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Post by hypotenuse on Jun 2, 2017 9:46:21 GMT 1
We have to be careful not to just buy the 16/17 loanees because they were good this season. There will be cheaper, better options out there. That said, if I could keep just one of the four loanees......it would be Palmer Excellent post. There is a danger of being overly sentimental. We need players with some top level experience. I would expect most of these to be from the Bundesliga or on loan. We cannot afford some of the wages and transfer fees we will be quoted for British players. |
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Post by eddyhtfc on Jun 2, 2017 10:18:51 GMT 1
We have to be careful not to just buy the 16/17 loanees because they were good this season. There will be cheaper, better options out there. That said, if I could keep just one of the four loanees......it would be Palmer Excellent post. There is a danger of being overly sentimental. We need players with some top level experience. I would expect most of these to be from the Bundesliga or on loan. We cannot afford some of the wages and transfer fees we will be quoted for British players. Part of what has worked so well this year is the fact we have had some young and fresh new players who played fearlessly with 'no limits' These lads will be on a  of a  so we need to give them a chance to carry on We need some experience but i feel as if we are to survive we need to do it our way and the lack of prem experience is part of this as its all new and they can embrace it |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 2, 2017 10:28:00 GMT 1
Excellent post. There is a danger of being overly sentimental. We need players with some top level experience. I would expect most of these to be from the Bundesliga or on loan. We cannot afford some of the wages and transfer fees we will be quoted for British players. Part of what has worked so well this year is the fact we have had some young and fresh new players who played fearlessly with 'no limits' These lads will be on a of a so we need to give them a chance to carry on We need some experience but i feel as if we are to survive we need to do it our way and the lack of prem experience is part of this as its all new and they can embrace it Fair point, most of our first team regulars arguably had little or no Championship level experience. |
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Post by londonterrier23 on Jun 2, 2017 10:56:49 GMT 1
We have to be careful not to just buy the 16/17 loanees because they were good this season. There will be cheaper, better options out there. That said, if I could keep just one of the four loanees......it would be Palmer I don't know how you can say with any degree of confidence that ther will be 'cheaper, better options out there' If you know that KP, IB and AM understand the system and have flourished in it. If you know they fit mentally and accept the training and philosophy that you are looking to implement,you know they are young and have settled in the area and are likely to improve with experience, then you know their values will likely improve. I think you immediately buy that rather than someone who could come in and not settle, not fit in and potentially underperform, then you are buying cheap but buying twice. We need a bunch of additional quality and depth. If you stay up then it's an extra bunch of cash. I personally would be getting AM, IB and KP done as fast as possible and I wouldn't be blinking at the price tags. They will all hold / increase value. They are young and hungry and all 3 of them are clearly up for it and capable. |
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Post by terriers321 on Jun 2, 2017 11:01:17 GMT 1
I think palmer and brown maybe back.
I think mooy will go elsewhere for bigger wages.
And i wouldnt be bothered about ward. Yes brilliant for the penalty shoot outs but i think you could bring an overall more valuable player to the squad if you were going to use a loan which are now restricted. And i think Liverpool would over value him as a permanant signing.
