arry11
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 21:15:52 GMT 1
Post by arry11 on May 5, 2019 21:15:52 GMT 1
That's what the official premier league stats say which are compiled by OPTA You can't lose a tackle/challenge you don't go in for. Mbenza often doesn't even make a challenge, which probably skews the statistics a bit. He probably only goes in for ones 80/20 in his favour. He certainly often refuses to go in for ones that he may lose, and even those 60/40 in his favour. He may well be brilliant in the Championship - and as a Town fan I hope he is - but he needs to get stuck in more. The Championship is about hard work as much as skill, and we can't afford any shrinking violets. I do like a player to compete but if he contributes to a better attacking formation and a lot more goals then so be its all about getting the balance right. |
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 21:17:31 GMT 1
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on May 5, 2019 21:17:31 GMT 1
Did anyone see the 'tackle' he made on Ashley Young in the first half on the Riverside Stand? He was miles away from him and the ball.
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Post by Town Duppy on May 5, 2019 21:20:16 GMT 1
Yes lets buy some defenders.
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 21:28:21 GMT 1
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Post by ACW on May 5, 2019 21:28:21 GMT 1
You can't lose a tackle/challenge you don't go in for. Mbenza often doesn't even make a challenge, which probably skews the statistics a bit. He probably only goes in for ones 80/20 in his favour. He certainly often refuses to go in for ones that he may lose, and even those 60/40 in his favour. He may well be brilliant in the Championship - and as a Town fan I hope he is - but he needs to get stuck in more. The Championship is about hard work as much as skill, and we can't afford any shrinking violets. I do like a player to compete but if he contributes to a better attacking formation and a lot more goals then so be its all about getting the balance right. Agreed, but if the ball is there to be won, I'd expect all players to try and win it, irrespective of their role in the team. I'm not sure Mbenza always shows enough intent to win the ball when the opportunity is there to do so. Not that I'm writing him off. He has shown flashes of what he can do, and he took his goal extremely well against arguably the best goalie in the world. The Championship is a big step down from the Premier League, so there's a good chance he'll be far more effective. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 5, 2019 21:30:10 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock
Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer
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Post by ACW on May 5, 2019 21:33:57 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer Nobody said that. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect all players to make an attempt to win the ball when they have a good chance of winning it? Or is it just an expectation we have of certain players in certain positions? |
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 21:37:27 GMT 1
Post by reverendstarbuck on May 5, 2019 21:37:27 GMT 1
Mbenza has won 9 out of 10 tackles? So hes only lost 1 tackle this season and only had the ball taken off him 8 times? That seems right to you? Is there a stat detailing total amount of challenges pulled out of? One in particular today was absolutely shocking and caused a Man Utd breakaway. Bet his style of play really impresses Hoggy I'm pretty sure Hoggy would've been impressed with his goal. Horses for courses? |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 5, 2019 21:38:01 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer Nobody said that. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect all players to make an attempt to win the ball when they have a good chance of winning it? Or is it just an expectation we have of certain players in certain positions? I expect them to challenge but I don't expect them to be as successful in a tackle as our defenders for example. He went in for plenty of tackles today, a few luckily bounced their way and some he went in a bit soft and lost. |
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Post by WirralTerrier on May 5, 2019 21:38:58 GMT 1
Mbenza has won 9 out of 10 tackles? So hes only lost 1 tackle this season and only had the ball taken off him 8 times? That seems right to you? Is there a stat detailing total amount of challenges pulled out of? One in particular today was absolutely shocking and caused a Man Utd breakaway. Bet his style of play really impresses Hoggy Why don't people just accept hes not that type of player. His work rate is brilliant. Hes a winger. An out and out winger. Same as diakhaby. They need to be given that freedom to attack especially in the championship but still have the work rate to help out which they do. It's like the equivalent of saying Hogg is shit at taking players on and putting in a cross. That's not what hes there for. Look at Salah at liverpool. Probably one of the softest players I've seen. Compare him to mbenza. Salah has been dispossessed 115 times, mbenza 8. Tackles made, Salah 20, mbenza 10. Salah appearances 37, mbenza 21. And why do people throw these stupid comments out about the championship being a tough hard league and these defenders will have a field day with him. Joe lolley has taken the piss half of the season and he could barely run half the time when he was in a town shirt. Mbenza obviously needs to improve but instead of being up against Luke shaw he will be up against Scott malone next year, let's just see how he does then and if hes shite then fair enough but the criticism hes had so far this year is ott especially when the whole team has been poor and way below the level required. |
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arry11
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 21:44:12 GMT 1
