jasonhand
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,971
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Post by jasonhand on Sept 1, 2015 19:55:37 GMT 1
I don't think anyone can criticise DH for what he has done for the club and I'm certainly not criticising the sale of JB. We made a massive profit and he wanted to move on. Selling him was the sensible option.
Clearly we need to balance the books and selling our better players is inevitable in the way football is at the moment. My problem which has already been said here is there is no direction. Our signings seem to be really slap dash. We buy a player and he then goes out on loan. We can't afford such luxuries at the moment.
With the sale of AS and JB yes some of that money has to go to balancing the books but some of it has to be reinvested in the squad. If we squander this money on loan signings what's going to happen in 12 to 18 months when we need to balance the books again but on this occasion we don't have the players to sell to do this
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Post by townrwe on Sept 1, 2015 19:56:06 GMT 1
Maybe Ross Wilson did do a good job because this transfer window has been totally shambolic!! I was under the impression that Ross had set the targets for this window..... maybe he's stitched us up, so he looks better to the football world.
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Post by 3Pipe on Sept 1, 2015 19:56:48 GMT 1
If either of you two, or anyone else come to think of it, can give me a plausible business case for dropping a division then I'd love to hear it. Because deano, first and foremost, is a businessman. What possible scenario is being in league one preferable to the championship? Because the wage bill reduction will be far higher then the reduction we receive in revenue from ticket sales. There is that, of course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 20:00:17 GMT 1
I'm as disappointed as anybody about the sale of Butterfield, not so much Hammill, and I'd be happy if we could get Vaughan's wages off our balance sheet - but I do have to say that the reactions of a small, but growing, minority on here is very poor and a tad immature "I want it and I want it NOW !" We've had everything from Hoyle has given up, we're selling the family silver, we're planning for Division 1,and even the suggestion that Dean Hoyle doesn't care anymore and lies to supporters.I've not seen a shred of evidence for any of this, other than that Mr Hoyle won't splash out another £10 million of his own money I'm not going to go in to the well-documented factual bit about how much Dean Hoyle has personally done for this club - that's been explained numerous times before - but I'd merely like to say that when he says that the money will be re-invested in the club I believe him totally. I'm old enough to have supported Town under numerous Chairmen, some of whom I wouldn't dream of believing, but when Dean Hoyle says that he is trying to do the best for Town - and that money will be spent - I'm more than happy to trust him. The fact that we seemingly haven't bought a big name today does not mean that we're not working really hard to get the players in - yes, we may have to wait for the loan window to open but we've got weeks before our next match. We could have sold Butterfield a few weeks ago apparently, and that would have given us more time, but I suspect Huddersfield Town got a lot more for him by holding out. In the end as supporters we make a choice - you can either believe that we won't be bringing people in and are planning for relegation or you can be patient, admittedly harder, and wait to see what happens. Whatever you decide I don't really see the need for the vitriol and incredibly childish rubbish that has been aimed at Dean Hoyle. I sometimes think that some of the negative stuff that is so prevalent on this board says so much more about the authors than it does about the club. So what do you think is going to happen to the £8m the club has just made by selling our most valuable assets? It certainly isn't getting invested back into the team and that's no accident. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how blinkered.
