Where is the the money Phil?

[Tinpot]

Aug 7, 2019 21:09:23 GMT 1 mallyb said:

Aug 7, 2019 18:38:05 GMT 1 @jameshudd72 said:

Pity you don't support Blackpool, you would at least have some idea what you're talking about. That after what we've enjoyed for the last ten years is an absolutely disgraceful comment.

What has the last 10 years got to do with where all our premier league money is? The Oystons took the premier league money and didn't invest, something that appears to be happening here. People like you did advocate in January that we don't spend any money but save it to have a better transfer kitty in Summer. Just imagine if we had blown the summer budget in January on painting the goal posts or something. Obviously this transfer window is tricky, lets look again in January, then it will be tricky because we are bottom half and can't shift our players on, maybe 4 transfer windows, remember who we are.

Either you know something I don't, or you have no idea what happened at Blackpool.

I may be proven wrong over the next few years but for now it looks to me like you're being a massive fucking drama queen.

[Million Dollar Babies]

Don't jump down my throat at this question but here goes

Would Dean Hoyle have expected Town to pay him back the £50million he put in to the club if we didnt get promoted to the Premier League? Or would he have written it off?

I always assumed he was prepared to lose what he was putting in because he was a fan and could afford it.

[tockyterrier]

I can't believe the number of people who are "hard of understanding" on here.

We went up with a squad with about £8m and come back down with a squad worth about £120m and wages to match.

We are investing in a £20m training complex and spent £5m+ on the stadium.

We know the club owed DH £50m and we've been told that THIS YEARS parachute payment is accounted for (including a bridging loan from DH to cover the gap newborn the money arriving from the Premier League) NOT ALL of the parachute payments.

So it seems that many on here are saying that DH who got us to the premier league, secured us an income of around £60m parachute payments and a squad worth £100m more than it was two years doesn't deserve to have his £50m back.

Or accusing PH of "using it to buy the club" which other than the players had no assets other than the training ground which is secured through DH.

What if DH said, tell you what Phil, I'll take my £50m cm and you can have the club for nowt. But any players sakes need to be invested in the club abs the secured income used to cover the £5m a year shortfall I was funding every year. Where is the drama, the problem or the conspiracy? How are we any worse off than we were under DH?

You are all fecking deluded.

[Tinpot]

Aug 7, 2019 21:43:02 GMT 1 sandgrounder said:

Don’t want to damage the Dean Hoyle Saint status but his track record on appointments isn’t great. So why is his selection of the new chair expected to be different?

if the stars haven’t aligned then why Phil?

obviously companies house shows the charges DH has applied and can’t question his investment over the years but he is a businessman and understandably will want to protect his and his families interests. Even more so given the morality check he will have had with his illness.

PH business is about being creative around funding and using others money. The numbers don’t stack unless the last 12 months have been reckless, which, would be inconsistent with previous management of the club.

lets see about future ownership of the stadium canal etc. 

All this is easily resolved with some transparency and sure DH doesn’t want his reputation and legacy tarnishing. 

Time for people to front up. 

Isn't it? Every season since he took over has been an improvement over the last, barring 2. Last season & Wagner's first.

Ternent was appointed by Davy
LC was appointed by Hoyle & took us from being relegation fodder to promotion candidates
Larry got us over the line when it looked like we were going to fall at the last hurdle.
Robins kept us up when we were in freefall.
Powell improved our position vs Robins despite having players sold from under him.
Wagner was the first manager to have us finishing lower than his predecessor in his first season, but the next 2 weren't so bad, were they?

Which leaves Siewert. For me, the jury is out on him (although I accept that some have made up their minds). Even if it turns out that he's crap though, he'll be the first to do a genuinely shit job here since Stan Ternent.

[villageidiot]

Aug 7, 2019 22:09:25 GMT 1 tockyterrier said:

I can't believe the number of people who are "hard of understanding" on here.

We went up with a squad with about £8m and come back down with a squad worth about £120m and wages to match.

We are investing in a £20m training complex and spent £5m+ on the stadium.

