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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Aug 6, 2019 20:29:11 GMT 1
I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace. In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind. The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort. The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same. Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility. I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge. You make it sound like we lost 0-5 versus Bradford. We were bad but still competitive and lost against the beaten play off finalists 1-2 and their first goal was an absolute gift. Get a grip Yep we played crap yet still could have won the game with the chances we had |
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 6, 2019 20:30:31 GMT 1
You wouldnt fault the players?! Unbeaten in pre season with a squad containing many who have 25 plus prem appearances each and we arent blaming the players for last nights first half against a decent but no more than that derby team missing the key assets which got them to a play off final last year?! So its all seiwerts fault?! I remain far from convinced by him myself, but to put the blame on him is appalling imho - it wasnt his fault flo, elphick and bacuna had mares.....that mooy got caught in possession more times than in 5 prem games last season put together, that hogg and pritchard ran around with little if any product, that mbenza and diakhaby can run but cant play based on last night?! Folks point to him being a cheap option etc etc and they may be right.....his record thus far is dire, but good players adapt to differing requirements and coaches. Theres a reason it goes back over a long period.......the players. They are the one constant as except for grabara, grant and elphick theyve all been there 12m plus. I looked at some startling stats on the players who make a difference in terms of goals earlier - Pritchard 3 goals in 44 games Mbenza 1 in 22 games Diakhaby 0 in 12 games VLP 5 goals in 78 games Mounie 9 goals in 59 games Grant 5 goals in 14 games!!!!!!! The system may not suit our squad, the coach may be struggling to get a tune out of his players..........but the above stats point to players either not performing or not good enough. Time will tell if its the latter or not. I went to the match last night Shawsie but, stupidly, also reviewed some of it on Sky later. The Sky commentator said that Kachunga had scored ONCE in 44+ matches,. I may have got this wrong but don't think so. One thing that is unfortunately true (and I'm not jumping on a bandwagon but have said it for ages) - there is NO-ONE in that team, or squad, that you would back to score goals regularly, apart from Grant. No-one - up front, from the wings, in midfield, defenders from set-plays - no-one. We can only hope that back in the championship this will Improve dramatically otherwise we’re doomed Unfortunately last night about six times in the first half we managed to either not get a shot off or missed he target and in the second half again missed two absolute gobbers and also missed the target about another six times. What happened to making the goalkeeper work Simple things like low and hard shot towards the far post The basics were and have been piss poor for far too long |
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 6, 2019 20:32:13 GMT 1
Shawsie that 4-3-3 isnt going to work 4-3-3 works if you play like we did with Kuchunga playing in field and moving defenders around leaving space for the wingback and then getting in the box. Sorry no. We’ve been relying on our fullbacks as our attacking option for far too long Get them doing the basic defending and get our attacking players doing the attacking |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Aug 6, 2019 20:38:24 GMT 1
4-3-3 works if you play like we did with Kuchunga playing in field and moving defenders around leaving space for the wingback and then getting in the box. Sorry no. We’ve been relying on our fullbacks as our attacking option for far too long Get them doing the basic defending and get our attacking players doing the attacking I was only saying how it did work for me a manager should build a squad that can adapt to play several systems and keep the opposition guessing. |
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 6, 2019 20:44:14 GMT 1
Sorry no. We’ve been relying on our fullbacks as our attacking option for far too long Get them doing the basic defending and get our attacking players doing the attacking I was only saying how it did work for me a manager should build a squad that can adapt to play several systems and keep the opposition guessing. I agree 4-3-3 works but we’ve tried it for ages and I can’t remember the last time one of our full backs actually came away with an assist. We are simply not good enough to play it imo |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 6, 2019 20:46:01 GMT 1
I am sorry Shawsie I do agree with you re the criticism of DH, PH and particularly SJ (he's not responsible for what happens on the pitch) but Siewert set the team up and it took him 45 minutes to address things. The shape was dismal and the formation clearly ineffective. I wouldn't fault players for effort but for delivery, guile, brains and quality we were well off the pace. In playing 4-3-3 we need dynamic, confident and (going forward) quality players with pace and strength. I don't think we have the ingredients to serve up the menu chef Siewert has in mind. The old chestnut that they are professional footballers who get paid loads is largely a load of hogwash. They are indeed paid a lot but they are human with differing abilities and skills. Nobody performs well outside their level of capability and comfort. The entire playing picture is looking a confused mess at the moment and in truth has for a year. Last night confirmed we haven't really moved on and were likely to deliver more of the same. Getting irate and name calling, accusing and being generally knee jerk isn't going to solve anything, however....sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will all come right isn't the right approach either. What has really changed? The old adage that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result appears never more true after last night. I fear this isn't a quick fix but first of all I would be happy if there was a suggestion that someone had recognised that something needed fixing. At the moment no one who matters appears to have taken that responsibility. I say again this wasn't about last night it was about a culmination of errors over a much longer period. How long before it gets addressed is down to those in charge. You make it sound like we lost 0-5 versus Bradford. We were bad but still competitive and lost against the beaten play off finalists 1-2 and their first goal was an absolute gift. Get a grip Really? We have a squad that is valued well over £150m (by some) and have just been relegated from the Premier League and we look as disjointed as last season against weaker opposition. I don't think my assessment was overly melodramatic but if you think I need to get a grip fair enough. |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Aug 6, 2019 20:48:30 GMT 1
I was only saying how it did work for me a manager should build a squad that can adapt to play several systems and keep the opposition guessing. I agree 4-3-3 works but we’ve tried it for ages and I can’t remember the last time one of our full backs actually came away with an assist. We are simply not good enough to play it imo Because we don't have the players to execute it right out and out wingers who never get in the box does not help. |
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est1908
David Wagner Terrier
Kindo is 66.....
