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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 20:02:07 GMT 1
His style is certainly different to DW's who forever trotted out the 'we did not deserve to lose, we played well' etc.JS was a breath of fresh air when he started to say things were unacceptable. I can imagine how that irked some players who felt the gaffer's job was to protect them.
Of course Hudson is popular, he doesn't make the decisions!
The question is, are the players unhappy at the shock JS has instilled in the tough approach or is their a genuine man-management issue with him having only previously managed the junior & upcoming ranks?
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Mar 31, 2019 20:08:26 GMT 1
Very thin on content, but key players dropped makes it look like zanka billing Flo or mounie, not Hogg or Smith. If so, carry on as you are Jan! We likely have a handful of players trying to get Premier League (or other top tier) transfers who will have to explain away not even getting a regular start in one of the worst teams at the level for the last ten matches our so of the season. I'm sure none of their agents would ever plant hostile stories in the press just to make a few quid though But if it our stalwarts like Mooy, Hogg and Schindler that he’s upset this needs sorting now not at the end of the season. Jeez is there no end to the problems this season?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 31, 2019 20:09:08 GMT 1
His style is certainly different to DW's who forever trotted out the 'we did not deserve to lose, we played well' etc.JS was a breath of fresh air when he started to say things were unacceptable. I can imagine how that irked some players who felt the gaffer's job was to protect them. Of course Hudson is popular, he doesn't make the decisions! The question is, are the players unhappy at the shock JS has instilled in the tough approach or is their a genuine man-management issue with him having only previously managed the junior & upcoming ranks? Siewert's mentality concerns me a little in that if anything has gone well it's down to him but if it hasn't got well its down to the players. He was appointed for next season so it's somewhat unfair to judge him on this season BUT Dean will "know" deep down how it's likely to unfold. If he's still chairman come summer it's not inconceivable that he will get rid of him . Its not that he hasn't thrown a few managerial curveballs in the past
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Mar 31, 2019 20:13:02 GMT 1
His style is certainly different to DW's who forever trotted out the 'we did not deserve to lose, we played well' etc.JS was a breath of fresh air when he started to say things were unacceptable. I can imagine how that irked some players who felt the gaffer's job was to protect them. Of course Hudson is popular, he doesn't make the decisions! The question is, are the players unhappy at the shock JS has instilled in the tough approach or is their a genuine man-management issue with him having only previously managed the junior & upcoming ranks? Siewert's mentality concerns me a little in that if anything has gone well it's down to him but if it hasn't got well its down to the players. He was appointed for next season so it's somewhat unfair to judge him on this season BUT Dean will "know" deep down how it's likely to unfold. If he's still chairman come summer it's not inconceivable that he will get rid of him . Ita not that he hasn't thrown a few managerial curveballs in the past If it’s an issue Dean needs to act quickly. We can’t afford to have our best players making decisions to leave because of it.
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Post by bacuna on Mar 31, 2019 20:13:35 GMT 1
Very thin on content, but key players dropped makes it look like zanka billing Flo or mounie, not Hogg or Smith. If so, carry on as you are Jan! We likely have a handful of players trying to get Premier League (or other top tier) transfers who will have to explain away not even getting a regular start in one of the worst teams at the level for the last ten matches our so of the season. I'm sure none of their agents would ever plant hostile stories in the press just to make a few quid though But if it our stalwarts like Mooy, Hogg and Schindler that he’s upset this needs sorting now not at the end of the season. Jeez is there no end to the problems this season? Agreed, but no reason to think it is them on this evidence. If it's not just some journo making stuff up, why go to the press? If you're wanting a move and know that not getting on the bench is hurting your chances theres a motivation to get this story out there. Mooy, Hogg and so on don't have that motivation (and I'd be surprised if it was their style to be honest).
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Mar 31, 2019 20:28:50 GMT 1
Who are the 'key players' dropped without explanation? Flo? Mounie? Billing? If so, what does 'key' mean?
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Post by marshterrier on Mar 31, 2019 20:29:32 GMT 1
Im backing Jan. Most of the players needed a big kick up the backside. They haven't performed anywhere need the level of last season and that was a struggle! I hope Dean backs him up and we get rid of the arrisholes in the dressing room as they have got us relegated , not Jan and David.
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Mar 31, 2019 20:31:07 GMT 1
It sounds believable to me. The stuff about him being aggressive after defeats and losing the dressing room as a result definitely checks out, especially contrasted to how defensive and downright nice (sometimes to a fault) Wagner was towards them. Maybe the whole captain saga upset a few as well.
