Referees

[drayltonboy (independent)]

Devil's Advocate here.

This is our highest position in years, so expectations are higher than ever. If a decision doesn't go our way, whereas in previous seasons it may have been a temporary moan, then move on, this season it is now full toys out of the pram if any contentious decision goes against us.

Perhaps it is a case of fans being bigger cry babies that S season, rather than refs being poorer.

Just offering a different opinion

[Nickhudds.UTT]

The liner should hang his head in shame too, useless.

[Porrohman]

Dec 10, 2016 22:57:35 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Just be grateful he didn't send the keeper off!!

I bet he's gutted he didn't, as his decision won us the game and he was doing his best to lose it for us all game

Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards

[terryya]

Although I admire Wagner's attitude on not commenting on refs in his post match interviews I think he needs to start banging on all week about the 100% wrong ones. With us being on Sky this week they'll pick up on it and hopefully it'll be in the back of a ref's mind next time he has a decision to make.

[Bassingham Terrier]

Dec 11, 2016 10:52:13 GMT 1 terryya said:

Although I admire Wagner's attitude on not commenting on refs in his post match interviews I think he needs to start banging on all week about the 100% wrong ones. With us being on Sky this week they'll pick up on it and hopefully it'll be in the back of a ref's mind next time he has a decision to make.

Do you really think that refs watch/read about their performances or how much a team/club moans about them?
I can't believe that they read anything about themselves and certainly don't go into games thinking about 'cheating' a team.
The only time that I think refs could be 'nervous' is when they've been given an earful by a manager or coach at half-time or after a game and then find that they are reffing the same team soon afterwards.

[Henry Mcgee]

Dec 10, 2016 20:20:59 GMT 1 Doc Halladay 32 said:

Here's 3 consecutive pics of today's handball incident

I reckon you'd feel very unlucky to have a penalty given against you for that.

[terryya]

Dec 11, 2016 11:21:37 GMT 1 Bassingham Terrier said:

Dec 11, 2016 10:52:13 GMT 1 terryya said:

Although I admire Wagner's attitude on not commenting on refs in his post match interviews I think he needs to start banging on all week about the 100% wrong ones. With us being on Sky this week they'll pick up on it and hopefully it'll be in the back of a ref's mind next time he has a decision to make.

Do you really think that refs watch/read about their performances or how much a team/club moans about them?
I can't believe that they read anything about themselves and certainly don't go into games thinking about 'cheating' a team.
The only time that I think refs could be 'nervous' is when they've been given an earful by a manager or coach at half-time or after a game and then find that they are reffing the same team soon afterwards.

I'm pretty certain that most of them will be sports fans who watch and read about sport in general. If you read/hear about a team who have obvious decisions go against them then it's going to enter your thinking if you have a decision to make, especially if the game is on TV with all the angles and replays.

It's pretty much a standard technique used by managers/coaches of all sports, put a doubt in the officials minds before the game even starts.

[shawsie]

TBH I'm sick of hearing how tough their job is, they are better than they've ever been etc which gets spun by the referees themselves in the media.
They don't get the big decisions right enough - too many want to be the centre of attention. I know they have off days but Stroud had a shocker yesterday as did the numpty in the previous home game.
I've barely seen a good one all season and it's got to the stage when you comment how decent a ref is as an exception - e.g. Blackburn last week when I thought he was decent enough.
The players don't help them that's for sure but how freeman stayed on the pitch I will never know, never mind the bloody keeper!!!
And for my last gripe.....thanks Lee Johnson you little piss ant! By not throwing the ball back you incensed the crowd who helped the players see it through!!!Absolutely disgraceful with only 9 men on and you got what you deserved - nowt!!!!

[ram]

Back to the keeper hand ball,the sky commentator said,and I quote "how the keeper stayed on the pitch,I,ll never know".Sums it up nicely for me.

[Bassingham Terrier]

Letter duly sent to the FA ...

"Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to you to seek clarification over an incident which occurred during a game that I attended yesterday. I know that the referee in question will never be held accountable and have to defend his decision in public, so I would like to know what is the official line on one of his decisions.

In the 49th minute of the Huddersfield Town vs Bristol City game the Bristol goalkeeper, Frank Fielding, came outside his penalty area and handled the ball, preventing Huddersfield striker Nahki Wells from poking the ball past him and being clear on goal. The referee, Mr Keith Stroud, subsequently consulted his linesman – who had flagged furiously to indicate a foul – and then elected to only yellow-card Fielding. Can you please tell me why this is the case? Should Fielding not have been sent from the field after denying a goal-scoring opportunity by handling outside his area?