We know the club owed DH £50m and we've been told that THIS YEARS parachute payment is accounted for (including a bridging loan from DH to cover the gap newborn the money arriving from the Premier League) NOT ALL of the parachute payments.

So it seems that many on here are saying that DH who got us to the premier league, secured us an income of around £60m parachute payments and a squad worth £100m more than it was two years doesn't deserve to have his £50m back.

Or accusing PH of "using it to buy the club" which other than the players had no assets other than the training ground which is secured through DH.

What if DH said, tell you what Phil, I'll take my £50m cm and you can have the club for nowt. But any players sakes need to be invested in the club abs the secured income used to cover the £5m a year shortfall I was funding every year. Where is the drama, the problem or the conspiracy? How are we any worse off than we were under DH?

You are all fecking deluded.

we made 23m in first year in prem.. we have to have made more last year given no one off ground improvements and no staying up player bonuses .. so a net 50m profit.. surely that repays DH his £50m back... so taking your assumption that Phil has been given the club for nowt and the parachute money is accounted for - where does that leave the profit from player sales this summer?

Not picking an argument - you seem to be more genned up on the finances than most - so is a genuine question

[terrier2019]

Aug 7, 2019 22:41:08 GMT 1 villageidiot said:

Aug 7, 2019 22:09:25 GMT 1 tockyterrier said:

I can't believe the number of people who are "hard of understanding" on here.

We went up with a squad with about £8m and come back down with a squad worth about £120m and wages to match.

We are investing in a £20m training complex and spent £5m+ on the stadium.

We know the club owed DH £50m and we've been told that THIS YEARS parachute payment is accounted for (including a bridging loan from DH to cover the gap newborn the money arriving from the Premier League) NOT ALL of the parachute payments.

So it seems that many on here are saying that DH who got us to the premier league, secured us an income of around £60m parachute payments and a squad worth £100m more than it was two years doesn't deserve to have his £50m back.

Or accusing PH of "using it to buy the club" which other than the players had no assets other than the training ground which is secured through DH.

What if DH said, tell you what Phil, I'll take my £50m cm and you can have the club for nowt. But any players sakes need to be invested in the club abs the secured income used to cover the £5m a year shortfall I was funding every year. Where is the drama, the problem or the conspiracy? How are we any worse off than we were under DH?

You are all fecking deluded.

we made 23m in first year in prem.. we have to have made more last year given no one off ground improvements and no staying up player bonuses .. so a net 50m profit.. surely that repays DH his £50m back... so taking your assumption that Phil has been given the club for nowt and the parachute money is accounted for - where does that leave the profit from player sales this summer?

Not picking an argument - you seem to be more genned up on the finances than most - so is a genuine question

maybe deans taken is money back thats why where skint!!!

[bigtruck]

Aug 7, 2019 23:13:06 GMT 1 terrier2019 said:

Aug 7, 2019 22:41:08 GMT 1 villageidiot said:

we made 23m in first year in prem.. we have to have made more last year given no one off ground improvements and no staying up player bonuses .. so a net 50m profit.. surely that repays DH his £50m back... so taking your assumption that Phil has been given the club for nowt and the parachute money is accounted for - where does that leave the profit from player sales this summer?

Not picking an argument - you seem to be more genned up on the finances than most - so is a genuine question

maybe deans taken is money back thats why where skint!!!

He’s definitely wanting it back. That I can tell you.

[Baby-face Frankenstein]

Aug 7, 2019 22:01:49 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

Don't jump down my throat at this question but here goes

Would Dean Hoyle have expected Town to pay him back the £50million he put in to the club if we didnt get promoted to the Premier League? Or would he have written it off?

I always assumed he was prepared to lose what he was putting in because he was a fan and could afford it.

Good point, and it's easy to see where you're coming from - could he really have been paid back at all without the PL seasons? So I'm guessing he wasn't expecting it back, initially at least.

[drbaldric]

Read through all this rather depressingly.

For those that wonder where the money is gone, how much do you think that the players are paid?