If it is true it's pathetic on the part of the players involved. Jan's selections have made sense. If a player doesn't put an effort in one week they get dropped the next, with no exceptions. If certain senior players are upset, it's because they're not being allowed to hide from the numerous errors they make week after week. Siewert in!
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Mar 31, 2019 20:31:51 GMT 1
Totally different ball game next season, we need some really strong honest characters !
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 31, 2019 20:59:38 GMT 1
I speculated a few weeks ago after he took the captaincy from smith, overlooked vice captain Hogg and gave it Schindler it was needless and risked alienating important voices in the dressing room
Loewe certainly has been dropped etc
Pritchard frozen out even from the bench in the first month. Others frozen since
Every defeat JS alludes to a bollocking that he’s going to hand out and never accepts any responsibility, eg versus 10 man Everton his subs were shocking, too late and he plain got it wrong
I claim no inside knowledge but from the outside there looks to be issue with his man management
Now a national press journo is saying out of the blue there’s an unhappy dressing room (do people think a Times reporter merely dreams this stuff up on a Sunday afternoon!) and JS being cryptic about his future - no smoke without fire?
To dismiss this as as untrue simply because we don’t like it is kind of having the blinkers on
Time will tell ultimately
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 21:01:14 GMT 1
Siewert's mentality concerns me a little in that if anything has gone well it's down to him but if it hasn't got well its down to the players. He was appointed for next season so it's somewhat unfair to judge him on this season BUT Dean will "know" deep down how it's likely to unfold. If he's still chairman come summer it's not inconceivable that he will get rid of him . Ita not that he hasn't thrown a few managerial curveballs in the [/quoteIf it’s an issue Dean needs to act quickly. We can’t afford to have our best players making decisions to leave because of it. I DOont believe the paper articles and have just picked things from siewarts interviiw and got the wrong end of the stick. you can never say never but ill be very surprised if he isn't in charge next season.
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Post by Tinpot on Mar 31, 2019 21:09:35 GMT 1
I'm not convinced. Did a great job of getting Watford promoted, but they sacked him immediately - presumably because they didn't have faith in him to manage in the PL. Did a great job of getting Fulham promoted, but then sacked after spunking an absolute fuckload of money & being even worse (at the time) than us. He might be a decent shout to get us into the PL, and his sides play lovely attacking football. But he is tactically naive & that will be exposed in the PL, and his record in the PL ain't great. Slavisa in (if past record is anything to go by) = we'd play lovely football & may even get promoted, but we'd be in no position to stay there.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Mar 31, 2019 21:10:21 GMT 1
Sounds like bollocks to me
All those who started yesterday were certainly playing for him. You don't go to a side like Palace and control most of the first half like we did if the players aren't listening to the manager
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 21:18:56 GMT 1
Sounds like bollocks to me All those who started yesterday were certainly playing for him. You don't go to a side like Palace and control most of the first half like we did if the players aren't listening to the manager correct.
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Post by Tinpot on Mar 31, 2019 21:32:10 GMT 1
I'd suggest that unless there's something particularly horrible happening behind the scenes, replacing him now would be counter-productive. He's had a little over 2 months to assess the players at the club & whilst you can say there's been no immediate impact, there have been a few things to suggest he might be the man for the job next year. What can he do with Diakhaby? From looking like Bambi on ice after a few too many babychams, he showed what he's capable of against Arsenal (something he's likely to get more opportunity to do next season as we'll be a bigger fish by comparison, so we'll be more able to attack). He's blooded a couple of players who many of us had never heard of had those 2 months to prepare for next season - seen what our players are about. I've been saying all along, that this has been a pre-season. Give him chance to make the most of what he's learned, and to mould his own squad.
The flip side of that of course is - I also have high expectations for next season. Gone are the days when we could not compete financially in this division. We still can't (or at least, shouldn't) go daft, but we should reasonably expect to have a bloody good go next year. If that doesn't happen, then even if we're towards the bottom end of the table & we decide to get rid, the HTFC manager's job is no poisoned chalice. We have PL money, a supportive (but sensible) chairman and some bloody noisy, supportive fans. This is not a job where the fans &/or chairman expect miracles. Whoever comes in can expect support in the ground and behind the scenes.