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Post by dugnet on Sept 1, 2015 20:02:20 GMT 1
I think your missing the point, I don't have a problem with any of the players leaving. Neither does the lack of a big name. But theres zero logic to anything we've done in terms of bringing people in. Chronically short of quality strikers and defenders and Patterson signed.... Its a mess. On that i agree with you. Paterson seems a strange addition when on one hand we are already strong in wide areas and on the other we are so obviously weak in others, like centre back and striker. Im going to give a lot of DATM a miss for a few days because I know it will be full of melodramatic tantrums and a lot of woe-is-me nonsense. On the sale of butterfield- we've got an amazingly good price for a player who was insisting he leaves. Anyone who thinks £4m isn't a great price for JB is deluding themselves IMO. We bought him for £300k a year ago- hes pretty much the same player he was then. He plays in a side that gets slaughtered for its lack of creativity when he is the main player responsible for creativity. Yet £4m isn't enough??!! If I had to value him id have said £1.5m to £2m would be a cracking price and 5 times + what we paid for him. To get THIRTEEN times what we paid for him is incredible IMO. But its disappointing we haven't brought in a permanent replacement. Maybe we'll have to use more loans or wait until january. End of the day I think its best to look at things in a pragmatic and honest way. Don't sugar coat things and don't make things out to be worse than they are. The OP is right about it being about trust. Trust between the club and the fans. IMO the fans will get the club they deserve ( and when i say fans- I mean everyone in this area who would call HTFC their club if asked- the 35000 that went to Old trafford for example). Maybe the club they deserve is a League 1 club? If there's a fan who doesn't deserve a league 1 club though, its our owner because hes personally paid for better than that. Hes also paid for better support than the drop in attendances weve been having ( because we don't win all the time now) and the constant negativity and moaning that fills social media and phone-ins. Thats where the 'trust' has been lost if its anywhere. I don't think we're planning for league 1 at all. I think we're planning to be a club where the owner doesn't have to spunk out £0.5m a month. Month after month, year after year. I can't blame him for that and I don't see a queue of others wanting to take his place in the 'chucking your money away whilst league positions improve and crowds fall' game. Im just going to enjoy being in this division whilst it lasts. Enjoy games and support the club ( or be a happy-clapper as its now known). As I said, we'll probably get the club we deserve eventually and it will be back in the Third tier, with a team worth nothing and malvin Kamara on a free being our big summer signing coup. But we'll be one of the bigger clubs and win a bit more often so maybe more people will be happy and enjoy it more? I'll certainly still be going as frankly thats the level Ive been most accustomed to whilst Ive been a town fan. I am sorry Cpt but I am going to disagree here. I would hope you acknowledge I have a history of presenting a rounded view but some of the "woe is me merchants" actually have a point. We are getting hung up on cash but we need to recognise that there are serious concerns with regard to results, performances and direction (of the first team). When you add the lack of results from the academy it isn't surprising that the rounded loyal fans, like me, are questioning our strategy. Every time the progress debate surfaces there is a general spot with those defending DH and those criticising. The truth is usually in the middle but dismiss the more negative with the comment "we'll get the club we deserve" is s cheap cop out. People won't support a team they don't believe in, at the moment - for a variety of reasons - the floating fan doesn't believe in the team and won't pay to watch. That leaves the loyal ones like me who are essentially condemned to be told "well, what did you expect?...the fans aren't coming". This attitude simply isn't acceptable it's all the fans fault we haven't made the best use of the undoubted investment, it's all the fans fault that we haven't picked an outstanding manager and it's all the fans fault that the academy (which they support directly through patronising canalside, lotteries etc) hasn't produced. By all means disagree with the more negative, I know I have down the years, but right now some more than have a point and those don't expect more cash to be thrown at it but do expect more from the cash we have. To be told because we aren't all happy we are responsible isn't on and completely misses the point. I want to be positive but we are getting left behind, and maybe that's beyond DH's control, but don't blame me for saying I thin we can do better right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 20:02:52 GMT 1
That's been my gut feeling for a while now. Nothing wrong with thinking ahead given the drop in attendances. If either of you two, or anyone else come to think of it, can give me a plausible business case for dropping a division then I'd love to hear it. Because deano, first and foremost, is a businessman. What possible scenario is being in league one preferable to the championship? So why are the board trying as hard as possible to weaken an already struggling team? Go on..... They are hardly strengthening the squad in a time where we are struggling. They've been liquidising and cost cutting since January. This window it's just been more obvious.
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 1, 2015 20:05:36 GMT 1
I thought Dean made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that we are not prepared to pay over the odds for any player? Ask yourself when players are likely to command the highest fees? The policy is to look for good deals, part exchanges and quality players on loan with views to permanent deals. It's been like this every window last few years, hasn't it?
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Post by niggled on Sept 1, 2015 20:06:29 GMT 1
I feel sure there is a limit of five loan players in a match day squad ,. if that is the case we arn,t bringing too many more in are we, as they won,t even be sat on the bench. I agree with selling JB for that amount though, too good to refuse.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Sept 1, 2015 20:13:34 GMT 1
Sick to my back teeth with some of the stuff I've read on DATM and elsewhere, some twat on Twitter claimed he was pleased he had not got a seaon ticket this year now, because Hoyle hadn't fished £8m out of his back pocket and spent it on the team!!
I'd be pretty miffed if I was Hoyle - is £35m not enough? Come on guys - next one up with the cash & the balls - I am sure Dean will get off the pot!!
