|
|
Post by upthetown on Jun 3, 2017 16:18:26 GMT 1
If we could theoretically get Palmer for under 5 mill sure. Just like if we could get Chris Wood for anything under 10 mill it would be a brilliant deal. Izzy Brown also for 5 mill. Less sure on Mooy's value, 40k week wages, center mid who's 26 and jaded at the end of last year? Can't really pay 10 mill for someone like that imo. So you don't see value in Mooy, but do in Wood?  ? Chris Wood is not a premier league quality player and wouldn't suit our playing style. Wouldn't want Wood either. |
|
|
|
Post by isleofmanterrier on Jun 3, 2017 17:16:43 GMT 1
So you don't see value in Mooy, but do in Wood? ? Chris Wood is not a premier league quality player and wouldn't suit our playing style. I'm saying if we could have Mooy or Wood, Wood would be far more important too us staying up. We've lacked goals this season. A lot of our goals came from the wings crossing the ball in. Imagine Wood in the box getting his head on things rather than Nahki. Completely disagree. Without Mooy we wouldn't even be in the final 3rd half as much. If you have no real outlet in the middle when your in trouble the games turn into one way traffic. |
|
|
|
Post by Grizz on Jun 3, 2017 18:15:02 GMT 1
I'm saying if we could have Mooy or Wood, Wood would be far more important too us staying up. We've lacked goals this season. A lot of our goals came from the wings crossing the ball in. Imagine Wood in the box getting his head on things rather than Nahki. Completely disagree. Without Mooy we wouldn't even be in the final 3rd half as much. If you have no real outlet in the middle when your in trouble the games turn into one way traffic. Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 18:49:05 GMT 1
Completely disagree. Without Mooy we wouldn't even be in the final 3rd half as much. If you have no real outlet in the middle when your in trouble the games turn into one way traffic. Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. Nobody scored ten for Burnley, West Ham or Watford (probably others). It's not as important as it was 15-20 years ago. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 19:30:49 GMT 1
Completely disagree. Without Mooy we wouldn't even be in the final 3rd half as much. If you have no real outlet in the middle when your in trouble the games turn into one way traffic. Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. Just been on the Town website and it appears we have a guy called Elias Kachunga. Goes by the title STRIKER and apparently scored 13 goals.  |
|
|
|
Post by isleofmanterrier on Jun 3, 2017 20:31:52 GMT 1
Completely disagree. Without Mooy we wouldn't even be in the final 3rd half as much. If you have no real outlet in the middle when your in trouble the games turn into one way traffic. Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. 2 things. 1. If you don't have a player in the middle that can get you upfield, then it wouldn't matter if we had Benzema up front. How many times do you see teams with a decent striker that is completely isolated and starved of any service. 2. We have more than 10M so there is no necessity to be saying we have to have one or the other. |
|
|
|
Post by Grizz on Jun 3, 2017 20:43:14 GMT 1
Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. Just been on the Town website and it appears we have a guy called Elias Kachunga. Goes by the title STRIKER and apparently scored 13 goals. Who also happened to play as our main right winger this season  . Then we'd need another right winger. Plus he's not really played as a lone center forward. could he hack it? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 20:47:02 GMT 1
Completely disagree. Without Mooy we wouldn't even be in the final 3rd half as much. If you have no real outlet in the middle when your in trouble the games turn into one way traffic. Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. I'd take Mooy over wood any day of the week. Wood is only good in a hoofball side. |
|
|
|
Post by Grizz on Jun 3, 2017 20:48:32 GMT 1
Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. 2 things. 1. If you don't have a player in the middle that can get you upfield, then it wouldn't matter if we had Benzema up front. How many times do you see teams with a decent striker that is completely isolated and starved of any service. 2. We have more than 10M so there is no necessity to be saying we have to have one or the other. 1) I said it was of my choice (if I was manager) if I could get either one for the same price, I'd get Wood. I can invert your question around. It's all well and good having Iniesta in midfield to get the ball forward. But if you get a striker who misses most of his goal scoring chances then you're not going to win games. 2) We're not going to be spending millions and millions this season. If both cost 10 mill (theoretically), taking us up to 20 mill. Then Izzy brown for 5 mill. That'd be a good amount of our budget gone already. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 20:51:57 GMT 1
Just been on the Town website and it appears we have a guy called Elias Kachunga. Goes by the title STRIKER and apparently scored 13 goals. Who also happened to play as our main right winger this season . Then we'd need another right winger. Plus he's not really played as a lone center forward. could he hack it? Did you notice most of his goals were scored in and round the six box mostly from headers? We don't play players in fixed traditional footballing roles under Wagner. |