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Post by est1908 on Aug 6, 2019 20:53:17 GMT 1
Simple question really as I don't buy the premier wages bullshit swallowing up everything we had in parachute payment money. We have invested nothing in the playing squad. We don't look like we will do with a few days to go. What is the strategy? Buy cheap and German conference players and don't play them. The new rule of the club reeks already from the chairman's lack of investment to the manager's lack of quality. I was really looking forward to this season...but I feel if we don't act soon in the transfer market or sack this clown of a manager we will be in the bottom three at the end of August and then struggle to get out. Posts like this, explain why the decent posters aren't here anymore..... |
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Post by tobbyg on Aug 6, 2019 21:25:50 GMT 1
Statement still stands true though no matter how you look at it. Maybe you would like to give me a breakdown the footballing impact the board have had this summer with 2 days and 1 hour until the transfer window shuts? I look forward to a long and exhaustive list. Not needed, I meant the statement Mastercracker made about you. You can exhaust yourself over that one all you like. |
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Aug 6, 2019 21:36:51 GMT 1
Dude the money has been trousered, the players who were saleable have been flogged and replaced with league 2 freebies. We still have 20 millions worth of shite unheard wingers that no one wants. Our chair man is like a used car salesmen, our manager is a deluded ego monster. We have gone backwards, massively. Weapon alert |
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Post by Larry David on Aug 6, 2019 22:19:25 GMT 1
Simple question really as I don't buy the premier wages bullshit swallowing up everything we had in parachute payment money. We have invested nothing in the playing squad. We don't look like we will do with a few days to go. What is the strategy? Buy cheap and German conference players and don't play them. The new rule of the club reeks already from the chairman's lack of investment to the manager's lack of quality. I was really looking forward to this season...but I feel if we don't act soon in the transfer market or sack this clown of a manager we will be in the bottom three at the end of August and then struggle to get out. Posts like this, explain why the decent posters aren't here anymore..... Why...I've been here for nearly 15 years or so. Can I not ask a question if I am concerned? Are you not concerned with out current situation? Sorry...I thought this was a forum |
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town1
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Post by town1 on Aug 6, 2019 22:23:09 GMT 1
24 hours later and still gutted about the state of my club.
They say that fans only know 5 % of what goes on. I don’t like the 5 % I am seeing.
I listened intently to PH on his q and a and at half time.
I listened carefully to the DH podcast.
DH stated that datm is monitored to gauge opinion.
Well I have supported Town for 50 years and I know when bad signs are there.
You cannot simply buy cheap and sell expensive without weakening the team.
If you buy low you end up going to that level as history has shown each time we do it.
The fans need a lift with some exciting signings ie goal scorers.
We stuck by the club re season tickets but the club are giving nothing back.
For the record I still resent the club having a joke at the fans expense but PH thinks it is fine as he knew the end game.
To be taken seriously it is time for all staff to stand up and be counted.