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Post by Porrohman on Sept 1, 2015 20:18:02 GMT 1
Sick to my back teeth with some of the stuff I've read on DATM and elsewhere, some twat on Twitter claimed he was pleased he had not got a seaon ticket this year now, because Hoyle hadn't fished £8m out of his back pocket and spent it on the team!! I'd be pretty miffed if I was Hoyle - is £35m not enough? Come on guys - next one up with the cash & the balls - I am sure Dean will get off the pot!! Where will that £35m have got us when we're back in league 1 next year, he might as well have just burnt it Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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Post by Essex Terrier on Sept 1, 2015 20:19:42 GMT 1
Sick to my back teeth with some of the stuff I've read on DATM and elsewhere, some twat on Twitter claimed he was pleased he had not got a seaon ticket this year now, because Hoyle hadn't fished £8m out of his back pocket and spent it on the team!! I'd be pretty miffed if I was Hoyle - is £35m not enough? Come on guys - next one up with the cash & the balls - I am sure Dean will get off the pot!! Where will that £35m have got us when we're back in league 1 next year, he might as well have just burnt it Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards He's paid for your ego trip in the championship pal!
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Post by Big Ern on Sept 1, 2015 20:21:28 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle has spent 38 million and just got back 9 million. There comes a time when that money he spent can't be used as an excuse for dismantling the team
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Post by thomo on Sept 1, 2015 20:21:44 GMT 1
I feel sure there is a limit of five loan players in a match day squad ,. if that is the case we arn,t bringing too many more in are we, as they won,t even be sat on the bench. I agree with selling JB for that amount though, too good to refuse. I sound like a broken record but think this is the biggest issue now. We still need a striker, right back, centre back, and poss a more direct replacement for butts than Patterson. Play those alongside Carayol and Huws and put Patterson on the bench and that makes 7 loan players. We really thought this through didn't we!!!! Doh!!!!!!
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Post by morrisraspass on Sept 1, 2015 20:23:22 GMT 1
If either of you two, or anyone else come to think of it, can give me a plausible business case for dropping a division then I'd love to hear it. Because deano, first and foremost, is a businessman. What possible scenario is being in league one preferable to the championship? So why are the board trying as hard as possible to weaken an already struggling team? Go on..... They are hardly strengthening the squad in a time where we are struggling. They've been liquidising and cost cutting since January. This window it's just been more obvious. I don't think they're trying as hard as possible to weaken the team, I think they're trying as hard as possible cut losses, to get more out of a bloated underachieving squad (Hammill, Gobern, Vaughn). Granted, it doesn't exactly look at first glance as out and out strengthening - I'm on the fence about the relative state of the squad, I'll be honest - but those three above were/are an expensive waste of space. And there's a big difference between squeezing the most out of our budget (an admittedly risky strategy) and "preparing for league one".
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Post by Essex Terrier on Sept 1, 2015 20:24:34 GMT 1
I feel sure there is a limit of five loan players in a match day squad ,. if that is the case we arn,t bringing too many more in are we, as they won,t even be sat on the bench. I agree with selling JB for that amount though, too good to refuse. I sound like a broken record but think this is the biggest issue now. We still need a striker, right back, centre back, and poss a more direct replacement for butts than Patterson. Play those alongside Carayol and Huws and put Patterson on the bench and that makes 7 loan players. We really thought this through didn't we!!!! Doh!!!!!! Yeah!! Because Hoyle couldn't run a pissup in a brewery whereas you are a self made multi millionaire!! Hang on......
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Post by davethesprout on Sept 1, 2015 20:27:30 GMT 1
Whatever you say Dean is preparing us for League 1 so be it but at least be honest. Can you imagine the morale in the club right now? We've sold 2 of our best players and how that strengthens us God knows, but we can live in hope as always !!!y
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Post by morleyterrier on Sept 1, 2015 20:27:20 GMT 1
I trust his last Managerial appointment to get us relegated. That's trust.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 20:28:24 GMT 1
I'm as disappointed as anybody about the sale of Butterfield, not so much Hammill, and I'd be happy if we could get Vaughan's wages off our balance sheet - but I do have to say that the reactions of a small, but growing, minority on here is very poor and a tad immature "I want it and I want it NOW !" We've had everything from Hoyle has given up, we're selling the family silver, we're planning for Division 1,and even the suggestion that Dean Hoyle doesn't care anymore and lies to supporters.I've not seen a shred of evidence for any of this, other than that Mr Hoyle won't splash out another £10 million of his own money I'm not going to go in to the well-documented factual bit about how much Dean Hoyle has personally done for this club - that's been explained numerous times before - but I'd merely like to say that when he says that the money will be re-invested in the club I believe him totally. I'm old enough to have supported Town under numerous Chairmen, some of whom I wouldn't dream of believing, but when Dean Hoyle says that he is trying to do the best for Town - and that money will be spent - I'm more than happy to trust him. The fact that we seemingly haven't bought a big name today does