court said so?? And no, it's not the A-Team, it's a theoretical question!!
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 12, 2014 10:10:07 GMT 1
I would imagine it would be an absolute legal minefield trying to ban convicted criminals from plying their trade.
Completely at odds with European law too.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Nov 12, 2014 10:20:22 GMT 1
I would imagine it would be an absolute legal minefield trying to ban convicted criminals from plying their trade. Completely at odds with European law too. At what point do we say that just because something is legally right that it is morally right? Whilst he slots back into the high profile and highly exonerated career - lets face it he only needs to score a screamer and he will be Super Ched Evans again - what about his victim? She wont ever slot back into her life
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 12, 2014 10:34:27 GMT 1
At what point do we say that just because something is legally right that it is morally right? Whilst he slots back into the high profile and highly exonerated career - lets face it he only needs to score a screamer and he will be Super Ched Evans again - what about his victim? She wont ever slot back into her life I'm not saying it is morally right but I've argued the case for rehabilitation already in this thread and even though I've taken on board all thoughts and opinions expressed on here I can't have it both ways. I have to stand by the concept of rehabilitation or not. I can think of lots of things that are legally right but not morally right from environmental issues to the behaviour of large multinationals, wages, insurance companies, lots of things but I don't want to derail the thread. As for his victim, wasn't she bragging on Facebook about a big payday not long after the alleged incident? Correct me if I'm wrong, just something I thought I'd read. As for the 'Super Ched Evans' thing he's never going to shake off the rapist tag, even if he was to somehow prove his proclaimed innocence in the future. It will forever tar his name.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 10:41:59 GMT 1
I actually feel confident and proud that our beloved club wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 12, 2014 10:51:20 GMT 1
At what point do we say that just because something is legally right that it is morally right? Whilst he slots back into the high profile and highly exonerated career - lets face it he only needs to score a screamer and he will be Super Ched Evans again - what about his victim? She wont ever slot back into her life I'm not saying it is morally right but I've argued the case for rehabilitation already in this thread and even though I've taken on board all thoughts and opinions expressed on here I can't have it both ways. I have to stand by the concept of rehabilitation or not. I can think of lots of things that are legally right but not morally right from environmental issues to the behaviour of large multinationals, wages, insurance companies, lots of things but I don't want to derail the thread. As for his victim, wasn't she bragging on Facebook about a big payday not long after the alleged incident? Correct me if I'm wrong, just something I thought I'd read.
As for the 'Super Ched Evans' thing he's never going to shake off the rapist tag, even if he was to somehow prove his proclaimed innocence in the future. It will forever tar his name. Correct.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Nov 12, 2014 11:06:57 GMT 1
I'm not saying it is morally right but I've argued the case for rehabilitation already in this thread and even though I've taken on board all thoughts and opinions expressed on here I can't have it both ways. I have to stand by the concept of rehabilitation or not. I can think of lots of things that are legally right but not morally right from environmental issues to the behaviour of large multinationals, wages, insurance companies, lots of things but I don't want to derail the thread. As for his victim, wasn't she bragging on Facebook about a big payday not long after the alleged incident? Correct me if I'm wrong, just something I thought I'd read.
As for the 'Super Ched Evans' thing he's never going to shake off the rapist tag, even if he was to somehow prove his proclaimed innocence in the future. It will forever tar his name. Correct. Not saying she was right in doing that at all in fact i find it very wrong but seems to be the way things are today that if folk are upset or happy they take to social media to proclaim it. Posting how she is going to get vengeance for what he did to her on social media isn't very wise but understandable to a degree
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Nov 12, 2014 11:13:00 GMT 1
Too many people hiding behind "the law states" line here. If we continue to accept that a convicted rapist should be allowed to play professional football because the law says he can, then the law will never change. The vast majority of people who've said that Evans should be allowed to resume his career have also stated that its morally wrong, and they wouldn't want to see him playing at their club. The law needs changing in my opinion, and the only way that will happen is if people speak up and say so, rather than hiding behind the current legislative measures. If he wants a career in football, then he can become an agent, it'll suit his slippery character down to a tee. Hiding behind the line the law states ? Of course we have to abide by the law of the land, and there are cases that lead to laws being changed as there always have. Surely you can't convict any criminal by following the law of the land and then not use the law of the land when he has served his time and punishment because it is not deemed morally right? People's morals differ vastly. The NFL in the US believe that to play their game professionally is a privilege and has banned several players from doing so if their behaviour is seen as detrimental on a case by case approach. Football is a worldwide sport so it would be much tougher to instigate a similar ban worldwide but individual countries football authorities IMO should look at this. Maybe it's time for the FA to look at these offences on a case by case basis. IMO it is too late to ban Evans now but I would like future cases to be dealt with by the FA at the time of the guilty court verdict. I'm sure the FA and the PFA aren't exactly proud to have a convicted rapist among their ranks. Evans is a registered sex offender and is restricted from working with children and vulnerable adults, being a footballer isn't currently on the list who knows it might be in the future. I'm not sure the personal Evans witchhunt will achieve this but campaigning to the lawmakers and The FA just might do.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 12, 2014 11:20:22 GMT 1
Not saying she was right in doing that at all in fact i find it very wrong but seems to be the way things are today that if folk are upset or happy they take to social media to proclaim it. Posting how she is going to get vengeance for what he did to her on social media isn't very wise but understandable to a degree Vengence = £'sssssssss
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Post by Barbieterrier on Nov 12, 2014 11:22:42 GMT 1
Not saying she was right in doing that at all in fact i find it very wrong but seems to be the way things are today that if folk are upset or happy they take to social media to proclaim it. Posting how she is going to get vengeance for what he did to her on social media isn't very wise but understandable to a degree Vengence = £'sssssssss Absolutely - just like money he said will make from his book and his return to football - a packet from having sex with an unconscious girl - seedy the whole lot of it
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 12, 2014 11:28:01 GMT 1
Absolutely - just like money he said will make from his book and his return to football - a packet from having sex with an unconscious girl - seedy the whole lot of it This the same unconscious girl who walked to the hotel reception from the room to collect a pizza??
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 12, 2014 11:28:34 GMT 1
seedy the whole lot of it Now there's something I think we can all agree on.
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Post by Barbieterrier on Nov 12, 2014 12:19:59 GMT 1
Absolutely - just like money he said will make from his book and his return to football - a packet from having sex with an unconscious girl - seedy the whole lot of it This the same unconscious girl who walked to the hotel reception from the room to collect a pizza?? Having managed to walk to a taxi rank myself fine but passing out in the taxi fully and having the guy i am with having to walk me to my own front door not 20 minutes later - yep easily done
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 12:30:02 GMT 1
I doubt town would allow him to train at canalside if he had of been a town player before his conviction. If they did allow him too I wouldn't be happy about it. I'm not sure if Sheffield United will sign him up or not. I'd be suprised after the time he's spent out of the game that he will play at league one level. As a convicted rapist, he will be on the sex offenders register. Would he therefore not allowed to be around children? I ask this because the younth sides would be training similar times to the first team. Surely that would be against the law? I don't know. It's not good for Sheffield uniteds PR. The one that often gets forgotten is the victim.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 12, 2014 13:01:15 GMT 1
The other female 'victim' in this case that seems to be ignored is his girlfriend - and she seems to believe him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 13:03:00 GMT 1
No pride in herself IMO.
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