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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 20:12:36 GMT 1
Post by philincalifornia on Mar 6, 2016 20:12:36 GMT 1
My biggest issue with him is his lack of attempt at jumping for headers. Some on here say it is because he is clever and reads the flight better yet don't explain why he gets beaten way too often by smaller players. The whole time I've been watching Town we've never had two quality centre halves together. At the moment we've one in Lynch and if we can find another to play alongside him then we could be on to something good. I'd keep Hudson on as back up and for his impact in the dressing room
The last paragraph got me rattling my brain regarding having two really good centre halves playing together for us.
Am sorry to say it is probably over 30 years ago when we had Big Sam and Paul Jones.
I'm surprised we haven't had anyone on here saying we only needed one when John Coddington was playing
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 20:13:53 GMT 1
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Post by workshyfop on Mar 6, 2016 20:13:53 GMT 1
I'd give him another year. From what I've seen and heard, I don't think he's as bad as some people make out, he's a very good influence and can help the youngsters, leads as captain by setting a good example, is a great ambassador for the club. As a player, he'll have to fight for his place like everyone else and we know Wagner likes to rotate and our squad isn't the biggest.
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Post by ACW on Mar 6, 2016 20:21:38 GMT 1
Wonder if we could find a role for him as a defensive coach? I know he's not the player he was now, but he was a very good defender for most of his career and when his career starts to wind down, and he becomes more a bit player, it would be a shame to waste his experience by simply letting him go. Just a thought.
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htfc63
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 20:31:34 GMT 1
Post by htfc63 on Mar 6, 2016 20:31:34 GMT 1
Hopefully we get at least one new centre back in and then he can act as cover. Unfortunately not only is he slow now but what will he be like in another year when he is still in contract. I suppose if he is prepared to stay on a reasonable salary then yes we could use his experience off the field and occasionally on it.. With no loans after January next year we need a good squad to cover injuries and suspensions and every squad player will have to pull their weight
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 6, 2016 21:15:01 GMT 1
Really disappointed if we're giving him another contract. Hes a really poor player IMO. A standout defensive liability. The slowest player Ive ever seen in the professional game who also can't jump.
So he might be a squad player next season- which means without game time he'll be even slower and less mobile ( if thats possible) should we need him.
Love a lot of what Wagners doing, but IMO keeping hudson is a real mistake- hes been a desperately poor signing for the wages hes cost, so why throw many more tens of thousands at a past it player?
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 21:35:12 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 21:35:12 GMT 1
I just think keeping him would beg the question - so who else are we going to look to replace in order to develop? If he was as gooder captain as everyone makes out, why do we look absolute crap in defence so often? The guy has been a good pro, and probably a good captain but for gods sake surely there's better, quicker, more dominant and better footballers out there we could bring in. Imo, striving to keep hold of him shows a worrying lack of ambition.
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 21:38:33 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 21:38:33 GMT 1
My biggest issue with him is his lack of attempt at jumping for headers. Some on here say it is because he is clever and reads the flight better yet don't explain why he gets beaten way too often by smaller players. The whole time I've been watching Town we've never had two quality centre halves together. At the moment we've one in Lynch and if we can find another to play alongside him then we could be on to something good. I'd keep Hudson on as back up and for his impact in the dressing room I don't think it's because he's clever, he didn't look clever when Martin scored yesterday. He's just not very good in the air.
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 21:39:44 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 21:39:44 GMT 1
My biggest issue with him is his lack of attempt at jumping for headers. Some on here say it is because he is clever and reads the flight better yet don't explain why he gets beaten way too often by smaller players. The whole time I've been watching Town we've never had two quality centre halves together. At the moment we've one in Lynch and if we can find another to play alongside him then we could be on to something good. I'd keep Hudson on as back up and for his impact in the dressing room
The last paragraph got me rattling my brain regarding having two really good centre halves playing together for us.
Am sorry to say it is probably over 30 years ago when we had Big Sam and Paul Jones.
[br Lucketti and Gray Gray and Dyson Clarke and Morrison
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 21:56:06 GMT 1
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Post by hypotenuse on Mar 6, 2016 21:56:06 GMT 1
The last paragraph got me rattling my brain regarding having two really good centre halves playing together for us.