Simple truth. A colleagues lad plays for a solid, well run, championship club. Starts most weeks. He gets 15000 a week. More if he plays. More if he scores. No chance of being anywhere near the premiership that club.

How much do you think Mooy, Mounie, Schindler, Pritchard, Hogg etc get paid? At least 50k a week in the prem. At least 2.5 million annually. That's each. We've still got to pay their wages.
Lossl, depoitre, durm will have been on the same. It was said that Wagner earned more than any one of the players.
Sure, there's been a relegation reduction but our wage bill will be huge. Add in bonuses, agents fees, keeping sky happy with a new box, ridiculous seat requirements in the boxes and our money is gone.

We may have made 68 million profit in two prem seasons. That's gobbled up quickly when your income drops and costs stay similar. Quite happy with those we've lost and those we've brought in.

My concerns are Phil - as he's not Dean and seems to be wealthy more on luck than hard graft. And Jan, who really has one of the best squads in the league but really needs to learn how to use it to an advantage.

No one is coming in. Certainly not for a fee. Why would you? Prices will be inflated. A loan left back is about all we should need if we have a coaching staff with nouse.

Monday was shite. A silly error. A goal that may have been offside. A profound lack of confidence in front of goal from a team that has none after a shite relegation season.

We beat QPR and Lincoln - possible, even likely - and suicide watch on here deteriorates rapidly.

[iangreaves]

Aug 8, 2019 0:27:04 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 7, 2019 23:13:06 GMT 1 terrier2019 said:

maybe deans taken is money back thats why where skint!!!

He’s definitely wanting it back. That I can tell you.

Why shouldn't he?

[slackjaw]

Aug 7, 2019 21:29:57 GMT 1 @jameshudd72 said:

Aug 7, 2019 19:16:50 GMT 1 slackjaw said:

All bar one is most of that in the premier league isn’t it? And that’s exactly what I said why do you find that difficult to understand? 
No I mean games against Newcastle,Bournemouth,Brighton and even Everton who were on such bad away form the Everton fans were questioning their manager and expecting a defeat.
And I’m not taking about Wagner he’s history I’m taking about Jan who is now our manager,again not difficult to understand unless you’re a moron 👍

So 'even Everton' who finished 8th and was Siewerts first match in charge. What about Wolves away who finished even higher than 'even Everton'.

Footballs a funny old game Greavsie.

Wolves away was Wagner,like I said he’s history.5 points from a possible 48 is shit no matter how you want to dress it up.
Anyway you’re boring me now but have a wonderful day!

[bigtruck]

Aug 8, 2019 6:28:45 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Aug 8, 2019 0:27:04 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

He’s definitely wanting it back. That I can tell you.

Why shouldn't he?

Not saying he shouldn’t. But if he wants it back straight away, why sell the club to someone who doesn’t have a pot to piss in

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2019 6:36:16 GMT 1 slackjaw said:

Aug 7, 2019 21:29:57 GMT 1 @jameshudd72 said:

So 'even Everton' who finished 8th and was Siewerts first match in charge. What about Wolves away who finished even higher than 'even Everton'.

Footballs a funny old game Greavsie.

Wolves away was Wagner,like I said he’s history.5 points from a possible 48 is shit no matter how you want to dress it up.
Anyway you’re boring me now but have a wonderful day!

Wolves at home, my mistake. I won't just have a wonderful day I shall have a wonderful weekend, looking forward to QPR win lose or draw.

[dugnet]

I think there is one thing we can agree on....

From being completely comfortable and understanding what the club was doing and the boundaries it was looking to work within we are now somewhere between confused and concerned about what's happening. We don't really know what to expect and we don't really understand on what basis PH has taken ownership.

What have we been told?


PH has enough funding to run the club.

I would note we haven't been explicitly told at what level this will be. Self supporting Championship level within ffp??

It will be a tough window this time with deals running to the wire. If players leave we have replacements identified.

I guess we'll see what happens today.

There is a 3 window transition.

Ok as I have posted elsewhere, from what to what and with what outcome?