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Post by I have a box full of hats on Jun 2, 2017 11:38:43 GMT 1
We have to be careful not to just buy the 16/17 loanees because they were good this season. There will be cheaper, better options out there. That said, if I could keep just one of the four loanees......it would be Palmer I don't know how you can say with any degree of confidence that ther will be 'cheaper, better options out there' If you know that KP, IB and AM understand the system and have flourished in it. If you know they fit mentally and accept the training and philosophy that you are looking to implement,you know they are young and have settled in the area and are likely to improve with experience, then you know their values will likely improve. I think you immediately buy that rather than someone who could come in and not settle, not fit in and potentially underperform, then you are buying cheap but buying twice. We need a bunch of additional quality and depth. If you stay up then it's an extra bunch of cash. I personally would be getting AM, IB and KP done as fast as possible and I wouldn't be blinking at the price tags. They will all hold / increase value. They are young and hungry and all 3 of them are clearly up for it and capable. This is DATM, like most people on here i have no degree of confidence in what I say, it's just an opinion. I would be happy to see any of them back next season but imagine DW has other options and they may better. I imagine it will be a stressful (but also enjoyable) close season for DW, DH et al. They have to get out of the Championship budget mindset quickly without being taken advantage of. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions. |
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 2, 2017 14:11:00 GMT 1
We have to be careful not to just buy the 16/17 loanees because they were good this season. There will be cheaper, better options out there. That said, if I could keep just one of the four loanees......it would be Palmer I don't know how you can say with any degree of confidence that ther will be 'cheaper, better options out there' If you know that KP, IB and AM understand the system and have flourished in it. If you know they fit mentally and accept the training and philosophy that you are looking to implement,you know they are young and have settled in the area and are likely to improve with experience, then you know their values will likely improve. I think you immediately buy that rather than someone who could come in and not settle, not fit in and potentially underperform, then you are buying cheap but buying twice. We need a bunch of additional quality and depth. If you stay up then it's an extra bunch of cash. I personally would be getting AM, IB and KP done as fast as possible and I wouldn't be blinking at the price tags. They will all hold / increase value. They are young and hungry and all 3 of them are clearly up for it and capable. This. What got us here as much as anything is a team spirit & a work ethic that not every player has. Keeping the squad together as much as possible gives us the best chance of maintaining that, plus we know that these 4 players fit in both as people and as professionals. I'm not saying that we should bring them in at any cost, obviously. If the player, agent or parent club make excessive demands then we need to be prepared to walk away but even if there are more talented individuals out there, they might not be as good a fit for the club. At least 3 of the 4 loanees have publicly expressed a desire to come back. The club has already been sold to them, they don;t need convincing that this is a good place to be which is a huge point in our favour. They're all still young & will have resale value should we need to recoup the money. I'd make securing their services for next season a top priority. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Jun 2, 2017 15:36:34 GMT 1
When we last got promoted in 2012, how many of the 11 players who started the Cardiff game, our first in the Championship, were at the club the previous May.
Answer: 5
You cannot afford to stand still and think that team spirit and togetherness will, on its own, earn Prem points.
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Post by londonterrier23 on Jun 2, 2017 16:07:27 GMT 1
