jimmymac
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,642
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Post by jimmymac on Aug 7, 2019 6:24:23 GMT 1
Championship winning season, play offs, Wembley, happy faces... Everything rosey... 1st season in the prem absolutely fantastic ๐
And then.... Last season total crap... And now nothing as changed.... Something must happen fast if not we will sink without a paddle.... The club is in turmoil in my opinion and we haven't got a clue how to turn it around.... Suppose its no surprise really we know no different.... Carry on like Monday night and it will be another shit season.... ๐๐๐๐๐
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Post by nicovaesen on Aug 7, 2019 6:50:12 GMT 1
Iโm worried how long we can go along before fans start turning and leaving in droves. First game itโs been clearly visible just how many empty seats there was for two seasons.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 7, 2019 6:54:41 GMT 1
Iโm worried how long we can go along before fans start turning and leaving in droves. First game itโs been clearly visible just how many empty seats there was for two seasons. And the booing at the end, it was pretty loud. I don't agree with booing nor do I ever boo, I find it a bit ridiculous as the players know they've probably played crap, they don't need heckling from the stands to quantify it. |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 7, 2019 7:25:14 GMT 1
Championship winning season, play offs, Wembley, happy faces... Everything rosey... 1st season in the prem absolutely fantastic ๐ And then.... Last season total crap... And now nothing as changed.... Something must happen fast if not we will sink without a paddle.... The club is in turmoil in my opinion and we haven't got a clue how to turn it around.... Suppose its no surprise really we know no different.... Carry on like Monday night and it will be another shit season.... ๐๐๐๐๐ I don't think it's in turmoil but I do think that there is either; A reluctance to acknowledge there is a problem on the playing side and/or A delusion that we have a coherent strategy that will bring us relative success We all know we have some very decent and good people at the club and have had for a number of years. However, good people make mistakes and footballing wise we have not had a coherent strategy for what we were trying to achieve on the pitch, certainly not long term. Now that has been overseen by two of our absolute heroes, Dean Hoyle and David Wagner! Good/Great people get it wrong sometimes. PH has decided to go with the strategy of buy/appoint promising people who will develop and benefit the club, and themselves in the long term. I understand this to a point but we were in the Premier League 5 months ago and relatively speaking to appoint such an inexperienced coach is looking ever more, naive at best and bloody stupid at worst. Look at Brighton, I know they have more money, but at least in appointing Potter he had some track record at competitive football. I genuinely appreciate we have to have a budget and work within it, but we were a bloody Premier League team last season (even if we were punching above our weight) and we should have planned on the basis we might get relegated but what gives us the best sustainable chance of returning to the Premier League? PH has made a few positive sounding statements, which have tried to manage expectations. The comment about the money being used from the Premier League I understand to a point ie "We won't be spending big" but it has raised more questions than answers. The most pertinent being what budget do we have if we don't return to the Premier League? The other statement that on the face of it made sense but when you think again you scratch your head, is "It's a 3 window transition". Ok, to transition from what to what and with what outcome. It is very easy to moan after a single result and I like to think I am quite measured generally. On Monday it wasn't the result but the performance that was so disappointing in that we were all over the place in the first half (you can tell a well coached team by their shape, we were dreadful at times in that first 45 mins) and slow, predictable and lacking any real quality in the 2nd, despite trying and working to a large degree. We are in this pickle because we didn't sit down and develop a strategy for trying to stay in the Premier League. Everything has been reactive rather than proactive. We need not have copied Burnley's playing style but you have to say they have done a bloody great job over the past 6 years. They don't have lots of big financial backers but have sustained a Premier League status and played in Europe....San Siro in 5 years?? All credit to them, but it shows what is possible with a strategy. So that's everything that is wrong, what needs to be done. Accepting that Siewert needs a chance I think he has until the end of August. If there is no improvement in performance he has to go I'm afraid, he may be a decent coach in time but I don't think we should be paying him to learn. If Siewert is released and we want to develop someone, some may say take the budget option, give Hudson and Whiteheads the job. Both understand the league, they played and worked under Wagner and they carry respect. Transfers wise we all know we need a left back and get Kongolo in the centre. Why this hasn't been addressed us baffling. We also need striker back up and, if O'Brien isn't up to this level yet, a midfielder. We need an identity on the pitch, we have discarded what got us here. The fans will largely carry the identity off the pitch along with the excellent community and charity work the club does. Overall if in the next few games we don't see the signs of a massive improvement and a real sense that we have a plan then something has to change. Sorry Jim it's a long answer to your question and it is only my opinion but I think we've got it wrong and those in charge need to reflect, recognise it and take action. Good people make mistakes, good people admit their mistakes, do something about it and are respected for it. It's not actually about what happens in the next few weeks it's about where we are in 1, 3, 5 years. We must not look back and say we should have, could have... It's solvable but it first needs someone who admits that it's not right at the moment . UTT |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 7, 2019 7:34:59 GMT 1
One final word....
