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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 29, 2016 20:19:56 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind.
I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal.
maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it'
Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped.
theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 20:31:25 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind. I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal. maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it' Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped. theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino. The ref couldn't see the Wells one, he had two players blocking his view and was relying on his assistant. |
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Referees
Nov 29, 2016 20:41:49 GMT 1
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Post by hypotenuse on Nov 29, 2016 20:41:49 GMT 1
I'm generally very supportive of refs and their assistants but they got a couple of big calls badly wrong last night. Commentators and some on here are making excuses for the officials but they were both very clear penalties. Though prem refs aren't perfect, they seem braver with penalty calls. Any prem ref not giving the Wells pen would have booked him for diving if they felt there was no foul.
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Referees
Nov 29, 2016 20:45:03 GMT 1
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Post by impact on Nov 29, 2016 20:45:03 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind. I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal. maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it' Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped. theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino. The ref couldn't see the Wells one, he had two players blocking his view and was relying on his assistant. Doesn't surprise me he found himself in a position where he couldn't see - his positioning was terrible all night. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 29, 2016 21:05:52 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind. I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal. maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it' Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped. theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino. The ref couldn't see the Wells one, he had two players blocking his view and was relying on his assistant. Perhaps but id imagine his gut instinct looking at the desperate lunge of a tackle plus the fact wells was clean through on goal, might have been to give a pen even if he didn't see the contact ( given the likelihood that it was) . But maybe wells's dramatic swan dive persuaded him to go the other way- he will have seen that! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 21:44:36 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind. I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal. maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it' Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped. theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino. When Wells went down i immediately said to the guy next to me, no penalty. Why? Because as you say the arms went up in the air, not a natural thing to do. If you or i went down our immediate instinct would be to put our arms forward to protect us on falling. Wells in my opinion could have stayed on his feet and possibly got a shot away. |
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Post by griffa on Nov 29, 2016 21:50:32 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind. I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal. maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it' Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped. theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino. When Wells went down i immediately said to the guy next to me, no penalty. Why? Because as you say the arms went up in the air, not a natural thing to do. If you or i went down our immediate instinct would be to put our arms forward to protect us on falling. Wells in my opinion could have stayed on his feet and possibly got a shot away. Take a look at the Sky footage re Wells, it was a clear penalty - Wigan player took him out, how could you not see that from the stands - UTT. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 21:59:18 GMT 1
When Wells went down i immediately said to the guy next to me, no penalty. Why? Because as you say the arms went up in the air, not a natural thing to do. If you or i went down our immediate instinct would be to put our arms forward to protect us on falling. Wells in my opinion could have stayed on his feet and possibly got a shot away. Take a look at the Sky footage re Wells, it was a clear penalty - Wigan player took him out, how could you not see that from the stands - UTT. When i see a player throw his arms up in the air i automatically think 'cheat'. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Nov 29, 2016 22:06:59 GMT 1
Take a look at the Sky footage re Wells, it was a clear penalty - Wigan player took him out, how could you not see that from the stands - UTT. When i see a player throw his arms up in the air i automatically think 'cheat'. It was interesting to note that last night Beagrie says the first thing that tells him when it is a definite penalty is when the defenders arms go up to claim it was not a foul but a dive by the attacker. The coverage then subsequently showed that indeed they did just that in unison at the Wells penalty claim. |
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Post by y2troy on Nov 29, 2016 22:11:22 GMT 1
We always get these clowns to referee our games , but the referee come as a team with his assistants they are there to help him make the decisions he either cant see or take the burden off him on certain decisions. Its no surprise that we dont get many penalties , look at all other teams the go down like been shot in and outside goal ,not that agree with that but think certain amount of professionalism on pitch and player game management needs to be lot better
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 22:15:58 GMT 1
When i see a player throw his arms up in the air i automatically think 'cheat'. It was interesting to note that last night Beagrie says the first thing that tells him when it is a definite penalty is when the defenders arms go up to claim it was not a foul but a dive by the attacker. The coverage then subsequently showed that indeed they did just that in unison at the Wells penalty claim. I recorded the match but haven't had the heart to watch it through yet, however that is an interesting observation Doc and will look out for.....Eventually.   |
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 29, 2016 23:50:06 GMT 1
The defender knows hes clipped him- and it is only the faintest of touches, but at that speed its enough to bring him down.