|
|
|
Post by Grizz on Jun 3, 2017 20:55:09 GMT 1
Who also happened to play as our main right winger this season . Then we'd need another right winger. Plus he's not really played as a lone center forward. could he hack it? Did you notice most of his goals were scored in and round the six box mostly from headers? We don't play players in fixed traditional footballing roles under Wagner. Right, but he still was on the right wing to keep the shape. Especially when we did not have the ball to keep structural integrity for defensive means. It's different drifting into the box when la parra is down the other wing whipping one in. Compared to been the main man trying to hold the ball up etc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 21:00:56 GMT 1
Did you notice most of his goals were scored in and round the six box mostly from headers? We don't play players in fixed traditional footballing roles under Wagner. Right, but he still was on the right wing to keep the shape. Especially when we did not have the ball to keep structural integrity for defensive means. It's different drifting into the box when la parra is down the other wing whipping one in. Compared to been the main man trying to hold the ball up etc. Where is Nahki when this is happening? |
|
|
|
Post by Grizz on Jun 3, 2017 21:07:07 GMT 1
Right, but he still was on the right wing to keep the shape. Especially when we did not have the ball to keep structural integrity for defensive means. It's different drifting into the box when la parra is down the other wing whipping one in. Compared to been the main man trying to hold the ball up etc. Where is Nahki when this is happening? When what, we're keeping the shape without the ball? uptop waiting for the players to pass a certain point and then pressing them, like the whole team does once the opposition cross a certain point to force a long ball/pass it further forward. If you're meaning when la Parra is crossing the ball in, then on the edge of the box. That's where he normally is. |
|
|
|
Post by isleofmanterrier on Jun 3, 2017 21:09:05 GMT 1
2 things. 1. If you don't have a player in the middle that can get you upfield, then it wouldn't matter if we had Benzema up front. How many times do you see teams with a decent striker that is completely isolated and starved of any service. 2. We have more than 10M so there is no necessity to be saying we have to have one or the other. 1) I said it was of my choice (if I was manager) if I could get either one for the same price, I'd get Wood. I can invert your question around. It's all well and good having Iniesta in midfield to get the ball forward. But if you get a striker who misses most of his goal scoring chances then you're not going to win games. 2) We're not going to be spending millions and millions this season. If both cost 10 mill (theoretically), taking us up to 20 mill. Then Izzy brown for 5 mill. That'd be a good amount of our budget gone already. Ok let me put it another way. If we had Mooy creating chances for a striker who scores roughly 1 in 4 chances (Nakhi) then we have the chance to score a goal. If we have nobody in midfield to create any chances we don't have the possibility to score at all. |
|
|
|
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jun 3, 2017 21:54:56 GMT 1
So you don't see value in Mooy, but do in Wood? ? Chris Wood is not a premier league quality player and wouldn't suit our playing style. I'm saying if we could have Mooy or Wood, Wood would be far more important too us staying up. We've lacked goals this season. A lot of our goals came from the wings crossing the ball in. Imagine Wood in the box getting his head on things rather than Nahki. How does the ball gets to the wings? Not arguing we shouldn't have some one better or bigger in the box but Mooy provides the platform and build up to set the wide men off. He hasn't looked anymore knackered to me at the end of the season than he did at the start. He always looks knackered. |
|
|
|
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jun 3, 2017 22:10:02 GMT 1
Did you notice most of his goals were scored in and round the six box mostly from headers? We don't play players in fixed traditional footballing roles under Wagner. Right, but he still was on the right wing to keep the shape. Especially when we did not have the ball to keep structural integrity for defensive means. It's different drifting into the box when la parra is down the other wing whipping one in. Compared to been the main man trying to hold the ball up etc. Didn't you think Wells held the ball up well and linked up play in the final? We would have to totally change our style of play to accommodate Wood? Be nice to have him there on the end of moves but, like Rhodes, he is just not mobile enough to fit our system. Be handy helping out the defence at set pieces. Be a handy plan B, but we are not going to lash millions on that. We need someone like Nahki but who can be more dominating in the box. It will be a tough bloke to find. Doubt he will currently be playing in England, or that most on here will ever have heard of. In DW we trust. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 0:48:37 GMT 1