Norwich...
Their strategy is to not spend massively big, use the players who got them promoted and if they get relegated have a chance of returning from the Championship.
Now you may argue that it may not be a good strategy but it is a strategy.
Who is in charge of football strategy at Norwich??
Something to ponder on....
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Post by htfcfcfc on Aug 7, 2019 7:59:57 GMT 1
One final word.... Norwich... Their strategy is to not spend massively big, use the players who got them promoted and if they get relegated have a chance of returning from the Championship. Now you may argue that it may not be a good strategy but it is a strategy. Who is in charge of football strategy at Norwich?? Something to ponder on.... Was chatting with a mate about this the other day. I guess the risk is that like us they get taken apart every week and the players arrive back in The Championship with huge downward momentum and low in spirit seemingly like us The manager either gone or under pressure as fans protest at lack of ambition. The plus side theyโd be around ยฃ100m better off than us! |
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Post by runner76 on Aug 7, 2019 8:25:15 GMT 1
One final word.... Norwich... Their strategy is to not spend massively big, use the players who got them promoted and if they get relegated have a chance of returning from the Championship. Now you may argue that it may not be a good strategy but it is a strategy. Who is in charge of football strategy at Norwich?? Something to ponder on.... ...and what was their start to last season like......! |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 7, 2019 8:26:24 GMT 1
I canโt believe how we have gone from our wonderful promotion season and great 1st Premier League season to what we have arrived at now in just over a year,
After 2 seasons in the Premier League we should be going all out to get back again.
Whereโs the drive and ambition gone?
I want to hear how we intend to fight to get back there not told that we have a 3 window transition etc, indicating that we are not expecting any progression for a long time.
The wonderful spirit that we had within the club has all but gone and we are seeing no signs of it returning.
The fans have and continue to do their job - we need some positive vibes from the club to at least show a little bit of ambition around the place.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 8:33:39 GMT 1
We lost the first game of the season by one goal to the side who got to the playoff final last year. Get a grip.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 7, 2019 8:36:34 GMT 1
We lost the first game of the season by one goal to the side who got to the playoff final last year. Get a grip. I donโt think itโs just about the first game of the season though. This has been going on for 12 months. |
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Post by royrace on Aug 7, 2019 8:40:05 GMT 1
One final word.... Norwich... Their strategy is to not spend massively big, use the players who got them promoted and if they get relegated have a chance of returning from the Championship. Now you may argue that it may not be a good strategy but it is a strategy. Who is in charge of football strategy at Norwich?? Something to ponder on.... ...and what was their start to last season like......! I've no idea but I would hazard a guess there were some positive aspects to their performances. Like there was when Wagner first arrived and you could tell exactly what the team was trying to do even though it didn't come off. In eight months I've yet to see any sign that Jan has got them playing in a cohesive manner. Just looks a disorganised mess with the odd bit of individual skill. We should have seen progression of some sort last season, we didn't and excuses were made. There are no more excuses imo, we either see some positive signs on the pitch pretty quick or the club will needs to admit it's latest mistake and correct it sharpish. They may also want to consider the full back positions and what the hell happened to the three premier league loans. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 7, 2019 8:43:26 GMT 1
...and what was their start to last season like......! I've no idea but I would hazard a guess there were some positive aspects to their performances. Like there was when Wagner first arrived and you could tell exactly what the team was trying to do even though it didn't come off. In eight months I've yet to see any sign that Jan has got them playing in a cohesive manner. Just looks a disorganised mess with the odd bit of individual skill. We should have seen progression of some sort last season, we didn't and excuses were made. There are no more excuses imo, we either see some positive signs on the pitch pretty quick or the club will needs to admit it's latest mistake and correct it sharpish. They may also want to consider the full back positions and what the hell happened to the three premier league loans. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards Totally agree with this. |
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Aug 7, 2019 8:59:56 GMT 1
Championship winning season, play offs, Wembley, happy faces... Everything rosey... 1st season in the prem absolutely fantastic ๐ And then.... Last season total crap... And now nothing as changed.... Something must happen fast if not we will sink without a paddle.... The club is in turmoil in my opinion and we haven't got a clue how to turn it around.... Suppose its no surprise really we know no different.... Carry on like Monday night and it will be another shit season.... ๐๐๐๐๐ Don't you worry 'bout a thing... I honestly believe we will come good very soon, there is sill another 135 points to play and judging by the second half we are a match for any championship team. UTT |
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Post by terracesider on Aug 7, 2019 9:05:06 GMT 1
Overreaction to a defeat by the cognoscenti on DATM --- SURELY NOT!
