Where is the the money Phil?

[Mastercracker]

Think about what you are saying. You are accusing a life long Town fan of fleecing money out of the club, to pay off another life long town fan and greatest chairman this club has had in all our lifetimes. Do you really think DH passed the baton onto PH knowing full well PH would pay him using the clubs own money?


Only this place could make that up. Absolutely retarded.

[Deleted]

Can someone make me an admin, this place needs an absolute cull

[blueandbrightside]

Aug 6, 2019 13:14:53 GMT 1 townrwe said:

Aug 6, 2019 13:02:53 GMT 1 blueandbrightside said:

So, fan and sponsor engagement isn’t, in your opinion, the job of the chairman unless the club is successful or winning promotion/cups? Also, based on you seeing him on the pitch for 5 mins, he’s not working hard, or class. Can you confirm what he was, or wasn’t, doing for the other 99.7% of yesterday to support this in any way?

Yeah he got up in the morning and went to his pure group business meeting, hchat ad lunch around 1pm, did a bit of pure paperwork. Rang some of his pals for a night in the directors box, took in the gravitas of been town chairman, when someone said whos putting the clappers out, grabbed a few spotty kids to stand next to green bins full of clappers without actually offering them to everyone, told the office staff to lay the paddy power stuff over the sprinklers, had a few jars with his pals whilst saying hey look im the chairman of this once premier league football club, asked the dj to pump up the music in the directors box, went to pitchside to take credit for sean jarvis' hard work with paddy power. Went back to the directors box to mine sweep some pots because he had run out of money and then jumped in colin bells blue audi for a lift home. 

Can you confirm that he was or wasnt doing this?

In other words “no I’ve nothing to back up what I said so I’ll try a smart arse reply” then. The people handing out the clappers where I went in were neither kids nor spotty so that statement was definitely incorrect, as well as derogatory.

[Maynardblue]

All PH has asked for is trust and a little patience. Getting the pitchforks out after one game isn't going to help anyone. The club is in good hands and on a sound financial footing. Come on we're better than this.

[Big Ern]

Aug 6, 2019 14:29:29 GMT 1 Maynardblue said:

All PH has asked for is trust and a little patience. Getting the pitchforks out after one game isn't going to help anyone. The club is in good hands and on a sound financial footing. Come on we're better than this.

I wouldnt so much say it's one game more like one transfer window. After 2 seasons in the premier league and selling 2 players for a combined 20 million is what we have brought in seriously all we can afford??

[Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier]

Aug 6, 2019 14:16:14 GMT 1 Mastercracker said:

Think about what you are saying. You are accusing a life long Town fan of fleecing money out of the club, to pay off another life long town fan and greatest chairman this club has had in all our lifetimes. Do you really think DH passed the baton onto PH knowing full well PH would pay him using the clubs own money?


Only this place could make that up. Absolutely retarded.

Your last comment sums up townrwe perfectly.

[Maynardblue]

Aug 6, 2019 14:32:46 GMT 1 Big Ern said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:29:29 GMT 1 Maynardblue said:

All PH has asked for is trust and a little patience. Getting the pitchforks out after one game isn't going to help anyone. The club is in good hands and on a sound financial footing. Come on we're better than this.

I wouldnt so much say it's one game more like one transfer window. After 2 seasons in the premier league and selling 2 players for a combined 20 million is what we have brought in seriously all we can afford??

That question needs putting to the previous administration.

[townrwe]

Aug 6, 2019 14:33:50 GMT 1 Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:16:14 GMT 1 Mastercracker said:

Think about what you are saying. You are accusing a life long Town fan of fleecing money out of the club, to pay off another life long town fan and greatest chairman this club has had in all our lifetimes. Do you really think DH passed the baton onto PH knowing full well PH would pay him using the clubs own money?


Only this place could make that up. Absolutely retarded.

Your last comment sums up townrwe perfectly.

Nowt to do with me the fleecing statements. Im more bothered about the lack of impact a new chairman is having. 

[themanfromatlantis]

Aug 6, 2019 14:41:00 GMT 1 townrwe said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:33:50 GMT 1 Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier said:

Your last comment sums up townrwe perfectly.

Nowt to do with me the fleecing statements. Im more bothered about the lack of impact a new chairman is having. 

I think you've been spoilt.

DH took over from some rather interesting incumbents, took us to somewhere many of us thought we'd not experience. So he's some big shoes to fill & he's inherited the club on a minor slide. Give the bloke time for goodness sake...