Where is Nahki when this is happening? When what, we're keeping the shape without the ball? uptop waiting for the players to pass a certain point and then pressing them, like the whole team does once the opposition cross a certain point to force a long ball/pass it further forward. If you're meaning when la Parra is crossing the ball in, then on the edge of the box. That's where he normally is. Apologies for my possibly alcohol induced responses (it is Saturday night) but Kachunga in my opinion is not playing as a stereotypical winger, hence less assists than Nahki Wells believe it or not. |
|
|
|
Post by Grizz on Jun 4, 2017 0:55:24 GMT 1
When what, we're keeping the shape without the ball? uptop waiting for the players to pass a certain point and then pressing them, like the whole team does once the opposition cross a certain point to force a long ball/pass it further forward. If you're meaning when la Parra is crossing the ball in, then on the edge of the box. That's where he normally is. Apologies for my possibly alcohol induced responses (it is Saturday night) but Kachunga in my opinion is not playing as a stereotypical winger, hence less assists than Nahki Wells believe it or not. Hey It's fine. We all have different opinions. I was just speaking for myself when I said if I personally had to choose one. I'd go for Wood. And yeh you're right. But defensively when we're sat back of the ball, he's out of the wing. And (for example) when we we're counter attacking at Reading at Wembley Kachunga got the ball a fair amount down the wing and cut inside. He plays more as an inside forward who cuts into the box to play short balls/shoot. And when off the ball he goes to the back post. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 1:05:35 GMT 1
Apologies for my possibly alcohol induced responses (it is Saturday night) but Kachunga in my opinion is not playing as a stereotypical winger, hence less assists than Nahki Wells believe it or not. Hey It's fine. We all have different opinions. I was just speaking for myself when I said if I personally had to choose one. I'd go for Wood. And yeh you're right. But defensively when we're sat back of the ball, he's out of the wing. And (for example) when we we're counter attacking at Reading at Wembley Kachunga got the ball a fair amount down the wing and cut inside. He plays more as an inside forward who cuts into the box to play short balls/shoot. And when off the ball he goes to the back post. Agreed, it's opinions.  |
|
|
|
Post by townrwe on Jun 4, 2017 9:29:36 GMT 1
Possibly.... but who do you not think will cut it in the prem... i.e who are the 5+ you are replacing? I see the likes of Lolley, Bunn, and possibility Payne, going out on loans next season, plus maybe only a couple at most of the Four loans being here next season. After that we need to build our squad up with some numbers that can cut it at this new level imo of course! Its just hard to find obvious weakness in the team... apart from replacing the loan players, to buy better players than we have is going to cost alot of cash. It used to be obvious... i.e a weak midfield, then a weak defence... now need strikers... but what next? Maybe the higher level will expose our weaknesses, but at the moment. Youd have to say its probabaly rvlp and wells... but we have a glut of riches if they are the weak points. |
|
|
|
Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 4, 2017 9:53:29 GMT 1
I see the likes of Lolley, Bunn, and possibility Payne, going out on loans next season, plus maybe only a couple at most of the Four loans being here next season. After that we need to build our squad up with some numbers that can cut it at this new level imo of course! Its just hard to find obvious weakness in the team... apart from replacing the loan players, to buy better players than we have is going to cost alot of cash. It used to be obvious... i.e a weak midfield, then a weak defence... now need strikers... but what next? Maybe the higher level will expose our weaknesses, but at the moment. Youd have to say its probabaly rvlp and wells... but we have a glut of riches if they are the weak points. Spurs are like a Fulham on drugs. I'd prefer we have a few games before we have to try and take them on. |
|
|
|
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jun 4, 2017 10:05:52 GMT 1
I see the likes of Lolley, Bunn, and possibility Payne, going out on loans next season, plus maybe only a couple at most of the Four loans being here next season. After that we need to build our squad up with some numbers that can cut it at this new level imo of course! Its just hard to find obvious weakness in the team... apart from replacing the loan players, to buy better players than we have is going to cost alot of cash. It used to be obvious... i.e a weak midfield, then a weak defence... now need strikers... but what next? Maybe the higher level will expose our weaknesses, but at the moment. Youd have to say its probabaly rvlp and wells... but we have a glut of riches if they are the weak points. It's easy to see the weaknesses. What do we do if Schindler, Hef, Hogg are out for two months (or even two days if one is a match day), or if we can't get Mooy and Brown or at least their equivalents, and back up to the equivalents. We have a very small and shallow squad. We might just survive if we had the play off final starting 11, starting every game in the Premiership. Might. |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jun 4, 2017 16:05:21 GMT 1