We certainly aren't having much luck with major decisions just now.
But with or without the refs help, we should be putting poor sides like that to bed.
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Post by Giggity on Nov 29, 2016 23:59:23 GMT 1
I'm surprised a fan hasn't ran on and slapped the referee. It is beyond frustrating.
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Post by griffa on Nov 30, 2016 0:54:14 GMT 1
I'm surprised a fan hasn't ran on and slapped the referee. It is beyond frustrating. Great idea, cos it always helps, slapping a ref, who has made a bad decision, methinks not - UTT. |
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Post by impact on Nov 30, 2016 1:01:45 GMT 1
I'm surprised a fan hasn't ran on and slapped the referee. It is beyond frustrating. Great idea, cos it always helps, slapping a ref, who has made a bad decision, methinks not - UTT. Well not slapping them hasn't really helped our cause recently, so I say give it go. |
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Post by Tinpot on Nov 30, 2016 9:06:37 GMT 1
Both the foul on Wells & the one on Kachunga were as blatant as you'll ever see. If he didn't give those then I have to question whether he's ever awarded a penalty in his life. He awarded one at Aldershot, about 7 years ago, when a centre half knifed a striker to death. He had to consult with his assistant though. Yeah I remember now. Never a penalty, he got the ball (and stuck a knife in that too). |
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Nov 30, 2016 9:34:34 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 9:34:34 GMT 1
Why would Wells have dived? He was beyond the defender not far out from goal.
The Kachunga one proves we need players to be almost decapitated to get a penalty.
Assistants do their utmost to not make a decision, until the ref tells them what he's going to give. Pathetic.
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Post by midge on Nov 30, 2016 10:07:58 GMT 1
If I were Wagner/the club I would be contacting the referees authorities and asking them to explain how one team in the Championship has had 9 penalties, one 6 and we have had none!
It's not gonna change any decisions but may make refs think I a bit more in future!!!
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Nov 30, 2016 10:31:29 GMT 1
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Post by El Mel on Nov 30, 2016 10:31:29 GMT 1
I'm surprised a fan hasn't ran on and slapped the referee. It is beyond frustrating. I nearly threw my flag at the dickhead |
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Post by huddshroom on Nov 30, 2016 12:00:11 GMT 1
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Nov 30, 2016 14:54:18 GMT 1
Will that make it a run of 4 failed penalty attempts then after Nahki's 2 misses against Fulham in March 2015. Maybe the Refs are doing us a favour |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Nov 30, 2016 16:39:01 GMT 1
Only in the League, mind ...
Wells scored a penalty in FAC3 in the 2-2 home draw with Reading in January.
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Post by Ginger Ogre on Nov 30, 2016 17:09:38 GMT 1
Both were pens IMO. the kachunga one was the most blatent of the two. just flattened him from behind. I couldn't understand why Kachunga doesn't even appeal. maybe thats something we need to look at. Did him not appealling give the ref an excuse to not give it? Like he thought- 'the player doesn't think he got fouled so i won't give it' Conversely, with the Wells one- another pen no doubt- but it wasn't as blatent. He wasn't 'wiped out' at all- it was the feigntest of knicks, but i don't think wells over dramatics in falling over helped. theres a school of thought refs look for exaggerated arms in the air diving movements as a giveaway they're being conned as its an unnatural thing to do- and i think, playing devils advocate, thats why it wasn't given by either the ref or the lino. The ref couldn't see the Wells one, he had two players blocking his view and was relying on his assistant. I looked straight to the ref (as you do) when Wells went down and he was staring at the lino so was obviously waiting on him to signal. Trouble with that is you hardly ever see Linesmen give fouls outside the box, so asking them to give Pens is a big call. Something they should be doing no doubt, but they hardly ever seem to get involved in stuff like that |
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Nov 30, 2016 17:12:39 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 17:12:39 GMT 1
The ref couldn't see the Wells one, he had two players blocking his view and was relying on his assistant. I looked straight to the ref (as you do) when Wells went down and he was staring at the lino so was obviously waiting on him to signal. Trouble with that is you hardly ever see Linesmen give fouls outside the box, so asking them to give Pens is a big call. Something they should be doing no doubt, but they hardly ever seem to get involved in stuff like that Apart from when it involves giving a penalty against us (Sheff Wed). |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Nov 30, 2016 18:32:23 GMT 1
The club should put a case forward to the FA to look into the performances of referees for our matches, particularly around penalties.