not mean that we're not working really hard to get the players in - yes, we may have to wait for the loan window to open but we've got weeks before our next match. We could have sold Butterfield a few weeks ago apparently, and that would have given us more time, but I suspect Huddersfield Town got a lot more for him by holding out. In the end as supporters we make a choice - you can either believe that we won't be bringing people in and are planning for relegation or you can be patient, admittedly harder, and wait to see what happens. Whatever you decide I don't really see the need for the vitriol and incredibly childish rubbish that has been aimed at Dean Hoyle. I sometimes think that some of the negative stuff that is so prevalent on this board says so much more about the authors than it does about the club. brilliant post. the crap from some on here is only to be expected .we will see what develops but whatever critism of dean hoyle is one thing is for sure he has the best intention of the club at heart and i trust him more than the idiots who just spout of without engaging there brains
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Post by niggled on Sept 1, 2015 20:30:01 GMT 1
I sound like a broken record but think this is the biggest issue now. We still need a striker, right back, centre back, and poss a more direct replacement for butts than Patterson. Play those alongside Carayol and Huws and put Patterson on the bench and that makes 7 loan players. We really thought this through didn't we!!!! Doh!!!!!! Yeah!! Because Hoyle couldn't run a pissup in a brewery whereas you are a self made multi millionaire!! Hang on...... wooah there . you go and find a post of me critising dean hoyle,s ability to run a business. I am asking if its true about the maximum loan players in a match day squad is 5, if that,s the case we are not bringing in many more players are we ?.
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Post by Porrohman on Sept 1, 2015 20:34:30 GMT 1
Where will that £35m have got us when we're back in league 1 next year, he might as well have just burnt it Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards He's paid for your ego trip in the championship pal! What ego trip ? I've seen us in this division twice before in the 80's and 90's, it's nowt new to me. He's spent £35m to get us to this point, I'm now worried to death that the decisions made this transfer window will see us back in league 1 which will surely then look like it's been a waste of his money Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 1, 2015 20:34:27 GMT 1
I'm as disappointed as anybody about the sale of Butterfield, not so much Hammill, and I'd be happy if we could get Vaughan's wages off our balance sheet - but I do have to say that the reactions of a small, but growing, minority on here is very poor and a tad immature "I want it and I want it NOW !" We've had everything from Hoyle has given up, we're selling the family silver, we're planning for Division 1,and even the suggestion that Dean Hoyle doesn't care anymore and lies to supporters.I've not seen a shred of evidence for any of this, other than that Mr Hoyle won't splash out another £10 million of his own money I'm not going to go in to the well-documented factual bit about how much Dean Hoyle has personally done for this club - that's been explained numerous times before - but I'd merely like to say that when he says that the money will be re-invested in the club I believe him totally. I'm old enough to have supported Town under numerous Chairmen, some of whom I wouldn't dream of believing, but when Dean Hoyle says that he is trying to do the best for Town - and that money will be spent - I'm more than happy to trust him. The fact that we seemingly haven't bought a big name today does not mean that we're not working really hard to get the players in - yes, we may have to wait for the loan window to open but we've got weeks before our next match. We could have sold Butterfield a few weeks ago apparently, and that would have given us more time, but I suspect Huddersfield Town got a lot more for him by holding out. In the end as supporters we make a choice - you can either believe that we won't be bringing people in and are planning for relegation or you can be patient, admittedly harder, and wait to see what happens. Whatever you decide I don't really see the need for the vitriol and incredibly childish rubbish that has been aimed at Dean Hoyle. I sometimes think that some of the negative stuff that is so prevalent on this board says so much more about the authors than it does about the club. So what do you think is going to happen to the £8m the club has just made by selling our most valuable assets? It certainly isn't getting invested back into the team and that's no accident. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how blinkered. What do YOU think is going to happen to it?
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Post by davethesprout on Sept 1, 2015 20:35:10 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle has spent 38 million and just got back 9 million. There comes a time when that money he spent can't be used as an excuse for dismantling the team He has his fault`s` !! Think they could have said no to derby ! Every other club said no to the player`s we wanted to sign Think he say`s` yes too quickly & i don`t` think Butterfield would have refused to play for Town ! Smithies did not wan`t to go don`t think it is unreasonable the fan`s are unhappy !
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,167
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Post by wigster on Sept 1, 2015 20:34:54 GMT 1
we're planning for Division 1 That's been my gut feeling for a while now. Nothing wrong with thinking ahead given the drop in attendances. I presume 3pipe that taking a line of my post out of context so that it implies the opposite of what I said was meant to be hilarious, rather than anything else. I suppose I should be pleased that it didn't contain the swearing and personal insults that so many posts on this board nowadays have but it was perhaps a smidgeon childish .