FWIW My OPINION was that the players worked hard the other night - no lack of motivation - but Derby were quicker to the ball in midfield and very well organised in defence
I wonder why? Maybe that had something to do with ambition? They lose a potentially top-class manager and hire as his replacement a former Barcelona captain who sports over 100 International caps and has many years of management experience.
We hire a guy that (apparently - since no one had ever heard of him) got the bullet from a lower league German club; enough said?
Not "blaming" anyone for this but isn't the comparison pretty stark?
I sincerely hope that Jan develops QUICKLY into a decent (at least) tactician and organiser. To quote that clown in Brussels though: "The clock is ticking."
UTT
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Post by terrierist on Aug 7, 2019 9:07:20 GMT 1
Championship winning season, play offs, Wembley, happy faces... Everything rosey... 1st season in the prem absolutely fantastic ๐ And then.... Last season total crap... And now nothing as changed.... Something must happen fast if not we will sink without a paddle.... The club is in turmoil in my opinion and we haven't got a clue how to turn it around.... Suppose its no surprise really we know no different.... Carry on like Monday night and it will be another shit season.... ๐๐๐๐๐ Don't you worry 'bout a thing... I honestly believe we will come good very soon, there is sill another 135 points to play and judging by the second half we are a match for any championship team. UTT The second half was literally the footballing equivalent of "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" as Derby sat back and let us pass it around the back with hardly any goal threat ever being produced. Unfortunately after 45 minutes of this season the same problems are evident, no tooth in the final third and we've been figured out. Something needs to change quickly. 90% of that team has lost 90% of matches under Siewert and his system, how do you convince them that all of a sudden it will come good? I wouldn't be believing that if i played for him. After all, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. |
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Post by royrace on Aug 7, 2019 9:07:22 GMT 1
Championship winning season, play offs, Wembley, happy faces... Everything rosey... 1st season in the prem absolutely fantastic ๐ And then.... Last season total crap... And now nothing as changed.... Something must happen fast if not we will sink without a paddle.... The club is in turmoil in my opinion and we haven't got a clue how to turn it around.... Suppose its no surprise really we know no different.... Carry on like Monday night and it will be another shit season.... ๐๐๐๐๐ Don't you worry 'bout a thing... I honestly believe we will come good very soon, there is sill another 135 points to play and judging by the second half we are a match for any championship team. UTT When you look at the individuals in the squad we absolutely are yes. |
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,805
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Post by drewden on Aug 7, 2019 9:14:15 GMT 1
Supporters banging the drum, next 2 matches seems a must 4 points, reaฤบly dread the the thought of 0 points on the board.