If Reading have had 9 penalties this season as claimed earlier in the thread then there is something fundamentally wrong with the psychology and approach of referees and how they award decisions. There is clearly some sort of unconscious bias or favouritism going on towards the perceived 'big clubs', and unless it is brought up I don't think it will change. Look at the disgraceful performance of the ref at Reading for example, the two penalties that weren't awarded on Tuesday night are just the latest in a long line of bad decisions that have gone against us and they are clearly not going to even themselves out anytime soon as the old cliche goes.
They should put together a video that shows all the decisions that we haven't been given, and that have been given to other teams and highlight the staggering inconsistency. I'd say they should also go to the media to try and get publicity so that it goes into the public domain and influences referees to confront their bias, but I doubt anyone other than the Examiner or Radio Leeds would give much of a shit.
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Referees
Nov 30, 2016 19:19:33 GMT 1
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Post by impact on Nov 30, 2016 19:19:33 GMT 1
Reading have had the same number of penalties in 3 months as we have had in 3 years.
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Post by oldrain on Nov 30, 2016 19:42:35 GMT 1
The thing that I find crazy is the people from sky, the radio and anybody who had a phone with sky app could see in seconds all three were pens the only people that can't see it are the ones who make the decisions
It's like someone robbing your house and getting it all caught on cctv and the police refuse to watch the tape and say they can't find any evidence it's crazy that we don't use the technology that's available
I think referees and linesmen will be put in danger when it gets to the stage of the season that these decisions will effect promotion and relegation
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Referees
Nov 30, 2016 21:34:20 GMT 1
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Post by DATM Travel Agent on Nov 30, 2016 21:34:20 GMT 1
The thing that I find crazy is the people from sky, the radio and anybody who had a phone with sky app could see in seconds all three were pens the only people that can't see it are the ones who make the decisions It's like someone robbing your house and getting it all caught on cctv and the police refuse to watch the tape and say they can't find any evidence it's crazy that we don't use the technology that's available I think referees and linesmen will be put in danger when it gets to the stage of the season that these decisions will effect promotion and relegation After seeing a replay of the Warnock incident, it definitely wasn't a penalty because the ball hit his shoulder. As for the other two, I don't think there's much I can say that hasn't already been said. |
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Post by huddshroom on Dec 1, 2016 13:33:35 GMT 1
Will that make it a run of 4 failed penalty attempts then after Nahki's 2 misses against Fulham in March 2015. Maybe the Refs are doing us a favour He's deffo missed his last 3 in the league as he missed against league, im not sure what the other penalty miss last season was? If it was him he's missed his last 4 in the league and it was vaughan that scored the last league penalty so i dont know if wells missed any before that. Personally I'd let mooy take them... then again he only seems to play good balls under pressure, his set pieces are terrible. |
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Post by wtd on Dec 1, 2016 13:49:38 GMT 1
How much would your heart sink if we won a penalty at Blackburn and Wells grabbed the ball. Be honest.  Surely this has now been decided, in training, who should take them. Didn't Loewe take them for his previous club? Him or Mooy then, hopefully. |
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