I’m sure that you will understand that it is decisions like this which leave fans furious week after week, especially as we are never told WHY your officials come to some of these amazing conclusions.

Looking forward to your response with eager anticipation,

Yours,"


Waits with baited breath ...

[terriersyndrome]

If they say poor decisions even themselves out over a season then I'm fully expecting a shit load of dodgy decisions go our way in the 2nd half of the season!

Yet again the ref was a joke yesterday!

[Deleted]

I think after looking at the game yesterday, the Ref must admit he got it wrong with the keeper decision.

Had that been a defender knocking it with his arm after a bad bounce & Wells chasing it through I'm pretty sure it would have been a red card decision. What doesn't help is that it was the keeper & when they 'handball' something it puts a little more doubt in the mind.

Most keepers when handling outside the box do it via a mistake, natural reaction (albeit some will play on that...). Yesterday was not like that, he made a conscious decision to handle it after getting totally screwed by the pace of Wells. He was very very lucky to stay on the pitch & I'm sure Lee Johnson is happier (overall) that his keeper isn't banned for the next game.

I do hope that the Referees association use this incident to make sure that this is always seen as a red card next time. Using it as an example to remove any doubt in the officials heads...

[Doc Halladay 32]

Dec 11, 2016 6:21:14 GMT 1 morleyterrier said:

Dec 11, 2016 4:33:47 GMT 1 Doc Halladay 32 said:

It is simply incompetence and not a conspiracy!

We did get some decisions go our way, Hefele wasn't fouled by Hefele and they should have had a corner from the one that hit Billing before going out of play.

If you're a Town fan you remember the non sending off - If you're a Bristol fan you remember the Abraham incorrect call back when clean through after not fouling Hefele!

We are on the wrong end of the stick of the bigger decisions at the moment but conspiracies are something we rightly scoff at when pixie mentions them.

I have posted previously and agree that we football fans do tend to see things in our favour as it were. What's going on with Refs and Town though even the 'Independants' are seeing it (pundits for Wigan game called two penalties not given, Curbishley, keeper should have walked) etc.

Re the Billing one, I can't renember that?. Re the foul on Hefele, from the Kilner bank and camera side, I hear what you are saying. If though you were sat where I was right in front of it in the Riverside from the other angle, Abraham's foot was ridiculously high and he did catch him. Infact, he could have walked too, it would have been a bit harsh though.

I still maintain that there is more to it than incompetence or we would get our fair share of incompetent decisions and we aren't.

But as I posted it ain't conspiracy either so why, why does it keep happening to us?. I think perhaps as I posted previously we are just a nice Club with a nice Manager and it is easier to piss us off than some of the other Clubs and Managers in the League with that call the Ref is making at the time and what fall-out he may be subject to if he gets it wrong.

So conspiracy?, no!, sub-conscious thought process influencing these decisions going against us?, possibly. I don't know.

Look, I am trying to derive some logic from the illogical which ain't easy!. Either way, something ain't right here with the constant key decisions going against us. I don't know how we stop it though

I'm sorry Morley but that is just tosh or complete homerism! Hefele even had his back to the Riverside stand.

Anyway those of us with a camera view also benefitted from a slow motion replay of the incident which showed Hefele's and Abraham's feet to be equally high but Abraham's foot cleanly contacted the ball and Hefele's foot contacted Abraham's foot after abraham had nicked the ball so if there was a foul it would have been in Bristol's favour but Abraham's first thought was that he was clean through so he naturally carried on and Hefele fell to the floor claiming a foul obviously knowing he was beaten. To say that Abraham "could have walked" is ridiculous having seen the slow motion replay.

Check out the match thread comments on here and Bristol's site, made at the time by the camera viewing fans.

From here...

"Finally a bit of luck with a decision. No foul on the Hef."
"My Town bias means I thought Ward would have got there before Abraham.
"Well, he's not the quickest coming off his line so I'm not convinced. Just good to get a decision in our favour in any game at the moment."

Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/102813/bristol-city-match-thread?page=4#ixzz4SX2WKNX8

From their site a few more comments understandably ...