Am sorry to say it is probably over 30 years ago when we had Big Sam and Paul Jones.
Can you remember when somebody Hopkins, was it Jeff broke Burke's leg and big Sam lost it, big time. Awful challenge, you heard it snap in the big main terrace. Was at that game - worst challenge I think I have ever seen in all the time I have watched pro football. 3 sent off that day and we equalised in 8th minute if added on time I think Do agree with someone who said Allardyce and Jones possibly best centre back pair in last 40 years - maybe Ellam and Cherry better prior to that
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Post by raggytash on Mar 6, 2016 22:04:06 GMT 1
The last paragraph got me rattling my brain regarding having two really good centre halves playing together for us.
Am sorry to say it is probably over 30 years ago when we had Big Sam and Paul Jones.
[br Lucketti and Gray Gray and Dyson Clarke and Morrison Hanvey and Sutton best I have seen.
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 22:06:16 GMT 1
Post by ricksta on Mar 6, 2016 22:06:16 GMT 1
Can you remember when somebody Hopkins, was it Jeff broke Burke's leg and big Sam lost it, big time. Awful challenge, you heard it snap in the big main terrace. Was at that game - worst challenge I think I have ever seen in all the time I have watched pro football. 3 sent off that day and we equalised in 8th minute if added on time I think Do agree with someone who said Allardyce and Jones possibly best centre back pair in last 40 years - maybe Ellam and Cherry better prior to that Hanvey and Sutton (not that I disagree with Allardyce/Jones and Ellam/Cherry)?
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 22:38:46 GMT 1
Post by terrierpark on Mar 6, 2016 22:38:46 GMT 1
I wouldnt either but still now we know why we apparently dont need a ctre back ( that many of us have felt was required for over a year). YAWN Well there is your answer you cleverdick.. Truth always niggles doesnt it to those that dont like the sound of it!
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ben1987
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Hudson
Mar 6, 2016 22:46:19 GMT 1
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Post by ben1987 on Mar 6, 2016 22:46:19 GMT 1
Well there is your answer you cleverdick.. Truth always niggles doesnt it to those that dont like the sound of it! So you honestly think that town are looking to extend Hudsons contract so they don't have to buy a new CB next season? Get yourself to bed you melt.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 0:30:13 GMT 1
Post by impact on Mar 7, 2016 0:30:13 GMT 1
Well there is your answer you cleverdick.. Truth always niggles doesnt it to those that dont like the sound of it! So you honestly think that town are looking to extend Hudsons contract so they don't have to buy a new CB next season? Get yourself to bed you melt. In fairness I do, just not to the cynical levels he does. Why spend money on 2 centre halves, which would more than likely mean 2 average centre halves, when you can spend more money on 1 and keep another as backup?
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Mar 7, 2016 0:39:21 GMT 1
If the decision was mine, I wouldn't renew Hudson but I will not castigate the club if they choose to do so. I am in no doubt that his professionalism and leadership off the field was invaluable to smooth the transition and the squad's buying in to Wagner's increased training regime.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 0:56:25 GMT 1
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Post by shawsie on Mar 7, 2016 0:56:25 GMT 1
I just think keeping him would beg the question - so who else are we going to look to replace in order to develop? If he was as gooder captain as everyone makes out, why do we look absolute crap in defence so often? The guy has been a good pro, and probably a good captain but for gods sake surely there's better, quicker, more dominant and better footballers out there we could bring in. Imo, striving to keep hold of him shows a worrying lack of ambition. We look crap in defence because collectively and individually we have inconsistent players and little depth. There is nobody in the academy coming through who is ready right now and we have had to sell Wallace because he wasn't good enough, Davidson isn't any great shakes, crainie nothing more than a stand in, smith for all his improvement under Wagner still makes too many errors and lynch despite being head and shoulders above the rest still has some really poor games. That's without including Hudson who is now past his best. It's wrong to criticise Hudson for not being a very good club captain on and off the field. We desperately desperately need 2 good full backs - they are huge in this system and style we play and the contrast between Christie and Olson and our two on sat was stark. Hopefully the first of these is a success as I believe he may be announced shortly from overseas.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 10:05:39 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 7, 2016 10:05:39 GMT 1
We don't desperately need another right back. Smith has been one of our better players for a while now, and in Cranie we have a ready made replacement whos also a good standard.