I don't know how you can say with any degree of confidence that ther will be 'cheaper, better options out there' If you know that KP, IB and AM understand the system and have flourished in it. If you know they fit mentally and accept the training and philosophy that you are looking to implement,you know they are young and have settled in the area and are likely to improve with experience, then you know their values will likely improve. I think you immediately buy that rather than someone who could come in and not settle, not fit in and potentially underperform, then you are buying cheap but buying twice. We need a bunch of additional quality and depth. If you stay up then it's an extra bunch of cash. I personally would be getting AM, IB and KP done as fast as possible and I wouldn't be blinking at the price tags. They will all hold / increase value. They are young and hungry and all 3 of them are clearly up for it and capable. This is DATM, like most people on here i have no degree of confidence in what I say, it's just an opinion. I would be happy to see any of them back next season but imagine DW has other options and they may better. I imagine it will be a stressful (but also enjoyable) close season for DW, DH et al. They have to get out of the Championship budget mindset quickly without being taken advantage of. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions. I'd give anything to be in the boardroom working on it. Must be fa I sting stuff. An amazing documentary. |
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 2, 2017 16:34:03 GMT 1
When we last got promoted in 2012, how many of the 11 players who started the Cardiff game, our first in the Championship, were at the club the previous May. Answer: 5 You cannot afford to stand still and think that team spirit and togetherness will, on its own, earn Prem points. Again though, it's about remembering the main thing that got us there. Our 2017 promotion was based on team spirit. Our 2012 promotion was based on the fact we had a bloody brilliant striker disguising what was otherwise a pretty average side. If we were a 1 man team this year (ok, with Hunt & Smithies we were a 3 man team) I'd feel very differently. |
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Jun 2, 2017 16:45:50 GMT 1
When we last got promoted in 2012, how many of the 11 players who started the Cardiff game, our first in the Championship, were at the club the previous May. Answer: 5 You cannot afford to stand still and think that team spirit and togetherness will, on its own, earn Prem points. Again though, it's about remembering the main thing that got us there. Our 2017 promotion was based on team spirit. Our 2012 promotion was based on the fact we had a bloody brilliant striker disguising what was otherwise a pretty average side. If we were a 1 man team this year (ok, with Hunt & Smithies we were a 3 man team) I'd feel very differently. This. This team is all about team spirit, togetherness, fitness and understanding. To rebuild a large chunk of that could potentially dismantle what we have built. That's why I'm expecting the same scenario as what happened with Hudson. Early part of the season I expect the same faces and team that played last season (barring loans etc) and through the season I would expect new faces to be integrated based on form or injuries. Wagner won't pick people just because of a name or sentiment. This team have earnt the right to prove themselves and i believe he will give chances based on what he sees in training or during substitute appearances (such as Hefele did and stankovic before the injury) That's why I also expect that it will be more young faces with lots of skill, fitness and potential but not necessarily names you know |
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Post by Hammy (still in Golcar) on Jun 2, 2017 17:08:08 GMT 1
Get them back in an instance they know the drill with Wagner and more importantly there are no bad eggs, most of them lads said its best dressing room they have ever known. I say do your best to get them back.
Whoever wrote there is better cheaper options out there is just... Well.... Puddled. In my humble opinion.
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 2, 2017 17:57:44 GMT 1
Come to think of it, those who say we need to bring in loads of players, and those who say we need to build around the nucleus of the squad we have might actually be arguing the same thing but from a different angle. We're allowed a squad of 25 players over 21. No more than 17 of them can be non-homegrown. Homegrown = played in this country for 3 years. We can have as many under-21s as we like.
Based on that, our current squad is:
1.Smith
2.Hogg
3.Cranie
4.RVLP
5.Wells
6.Kachunga
7.Loewe
8.Quaner
9.Schindler
10.Hefele
11.Whitehead
12.Hudson
13.THD
14.Scannell
15.Coleman
16.Payne
17.Coddington
18.Lolley
19.Bunn
20.Hiwula
21.Davidson
22.
23.
24.
25.
U21
Billing
Stankovic
Booty
Those I've put in bold are homegrown players I'd definitely keep. Those in red are non-homegrown players I'd definitely keep. Those with a strikethrough I wouldn't even entertain the thought of giving a squad number to. The rest you could argue a case either way.
What that does highlight though is that after the 4 loanees have gone back to their parent clubs our squad is pretty small & definitely needs investment.
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Post by hypotenuse on Jun 2, 2017 18:27:15 GMT 1
Yes - we did incredibly well to get promoted with such a small squad. A real triumph I tactics and helped by the fact that our key players missed very few games through injury.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Jun 2, 2017 18:35:46 GMT 1
It amazed me to find out that the final was mooys 50th appearance for town!