[shawsie]

I refrained from posting last night cos i knew it would be meltdown but have to ask why all the name calling and nasty abuse after 1 game ?!
If folks are looking for targets, can i suggest you try the players. They turned in the hopeless first 40 mins, not seiwert, hodgkinson, Hoyle, Jarvis et al.
It's high time some earned their substantial salaries - nobody knows the financial picture other than those with a direct stake in it as should be the case, but some of the abuse here is absolutely pathetic.
Take a deep breath and move on......last night was horrible but it's not the end of the world!

[dugnet]

I don't think anyone thinks anything underhand has gone on at all, and most will be sensible enough to realise we must have budget but....Unless things change drastically on the pitch something needs to be addressed. This view that there isn't much wrong needs challenging before we end up wasting the Premier League legacy.

I don't expect us to spend millions but I expect a better return than the disjointed, hapless (first half) and predictable/laboured (2nd half) performance.

The fact is we have had an injection of nearly £300m over the past 2 and coming 3 years and we look not much better than when Chris Powell and Mark Robins were in charge. Now some may say that is a bit melodramatic but I would argue, based on last night alone (not forgetting the challenging 5 months from January) it is highly accurate. For the money spent that isn't good enough. There were no major injuries and we have not lost any "key" players.

PH needs to take stock and wake up before we waste more cash and have diminishing assets on the pitch. Carrying on as before, which is what we have done isn't cutting it at the moment. Unless Siewert proves me completely wrong, and I will be delighted if he does, PH needs to show what he is made of and take action. He also needs to be absolutely clear what he expects. If that costs a few quid then sobeit, but it isn't cheap now and it doesn't look great and that's not a good return.

Welcome to big time chairmanship Mr Hodgkinson - let's see what you're made of.

[tobbyg]

Aug 6, 2019 14:41:00 GMT 1 townrwe said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:33:50 GMT 1 Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier said:

Your last comment sums up townrwe perfectly.

Nowt to do with me the fleecing statements. Im more bothered about the lack of impact a new chairman is having. 

Statement still stands true though no matter how you look at it.

[dugnet]

Aug 6, 2019 14:47:02 GMT 1 shawsie said:

I refrained from posting last night cos i knew it would be meltdown but have to ask why all the name calling and nasty abuse after 1 game ?!
If folks are looking for targets, can i suggest you try the players. They turned in the hopeless first 40 mins, not seiwert, hodgkinson, Hoyle, Jarvis et al.
It's high time some earned their substantial salaries - nobody knows the financial picture other than those with a direct stake in it as should be the case, but some of the abuse here is absolutely pathetic.
Take a deep breath and move on......last night was horrible but it's not the end of the world!

I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace.

In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind.

The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort.

The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same.

Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility.

I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge.

[townrwe]

Aug 6, 2019 14:55:38 GMT 1 tobbyg said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:41:00 GMT 1 townrwe said:

Nowt to do with me the fleecing statements. Im more bothered about the lack of impact a new chairman is having. 

Statement still stands true though no matter how you look at it.

Maybe you would like to give me a breakdown the footballing impact the board have had this summer with 2 days and 1 hour until the transfer window shuts? I look forward to a long and exhaustive list.

[townrwe]

Aug 6, 2019 15:04:59 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:47:02 GMT 1 shawsie said:

I refrained from posting last night cos i knew it would be meltdown but have to ask why all the name calling and nasty abuse after 1 game ?!
If folks are looking for targets, can i suggest you try the players. They turned in the hopeless first 40 mins, not seiwert, hodgkinson, Hoyle, Jarvis et al.
It's high time some earned their substantial salaries - nobody knows the financial picture other than those with a direct stake in it as should be the case, but some of the abuse here is absolutely pathetic.
Take a deep breath and move on......last night was horrible but it's not the end of the world!

I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace.

In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind.

The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort.

The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same.

Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility.

I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge.

Agree with what you say, but i would add that we are trying the same things and rather than getting the same results we are actually going backwards, on and off the pitch. 

[terrier2019]

Aug 6, 2019 15:05:49 GMT 1 townrwe said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:55:38 GMT 1 tobbyg said:

Statement still stands true though no matter how you look at it.