Jan is a good coach, I have every faith in him.

As my pal said last night, I would ask what has he seen in Siewert to date that would support this view.

We now also have this peculiar request for an investigation into the deal between DH and PH. This seems very odd and I wouldn't get too excited, I am naturally wary of politicians and their motives. However who would have thought that our club would have such scrutiny? It beggars belief that in an era of what was wholly positive and with integrity in spades that such a question should even be raised.

As each day passes there are more questions and concerns. Given we have just had the most successful period in circa 50 years and enjoyed unimaginable revenue streams that suggests that we have got something wrong.

I don't see this playing out quickly but more disappointingly I don't think I can see any realistic prospect of the club returning to Premier League any time soon, if at all. The ethos seems to be, at best, we had a great ride but it's best we return to what we know. And maybe that's the only option available to us, without getting into a financial pickle, but it doesn't make it any less disappointing. That said I'd be happier if things were more transparent and like they used to be. At the moment it's all words that don't really add up to much and we're left guessing. It's like PH doesn't want to come out and say...

"I haven't got masses of cash to support a challenge for promotion again. I am having to re balance the books, better players maybe sold too. The model is to invest in people who have promise and work hard. I know people expected us to move to a different level having been in the Premier League but the reality is that the money only goes so far and we can't risk the future of the club".

That is what I deduce is happening and I would respect Phil much more if he just said it as it is. At the moment it's implied at best and unclear at worst.

Overall, and I've posted this before, or problems stem from a poor strategy after the window closed in August 17. We should have had a clear coherent plan then, with contingencies for relegation, but it appears we didn't do this. I also wonder if trying to secure foreign/big investment when the opportunity was possibly there was the way to go?

The fact is that we are where we are. PH needs to be more transparent about what is going on, if he had a Q&A now the questions would be far more pointed.

As a long standing fan I can accept the realities of our position, if we have to be financially prudent sobeit, but tell me in black and white what to expect.

I will be honest too and say that although the Premier League was a tough watch last season but the fact we were there, we played against top players and had such a platform to show what the club was about was a great experience. To think that the moment has passed and we can't see a path back is a little disheartening. You can't get over the feeling that an opportunity to move the club forward has been missed.

I suppose if the team looked capable of making a challenge this would all be easier to accept. Monday night was sadly anything but encouraging and you have to say that all the decisions taken ultimately are reflected on the pitch. That's what it's all about really, as DH said himself "it's not rocket science it's about putting the ball in the net".

UTT

[themanfromatlantis]

Aug 8, 2019 7:07:18 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 8, 2019 6:28:45 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Why shouldn't he?

Not saying he shouldn’t. But if he wants it back straight away, why sell the club to someone who doesn’t have a pot to piss in

He might not have a pot to piss in, but apparently he has a big parachute that he's dragging out the door slowly as there's something caught up in the canopy. 😁

Surprised no-one's put one of those classic villain pulling a bag of cash images and doctored it to look like a parachute. 😉

[terrier2019]

Aug 8, 2019 7:07:18 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 8, 2019 6:28:45 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Why shouldn't he?

Not saying he shouldn’t. But if he wants it back straight away, why sell the club to someone who doesn’t have a pot to piss in

exactley its taken hoyle years to build up is god like status yud think he was an all conquering messiha way people go on about him on here .end day he a businessman and probley as took is money back!!.my main concern is who hes sold it to the lack of tranceparency about the sale and the finances to take us forward!!.any way i think by 5 o clock tonight you will see the clubs ambition for the season either way👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑🤪🐑👏🐑👏🐑

[zoso]

Aug 8, 2019 7:07:18 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 8, 2019 6:28:45 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Why shouldn't he?

Not saying he shouldn’t. But if he wants it back straight away, why sell the club to someone who doesn’t have a pot to piss in

How do you know he doesn't have a pot to piss in?

[HuddsTerrier]

Aug 8, 2019 2:03:46 GMT 1 drbaldric said:

Read through all this rather depressingly.

For those that wonder where the money is gone, how much do you think that the players are paid?