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Post by Essex Terrier on Sept 1, 2015 20:35:47 GMT 1
Yeah!! Because Hoyle couldn't run a pissup in a brewery whereas you are a self made multi millionaire!! Hang on...... wooah there . you go and find a post of me critising dean hoyle,s ability to run a business. I am asking if its true about the maximum loan players in a match day squad is 5, if that,s the case we are not bringing in many more players are we ?. If I apologized and told you I "quoted" the wrong button, would that help? Stupid? Maybe, but true!!
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Post by ACW on Sept 1, 2015 20:38:54 GMT 1
I feel sure there is a limit of five loan players in a match day squad ,. if that is the case we arn,t bringing too many more in are we, as they won,t even be sat on the bench. I agree with selling JB for that amount though, too good to refuse. I sound like a broken record but think this is the biggest issue now. We still need a striker, right back, centre back, and poss a more direct replacement for butts than Patterson. Play those alongside Carayol and Huws and put Patterson on the bench and that makes 7 loan players. We really thought this through didn't we!!!! Doh!!!!!! Whatever the rights and wrongs of what has happened over the summer, this is my big concern - some of the obvious weaknesses in the first team have not been addressed. Perhaps Cranie will be the answer at centre back (he looked good on Sat), and perhaps the new lads will provide more creativity in midfield/out wide, but we desperately need another striker and a right back. I will reserve judgement on the new signings until I've seen them in action - they may well improve us going forward - but I still worry about who will put the ball in the back of the net if Wells isn't firing. We desperately need goals and I don't see where they are coming from. For what its worth I would never question Dean Hoyle's integrity and what he has done/is doing for our club, but there are questions about how we have gone about our business this summer. What we need is a reasoned debate without the histrionics and to hope we can bring in a couple of decent loan signings to plug the obvious gaps in the first team.
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Post by ColchTerrier on Sept 1, 2015 20:39:52 GMT 1
I hate these 'we're preparing for League 1' comments. Absolutely BS!!! Deano wants To finish around 10th this year and would always love a crack at the Prem.
I'm as disappointed as anyone with regards to today - but trust in Deano! He will be as disappointed as us all to loose JB.
My guy thought is that he is still unsure about Powell himself, the players we have currently are still better than being a bottom 3 team. The problem lies with CP and his negative tactics, and I think Deano is starting to think this also. Save the money for Jan in which that time we will see if Powell changes his approach - if he does he can have a chance to spend. Or if he carries on as we are he will be gone and a more attacking manager who will bring out results will get the chance. We have the players to still finish mid-table IMO - they are just not getting used right...at all!!
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Post by terrierpark on Sept 1, 2015 20:41:50 GMT 1
I cant see anything positive from the actions of late and we have been lied to. Reinvesting in the squad is not and never will be loan players , because investing in the squad is about addressing the concerns and building. Why did we get a winger in on loan...he was not required we all know why he brought the midfielder from wigan in and suddenly there is no time to spend the money because Its deadline day, what a coincidence,we couldnt see that coming could we? We have weakness front and back a striker we cant play because it will trigger a contract extension in james Vaughan and i guess a squad of rag tag players who will be wondering what the hell is going on. Its certainly going to be intersting but when we get tonked whats betting its the fans fault? It certainly wont be he who cant be criticised. Shit day for Town Fans when the needs of the team are ignored.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 1, 2015 20:42:24 GMT 1
Not being funny but ... Where the fuck is the striker?
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Thwarting Dog
Steve Kindon Terrier
UP THE TERRIERS, PLAY LIKE TERRIERS, YOU WON'T GO FAR WRONG
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Post by Thwarting Dog on Sept 1, 2015 20:43:42 GMT 1
In Dean Hoylston we trust! In Dean Hoylston we trust! I, like your avatar, in Claude Hills
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Post by Giggity on Sept 1, 2015 20:46:52 GMT 1
Can't help but feel let down by Hoyle today. He said the Smithies money would be reinvested which softened the blow of losing our longest serving player. 10 days later and we haven't bought a player. Instead we have entered into 3 loans for which we will develop another club's player. No resale or value in such a deal. Instead we will alert other clubs to their form or persuade the parent club not to part with their in-form player should they succeed. Flop and we're stuck with an uncommitted player on our payroll who couldn't give a flying duck about Huddersfield's welfare.
This didn't happen overnight. We had 10 days to prepare for this. And that's without even mentioning Butterfield's transfer...
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