Post by arry11 on May 5, 2019 21:44:12 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer Nobody said that. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect all players to make an attempt to win the ball when they have a good chance of winning it? Or is it just an expectation we have of certain players in certain positions? I did post earlier about Mbenza i think he could be useful but i hope we bring in options to our front guys. What i have seen so far this season is our front line have been devoid of any cohesion which ever players start. |
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Post by Porrohman on May 5, 2019 22:43:12 GMT 1
If he can improve his decision making and final ball he will cause problems for some Championship defences next season. His final ball has generally been better than anyone else's this season |
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 22:45:34 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on May 5, 2019 22:45:34 GMT 1
Took his goal well but other than that was a passenger once again IMO. The news that hes our player and for the bizarre amount we are supposed to have paid for him isn;t anything to celebrate IMO. Weve well and truly had our pants pulled down. I really hope he comes good but it will take an enormous improvement for that to happen. Not just in ability but in attitude too. The championship is a rough and tough division and this lad will do anything he can to avoid the risk of being hurt. I worry most championship defenders will rub their hands together at how easy it will be to bully him out of games. He didn't look soft when Brady kicked him up in the air to get sent off v Burnley, he was going to kill him |
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Post by Porrohman on May 5, 2019 22:49:12 GMT 1
Traore looks just like Mbenza and Diakhaby in the Premier League. Quick but largely ineffectual He made Championship defenders look like they were playing with a 50kg rucksack on Some need to remember this is the Premier League we're playing in Kachunga looks like he belongs in the Conference when he plays against Premier League opposition. Yet he was more than good enough in the Championship Scott Malone is one of the best defenders in the Championship. Just let that sink in Kachunga has fight. Traore has fight ( and is built like a brick shithouse ) Mbenza has no fight in him whatsoever. He was pulling out of challenges today left right and centre- thats in a really high profile game live on the telly around the world. Defenders like Scott Malone might lack the technical ability of top prem defenders but they will see Mbenza as a very soft touch and target him for that. Honestly hes one of the most powderpuff players i can remember seeing. If he doesn;t grow some guts, start to fight and risk taking a knock here and there, then pace or not, he isn;t going to do anything in the championship IMO. I didn't see him pull out of anything, I saw him trying to toe the ball past defenders and not quite managing. Kachunga may have fight but no pace or ability which if I was defending I'd prefer to face |
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Mbenza
May 5, 2019 22:55:50 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on May 5, 2019 22:55:50 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer That's Kachunga fucked on all fronts then but he's free from criticism on here 😒 |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 5, 2019 22:57:17 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer That's Kachunga fucked on all fronts then but he's free from criticism on here 😒 Pritchard has bottled tackles since day one in a Town shirt but I don't think i've seen anyone mention it |
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Post by blueandbrightside on May 5, 2019 23:54:26 GMT 1
He’s certainly got something. If we can get him involved a bit more then he could come good. Mystifying why when it was going pear shaped earlier in the season he wasn’t given more of a run, or was he injured and so not available.
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 8:39:14 GMT 1
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Post by rastrick32 on May 6, 2019 8:39:14 GMT 1
He is powder puff in the tackle. He just dangles a toe in and hopes to get lucky. As I posted earlier, I am much more concerned about his positional awareness and his awareness of where his own players are.
He might be an asset but he might also be a dud. I'm not fully writing him off yet.
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 9:14:48 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on May 6, 2019 9:14:48 GMT 1
The attitude that he won;t risk getting hurt. Its a risk that comes with the job for any player but especially those with pace who play out wide. Mbenza pulls out of any challenge, even if hes the favourite to win it. Which ironically is more likely to get him injured. I disagree. He doesn’t tackle very often and he’s not highly tactically aware, but that’s not his game. We need to move away from the idea that all attacking players have to get stuck in and concentrate on the clean sheet. It’s plainly obvious what kind of player he is, and I for one can’t wait to see what he can do when he’s not up against established internationals every week, playing for a manager who trusts in his ability. You have to be a more rounded player these days, look at how much defensive work most of the forwards we've played against get though. It's a flaw, so he needs to toughen up and/or do other things very well to make up for it. As for saying not being tactically isn't part of his game, that's a very different matter. If he can't execute the plan, he shouldn't be on the pitch. NB: I said 'if'. I'm far from convinced, but will be delighted to be proven wrong. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on May 6, 2019 9:23:51 GMT 1
He needs to get more aggressive, more assertive, more involved, more confident and more aware of where he should be when we have the ball and when we don’t. He also needs to improve his fitness so he can hit top speed more often and for longer.
In some of these areas he really needs to improve, particularly as the opposition will be a lot more physical in the championship and he could get kicked out of games.