"Shocking decision"
"Tammy ripped off there. He was in the clear."
"******* hell keith stroud"
"Indeed.. Tammy was clean through there. Hudders got away with that one."
"They are certainly good at the amateur dramatics"
"Shit referee, how was that a foul by Abraham, both players foot was as high as the others and Tammy takes the ball cleanly"
"Shocking decision by the ref."
"Tammy wrongly accused of a foul."
"1-1 HT, in many ways lucky for us, but then again if not for awful ref decision could have been 1-2 up"
"how the """" was that a foul by Tammy"

Their site seems on the whole to be very fair and nearly all said later that their keeper should have seen red. And they have a nice facepalm smiley too!

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2016 22:04:04 GMT 1 Bassingham Terrier said:

I know that nobody rates him, or values what he says, but after the match tonight I heard Matt Glennon's comments on the keeper's non-red card and he offered a goalkeeper's view on it. He also pointed out that the rules have changed this season, and he summed it up like this ...
The goalkeeper certainly DID handle outside the area - yellow card.
Why?
Because the rules have changed and it WASN'T a goal-scoring opportunity because the keeper could have kicked it away; he made the wrong decision by handling it. But he could have cleared it, therefore he didn't deny a goal-scoring opportunity.
It seems that the ref only consulted with the Lino about whether or not the keeper could have kicked it.

Glennon is wrong, of course ...

That kind of makes good sense.

But also doesn't.

It implies that a defender who maybe could block a shot by heading it, but instead intentionally punches it clear wouldn't get a red card as it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity because he COULD have headed it??

[Deleted]

It's one of the biggest problems in the sport yet the powers that be will not address it like they have in other sports..."because football is sacred" mantra. There's endless stoppages all the time anyway and every week points incorrectly distributed due to referee errors.

Referees should all be ex pros and be accountable for their mistakes with fines, reprimands and ultimately demotion, just like in all other areas of elite sport.

Then have the 2nd referees in front of tv screen to eradicate any howlers like in cricket. We could either give this power to refs or a review system to each captain. It's not hard to implement and everyone would get used to it soon enough and we can stop losing points like the 3 we should've had against Wigan.

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2016 11:58:39 GMT 1 Bassingham Terrier said:

Letter duly sent to the FA ...

"Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to you to seek clarification over an incident which occurred during a game that I attended yesterday. I know that the referee in question will never be held accountable and have to defend his decision in public, so I would like to know what is the official line on one of his decisions.

In the 49th minute of the Huddersfield Town vs Bristol City game the Bristol goalkeeper, Frank Fielding, came outside his penalty area and handled the ball, preventing Huddersfield striker Nahki Wells from poking the ball past him and being clear on goal. The referee, Mr Keith Stroud, subsequently consulted his linesman – who had flagged furiously to indicate a foul – and then elected to only yellow-card Fielding. Can you please tell me why this is the case? Should Fielding not have been sent from the field after denying a goal-scoring opportunity by handling outside his area?

I’m sure that you will understand that it is decisions like this which leave fans furious week after week, especially as we are never told WHY your officials come to some of these amazing conclusions.

Looking forward to your response with eager anticipation,

Yours,"


Waits with baited breath ...

Good luck with that.

I asked them why some clubs were allowed to use real time positioning and biometric data to influence in match coaching decisions in clear breach of outside influence rules. They didn't respond.


Back in the day, the Opta stuff was fine as the footage had to be manually analysed post match....but the realtime systems that clubs like Leeds blatantly use nowadays are out and out cheating.

You can see which clubs do it, they have a lump at the top of their backs.

www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10502787/statsports-the-training-technology-used-by-arsenal-man-city-barcelona-and-more

Why are these clubs allowed an unfair advantage?? How can Leeds watch biometric analysis of their players athletic performance to fine tune substitute decisions on the same pitch as Cambridge in the FA Cup. What next, individual ear pieces to receive direct coaching instruction?

[H7]

Dec 11, 2016 11:26:27 GMT 1 Henry Mcgee said:

Dec 10, 2016 20:20:59 GMT 1 Doc Halladay 32 said:

Here's 3 consecutive pics of today's handball incident

I reckon you'd feel very unlucky to have a penalty given against you for that.

Why? It's a deliberate handball in the box in an attempt to stop the ball reaching the goal. The video highlights confirm that.

[Champers]

Dec 11, 2016 11:26:27 GMT 1 Henry Mcgee said:

Dec 10, 2016 20:20:59 GMT 1 Doc Halladay 32 said:

Here's 3 consecutive pics of today's handball incident

I reckon you'd feel very unlucky to have a penalty given against you for that.