Maybe you would like to give me a breakdown the footballing impact the board have had this summer with 2 days and 1 hour until the transfer window shuts? I look forward to a long and exhaustive list.

people seem to forget that under hoyle we where a selling club and thats what where gonna end up again.lack of investment in playing side is gonna cost us again.we maybe have been spoilt being in premiership for couple years and our expectations are maybe a bit hogher than we should be.but if hoyle ad invested in forward line we would probs still be in premiership 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑

[mallyb]

Aug 6, 2019 13:13:13 GMT 1 @superstevieharper said:

I'm sorry, but even for DATM some comments on this thread are very poor. People are entitled to their opinions and if football directors, managers and players aren't performing well then they can expect criticism. However, some comments in this thread call into question the personal integrity of Hodgkinson and that is poor given that there's no justification.

Concerning the money - to give a very basic financial analysis.

In the last accounts (the first PL season) we made a £23M profit. Our revenue was £125M, which means we were spending £102M.
Where did we spend £102M? £48M in transfer fees divided over 4 years according to you so £12M. Where is the other £90M?
Not saying there isn't a valid answer to this but using bulk numbers like you are doing isn't clear.

Given that last season, we would still have been paying transfer fees from our first PL season and added some more expensive (but underwhelming) signings, it's likely that our costs were higher last season and our profit was less. We'll find out when the accounts are released.

We also made some substantial sales last year (Ince £12M, Malone £5M) which because we only just bought Mbenza this summer mean we probably brought in as much as we spent so cost neutral.

This season, our revenue will reduce by at least £50M (probably significantly more). So we need to make significant cut backs to avoid making a sizeable loss. If costs stayed at £102M then we'd make a £27M loss and be in breach of FFP. Assuming we don't go up, revenue will reduce again next season, the season after and the season after that so we'd quickly be in Bolton territory.

Players off the wage bill: Billing, Smith, Sobhi, Lossl, Depoitre, Lowe, Durm, Williams, Puncheon
40% relegation reduction apparently

You may say that it's impossible for costs to be so high when we haven't paid hefty fees this summer. However, for accounting purposes, transfers are recorded over the duration of a players contract (so if you sign someone for £20M on a 4 year deal, then it's accounted as £5M per year for 4 years), so we are still paying transfer fees from our 2 PL seasons. This also works the same with income for players sold.

Yes we've cut our wage bill, but probably not by enough to offset a £50M+ reduction in revenue. We'd have to reduce costs by 25-30% to break even this season - even more if we wanted to free up money for a summer spending spree.

So, whilst we may have as much as £75M revenue to play with this season - it's very plausible that the majority of that (or even more than that) is tied up in wages, paying off previous transfer fees and meeting ongoing obligations. Hence, we need to sell players before we can buy. We MAY now be able to buy players using revenue from Smith and Billing - but equally those sales may not have generated enough (we certainly haven't sold as many players as we all expected).

In addition to all this, if Deano wants to take back the £50M he's loaned the club over the years, then he'd be perfectly within his rights. However, that would tighten our financial position further.

It's impossible to give exact answers without the current financial information. However, it's clear from previous accounts and the rules for parachute payments that we are going to have to be very careful with our financial management, or we could be in real trouble in 2-3 years time.

Some of the criticism on this thread is completely ignorant and it's frankly pathetic that people are questioning the integrity of directors, just because they can't understand the basics of a balance sheet. Hodgkinson isn't beyond criticism and he will make mistakes in his tenure, but to accuse him of trousering money when the most recent financial information backs up what he's saying just isn't okay.

It's ok kicking the can down the road talking about 3 transfer window nonsense. Just like it was harder to attract players in January because we were going down it will be harder this coming January if we are not competitive. Lesson of last summer clearly not learnt. This summer our stock was highest and the best chance to bring in players to give us a lift.

You're moaning now because of a lack of signings. If we spent millions and it meant the price of your season ticket went up, then you'd moan about that. If we made signings and kept season ticket prices low and went to the wall, then you'd be the first outside the ground calling for the director's heads. The first job of directors is to keep a business running and that's what they're doing.

Doesn't need to go up we have generated £300M in prem money parachute and player sales. Where is it?

[slackjaw]

Aug 6, 2019 12:27:43 GMT 1 thrice said:

Aug 6, 2019 12:19:27 GMT 1 slackjaw said:

If Jan can’t get the best out of a squad including Mooy,Grant,Pritchard,Schindler,Hogg,VLP,Mounie,Kongolo then he probably isn’t the right man for the job.
While we’ve left ourselves short at fullback I’m not sure I’d give any money to spend.
He’s a massively inexperienced manager but apparently a good coach who’s been allowed to bring in his own experienced coach he hasn’t really got any excuses.Imo he won’t ever have a squad as good as this one.