But his crossing is superb, he can pass and dribble and had a good scoring record in France. And of all those wingers we’ve had who could do the dirty work, none of them could have scored that goal yesterday.
Roberts, Pilkington, VLP, Scannell, Lolley, Ince, Patterson, everyone else we’ve had under Hoyle, none of them would’ve had the pace to sprint in behind Luke Shaw and pressure him into that mistake. None of them would’ve even tried.
Ironically for all the shit he gets, maybe Quaner is the only one that would’ve tried but he wouldn’t have been quite quick enough.
And that pace, allied with good technique and his composure and crossing, is what we’ve paid so much for. Yes we’ve paid over the odds and for me it’s 50/50 whether he makes it here, but we’ve bought on that potential that has a higher ceiling than any of those other wingers.
By the way, Lolley and Roberts were equally as powderpuff as Mbenza. But Mbenza has physicality they don’t, so hopefully with some good coaching and more experience he’ll improve on that.
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 9:28:49 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 9:28:49 GMT 1
He needs to get more aggressive, more assertive, more involved, more confident and more aware of where he should be when we have the ball and when we don’t. He also needs to improve his fitness so he can hit top speed more often and for longer. In some of these areas he really needs to improve, particularly as the opposition will be a lot more physical in the championship and he could get kicked out of games. But his crossing is superb, he can pass and dribble and had a good scoring record in France. And of all those wingers we’ve had who could do the dirty work, none of them could have scored that goal yesterday. Roberts, Pilkington, VLP, Scannell, Lolley, Ince, Patterson, everyone else we’ve had under Hoyle, none of them would’ve had the pace to sprint in behind Luke Shaw and pressure him into that mistake. None of them would’ve even tried. Ironically for all the shit he gets, maybe Quaner is the only one that would’ve tried but he wouldn’t have been quite quick enough. And that pace, allied with good technique and his composure and crossing, is what we’ve paid so much for. Yes we’ve paid over the odds and for me it’s 50/50 whether he makes it here, but we’ve bought on that potential that has a higher ceiling than any of those other wingers. By the way, Lolley and Roberts were equally as powderpuff as Mbenza. But Mbenza has physicality they don’t, so hopefully with some good coaching and more experience he’ll improve on that. At Championship level he should be very good and gives him chance to build his confidence. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two forwards. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 10:35:20 GMT 1
I disagree. He doesn’t tackle very often and he’s not highly tactically aware, but that’s not his game. We need to move away from the idea that all attacking players have to get stuck in and concentrate on the clean sheet. It’s plainly obvious what kind of player he is, and I for one can’t wait to see what he can do when he’s not up against established internationals every week, playing for a manager who trusts in his ability. You have to be a more rounded player these days, look at how much defensive work most of the forwards we've played against get though. It's a flaw, so he needs to toughen up and/or do other things very well to make up for it. As for saying not being tactically isn't part of his game, that's a very different matter. If he can't execute the plan, he shouldn't be on the pitch. NB: I said 'if'. I'm far from convinced, but will be delighted to be proven wrong. I meant tactically aware defensively. He does what he’s good at, and given the manager isn’t ranting at him I suspect it’s whats being asked of him. Under a previous manager we had a situation where players were demanded to be this all round model footballer, getting back and doing the defensive work, but it was to the detriment of their freedom of expression moving forwards, I suspect next season when we’re not up against players significantly better than ours every week we’ll see the benefits of concentrating on what you’re good at, rather than watering the peaks down to fill the troughs. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 6, 2019 10:46:47 GMT 1
So we now need our wingers to be quick, skilful, contribute goals and assists, and nail the opposition like Darren Bullock Good luck to Phil, Jan and co finding one of them in the summer That's Kachunga fucked on all fronts then but he's free from criticism on here 😒 Who was our top scorer last time we played in the championship? |
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Post by Tinpot on May 6, 2019 10:55:18 GMT 1
For me, Mbenza looked more involved yesterday, didn't seem to be hiding quite so much. He's also big & strong enough that he should be able to scare the crap out of defenders, brushing off tough challenges, yet he doesn't. It seems to me to be a mental block. Whether it's one that he can overcome - or whether he even wants to overcome it - I don't know. Maybe he'd prefer to be in a less physical league. Maybe he'll spend this summer focusing on getting his head in a space where he is willing to fight a bit more.
If he's still here next season we'll find out. I wouldn't be signing him on a permanent deal though if we're not obliged to.