Are you on the fucking wind up mate?

You were arguing the other day that the RVLP one against Wednesday was a definite penalty, yet the one above definitely isn't, despite the fact the defender yesterday had far more reaction time and had no discernible reason to actually stick his elbow out?!

[malcolmbrown]

Just watching the highlights.

1. Their goal was miles offside.
2. Their keeper should have been red carded.

We're owed a few decisions if things are going to even themselves up.

[tonytiler]

Been saying it from day one of the season,the standard in this division is similar to premiership a few years ago and the speed and fitness levels have also moved up a few gears.The officials are not fit enough to keep up and are too old in my opinion to be officiating games at this level.It doesn't matter if Town have won or lost I can't recall one decent referee in any of the games I've watched.The one yesterday was utter shite,the spineless bastard needs to have a serious think about his future in the game complete incompetence in my eyes.On the upside we got the points but it could very easily have gone tits up because of this muppet.

[spyinthesky]

Dec 11, 2016 14:06:51 GMT 1 @joseppi1 said:

It's one of the biggest problems in the sport yet the powers that be will not address it like they have in other sports..."because football is sacred" mantra. There's endless stoppages all the time anyway and every week points incorrectly distributed due to referee errors.

Referees should all be ex pros and be accountable for their mistakes with fines, reprimands and ultimately demotion, just like in all other areas of elite sport.

Then have the 2nd referees in front of tv screen to eradicate any howlers like in cricket. We could either give this power to refs or a review system to each captain. It's not hard to implement and everyone would get used to it soon enough and we can stop losing points like the 3 we should've had against Wigan.

I have to disagree with the ex pros as refs.Football is one of the worst sports that the players themselves do not know the rules. It takes a long time to get to the standard required and starting at the lowest level is very important. The decisions yesterday will mark him down depending who was assessing and may or may not alter his career path.
I don't feel convinced that applying different rules in different levels is the right way to go, which TV replays will bring.
When referees reach the highest level they still make less mistakes than the players. Fining would not alter the outcome of a game nor would it help recruiting.
FWIW-Keeper Red Card every day. Handling outside the box is always intentional. I remember sending a keeper off in the first few seconds of a game after consulting my assistant who flagged. It wasn't an enjoyable game to ref after that, including sending off the captain at half time. Choosing the easy option will always come back to bite you.

[Headless Chicken]

Dec 10, 2016 18:22:16 GMT 1 DATM Travel Agent said:

I don't think we should've had any penalties today. The booking for the keeper was utterly outrageous, inexcusable. Bizarrely though, not taking away from the magnitude of the error, it wasn't a bad thing that he wasn't sent off given that he gifted us the winner. We also got extremely lucky in the first half when Abraham got pulled up for a "foul" on Hefele when there was no foul at all. If the ref doesn't give that Abraham is clean through on goal with only Ward to beat. Big errors from the officials on both sides.

I thought Abraham was unlucky a few times with decisions. He won a few 50:50s where our player went down and some refs seem to immediately award a foul if someone ends up on their arse.

On that note, we were pretty quick to go over yesterday, probably as much as some teams we've had a right moan about.

[Headless Chicken]

Dec 10, 2016 20:15:23 GMT 1 Champers said:

Dec 10, 2016 20:11:29 GMT 1 midge said:

It was a strange incident that!

Think their trainer treated one of our players cos there were 2 down but just had a feeling that with 9 men they wouldn't give it back- and they didn't!!!

Tossers. Imagine the crowd reaction if they'd gone straight upfield and scored from that. Doesn't even bear thinking about.

It was gamesmanship from us in the first place, there was nothing up with Hefele.

[Bassingham Terrier]

Dec 11, 2016 17:46:07 GMT 1 Headless Chicken said:

Dec 10, 2016 20:15:23 GMT 1 Champers said:

Tossers. Imagine the crowd reaction if they'd gone straight upfield and scored from that. Doesn't even bear thinking about.

It was gamesmanship from us in the first place, there was nothing up with Hefele.

Yes - I'm going to be unpopular here and say that I'm not keen on Hefele at all.
Bit soft, goes down very easily, doesn't win many headers, and his distribution can be awful.
Then again, on Tuesday he could be a world-beater.

In fact, I could be talking about ANY of the squad couldn't I?