Either back the manager with funds or sack him. Make up your mind because something has to change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 22:23:55 GMT 1
Very interesting 2 days ahead. We’re either:
A - Skint
B - Happy with the squad
C - Don’t want/trust JS to spend anything
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 22:27:15 GMT 1
24 hours later and still gutted about the state of my club. They say that fans only know 5 % of what goes on. I don’t like the 5 % I am seeing. I listened intently to PH on his q and a and at half time. I listened carefully to the DH podcast. DH stated that datm is monitored to gauge opinion. Well I have supported Town for 50 years and I know when bad signs are there. You cannot simply buy cheap and sell expensive without weakening the team. If you buy low you end up going to that level as history has shown each time we do it. The fans need a lift with some exciting signings ie goal scorers. We stuck by the club re season tickets but the club are giving nothing back. For the record I still resent the club having a joke at the fans expense but PH thinks it is fine as he knew the end game. To be taken seriously it is time for all staff to stand up and be counted. Either back the manager with funds or sack him. Make up your mind because something has to change. I’m just waiting for the ‘thats why we didn’t want our name on their shirts’ PP ads. I’m thoroughly bored of their involvement and our willingness to become a laughing stock for a few thousand quid already. |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Aug 6, 2019 22:30:04 GMT 1
24 hours later and still gutted about the state of my club. They say that fans only know 5 % of what goes on. I don’t like the 5 % I am seeing. I listened intently to PH on his q and a and at half time. I listened carefully to the DH podcast. DH stated that datm is monitored to gauge opinion. Well I have supported Town for 50 years and I know when bad signs are there. You cannot simply buy cheap and sell expensive without weakening the team. If you buy low you end up going to that level as history has shown each time we do it. The fans need a lift with some exciting signings ie goal scorers. We stuck by the club re season tickets but the club are giving nothing back. For the record I still resent the club having a joke at the fans expense but PH thinks it is fine as he knew the end game. To be taken seriously it is time for all staff to stand up and be counted. Either back the manager with funds or sack him. Make up your mind because something has to change. I’m just waiting for the ‘thats why we didn’t want our name on their shirts’ PP ads. I’m thoroughly bored of their involvement and our willingness to become a laughing stock for a few thousand quid already. Bored of a 48 hour PR stunt from a few weeks ago that’s given us our best kit in years. Give it a rest. For goodness sake. |
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Aug 6, 2019 22:32:31 GMT 1
24 hours later and still gutted about the state of my club. They say that fans only know 5 % of what goes on. I don’t like the 5 % I am seeing. I listened intently to PH on his q and a and at half time. I listened carefully to the DH podcast. DH stated that datm is monitored to gauge opinion. Well I have supported Town for 50 years and I know when bad signs are there. You cannot simply buy cheap and sell expensive without weakening the team. If you buy low you end up going to that level as history has shown each time we do it. The fans need a lift with some exciting signings ie goal scorers. We stuck by the club re season tickets but the club are giving nothing back. For the record I still resent the club having a joke at the fans expense but PH thinks it is fine as he knew the end game. To be taken seriously it is time for all staff to stand up and be counted. Either back the manager with funds or sack him. Make up your mind because something has to change. I’m just waiting for the ‘thats why we didn’t want our name on their shirts’ PP ads. I’m thoroughly bored of their involvement and our willingness to become a laughing stock for a few thousand quid already. Totally agree. To add to previous comment, we were promised exciting premier league loans. Thought Julian Winter implied that weeks ago and PH definitely implied they were on their way. The clock is ticking but still no sign. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 22:35:51 GMT 1
I’m just waiting for the ‘thats why we didn’t want our name on their shirts’ PP ads. I’m thoroughly bored of their involvement and our willingness to become a laughing stock for a few thousand quid already. Totally agree. To add to previous comment, we were promised exciting premier league loans. Thought Julian Winter implied that weeks ago and PH definitely implied they were on their way. The clock is ticking but still no sign. Implied, promised?? |
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 2,830
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Post by duncfost01 on Aug 6, 2019 22:37:17 GMT 1
24 hours later and still gutted about the state of my club. They say that fans only know 5 % of what goes on. I don’t like the 5 % I am seeing. I listened intently to PH on his q and a and at half time. I listened carefully to the DH podcast. DH stated that datm is monitored to gauge opinion. Well I have supported Town for 50 years and I know when bad signs are there. You cannot simply buy cheap and sell expensive without weakening the team. If you buy low you end up going to that level as history has shown each time we do it. The fans need a lift with some exciting signings ie goal scorers. We stuck by the club re season tickets but the club are giving nothing back. For the record I still resent the club having a joke at the fans expense but PH thinks it is fine as he knew the end game. To be taken seriously it is time for all staff to stand up and be counted. Either back the manager with funds or sack him. Make up your mind because something has to change. |
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Aug 6, 2019 22:37:44 GMT 1
Totally agree. To add to previous comment, we were promised exciting premier league loans. Thought Julian Winter implied that weeks ago and PH definitely implied they were on their way. The clock is ticking but still no sign. Implied, promised?? Or misled? |
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 2,830
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Post by duncfost01 on Aug 6, 2019 22:41:51 GMT 1
24 hours later and still gutted about the state of my club. They say that fans only know 5 % of what goes on. I don’t like the 5 % I am seeing. I listened intently to PH on his q and a and at half time. I listened carefully to the DH podcast. DH stated that datm is monitored to gauge opinion. Well I have supported Town for 50 years and I know when bad signs are there. You cannot simply buy cheap and sell expensive without weakening the team. If you buy low you end up going to that level as history has shown each time we do it. The fans need a lift with some exciting signings ie goal scorers. We stuck by the club re season tickets but the club are giving nothing back. For the record I still resent the club having a joke at the fans expense but PH thinks it is fine as he knew the end game. To be taken seriously it is time for all staff to stand up and be counted. Either back the manager with funds or sack him. Make up your mind because something has to change. What a spot on post. I feel exactly the same. This is inevitably end in tears. Siewart seems tactically inept. All this bullshit about we are all together and the players believe in what we are trying to do. We were second to every second ball all night. They didn’t look fit. Why he didn’t change it when Lawerence gave us several warnings before winning the game. Why was Elphick lumping it forward ? Where has all the money gone. My prediction ? Easy. This will turn very toxic, very very quickly. |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 6, 2019 22:43:53 GMT 1
The one thing PH did say was that he expected this window to be tough and things to run to the wire. To be fair to him we should let the window close before a final judgement on what we have done.