Simple truth. A colleagues lad plays for a solid, well run, championship club. Starts most weeks. He gets 15000 a week. More if he plays. More if he scores. No chance of being anywhere near the premiership that club.

How much do you think Mooy, Mounie, Schindler, Pritchard, Hogg etc get paid? At least 50k a week in the prem. At least 2.5 million annually. That's each. We've still got to pay their wages.
Lossl, depoitre, durm will have been on the same. It was said that Wagner earned more than any one of the players.
Sure, there's been a relegation reduction but our wage bill will be huge. Add in bonuses, agents fees, keeping sky happy with a new box, ridiculous seat requirements in the boxes and our money is gone.

We may have made 68 million profit in two prem seasons. That's gobbled up quickly when your income drops and costs stay similar. Quite happy with those we've lost and those we've brought in.

My concerns are Phil - as he's not Dean and seems to be wealthy more on luck than hard graft. And Jan, who really has one of the best squads in the league but really needs to learn how to use it to an advantage.

No one is coming in. Certainly not for a fee. Why would you? Prices will be inflated. A loan left back is about all we should need if we have a coaching staff with nouse.

Monday was shite. A silly error. A goal that may have been offside. A profound lack of confidence in front of goal from a team that has none after a shite relegation season.

We beat QPR and Lincoln - possible, even likely - and suicide watch on here deteriorates rapidly.

So in summary our revenue was £200m plus for the two years in the prem

Say £90m for the next two years - £80m parachute plus regular income

£20m profit on billing and smith who were here in 2015

And for that near third of a billion pounds we managed to create one of the worse sides to grace the PL in 2018/19

[tockyterrier]

Aug 7, 2019 22:41:08 GMT 1 villageidiot said:

Aug 7, 2019 22:09:25 GMT 1 tockyterrier said:

I can't believe the number of people who are "hard of understanding" on here.

We went up with a squad with about £8m and come back down with a squad worth about £120m and wages to match.

We are investing in a £20m training complex and spent £5m+ on the stadium.

We know the club owed DH £50m and we've been told that THIS YEARS parachute payment is accounted for (including a bridging loan from DH to cover the gap newborn the money arriving from the Premier League) NOT ALL of the parachute payments.

So it seems that many on here are saying that DH who got us to the premier league, secured us an income of around £60m parachute payments and a squad worth £100m more than it was two years doesn't deserve to have his £50m back.

Or accusing PH of "using it to buy the club" which other than the players had no assets other than the training ground which is secured through DH.

What if DH said, tell you what Phil, I'll take my £50m cm and you can have the club for nowt. But any players sakes need to be invested in the club abs the secured income used to cover the £5m a year shortfall I was funding every year. Where is the drama, the problem or the conspiracy? How are we any worse off than we were under DH?

You are all fecking deluded.

we made 23m in first year in prem.. we have to have made more last year given no one off ground improvements and no staying up player bonuses .. so a net 50m profit.. surely that repays DH his £50m back... so taking your assumption that Phil has been given the club for nowt and the parachute money is accounted for - where does that leave the profit from player sales this summer?

Not picking an argument - you seem to be more genned up on the finances than most - so is a genuine question

I'm not the accountant, so i dont know anything other than what has been said openly by Dean Holye and pieced together the info reported elsewhere.  But for example, the training ground complex was committed to once the third years parachute payment was secured by staying up. That will have accounted for just about all that profit made in year 1 will it not?


Profits from player sales. £15m from Billing and £4m from Smith. Probably paid in installements over 3 or 4 years and Billing only sold a week ago. No point spaffing it away just for the sake of it. The wage Bill was around £60M for the last two years, there were relegation clauses in the contracts, but the wage bill will not be anywhere near the £10M it was when we went up. (When DH was losing £5M a year)

We've lost the first game of the season against Derby. (Cardiff and Fulham also lost) because we gifted them a goal. They have been bankrolled like a premier league team for a decade, but all of a sudden we are chucking our toys out the pram and complaing there is no money.   it seems to me there are plenty on here that have turned in to deluded fans we dispised when we went up.   "we've been in the prem, we should be beating the like of these, we should be splashing the cash etc etc."