Left back, then yeah, we need 2. Davidson isn't up to this level. Has the odd good game but too many poor ones to be the answer going forward. Think theres a young kid called Senior coming through who is very highly rated and could fill one of the left back slots.
At centre back, letting Wallace go was a mistake IMO. Hes a better player than Hudson. He can run and is better in the air. Wallace had the odd mare but he also had some really good games and at his age, he was only going to improve- Hudson is only going to get even worse. Lynch hardy ever has a poor game anymore. Consistency used to be his main fault, but hes largely solved it now and Cranie is a solid competent and assured looking player. If we need a 'back up' then I find it astonishing that we would choose Hudson to be that ahead of Cranie!
But overall i disagree that 'we look so crap in defence' in general. We actually restrict the opposition to relatively few chances. The difference is they take a good proportion of them whereas we don't of ours.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 11:17:53 GMT 1
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Mar 7, 2016 11:17:53 GMT 1
Can you remember when somebody Hopkins, was it Jeff broke Burke's leg and big Sam lost it, big time. Awful challenge, you heard it snap in the big main terrace. Was at that game - worst challenge I think I have ever seen in all the time I have watched pro football. 3 sent off that day and we equalised in 8th minute if added on time I think Do agree with someone who said Allardyce and Jones possibly best centre back pair in last 40 years - maybe Ellam and Cherry better prior to that Agree with Allardyce and Paul Jones as the best pairing in the last 40 years. Paul Jones was very good and Allardyce was Player of the Year in his only season with us. Cherry was the best central defender I've seen at Town and he carried Ellam who for me was a bit of a donkey.
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 7, 2016 11:30:14 GMT 1
Jonesy was the best I've seen for Town
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 11:34:23 GMT 1
We don't desperately need another right back. Smith has been one of our better players for a while now, and in Cranie we have a ready made replacement whos also a good standard. Left back, then yeah, we need 2. Davidson isn't up to this level. Has the odd good game but too many poor ones to be the answer going forward. Think theres a young kid called Senior coming through who is very highly rated and could fill one of the left back slots. At centre back, letting Wallace go was a mistake IMO. Hes a better player than Hudson. He can run and is better in the air. Wallace had the odd mare but he also had some really good games and at his age, he was only going to improve- Hudson is only going to get even worse. Lynch hardy ever has a poor game anymore. Consistency used to be his main fault, but hes largely solved it now and Cranie is a solid competent and assured looking player. If we need a 'back up' then I find it astonishing that we would choose Hudson to be that ahead of Cranie! But overall i disagree that 'we look so crap in defence' in general. We actually restrict the opposition to relatively few chances. The difference is they take a good proportion of them whereas we don't of ours. What if Smith breaks down and is out for 3 months next season, no emergency loan window anymore! We need two players in every position and it's a season too soon for Hanson after viewing him in person. Dempsey has looked iffy there too, plus whilst Smith has done OK and has improved a lot over the last 4 months - he's not ideally suited to the way Wagner plays, as your full backs are hugely vital in attacking play. Smith is a limited full back. As for Wallace, he wasn't good enough and I doubt he'll ever be a Championship player - DW wouldn't have let him go if he had rated him. In fact one of the few that did was Ross Wilson, who loved his work ethic. He was still a poor Championship defender. We'll need 4 signings in defence this summer.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 11:53:25 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 7, 2016 11:53:25 GMT 1
We play Cranie there. He was excellent at right back earlier this season.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 12:02:06 GMT 1
Cranie hasn't played at RB since Wagner's arrival, choosing Dempsey instead because your full back provide the width in the formation we play and need to have attacking intent. Both Cranie and smith are limited full backs and Cranie is definitely not suited to that role.