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Post by townrwe on Jun 2, 2017 18:37:19 GMT 1
Come to think of it, those who say we need to bring in loads of players, and those who say we need to build around the nucleus of the squad we have might actually be arguing the same thing but from a different angle. We're allowed a squad of 25 players over 21. No more than 17 of them can be non-homegrown. Homegrown = played in this country for 3 years. We can have as many under-21s as we like. Based on that, our current squad is: 1.Smith
2.Hogg
3.Cranie
4.RVLP
5.Wells6.Kachunga
7.Loewe
8.Quaner
9.Schindler
10.Hefele11.Whitehead 12.Hudson 13.THD 14.Scannell 15.Coleman 16.Payne 17.Coddington 18.Lolley 19.Bunn 20. Hiwula21. Davidson22. 23. 24. 25. U21 Billing Stankovic Booty Those I've put in bold are homegrown players I'd definitely keep. Those in red are non-homegrown players I'd definitely keep. Those with a strikethrough I wouldn't even entertain the thought of giving a squad number to. The rest you could argue a case either way. What that does highlight though is that after the 4 loanees have gone back to their parent clubs our squad is pretty small & definitely needs investment. Scannel, lolley and bunn are the weak areas and an area we need to look to strengthen overall in the team.... but are we going to replace kachunga or rvlp? As if not may as well keep as bsckup. I doubt we would have much problem finding suiters for any of them, providing wages are comparable. To improve on the first 11 i can only see us bringing in 4 players. To improve the squad and the bench we need 10. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 2, 2017 18:43:46 GMT 1
When we last got promoted in 2012, how many of the 11 players who started the Cardiff game, our first in the Championship, were at the club the previous May. Answer: 5 You cannot afford to stand still and think that team spirit and togetherness will, on its own, earn Prem points. Again though, it's about remembering the main thing that got us there. Our 2017 promotion was based on team spirit. Our 2012 promotion was based on the fact we had a bloody brilliant striker disguising what was otherwise a pretty average side. If we were a 1 man team this year (ok, with Hunt & Smithies we were a 3 man team) I'd feel very differently. Plus you could argue the fact we stayed up by the skin of our teeth proved the opposite, if that was your agenda. However, I realistically agree with what you're saying, albeit unlike many I don't agree that Rhodes as good as got us up on his own. That team was built around his strengths. |
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 2, 2017 19:43:01 GMT 1
Again though, it's about remembering the main thing that got us there. Our 2017 promotion was based on team spirit. Our 2012 promotion was based on the fact we had a bloody brilliant striker disguising what was otherwise a pretty average side. If we were a 1 man team this year (ok, with Hunt & Smithies we were a 3 man team) I'd feel very differently. Plus you could argue the fact we stayed up by the skin of our teeth proved the opposite, if that was your agenda. However, I realistically agree with what you're saying, albeit unlike many I don't agree that Rhodes as good as got us up on his own. That team was built around his strengths. It's an exaggeration to say that JR got us up on his own (& remains one even if you acknowledge that Hunt & Smithies were also stand-out players) but our success was heavily reliant upon JR's contribution. Novak was the right sort of player to put alongside JR, Peter Clarke was as inspirational a captain as you could wish for but by & large we were a mid-table side that happened to have a striker that was outstanding. Very few of our players that got promoted in 2012 were good enough for the championship (see their subsequent careers after leaving us - Scott Arfield & Tom Clarke apart) - we were right to sell our best asset for big money & reinvest in improving the squad. You could look at it another way. Who do we have in our current squad that would command a fee that would buy a new team to survive in the Prem? If we had (say) a £50m rated player that had got us here then it might be worth selling him to fund a lot of purchases but we don't. We're roughly equally strong throughout the side. No major weaknesses, but no standout individuals either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 19:55:03 GMT 1
I don't know how you can say with any degree of confidence that ther will be 'cheaper, better options out there' If you know that KP, IB and AM understand the system and have flourished in it. If you know they fit mentally and accept the training and philosophy that you are looking to implement,you know they are young and have settled in the area and are likely to improve with experience, then you know their values will likely improve. I think you immediately buy that rather than someone who could come in and not settle, not fit in and potentially underperform, then you are buying cheap but buying twice. We need a bunch of additional quality and depth. If you stay up then it's an extra bunch of cash. I personally would be getting AM, IB and KP done as fast as possible and I wouldn't be blinking at the price tags. They will all hold / increase value. They are young and hungry and all 3 of them are clearly up for it and capable. This. What got us here as much as anything is a team spirit & a work ethic that not every player has. Keeping the squad together as much as possible gives us the best chance of maintaining that, plus we know that these 4 players fit in both as people and as professionals. I'm not saying that we should bring them in at any cost, obviously. If the player, agent or parent club make excessive demands then we need to be prepared to walk away but even if there are more talented individuals out there, they might not be as good a fit for the club. At least 3 of the 4 loanees have publicly expressed a desire to come back. The club has already been sold to them, they don;t need convincing that this is a good place to be which is a huge point in our favour. They're all still young & will have resale value should we need to recoup the money. I'd make securing their services for next season a top priority. And the one who hasn't expressed a desire to return isn't young and is more than likely going to move for his highest ever price if he leaves Man City this summer so has limited sell on value. |