[townrwe]

Our very own mike ashley..... just without any dosh.

[bigtruck]

Aug 8, 2019 7:46:04 GMT 1 zoso said:

Aug 8, 2019 7:07:18 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Not saying he shouldn’t. But if he wants it back straight away, why sell the club to someone who doesn’t have a pot to piss in

How do you know he doesn't have a pot to piss in?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check companies house etc.

[Nickhudds.UTT]

The silence is deafening

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2019 8:26:56 GMT 1 tockyterrier said:

Aug 7, 2019 22:41:08 GMT 1 villageidiot said:

we made 23m in first year in prem.. we have to have made more last year given no one off ground improvements and no staying up player bonuses .. so a net 50m profit.. surely that repays DH his £50m back... so taking your assumption that Phil has been given the club for nowt and the parachute money is accounted for - where does that leave the profit from player sales this summer?

Not picking an argument - you seem to be more genned up on the finances than most - so is a genuine question

I'm not the accountant, so i dont know anything other than what has been said openly by Dean Holye and pieced together the info reported elsewhere.  But for example, the training ground complex was committed to once the third years parachute payment was secured by staying up. That will have accounted for just about all that profit made in year 1 will it not?


Profits from player sales. £15m from Billing and £4m from Smith. Probably paid in installements over 3 or 4 years and Billing only sold a week ago. No point spaffing it away just for the sake of it. The wage Bill was around £60M for the last two years, there were relegation clauses in the contracts, but the wage bill will not be anywhere near the £10M it was when we went up. (When DH was losing £5M a year)

We've lost the first game of the season against Derby. (Cardiff and Fulham also lost) because we gifted them a goal. They have been bankrolled like a premier league team for a decade, but all of a sudden we are chucking our toys out the pram and complaing there is no money.   it seems to me there are plenty on here that have turned in to deluded fans we dispised when we went up.   "we've been in the prem, we should be beating the like of these, we should be splashing the cash etc etc.".

well said too many on here and in general have there own agendas more s after Mondays game. Pathetic and over the top.what will happen or not happen will be but the club will move on. a pity it cannot leave a few behind

[Manx Terrier]

Aug 8, 2019 8:50:15 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 8, 2019 7:46:04 GMT 1 zoso said:

How do you know he doesn't have a pot to piss in?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check companies house etc.

Not sure how this would provide an answer but stand to be corrected

[Kenny irons]

You sure your not a Leeds Fan Phil Hodgkinson?

[zoso]

Aug 8, 2019 8:50:15 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 8, 2019 7:46:04 GMT 1 zoso said:

How do you know he doesn't have a pot to piss in?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check companies house etc.

Just out of interest then, how much is Dean Hoyle worth?

[Champers]

Aug 8, 2019 10:19:56 GMT 1 zoso said:

Aug 8, 2019 8:50:15 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check companies house etc.

Just out of interest then, how much is Dean Hoyle worth?

Thats easy - he's priceless.

[zoso]

Aug 8, 2019 8:53:13 GMT 1 Nickhudds.UTT said:

The silence is deafening

Which silence is that Nick?

[zoso]

Aug 8, 2019 10:22:23 GMT 1 Champers said:

Aug 8, 2019 10:19:56 GMT 1 zoso said:

Just out of interest then, how much is Dean Hoyle worth?

Thats easy - he's priceless.

Can't disagree with that!! 

[bigtruck]

Aug 8, 2019 9:01:26 GMT 1 Manx Terrier said:

Aug 8, 2019 8:50:15 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check companies house etc.

Not sure how this would provide an answer but stand to be corrected

In such as you can see the values of companies he owns. Granted you're not going to find his bank balance but common sense and logic allows you to "guesstimate" his value. Obviously the pot to piss in is all relative and a bit tongue in cheek. He's got a decent amount of money compared to 99% of us on here but no where near enough to buy a football club like town never mind financing the running of it afterwards.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.