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 11:45:26 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on May 6, 2019 11:45:26 GMT 1
You have to be a more rounded player these days, look at how much defensive work most of the forwards we've played against get though. It's a flaw, so he needs to toughen up and/or do other things very well to make up for it. As for saying not being tactically isn't part of his game, that's a very different matter. If he can't execute the plan, he shouldn't be on the pitch. NB: I said 'if'. I'm far from convinced, but will be delighted to be proven wrong. I meant tactically aware defensively. He does what he’s good at, and given the manager isn’t ranting at him I suspect it’s whats being asked of him. Under a previous manager we had a situation where players were demanded to be this all round model footballer, getting back and doing the defensive work, but it was to the detriment of their freedom of expression moving forwards, I suspect next season when we’re not up against players significantly better than ours every week we’ll see the benefits of concentrating on what you’re good at, rather than watering the peaks down to fill the troughs. I agree to fair degree, as he won't be up against as good and athletic players. I also don't expect a Darren Bullock, maybe not even a VLP defensively. Just at the moment, for me his negatives clearly outweigh the positives. I am not writing him off though, age is on his side and we've seen enough players look totally different from one season to the next (e.g. Dalton). |
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 11:46:48 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on May 6, 2019 11:46:48 GMT 1
For me, Mbenza looked more involved yesterday, didn't seem to be hiding quite so much. He's also big & strong enough that he should be able to scare the crap out of defenders, brushing off tough challenges, yet he doesn't. It seems to me to be a mental block. Whether it's one that he can overcome - or whether he even wants to overcome it - I don't know. Maybe he'd prefer to be in a less physical league. Maybe he'll spend this summer focusing on getting his head in a space where he is willing to fight a bit more. If he's still here next season we'll find out. I wouldn't be signing him on a permanent deal though if we're not obliged to. I originally liked that, but then read your last sentence. Keep up 😄 |
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 11:52:01 GMT 1
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Post by townatheart on May 6, 2019 11:52:01 GMT 1
For me, Mbenza looked more involved yesterday, didn't seem to be hiding quite so much. He's also big & strong enough that he should be able to scare the crap out of defenders, brushing off tough challenges, yet he doesn't. It seems to me to be a mental block. Whether it's one that he can overcome - or whether he even wants to overcome it - I don't know. Maybe he'd prefer to be in a less physical league. Maybe he'll spend this summer focusing on getting his head in a space where he is willing to fight a bit more. If he's still here next season we'll find out. I wouldn't be signing him on a permanent deal though if we're not obliged to. Fully agree with that (but yes check on your last sentance 😉) |
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Mbenza
May 6, 2019 11:57:27 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on May 6, 2019 11:57:27 GMT 1
That's Kachunga fucked on all fronts then but he's free from criticism on here 😒 Who was our top scorer last time we played in the championship? Ah, the season of his career. He'd done nowt before that season and nowt since. I wouldn't hold my breath that he could repeat it either. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 6, 2019 12:14:26 GMT 1
For me, Mbenza looked more involved yesterday, didn't seem to be hiding quite so much. He's also big & strong enough that he should be able to scare the crap out of defenders, brushing off tough challenges, yet he doesn't. It seems to me to be a mental block. Whether it's one that he can overcome - or whether he even wants to overcome it - I don't know. Maybe he'd prefer to be in a less physical league. Maybe he'll spend this summer focusing on getting his head in a space where he is willing to fight a bit more. If he's still here next season we'll find out. I wouldn't be signing him on a permanent deal though if we're not obliged to. Fully agree with that (but yes check on your last sentance 😉) I keep reading conflicting reports. Some say we're obliged to sign him & that the deal was only done the way it was because of Montpellier's tax situation. Others say that we're not obliged to sign him, and only the fee (should we wish to take the option up) is set. I've seen nowt from a reliable source confirming that we have made a decision either way on whethr he'll be here next season. I still don't know which version is true. Edit: I wasn't at the Q&A & missed kongolo's post earlier on this thread. As I was saying, Mbenza is fucking brilliant  . |
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Post by Tinpot on May 6, 2019 12:25:25 GMT 1
Who was our top scorer last time we played in the championship? Ah, the season of his career. He'd done nowt before that season and nowt since. I wouldn't hold my breath that he could repeat it either. I understood he did well at Paderborn but didn't settle at Ingolstadt. |
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Post by htfcsince70 on May 6, 2019 15:06:30 GMT 1
Delighted that the lad scored - just after I had said "How the hell is he one of our players!" Soft, no idea of how to play the game - follows others into spaces and is always looking towards the bench as though to say - what do you want me to do now? Where shall I run? He's quick and not the finished article and this is where my hope and optimism lies - that he can be coached into being a good footballer. At this moment in time though and despite his goal yesterday I still think he has been a waste of money - how much exactly did he cost?
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