Slightly worrying that last seasons woes were supposedly down the players downing tools on him but Jan gets left with the same pack to play with.

Good point,but to be fair they didn’t down tools last night and I’m probably the players biggest critic for doing that,and have been called out many times on here for saying so.
Its still imo a pretty decent squad for this level and I was lead to believe the squad harmony was great again although it doesn’t seem that way to me.Maybe it’s a job that’s just too soon for him?

[shawsie]

Aug 6, 2019 15:04:59 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:47:02 GMT 1 shawsie said:

I refrained from posting last night cos i knew it would be meltdown but have to ask why all the name calling and nasty abuse after 1 game ?!
If folks are looking for targets, can i suggest you try the players. They turned in the hopeless first 40 mins, not seiwert, hodgkinson, Hoyle, Jarvis et al.
It's high time some earned their substantial salaries - nobody knows the financial picture other than those with a direct stake in it as should be the case, but some of the abuse here is absolutely pathetic.
Take a deep breath and move on......last night was horrible but it's not the end of the world!

I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace.

In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind.

The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort.

The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same.

Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility.

I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge.

You wouldnt fault the players?!
Unbeaten in pre season with a squad containing many who have 25 plus prem appearances each and we arent blaming the players for last nights first half against a decent but no more than that derby team missing the key assets which got them to a play off final last year?! So its all seiwerts fault?! I remain far from convinced by him myself, but to put the blame on him is appalling imho - it wasnt his fault flo, elphick and bacuna had mares.....that mooy got caught in possession more times than in 5 prem games last season put together, that hogg and pritchard ran around with little if any product, that mbenza and diakhaby can run but cant play based on last night?!
Folks point to him being a cheap option etc etc and they may be right.....his record thus far is dire, but good players adapt to differing requirements and coaches. Theres a reason it goes back over a long period.......the players. They are the one constant as except for grabara, grant and elphick theyve all been there 12m plus.
I looked at some startling stats on the players who make a difference in terms of goals earlier -
Pritchard 3 goals in 44 games
Mbenza 1 in 22 games
Diakhaby 0 in 12 games
VLP 5 goals in 78 games
Mounie 9 goals in 59 games
Grant 5 goals in 14 games!!!!!!!

The system may not suit our squad, the coach may be struggling to get a tune out of his players..........but the above stats point to players either not performing or not good enough. Time will tell if its the latter or not.

[Chips Longhorn]

Shawsie that 4-3-3 isnt going to work

[dugnet]

Aug 6, 2019 19:38:36 GMT 1 shawsie said:

Aug 6, 2019 15:04:59 GMT 1 dugnet said:

I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace.

In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind.

The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort.

The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same.

Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility.

I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge.

You wouldnt fault the players?!
Unbeaten in pre season with a squad containing many who have 25 plus prem appearances each and we arent blaming the players for last nights first half against a decent but no more than that derby team missing the key assets which got them to a play off final last year?! So its all seiwerts fault?! I remain far from convinced by him myself, but to put the blame on him is appalling imho - it wasnt his fault flo, elphick and bacuna had mares.....that mooy got caught in possession more times than in 5 prem games last season put together, that hogg and pritchard ran around with little if any product, that mbenza and diakhaby can run but cant play based on last night?!
Folks point to him being a cheap option etc etc and they may be right.....his record thus far is dire, but good players adapt to differing requirements and coaches. Theres a reason it goes back over a long period.......the players. They are the one constant as except for grabara, grant and elphick theyve all been there 12m plus.
I looked at some startling stats on the players who make a difference in terms of goals earlier -
Pritchard 3 goals in 44 games
Mbenza 1 in 22 games
Diakhaby 0 in 12 games
VLP 5 goals in 78 games
Mounie 9 goals in 59 games
Grant 5 goals in 14 games!!!!!!!

The system may not suit our squad, the coach may be struggling to get a tune out of his players..........but the above stats point to players either not performing or not good enough. Time will tell if its the latter or not.

I think you have made a case for it being Siewerts' fault. I don't have a problem with him and if he succeeds I'll be delighted but I am far from convinced and he sets the agenda on the pitch. He determined the system and gave the instructions, I agree some players were below their best but the shape in the 1st half was absolutely all over the place.