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 2, 2017 19:57:07 GMT 1
This. What got us here as much as anything is a team spirit & a work ethic that not every player has. Keeping the squad together as much as possible gives us the best chance of maintaining that, plus we know that these 4 players fit in both as people and as professionals. I'm not saying that we should bring them in at any cost, obviously. If the player, agent or parent club make excessive demands then we need to be prepared to walk away but even if there are more talented individuals out there, they might not be as good a fit for the club. At least 3 of the 4 loanees have publicly expressed a desire to come back. The club has already been sold to them, they don;t need convincing that this is a good place to be which is a huge point in our favour. They're all still young & will have resale value should we need to recoup the money. I'd make securing their services for next season a top priority. And the one who hasn't expressed a desire to return isn't young and is more than likely going to move for his highest ever price if he leaves Man City this summer so has limited sell on value. True. I'd still have him back here though! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 19:59:33 GMT 1
And the one who hasn't expressed a desire to return isn't young and is more than likely going to move for his highest ever price if he leaves Man City this summer so has limited sell on value. True. I'd still have him back here though! I agree, although I suspect it influences our decision as to throw £8m at him or not. I'm guessing not, he's probably worth £5m to us in real terms, and Man City can get more than that for him. |
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Post by Melc on Jun 2, 2017 20:20:24 GMT 1
Come to think of it, those who say we need to bring in loads of players, and those who say we need to build around the nucleus of the squad we have might actually be arguing the same thing but from a different angle. We're allowed a squad of 25 players over 21. No more than 17 of them can be non-homegrown. Homegrown = played in this country for 3 years. We can have as many under-21s as we like. Based on that, our current squad is: 1.Smith
2.Hogg
3.Cranie
4.RVLP
5.Wells6.Kachunga
7.Loewe
8.Quaner
9.Schindler
10.Hefele11.Whitehead 12.Hudson 13.THD 14.Scannell 15.Coleman 16.Payne 17.Coddington 18.Lolley 19.Bunn 20. Hiwula21. Davidson22. 23. 24. 25. U21 Billing Stankovic Booty Those I've put in bold are homegrown players I'd definitely keep. Those in red are non-homegrown players I'd definitely keep. Those with a strikethrough I wouldn't even entertain the thought of giving a squad number to. The rest you could argue a case either way. What that does highlight though is that after the 4 loanees have gone back to their parent clubs our squad is pretty small & definitely needs investment. Scannel, lolley and bunn are the weak areas and an area we need to look to strengthen overall in the team.... but are we going to replace kachunga or rvlp? As if not may as well keep as bsckup. I doubt we would have much problem finding suiters for any of them, providing wages are comparable. To improve on the first 11 i can only see us bringing in 4 players. To improve the squad and the bench we need 10. We need more than 4 to add to the so called starting 11. Wagner will only bring players in to fit into our identity so we must trust his judgment. This league is a big difference to any other and quality has got to be brought in all over the pitch to give us a fighting chance! |
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[M0:0]
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Post by crux on Jun 2, 2017 20:20:57 GMT 1
True. I'd still have him back here though! I agree, although I suspect it influences our decision as to throw £8m at him or not. I'm guessing not, he's probably worth £5m to us in real terms, and Man City can get more than that for him. I'm not sure about limited sell on value though. If I remember correctly he is 26. With his style of play he can play at the highest level until he's probably 32, certainly until he is 30. He should be going to the World Cup next summer as a first choice player, with a chance to enhance his reputation. I'd certainly spend £8M on him, we'd probably get almost all of it back were we to be relegated after one season and looking to sell. If we do stay up, then it almost doesn't matter if we end up giving him away for nothing at the end of his contract. Our issue would be a bidding war, we would lose that. However, if Man City set a price and it's £8M or less, then go for it. PS: I'd buy Kasey Palmer as well  |
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Post by Detective Boyle on Jun 2, 2017 20:43:46 GMT 1
I think you're living in a fantasy world if you think we don't need to bring in quite a few prem quality players. We will need adequate cover - players like THD, Bunn, Lolley, Scannell will all be gone. DW likes 2 players per position which means we should and we will be busy. We got by, with a negative goal difference, without a goalscorer and my god do we need to get one.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 2, 2017 21:12:12 GMT 1
Arguably though we're also living in a fantasy world if we think we can outspend our rivals. How much are we prepared to spend to try & stay up? Will we have enough ££ left over to build another promotion charge should we be relegated?