Then what.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Aug 7, 2019 9:20:09 GMT 1
Don't you worry 'bout a thing... I honestly believe we will come good very soon, there is sill another 135 points to play and judging by the second half we are a match for any championship team. UTT The second half was literally the footballing equivalent of "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" as Derby sat back and let us pass it around the back with hardly any goal threat ever being produced. Unfortunately after 45 minutes of this season the same problems are evident, no tooth in the final third and we've been figured out. Something needs to change quickly. 90% of that team has lost 90% of matches under Siewert and his system, how do you convince them that all of a sudden it will come good? I wouldn't be believing that if i played for him. After all, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Bullshitโ our midfielder took control in the second half and if we had been more clinical we wouldn't have lost |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 7, 2019 9:24:44 GMT 1
The second half was literally the footballing equivalent of "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" as Derby sat back and let us pass it around the back with hardly any goal threat ever being produced. Unfortunately after 45 minutes of this season the same problems are evident, no tooth in the final third and we've been figured out. Something needs to change quickly. 90% of that team has lost 90% of matches under Siewert and his system, how do you convince them that all of a sudden it will come good? I wouldn't be believing that if i played for him. After all, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Bullshitโ our midfielder took control in the second half and if we had been more clinical we wouldn't have lost Sorry I don't agree with that, we didn't have the quality or guile to create real chances in the 2nd half. Yes we had two good opportunities we didn't take but scoring those, although it would have helped with everyone's confidence, would have papered over what was a disappointing performance. |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 7, 2019 9:28:48 GMT 1
At the end of the day we all want Town to do well, some are more upbeat and optimistic than others, some are always looking on the black side and some take it for what it is. The underlying theme, and yes it is only one game, from everyone is that we haven't got things right. We are concerned about the capability of the coach. The new chairman has confused with his initial comments. The players don't look comfortable with the formation and style we are trying to play. Our recruitment has left us light in key areas.
In reality we are as a fanbase pretty much on the same page.
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Post by willo on Aug 7, 2019 9:31:15 GMT 1
Iโm worried how long we can go along before fans start turning and leaving in droves. First game itโs been clearly visible just how many empty seats there was for two seasons. A lot of us are still on holiday (it is the school holidays after all) which would explain many of the empty seats. |
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deepc
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 684
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Post by deepc on Aug 7, 2019 9:34:33 GMT 1
We lost the first game of the season by one goal to the side who got to the playoff final last year. Get a grip. It was only the first game and I know people appear to be overreacting but .... I do not think it was the fact that we lost to a team ,as you say was the play off finalist ,that has got so many wound up. It was the manner of the defeat. An inept first half followed by a better second but in which the Derby keeper only had to make one save. We could have been watching any number of games from last season ,except that it was against much inferior opposition. Making the same mistakes week after week and expecting a different outcome is madness. I want every Town manager to succeed but just cannot see any signs of progress with JS and thought of 3 windows with this one would a disaster imo. TTID |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,199
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Post by iangreaves on Aug 7, 2019 9:39:28 GMT 1
Supporters banging the drum, next 2 matches seems a must 4 points, reaฤบly dread the the thought of 0 points on the board. Then what. It always makes a huge difference to get points on the board in the first game. Lose, and you are under pressure straight away - even more so when you have players who were demoralised by the season we had last time. |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,199
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Post by iangreaves on Aug 7, 2019 9:40:46 GMT 1
Iโm worried how long we can go along before fans start turning and leaving in droves. First game itโs been clearly visible just how many empty seats there was for two seasons. A lot of us are still on holiday (it is the school holidays after all) which would explain many of the empty seats. And it's cricket season. |
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Aug 7, 2019 9:50:28 GMT 1
Bullshitโ our midfielder took control in the second half and if we Sorry I don't agree with that, we didn't have the quality or guile to create real chances in the 2nd half. Yes we had two good opportunities we didn't take but scoring those, although it would have helped with everyone's confidence, would have papered over what was a disappointing performance. Like I said if Kachunga " had been more clinical we wouldn't have lost "  |
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Post by stanton1969 on Aug 7, 2019 9:56:29 GMT 1