[shawsie]

Aug 6, 2019 19:41:15 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Shawsie that 4-3-3 is it going to work

I dont know........imho i very much doubt it but a bit of patience needed i think. 1 game at this level isnt a great decision maker.....particularly as mistakes apart derby didnt really create much.
But if we are being honest, is the reason it might not work is that some of our so called stars actually arent as good as we think?!
Mooy has been a star for us, but has imho been in decline in impact terms for several months.....the same with the newly contracted hogg.
Where are the big offers for kongolo, schindler, pritchard who many thought would be leaving? Did they simply over perform for a coach who got lucky?!

[dugnet]

Aug 6, 2019 19:49:08 GMT 1 shawsie said:

Aug 6, 2019 19:41:15 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Shawsie that 4-3-3 is it going to work

I dont know........imho i very much doubt it but a bit of patience needed i think. 1 game at this level isnt a great decision maker.....particularly as mistakes apart derby didnt really create much.
But if we are being honest, is the reason it might not work is that some of our so called stars actually arent as good as we think?!
Mooy has been a star for us, but has imho been in decline in impact terms for several months.....the same with the newly contracted hogg.
Where are the big offers for kongolo, schindler, pritchard who many thought would be leaving? Did they simply over perform for a coach who got lucky?!

Would you then say that these players maybe "overvalued" and if so would we have been better taking the cash and replacing?

My view is those mentioned aren't bad players but they are probably not suited to 4-3-3.

Either way the bigger picture is that our strategy overall is questionable and has been for longer than this summer.

[villageidiot]

Aug 6, 2019 15:33:41 GMT 1 mallyb said:

Aug 6, 2019 13:13:13 GMT 1 @superstevieharper said:

I'm sorry, but even for DATM some comments on this thread are very poor. People are entitled to their opinions and if football directors, managers and players aren't performing well then they can expect criticism. However, some comments in this thread call into question the personal integrity of Hodgkinson and that is poor given that there's no justification.

Concerning the money - to give a very basic financial analysis.

In the last accounts (the first PL season) we made a £23M profit. Our revenue was £125M, which means we were spending £102M.
Where did we spend £102M? £48M in transfer fees divided over 4 years according to you so £12M. Where is the other £90M?
Not saying there isn't a valid answer to this but using bulk numbers like you are doing isn't clear.

Given that last season, we would still have been paying transfer fees from our first PL season and added some more expensive (but underwhelming) signings, it's likely that our costs were higher last season and our profit was less. We'll find out when the accounts are released.

We also made some substantial sales last year (Ince £12M, Malone £5M) which because we only just bought Mbenza this summer mean we probably brought in as much as we spent so cost neutral.

This season, our revenue will reduce by at least £50M (probably significantly more). So we need to make significant cut backs to avoid making a sizeable loss. If costs stayed at £102M then we'd make a £27M loss and be in breach of FFP. Assuming we don't go up, revenue will reduce again next season, the season after and the season after that so we'd quickly be in Bolton territory.

Players off the wage bill: Billing, Smith, Sobhi, Lossl, Depoitre, Lowe, Durm, Williams, Puncheon
40% relegation reduction apparently

You may say that it's impossible for costs to be so high when we haven't paid hefty fees this summer. However, for accounting purposes, transfers are recorded over the duration of a players contract (so if you sign someone for £20M on a 4 year deal, then it's accounted as £5M per year for 4 years), so we are still paying transfer fees from our 2 PL seasons. This also works the same with income for players sold.

Yes we've cut our wage bill, but probably not by enough to offset a £50M+ reduction in revenue. We'd have to reduce costs by 25-30% to break even this season - even more if we wanted to free up money for a summer spending spree.

So, whilst we may have as much as £75M revenue to play with this season - it's very plausible that the majority of that (or even more than that) is tied up in wages, paying off previous transfer fees and meeting ongoing obligations. Hence, we need to sell players before we can buy. We MAY now be able to buy players using revenue from Smith and Billing - but equally those sales may not have generated enough (we certainly haven't sold as many players as we all expected).

In addition to all this, if Deano wants to take back the £50M he's loaned the club over the years, then he'd be perfectly within his rights. However, that would tighten our financial position further.

It's impossible to give exact answers without the current financial information. However, it's clear from previous accounts and the rules for parachute payments that we are going to have to be very careful with our financial management, or we could be in real trouble in 2-3 years time.

Some of the criticism on this thread is completely ignorant and it's frankly pathetic that people are questioning the integrity of directors, just because they can't understand the basics of a balance sheet. Hodgkinson isn't beyond criticism and he will make mistakes in his tenure, but to accuse him of trousering money when the most recent financial information backs up what he's saying just isn't okay.