Because next season there isn't an emergency window we'll need two players in every position, as I posted above. You cannot go into the season with 7 defenders and lose Smith and a CB. The likes of Boyle and Wilkinson aren't good enough either and I haven't seen how Joe Wright is getting on at accrington so we will most likely be looking at 4 signings in defence. God forbid if we give Hudson a new deal too.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 12:24:38 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 7, 2016 12:24:38 GMT 1
Smith gets forward very well. His final ball is improving ( which it needed to) . Fair enough Cranie doesn't attack as much but as cover he offers a solid defensive option- and defending is the primary role of a full back don't forget. Dempsey is another option as is Whitehead who played a lot at right back for Boro.
So whilst every position could be strengthened, all in all right back is one of our least priorities IMO.
Id definitely release Hudson and possibly Davidson ( who might be worth keeping at back up depending on Senior's level). Id give Cranie a new deal. But then we need a starting XI left back, a starting XI centre back, a back up centre back. That will do IMO.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 12:46:18 GMT 1
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Mar 7, 2016 12:46:18 GMT 1
I know Hudson is a great influence on the dressing room and a popular figure at the club, but that ain't enough to warrant another contract IMO. He has good games but overall he is just not good enough for where we want to be, as is Davidson.
The only way I'd be giving Hudson a contract was if it was bargain wages
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buckers
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Post by buckers on Mar 7, 2016 13:32:48 GMT 1
Hudson is 33 so is on the downward arc of his career so no I wouldn't renew his contract.
Davidson is 24 what's his excuse for being woefully poor? I've seen him have one good game and that was against Charlton.
I'd still have Hudson in my team over Davidson.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 13:49:57 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 13:49:57 GMT 1
Smith gets forward very well. His final ball is improving ( which it needed to) . Fair enough Cranie doesn't attack as much but as cover he offers a solid defensive option- and defending is the primary role of a full back don't forget. Dempsey is another option as is Whitehead who played a lot at right back for Boro. So whilst every position could be strengthened, all in all right back is one of our least priorities IMO. Id definitely release Hudson and possibly Davidson ( who might be worth keeping at back up depending on Senior's level). Id give Cranie a new deal. But then we need a starting XI left back, a starting XI centre back, a back up centre back. That will do IMO. If CP was still gaffer then Cranie would be 2nd choice RB. But what is required of the full-backs in the formation that DW plays is the ability to attack. You need a Jack Hunt rather than a Martin Cranie. Dempsey isn't cut out for that job defensively even as cover and Whitehead is too slow and wouldn't make the mileage up and down the wing. The full-backs in DW's side are arguably the most important players and probably cover the most ground. Next season the are only 3 'first-teamers' contracted to the club in defence. Smith, Lynch and Davidson - with Cranie having an option for another year (I'd take it). I too would release Hudson, past it. Given that'll you'll need two players in every position and that there is no longer an emergency loan window then you need 4 defenders in summer. Hanson, Senior and Wright/Kane can provide further cover is there is a crisis.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 15:24:43 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 7, 2016 15:24:43 GMT 1
The way DW plays you also need pace at the back, yet he seems keen on offering a new contract to the least pacey player in the world!
I think you do Cranie a disservice. Hes a good footballer. Comfortable on the ball, even has a trick or two, and has reasonable pace. Im sure if DW played him at right back and instructed him to get forward and put in crosses, then he could do it. I also think Dempsey looked ok in the role, both defensively and going forward considering it was largely new to him.
Its down to priorities. If we have enough money then sure, bring in a great right back. But we don't have unlimited funds and IMO we have far more concerning positions to strengthen ahead of right back.