For now though, that man is Jan Siewert. The man the club has been watching for a couple of years. The man who has not yet had the chance to implement his vision. I reserve judgement but he absolutely has my support for now.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Mar 31, 2019 21:50:25 GMT 1
It wont take long before the left over /incoming parachute premier league funds eventually run out ,so vital they are spent wisely by someone who knows what they are doing. .
Championship promotion will be a massive ask , and much will depend on if the club can retain our "BETTER PLAYERS " especially Mooy. .
Any rebuilding programme will not come cheap especially if looking to make a top 6 challenge ,and feel any future for Jan at the club will depend if his ask / decent funds are made available to him by Hoyle to build his own team/squad
Jan will have a good idea of who will fit into his plans for next season , then lets hope he can raise decent funds from on those on the way out
The one thing i am not sure about is how long Hoyle will give Jan to prove himself especially if his expectation levels are high next season
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 31, 2019 21:59:00 GMT 1
cant judge a man on the end of this shitty season.. the players, most of them anyway, are putting in the work but anything that goes against us immediately means heads drop and what little confidence there is fades away..
seems to me some of the players gave far too little for far too long and were allowed to get away with it with money/quality excuses thrown out for them...
this bloke isnt prepared to accept excuses for losing the will to give it everything and for making shitty mistakes time after time.. some wont like it..
they are not mentally right for this league and definitely wont be right for the brawls we will have next season..
I expect sensible financial control next season which is a better position for us to be in than last time we were championship... I expect us to compete towards the top end and be in contention at the end.
It took Dave a while to implement his ideas and the new bloke was never going to hit the ground running after 12 games without a win, see Ranieri for details..
He gets a fair go from me and he is right that whatever the money/quality in the Premier league we have failed badly to meet the minimum standards required..
I have no beef with relegation, nobody is surprised other than the pundits who all want to talk about us now in that 'I told you so' sort of way..
We do get an extra month now to plan for the off season and next year.. POSITIVES only from now is the only way to go..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 22:39:14 GMT 1
His style is certainly different to DW's who forever trotted out the 'we did not deserve to lose, we played well' etc.JS was a breath of fresh air when he started to say things were unacceptable. I can imagine how that irked some players who felt the gaffer's job was to protect them. Of course Hudson is popular, he doesn't make the decisions! The question is, are the players unhappy at the shock JS has instilled in the tough approach or is their a genuine man-management issue with him having only previously managed the junior & upcoming ranks? Siewert's mentality concerns me a little in that if anything has gone well it's down to him but if it hasn't got well its down to the players. He was appointed for next season so it's somewhat unfair to judge him on this season BUT Dean will "know" deep down how it's likely to unfold. If he's still chairman come summer it's not inconceivable that he will get rid of him . Its not that he hasn't thrown a few managerial curveballs in the past Has he? I don’t think Dean has ever acted in what could be called a decisive manner with regards to getting rid of a manager, he pretty much always seems to give them at least half a season if not longer of leeway beyond what a reasonable observer would be thinking, “this club needs some kind of change”. Jan was employed for next season....none of what he’s presided over this season is likely to impact on the time he’ll be given next season. The curveballs have been the appointments, not the departures.
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Post by townrwe on Mar 31, 2019 23:03:02 GMT 1
If the rumours are true and hoggy and Smith had a right tee off on a good number of the squad the day after Wagner left then I'd suggest siewert is setting standards that didn't exist under wagner and the slackers and shirkers "premier league" players don't like been told by what they see as a 3rd rate manager coming in.
I think Wagner was great when things were going well and we got on a run, but couldn't turn a poor run around and the way he went suggests he knew it.
So to siewert.... he has chopped through the bullshit straight away. He is looking at actual performance rather than been impressed by someone that's been named Danish footballer of the year, someone who convincingly pretends to be a good a player by blaming everyone else. The pussies that worry about the quality of the opposition and show them too much (should be any) respect.
Siewert has 100% my backing, hes inherited a team who didn't even perform under arguably one of our top 3 managers of all time.... he didn't spend a bean in January, he allowed the 2m grant deal to go through but he vetoed an 8m move for an attacking mid and instead picked some kids.
You cant question his commitment, he seems to want to mould his own team and you have to give him one or two transfer windows to judge him.
I'd personally be very disappointed if he left without been given a proper go with HIS players.