48 hours to see what happens.
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Post by willo on Aug 6, 2019 22:50:22 GMT 1
Very interesting 2 days ahead. We’re either: A - Skint B - Happy with the squad C - Don’t want/trust JS to spend anything It’s like Chris Powell’s last summer window to me. We didn’t trust him with the funds, what little he did have he wasted on Jason Davidson(!) and was gone 2 months later. The only difference this time being Jan will likely be gone a lot sooner. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 22:50:30 GMT 1
All very odd. We’re privileged to have the powers that be communicate so much with the fans but it needs to be clear, realistic communication. Sadly, it’s been more like a bloke bragging in the pub this year. PH has picked up where DH left off with his ‘we won’t sleepwalk’ message. Then, the fans get mocked in podcasts for having unrealistic expectations and being generally, batshit crazy.
If they’d have said ‘relegation is terrible, we’re gonna have to move on the big earners and replace them from the lower leagues’ we’d have grumbled but understood. Instead, it feels like an attempt to shift tickets and massage egos in the press before delivering a fraction of what was officially announced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 22:51:09 GMT 1
Very interesting 2 days ahead. We’re either: A - Skint B - Happy with the squad C - Don’t want/trust JS to spend anything It’s like Chris Powell’s last summer window to me. We didn’t trust him with the funds, what little he did have he wasted on Jason Davidson(!) and was gone 2 months later. The only difference this time being Jan will likely be gone a lot sooner. At least Powell signed a left back! |
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Aug 6, 2019 22:53:00 GMT 1
The one thing PH did say was that he expected this window to be tough and things to run to the wire. To be fair to him we should let the window close before a final judgement on what we have done. 48 hours to see what happens. I take your point re the transfer window still having 48 hours to run but I don’t share the view that it is that tough. We hold the contracts and if we want to keep players we will. If we want quality then in this day and age it will cost money. If the chairman really wants success he will need to recycle the funds received, however much it pains him. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 22:54:26 GMT 1
Anyway, I refuse to become a full on moaner. We’ve still got an excellent squad with more value to it than we’ve ever had before. I’ve no doubt that those in charge care just as much as the most ardent Town fan. Let’s all keep the faith. Things might click. Hope springs eternal.
UTT
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Aug 6, 2019 22:55:52 GMT 1
All very odd. We’re privileged to have the powers that be communicate so much with the fans but it needs to be clear, realistic communication. Sadly, it’s been more like a bloke bragging in the pub this year. PH has picked up where DH left off with his ‘we won’t sleepwalk’ message. Then, the fans get mocked in podcasts for having unrealistic expectations and being generally, batshit crazy. If they’d have said ‘relegation is terrible, we’re gonna have to move on the big earners and replace them from the lower leagues’ we’d have grumbled but understood. Instead, it feels like an attempt to shift tickets and massage egos in the press before delivering a fraction of what was officially announced. There is communication and there is telling you what they think you want to hear. They are not the same. |
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Aug 6, 2019 22:56:20 GMT 1
I’m just waiting for the ‘thats why we didn’t want our name on their shirts’ PP ads. I’m thoroughly bored of their involvement and our willingness to become a laughing stock for a few thousand quid already. Bored of a 48 hour PR stunt from a few weeks ago that’s given us our best kit in years. Give it a rest. For goodness sake. I don't give a flying f*** about the kit. It's the players in it that is important. |
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 2,830
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Post by duncfost01 on Aug 6, 2019 23:00:21 GMT 1
Transparency. Honesty.
They need to turn round very quickly.
Fans of other clubs always used say Wagner and your chairman always seem honest. Wish we had that.
Now We are getting bullshit.
Supported Town for over 45yrs. I’ve seen this before. It’s worrying.
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Post by htfcfcfc on Aug 6, 2019 23:00:29 GMT 1
Bored of a 48 hour PR stunt from a few weeks ago that’s given us our best kit in years. Give it a rest. For goodness sake. I don't give a flying f*** about the kit. It's the players in it that is important. Great. Thanks for the valuable contribution |
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