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Post by townrwe on Jun 2, 2017 21:15:15 GMT 1
Scannel, lolley and bunn are the weak areas and an area we need to look to strengthen overall in the team.... but are we going to replace kachunga or rvlp? As if not may as well keep as bsckup. I doubt we would have much problem finding suiters for any of them, providing wages are comparable. To improve on the first 11 i can only see us bringing in 4 players. To improve the squad and the bench we need 10. We need more than 4 to add to the so called starting 11. Wagner will only bring players in to fit into our identity so we must trust his judgment. This league is a big difference to any other and quality has got to be brought in all over the pitch to give us a fighting chance! Possibly.... but who do you not think will cut it in the prem... i.e who are the 5+ you are replacing? |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 2, 2017 21:27:06 GMT 1
Arguably though we're also living in a fantasy world if we think we can outspend our rivals. How much are we prepared to spend to try & stay up? Will we have enough ££ left over to build another promotion charge should we be relegated? You can already see people evolving into knobber 'Premier League fans' fans 😂 In all seriousness, I think people who sound almost polar opposite on here end up not being a million miles apart when they talk about it in person. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jun 2, 2017 21:34:12 GMT 1
In terms of quality Bournemouth have 6 first team regulars who played for them in League One: Arter, Pugh, Daniels, Cook, Francis and Fraser. Not counting Ritchie at Newcastle or Elphick who played their first premier season before a £3m move to Villa
Boruc, Smith, Gosling, Surnam, Stanislas, Wilson signed in the Championship
They've stayed up comfortably for two seasons despite a Championship looking squad "on paper"
Point is, team spirit and understanding the tactics (roles, positions, discipline) shouldn't be underestimated
Town need to add some quality but a lot of our lads will be fine in the Prem
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 21:34:23 GMT 1
Will we have enough ££ left over to build another promotion charge should we be relegated? 1) How much did this seasons "promotion charge" cost? 2) How much is the parachute payment worth for the 2018/19 season. The club is in a new reality, and likely will behave for a number of years just like it has this year. There WILL be enough money to do whatever we want to do for the next six to ten years even if we're relegated with 0 points next season. Hudds Town aren't suddenly going to start splashing £10m+ on players. |
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Post by townrwe on Jun 2, 2017 21:37:54 GMT 1
In terms of quality Bournemouth have 6 first team regulars who played for them in League One: Arter, Pugh, Daniels, Cook, Francis and Fraser. Not counting Ritchie at Newcastle or Elphick who played their first premier season before a £3m move to Villa Boruc, Smith, Gosling, Surnam, Stanislas, Wilson signed in the Championship They've stayed up comfortably for two seasons despite a Championship looking squad "on paper" Point is, team spirit and understanding the tactics (roles, positions, discipline) shouldn't be underestimated Town need to add some quality but a lot of our lads will be fine in the Prem We need to score more goals. That wells, rvlp and palmer.... or their replacements. |
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of a 
so we need to give them a chance to carry on