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Post by ritchie on Mar 31, 2019 23:12:08 GMT 1
he might have ruffled some feathers but I think he's also probably made a few allies who can hold the dressing room.
smith and hogg - both good pros and probably took the captaincy thing on the chin. neither strike me as the type to go against the manager and both will likely want to stay here next year.
schindler - captain, german
bacuna, stankovic, rowe, grant - been shown a lot of faith in, wont have any complaints
pritchard - no lack of effort, probably feels more loved than under wagner
diakhaby, mbenza - injured at the wrong time but again both likely feel more loved
mooy - bit harder to read....hopefully in the team because he's staying, but more than likely because he's remained totally professional so siewart happy to still play him
billing, losll, zanka, flo, ldp - see ya
when you break it down like that its actually fairly impressive given he's had a couple of months to form pretty much the same opinion as many of us would about who can go or stay. Ive had concerns about his man management but if he still has the above players he might just have created a take no shit mentality.
assuming this journo hasnt just completely made this up (may have, but we're hardly big media pulls), it doesnt take a genius to work out where this "dressing room scoop" could have come from. probably one of 3 who have already been shown to use the press for their own PR purposes. story comes out that jan's a nut case and it explains why these 3 havent been getting in the side when their agents tart them about this summer
whether jan's here or not will possibly depend on ownership
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Post by workshyfop on Apr 1, 2019 6:37:52 GMT 1
If, and I still think it’s a big if, he has upset some of the players then good ... probably not as much as some of them have upset me this season! Time they got out of that comfort zone and earned their wages. He seems to be his own man and said as much when he came in ... whether he tried to stamp his authority too quickly or not, it doesn’t really matter as the season had gone and he needed to at least try a different approach. I agree with others in regard his level of English, or rather his German intonation, may make him sound more arrogant than he is. To me, he just seems quite honest and passionate about the job. Hope it’s a nonsense story and he gets at chance (if for no other reason than where would we go fro here otherwise - the next German on the list? Back to the old usual suspects managerial merrygoround?). First I’d heard above about him turning down an £8m attacking midfielder - who? As for Mooy, his post-match interview would suggest he’s gone. I may be reading too much into it, but when talking about next season in the Championship he referred to the club as “they” rather than “we”. At least, a few good fees gives the manager some money to bring his own players hopefully so not too fussed if those that don’t buy into it leave.
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Post by kennyk2 on Apr 1, 2019 7:59:46 GMT 1
Just a few points.
1. It will be a very different side will begin the first game next season - he should have the players he wants... players that want to be at the club. Fresh start.
2. He'll have money to spend, and didn't some inside source say that the plan is for this money to last us 10 years? Probably the healthiest situation of any club that has been relegated from the PL.
3. I suggest that JS has told players that they can go if they are not focused on playing for this club and don't have the short/medium term interest of the club at heart, and some have had a bit of a cry and a sports journal has wind of this. I suspect that some of the "star players" may not play again this season. Having witnessed the ruthless way that DH operates, I think he will be right behind the new manager in this respect. One thing we know about DH's leadership is that if you fuck about and play silly games, if you get delusions of grandeur, or you are not fully committed to this team, you are out on your ear. Perhaps DH has been desperate to shake it up, but only now is now well enough to have both hands on the reins again start cracking the whip. In JS he has a like minded leader who will do this for him.
4. JS has realised that Hogg and Schindler are absolutely critical to the team going forward. Not necessarily because of their football prowess, but because they are totally loyal and put the interests of the club first.
So, there may be some truth in the rumour that he has lost the dressing room, but only some of it and DH not JS will make sure that this bad part is purged.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Apr 1, 2019 8:12:41 GMT 1
If anyone is at Canalside cafe today please post any updates.
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Post by townrwe on Apr 1, 2019 8:33:34 GMT 1
Its only taken him two months to see that lossl is all breakfast and no trousers.
For me, the manager takes no blame, it's the big time "bought for the premier league" players that have let the club down.
He can sit down today and have straight conversations with every player today. If they are in his plans or not and allow them to get sorted for next year early. That should actually improve morale even for those surplus to requirements.
He wants a professional, fit, hard working, aggressive, tight group.
He must have seen the divisions in the group and for me he has stuck by the ones pretty much every fan who has watched over the last 3 years would stick with.
When it comes to recruitment, we need to remember character at a position slightly above quality.
Since webber's departure we have signed alot of so called "quality" players who seem to have questionable characters.