[Henry Mcgee]

Dec 11, 2016 16:27:23 GMT 1 Champers said:

Dec 11, 2016 11:26:27 GMT 1 Henry Mcgee said:

I reckon you'd feel very unlucky to have a penalty given against you for that.

Are you on the fucking wind up mate?

You were arguing the other day that the RVLP one against Wednesday was a definite penalty, yet the one above definitely isn't, despite the fact the defender yesterday had far more reaction time and had no discernible reason to actually stick his elbow out?!

I didn't say that - just saying you'd feel very unlucky.  The guy's turned sideways when the shot's come at him and his elbow has come out a gnat's cock and the ball's struck it.  TV didn't think it was worth showing last night and Wagner didn't mention it either.  VLP against Wednesday - he threw his arms up and the ball hit is elbow - protecting your face or not that's a penalty for me - or are you always allowed to throw your arms up if the ball might be going to hit you and it's okay because your just 'protecting your face'?

For what it's worth I, along with everyone else, agree that the keeper should have walked and also that we've been on the wrong end of some poor decisions lately. But conspiracies?  Writing to the FA?  Think we need to shake our heads a bit.

[Deleted]

Abraham went stoods showing, Hefele didn't. Good decision that one

[Headless Chicken]

Dec 11, 2016 17:50:19 GMT 1 Bassingham Terrier said:

Dec 11, 2016 17:46:07 GMT 1 Headless Chicken said:

It was gamesmanship from us in the first place, there was nothing up with Hefele.

Yes - I'm going to be unpopular here and say that I'm not keen on Hefele at all.
Bit soft, goes down very easily, doesn't win many headers, and his distribution can be awful.
Then again, on Tuesday he could be a world-beater.

In fact, I could be talking about ANY of the squad couldn't I?

I don't really have an issue with his distribution, although he could be braver, as he seems fairly comfortable on the ball.

I do though think he's not yet adapted to the phyisical battle and as I suggested on the match thread, finds himself off balance or in weird positions. He tried to get a piggy back at one point yesterday- what was that about 😂

Having a good old fashioned striker at the club would probably be useful for getting our foreign contingent used to that style of play quicker.

The positive is, hopefully there's plenty of scope for improvement as Hef and Schindler continue to adapt and get used to each other.

[rothwellterrier]

Not sure I've seen it mentioned already but the ref seemed quick to blow for a free kick on the edge of the area, when the ball looped over the top and either kachunga or Wells had drawn the keeper and were just going to lift it over him back into the middle. Surely he could have played an advantage and then brought it back?

[galpharm2400]

Dec 11, 2016 18:08:24 GMT 1 @pointykay said:

Abraham went stoods showing, Hefele didn't. Good decision that one

thats why its a foul..abrahams is jabbing at the ball with his studs at head height, hefele is trying to clear with the top of his boot.. one of the few calls the ref got right for either side yesterday.. see Billing for details..

derby and forest then man utd and spurs have argued every decision today..  it appears that rule is totally arbitory...

[galpharm2400]

Dec 11, 2016 18:01:36 GMT 1 Henry Mcgee said:

Dec 11, 2016 16:27:23 GMT 1 Champers said:

Are you on the fucking wind up mate?

You were arguing the other day that the RVLP one against Wednesday was a definite penalty, yet the one above definitely isn't, despite the fact the defender yesterday had far more reaction time and had no discernible reason to actually stick his elbow out?!

I didn't say that - just saying you'd feel very unlucky.  The guy's turned sideways when the shot's come at him and his elbow has come out a gnat's cock and the ball's struck it.  TV didn't think it was worth showing last night and Wagner didn't mention it either.  VLP against Wednesday - he threw his arms up and the ball hit is elbow - protecting your face or not that's a penalty for me - or are you always allowed to throw your arms up if the ball might be going to hit you and it's okay because your just 'protecting your face'?

For what it's worth I, along with everyone else, agree that the keeper should have walked and also that we've been on the wrong end of some poor decisions lately. But conspiracies?  Writing to the FA?  Think we need to shake our heads a bit.

watching a great many games this season has proved to me that quite a few refs/linos have clearly never, ever played the game. some definitely want their 'afternoon in the sun' and some are just utterly useless at it..

their goal yesterday was allowed because the lino wasnt up with play and guessed in their favour..normally they guess and stick the flag up, which does lead me to believe we are not even getting the 'guesses' at the moment, which is worrying.  The officials have not got a clue and we dont even get the 'homer' decisions?