The 3 players we had last season,Palmer Brown and Mooy would probably cost around £20 million.Based on that plus extra wages for those 3 who would not be additions to the squad,would leave us needing to spend more money on the additions we need, that's a hell of a chunk out of our promotion money.Would Dean Hoyle want to spend that amount this summer? I'm sure when Sky kept going on about us on tuesday they showed a graphic saying only two teams winning the play offs had ever spent over £20m in the first season |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jun 4, 2017 16:14:46 GMT 1
Did you notice most of his goals were scored in and round the six box mostly from headers? We don't play players in fixed traditional footballing roles under Wagner. Right, but he still was on the right wing to keep the shape. Especially when we did not have the ball to keep structural integrity for defensive means. It's different drifting into the box when la parra is down the other wing whipping one in. Compared to been the main man trying to hold the ball up etc. But he didn't drift into the box when VLP had the ball, he just stood on the wing, Smith got in more often. That was a bugbear of mine all season that the wingers didn't come in and the number 10 stayed outside the box, usually leaving Nakhi on his own. It happened far too often |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jun 4, 2017 16:16:55 GMT 1
1) I said it was of my choice (if I was manager) if I could get either one for the same price, I'd get Wood. I can invert your question around. It's all well and good having Iniesta in midfield to get the ball forward. But if you get a striker who misses most of his goal scoring chances then you're not going to win games. 2) We're not going to be spending millions and millions this season. If both cost 10 mill (theoretically), taking us up to 20 mill. Then Izzy brown for 5 mill. That'd be a good amount of our budget gone already. Ok let me put it another way. If we had Mooy creating chances for a striker who scores roughly 1 in 4 chances (Nakhi) then we have the chance to score a goal. If we have nobody in midfield to create any chances we don't have the possibility to score at all. How many chances did Mooy make ? When he was playing at his best he was giving the ball to Kasey and he was providing the killer balls |
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jun 4, 2017 16:31:57 GMT 1
Theoretically, we get Mooy. Who's our striker for next season? Nahki Wells got something like 10 goals. Nowhere near good enough for the Prem. My point was that if I had 10 mill, and could pick either Mooy, or Wood. I'd get Wood. Clinical striker. We need goals next season or we're fk'd. Just been on the Town website and it appears we have a guy called Elias Kachunga. Goes by the title STRIKER and apparently scored 13 goals. Yep i saw that too! apparently german with no previous championship premiership experience. May have trouble adjusting to the physical aspects of British football. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 16:57:56 GMT 1
Just been on the Town website and it appears we have a guy called Elias Kachunga. Goes by the title STRIKER and apparently scored 13 goals. Yep i saw that too! apparently german with no previous championship premiership experience. May have trouble adjusting to the physical aspects of British football. Gareth Jones has a word for that. |
|
|
|
Post by isleofmanterrier on Jun 4, 2017 17:01:26 GMT 1
Ok let me put it another way. If we had Mooy creating chances for a striker who scores roughly 1 in 4 chances (Nakhi) then we have the chance to score a goal. If we have nobody in midfield to create any chances we don't have the possibility to score at all. How many chances did Mooy make ? When he was playing at his best he was giving the ball to Kasey and he was providing the killer balls If you read my previous discussion the point I'm trying to highlight is that he gets us out of trouble sand gets us playing further upfield. Whether directly or indirectly he actually sets the chance up, the point remains that without him we wouldn't create half as many chances. |
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jun 4, 2017 17:05:19 GMT 1
Yep i saw that too! apparently german with no previous championship premiership experience. May have trouble adjusting to the physical aspects of British football. Gareth Jones has a word for that. I have a word for Gareth Jones  |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jun 4, 2017 17:07:08 GMT 1
How many chances did Mooy make ? When he was playing at his best he was giving the ball to Kasey and he was providing the killer balls If you read my previous discussion the point I'm trying to highlight is that he gets us out of trouble sand gets us playing further upfield. Whether directly or indirectly he actually sets the chance up, the point remains that without him we wouldn't create half as many chances. Is that something only Mooy does ? Surely thats just the job of a central midfielder, it's what Clayton and Butterfield did too |
|
?
. Then we'd need another right winger. Plus he's not really played as a lone center forward. could he hack it?