We NEED another keeper. We NEED a left back. We NEED two centre backs. We NEED an attacking midfielder ( or two) We NEED a striker ( or two)
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 15:32:17 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 15:32:17 GMT 1
The way DW plays you also need pace at the back, yet he seems keen on offering a new contract to the least pacey player in the world! I think you do Cranie a disservice. Hes a good footballer. Comfortable on the ball, even has a trick or two, and has reasonable pace. Im sure if DW played him at right back and instructed him to get forward and put in crosses, then he could do it. I also think Dempsey looked ok in the role, both defensively and going forward considering it was largely new to him. Its down to priorities. If we have enough money then sure, bring in a great right back. But we don't have unlimited funds and IMO we have far more concerning positions to strengthen ahead of right back. We NEED another keeper. We NEED a left back. We NEED two centre backs. We NEED an attacking midfielder ( or two) We NEED a striker ( or two) Cranie is a decent footballer, an adept CB/DM. But not the creative full back we need. GK, RB, 2xCB, LB CM, 2/3xAM 1/2xST is what I expect in summer given we'll need a bigger squad due to no cover anymore from the abolishment of emergency loans. I think our squad of first teamers who are contracted to Town past next season stands at Murphy; Smith, Lynch, Davidson; Billing, Whitehead, Dempsey; Lolley, Bunn, Scanz; Wells, Hiwula. One-year options on Matmour (wouldn't take) Cranie (would) and Hogg (would).
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 18:22:51 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 7, 2016 18:22:51 GMT 1
We don't desperately need another right back. Smith has been one of our better players for a while now, and in Cranie we have a ready made replacement whos also a good standard. Left back, then yeah, we need 2. Davidson isn't up to this level. Has the odd good game but too many poor ones to be the answer going forward. Think theres a young kid called Senior coming through who is very highly rated and could fill one of the left back slots. At centre back, letting Wallace go was a mistake IMO. Hes a better player than Hudson. He can run and is better in the air. Wallace had the odd mare but he also had some really good games and at his age, he was only going to improve- Hudson is only going to get even worse. Lynch hardy ever has a poor game anymore. Consistency used to be his main fault, but hes largely solved it now and Cranie is a solid competent and assured looking player. If we need a 'back up' then I find it astonishing that we would choose Hudson to be that ahead of Cranie! But overall i disagree that 'we look so crap in defence' in general. We actually restrict the opposition to relatively few chances. The difference is they take a good proportion of them whereas we don't of ours. Agree with a lot of that, but as much as Cranie may be a better player than Davidson, I don't know how you can see him as a better fullback in our system. He's adequate cover in a conventional 4:4:2, but i just can't see him regularly pushing high upfield the way we play. To some degree, I'm not even sure if what Smith and Davidson are being asked to do is exposing them, as opposed to it always being their error when we perceive they are out of position.
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Hudson
Mar 7, 2016 18:31:29 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 7, 2016 18:31:29 GMT 1
Smith gets forward very well. His final ball is improving ( which it needed to) . Fair enough Cranie doesn't attack as much but as cover he offers a solid defensive option- and defending is the primary role of a full back don't forget. Dempsey is another option as is Whitehead who played a lot at right back for Boro. So whilst every position could be strengthened, all in all right back is one of our least priorities IMO. Id definitely release Hudson and possibly Davidson ( who might be worth keeping at back up depending on Senior's level). Id give Cranie a new deal. But then we need a starting XI left back, a starting XI centre back, a back up centre back. That will do IMO. If CP was still gaffer then Cranie would be 2nd choice RB. But what is required of the full-backs in the formation that DW plays is the ability to attack. You need a Jack Hunt rather than a Martin Cranie. Dempsey isn't cut out for that job defensively even as cover and Whitehead is too slow and wouldn't make the mileage up and down the wing. The full-backs in DW's side are arguably the most important players and probably cover the most ground. Next season the are only 3 'first-teamers' contracted to the club in defence. Smith, Lynch and Davidson - with Cranie having an option for another year (I'd take it). I too would release Hudson, past it. Given that'll you'll need two players in every position and that there is no longer an emergency loan window then you need 4 defenders in summer. Hanson, Senior and Wright/Kane can provide further cover is there is a crisis. I think I've underestimated how many we need, because of the number of loans and not realising about the changes in the system. However, I still don't think we 'need' two players for every position. As I've said before, we're not battling it out in Europe and potentially two cups like the teams we all know. A few can comfortably cover a number of positions, whilst we maybe need to consider the academy player (e.g. Senior or Wright as the immediate cover as opposed to the last resort). On that note- has anyone an idea if Wright has done well enough to be fighting for a place next year?
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