It's ok kicking the can down the road talking about 3 transfer window nonsense. Just like it was harder to attract players in January because we were going down it will be harder this coming January if we are not competitive. Lesson of last summer clearly not learnt. This summer our stock was highest and the best chance to bring in players to give us a lift.

You're moaning now because of a lack of signings. If we spent millions and it meant the price of your season ticket went up, then you'd moan about that. If we made signings and kept season ticket prices low and went to the wall, then you'd be the first outside the ground calling for the director's heads. The first job of directors is to keep a business running and that's what they're doing.

Doesn't need to go up we have generated £300M in prem money parachute and player sales. Where is it?

we did spend 100m in year 1. that included stadium upgrade 10m and staying up bonuss (gues 15m) those will not have been spent last year .. so would expect a higher profit last year.

so not unexpected that we made 60m profit in 2 years.


there are more questions when PH says we havent any spare cash.

[wigster]

Aug 6, 2019 19:38:36 GMT 1 shawsie said:

Aug 6, 2019 15:04:59 GMT 1 dugnet said:

I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace.

In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind.

The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort.

The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same.

Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility.

I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge.

You wouldnt fault the players?!
Unbeaten in pre season with a squad containing many who have 25 plus prem appearances each and we arent blaming the players for last nights first half against a decent but no more than that derby team missing the key assets which got them to a play off final last year?! So its all seiwerts fault?! I remain far from convinced by him myself, but to put the blame on him is appalling imho - it wasnt his fault flo, elphick and bacuna had mares.....that mooy got caught in possession more times than in 5 prem games last season put together, that hogg and pritchard ran around with little if any product, that mbenza and diakhaby can run but cant play based on last night?!
Folks point to him being a cheap option etc etc and they may be right.....his record thus far is dire, but good players adapt to differing requirements and coaches. Theres a reason it goes back over a long period.......the players. They are the one constant as except for grabara, grant and elphick theyve all been there 12m plus.
I looked at some startling stats on the players who make a difference in terms of goals earlier -
Pritchard 3 goals in 44 games
Mbenza 1 in 22 games
Diakhaby 0 in 12 games
VLP 5 goals in 78 games
Mounie 9 goals in 59 games
Grant 5 goals in 14 games!!!!!!!

The system may not suit our squad, the coach may be struggling to get a tune out of his players..........but the above stats point to players either not performing or not good enough. Time will tell if its the latter or not.

I went to the match last night Shawsie but, stupidly, also reviewed some of it on Sky later. The Sky commentator said that Kachunga had scored ONCE in 44+ matches,. I may have got this wrong but don't think so. One thing that is unfortunately true (and I'm not jumping on a bandwagon but have said it for ages) - there is NO-ONE in that team, or squad, that you would back to score goals regularly, apart from Grant. No-one - up front, from the wings, in midfield, defenders from set-plays - no-one.

[mickwadsworth26]

Barnsley are better than Huddersfield squad wise

[richhtfc]

Aug 6, 2019 15:04:59 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Aug 6, 2019 14:47:02 GMT 1 shawsie said:

I refrained from posting last night cos i knew it would be meltdown but have to ask why all the name calling and nasty abuse after 1 game ?!
If folks are looking for targets, can i suggest you try the players. They turned in the hopeless first 40 mins, not seiwert, hodgkinson, Hoyle, Jarvis et al.
It's high time some earned their substantial salaries - nobody knows the financial picture other than those with a direct stake in it as should be the case, but some of the abuse here is absolutely pathetic.
Take a deep breath and move on......last night was horrible but it's not the end of the world!

I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace.

In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind.

The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort.

The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same.

Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility.

I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge.

You make it sound like we lost 0-5 versus Bradford. We were bad but still competitive and lost against the beaten play off finalists 1-2 and their first goal was an absolute gift. Get a grip

[joeyjoneslocker]

Aug 6, 2019 20:17:15 GMT 1 mickwadsworth26 said:

Barnsley are better than Huddersfield squad wise

So what?

[arry11]

Aug 6, 2019 19:41:15 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Shawsie that 4-3-3 isnt going to work

4-3-3 works if you play like we did with Kuchunga playing in field and moving defenders around leaving space for the wingback and then getting in the box.

[richhtfc]

Aug 6, 2019 20:17:15 GMT 1 mickwadsworth26 said:

Barnsley are better than Huddersfield squad wise

You have to be joking?