Sorry I don't agree with that, we didn't have the quality or guile to create real chances in the 2nd half. Yes we had two good opportunities we didn't take but scoring those, although it would have helped with everyone's confidence, would have papered over what was a disappointing performance. Like I said if Kachunga " had been more clinical we wouldn't have lost " He was never gonna score in a million years. 4 Derby players busting a gut to cover and block as well. Half chance at best. |
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deadleg
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,897
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Post by deadleg on Aug 7, 2019 10:04:22 GMT 1
We are in this pickle because we didn't sit down and develop a strategy for trying to stay in the Premier League. Everything has been reactive rather than proactive. We need not have copied Burnley's playing style but you have to say they have done a bloody great job over the past 6 years. They don't have lots of big financial backers but have sustained a Premier League status and played in Europe....San Siro in 5 years?? All credit to them, but it shows what is possible with a strategy. To be honest I don't think this is necessarily new, we've generally seemed ill-prepared and with a bit of a wishy-washy plan for years. The only real exceptions I can think of were the Wagner promotion season (obviously, and a BIG exception) and possibly Clark's first season where we went out and bought a few other clubs' stand-out performers for the division. Beyond that it's often felt a bit 'let's just hope for the best' to me. Dean went on record as saying we were surprised by the quality of the Championship and then later, by just how tough the Premier League was. Both of those statements blew my mind and still do now, fair play to him for saying so but if you're not good at judging these things yourself there should be others around you who are and I get the impression the only people we've had who've fit that bill have been Webber (though I never liked the guy), Wagner to a degree and probably Wilson. Now we're showing signs of not quite knowing where we are and what's really required once again - maybe a symptom of deciding not to appoint a DoF and to wing it through the summer without one whilst having a manager with little knowledge of the division? The Kongolo/left-back thing is the most concerning to me and suggests a real lack of judgement all round. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Aug 7, 2019 10:06:32 GMT 1
I'll tell you what's happening Jimmy.
We've grown too accustomed to being spoilt. Cheap season tickets while the club competes at the highest level it's been at for nigh on 50 yrs (most clubs would have hiked prices at this point). We've seen that experience crumble a little last season, but if people want to get back to the heady heights they're going to have to stop the moaning and hope that their efforts will spark a recovery in the mindset of the team.
I'm sure the players are feeling this, getting kicked in the bollocks on social media, at the games etc. isn't really going to help them.
The fans have as big a part to play in this, off the field and away from matchday. Otherwise the prophets of doom will just see their prophecy play out, but will probably miss the fact they might have played a small part in that outcome...
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Post by terrierist on Aug 7, 2019 10:07:19 GMT 1
Sorry I don't agree with that, we didn't have the quality or guile to create real chances in the 2nd half. Yes we had two good opportunities we didn't take but scoring those, although it would have helped with everyone's confidence, would have papered over what was a disappointing performance. Like I said if Kachunga " had been more clinical we wouldn't have lost " Kachunga...scored 1 in nigh on 50 competitive games. Says a lot about the chances he can put away. I like the guy and think hes a good player but thats not a great return no matter which way you spin it. Yes he hashed his shot but i genuinely think that from that position the keeper stops 6 out of 10, the 4 defenders get 3 out of 10 and an attacker sneaks one in 1 in 10 anyway. No way is it the gilt edged chance that some on here make out, and even our manager was clinging to. The simple truth is that we do not make enough chances. We sit outside the box passing it back and around. I acknowledge that itself is something that some teams (liverpool, city etc) do well to probe defences, so i'm not saying it wont work, it just hasn't been doing for us. And with that in mind, Derby were quite comfortable in their defense of us. They didnt need to attack, could sit back on their lead and let us probe a bit. We failed to do that, failed to put them under much pressure at all, 2 half chances and a long shot in 45 minutes is not going to panic any defence at this level. We need to up our game, it was a continuation of last seasons form, style and result. Something has to change because to me and every long suffering town fan i've spoken to since, that was no improvement at all. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 7, 2019 10:09:16 GMT 1
If we are still going down the "Derby sat off knowing we would miss 2 really gilt edges chances' then for some town fans the promotion season had no luck in it and all the shocking misses against us and negative goal difference was all part of a plan from 'mystic Dave'.
A football season contains lots of games you win/lose that were good games, poor games, lucky/unlucky , ones you blag because the other team MISS some easy chances or you take the one or two chances you get in 90 minutes etc.
Sometimes you can win 3 games without a player in your team scoring a goal.
One game down in which we actually did have very good chances to win it? Not throwing myself off the cliff with the Lemmings as yet.
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