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Post by dewsburyborn on Apr 1, 2019 8:40:53 GMT 1
I'm not convinced. Did a great job of getting Watford promoted, but they sacked him immediately - presumably because they didn't have faith in him to manage in the PL. Did a great job of getting Fulham promoted, but then sacked after spunking an absolute fuckload of money & being even worse (at the time) than us. He might be a decent shout to get us into the PL, and his sides play lovely attacking football. But he is tactically naive & that will be exposed in the PL, and his record in the PL ain't great. Slavisa in (if past record is anything to go by) = we'd play lovely football & may even get promoted, but we'd be in no position to stay there. Jokanovic -
1. left Watford cos they wouldn't give him the improved contract he thought he deserved for getting them promoted.
2. It was the Fulham chairman's son DOF who spunked all the money on signings over Jokanovic's head
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Post by kennyk2 on Apr 1, 2019 8:45:19 GMT 1
We seem to have the JRG* pulling the other way, intent on destroying the togetherness of the fans.
*JRG = Jokanovic Research Group.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 9:00:59 GMT 1
I'd suggest that unless there's something particularly horrible happening behind the scenes, replacing him now would be counter-productive. He's had a little over 2 months to assess the players at the club & whilst you can say there's been no immediate impact, there have been a few things to suggest he might be the man for the job next year. What can he do with Diakhaby? From looking like Bambi on ice after a few too many babychams, he showed what he's capable of against Arsenal (something he's likely to get more opportunity to do next season as we'll be a bigger fish by comparison, so we'll be more able to attack). He's blooded a couple of players who many of us had never heard of had those 2 months to prepare for next season - seen what our players are about. I've been saying all along, that this has been a pre-season. Give him chance to make the most of what he's learned, and to mould his own squad. The flip side of that of course is - I also have high expectations for next season. Gone are the days when we could not compete financially in this division. We still can't (or at least, shouldn't) go daft, but we should reasonably expect to have a bloody good go next year. If that doesn't happen, then even if we're towards the bottom end of the table & we decide to get rid, the HTFC manager's job is no poisoned chalice. We have PL money, a supportive (but sensible) chairman and some bloody noisy, supportive fans. This is not a job where the fans &/or chairman expect miracles. Whoever comes in can expect support in the ground and behind the scenes. For now though, that man is Jan Siewert. The man the club has been watching for a couple of years. The man who has not yet had the chance to implement his vision. I reserve judgement but he absolutely has my support for now. what a well balanced post. you are correct and deserves our5 support. the media are always looking for angles when a club is going through a bad time but where in any club you will have players who are not happy they often get blown out of propotion by the media.we have a busy summer ahead and whatever develops we have to pull together and support the club and the season cards suggest we will. we move on utt
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Post by dewsburyborn on Apr 1, 2019 9:05:40 GMT 1
We seem to have the JRG* pulling the other way, intent on destroying the togetherness of the fans. *JRG = Jokanovic Research Group. Not from me you don't. I was merely adding info to what had been posted earlier - though I am happy to admit I have previously posted about the merits of Jokanovic of getting teams promoted from the Championship with attractive football. I am all for giving JS a decent crack of the whip with his own players.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 9:20:17 GMT 1
If the rumours are true and hoggy and Smith had a right tee off on a good number of the squad the day after Wagner left then I'd suggest siewert is setting standards that didn't exist under wagner and the slackers and shirkers "premier league" players don't like been told by what they see as a 3rd rate manager coming in. I think Wagner was great when things were going well and we got on a run, but couldn't turn a poor run around and the way he went suggests he knew it. So to siewert.... he has chopped through the bullshit straight away. He is looking at actual performance rather than been impressed by someone that's been named Danish footballer of the year, someone who convincingly pretends to be a good a player by blaming everyone else. The pussies that worry about the quality of the opposition and show them too much (should be any) respect. Siewert has 100% my backing, hes inherited a team who didn't even perform under arguably one of our top 3 managers of all time.... he didn't spend a bean in January, he allowed the 2m grant deal to go through but he vetoed an 8m move for an attacking mid and instead picked some kids. You cant question his commitment, he seems to want to mould his own team and you have to give him one or two transfer windows to judge him. I'd personally be very disappointed if he left without been given a proper go with HIS players. townrwe we disagree on many things regarding town but your post is a fair one apart from the bit about wagner but your point about time to mould his own team etc is spot on. he needs time and support coudnt agree more
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 9:25:50 GMT 1
he vetoed an 8m move for an attacking mid. He did? Who was that??
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