Has Dean said he wants all his money back?

[Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier]

Aug 22, 2019 8:47:32 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Aug 22, 2019 8:14:04 GMT 1 rastrick32 said:

Underperforming doesn't even come close to some players. Nonperforming is probably more accurate.

If I was MH last night, I would have fucking walled up Mbenza in the dressing room. There is a fundamental difference in playing poorly and not trying.

're Mbenza we made a mistake signing him permanently IMO based in last season, a big mistake. Who made that decision? But the fact we spent over 10m on him pours further cold water on the "we are potless" nonsense

I’ve said this countless times Chippy, I made note on my iPhone at the Dean Hoyle q&a before the first game home to Chelsea last season..... Mbenza MUST be bought. Town were contractually OBLIGED to buy him after his loan. Whether it was £5m, £10m or £12m is another matter. Diakhaby was £5m on signing then another £5m in 12 months time (i.e. this summer).

[Chips Longhorn]

Aug 22, 2019 9:06:04 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

Aug 22, 2019 8:49:48 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Thanks for the personal abuse. So are you saying we have no money? If you are saying that do you know that or are you just guessing ? Because PH wouldn't say we have no money. Do you have an inside track on our finances that he doesn't? Or is he a liar ?

But you are saying we have lots of money do you know that or are you just guessing? In my post I ask a few questions that I am unable to work out. I know the bit about the American consortium is true, you have this totally annoying habit of putting everyone down with snide stupid comments that in most instances have absolutely no relevance to the subject matter. I don’t know if DH wants his money back it’s just a question.

And please don’t play the wounded soldier about a bit of abuse, when you may have had a light bulb moment and thought maybe I am wrong, because if anyone on this forum deserves any personal abuse it’s you,so if you can’t take it stop dishing it out.

Reading.. let's get this straight.. I'm not starting threads saying "we have lots of money " because I'm not a guesser like you . I do know that there was lots of deadline day frustration that's all I'll say .. and 're personal abuse you carry on if it makes your chippy little soul feel better

[Chips Longhorn]

Aug 22, 2019 9:13:03 GMT 1 Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier said:

Aug 22, 2019 8:47:32 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

're Mbenza we made a mistake signing him permanently IMO based in last season, a big mistake. Who made that decision? But the fact we spent over 10m on him pours further cold water on the "we are potless" nonsense

I’ve said this countless times Chippy, I made note on my iPhone at the Dean Hoyle q&a before the first game home to Chelsea last season..... Mbenza MUST be bought. Town were contractually OBLIGED to buy him after his loan. Whether it was £5m, £10m or £12m is another matter. Diakhaby was £5m on signing then another £5m in 12 months time (i.e. this summer).

Yes you are probably right. Would explain why we didn't send him packing . Truth is M and D are here so we have to get on with it for now .. another truth is that vlp quaner or kachunga are barely better

[Chips Longhorn]

Aug 22, 2019 9:00:19 GMT 1 townatheart said:

Aug 22, 2019 7:56:48 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

"Im trying to work out why we suddenly have no money "

Another guesser. Who says we don't have money . We DO have money. The problem we have is that the window is now closed . Stop making stuff up ffs you're an old man behaving like an 8 year old

Yes, window closed is a fact, but while it is silly it the sense that the time has passed so we can not go back and change what has happened, a valid question is why at least some money, NOT ALL NOT EVEN A LOT, but why SOME money was not spent to bolster the squad. Personally I do not see the "conspiracy theory" type hyperbole that is being flung around, but I do see there are some legitimate areas of concern and reasonable questions surrounding how the Club has handled the current affairs.

EDIT - just read a couple of your other responses, and actually quite agree with your points TBF.

I agree .. There are reasonable questions to be asked ... and what a shame that sean jarvis has been tasked to answer some of them

[Deleted]

Are we going to have the same thread every time we lose a game?

The answer is the same, it doesn't matter, there's nothing we can do with the money, the transfer window is closed. Ask again in January by all means but the witch-hunt every week is really irritating.


We can't buy anybody with the "premier league money", the "billing money", the "Mooy money", the season ticket money, Dean's money, Phil's Money, or an Arab Sheikh's money even if we wanted to.

The only thing we can spend on now is a new manager, let's see what happens, it's been 5 days. And let's not ignore the fact that we've just shelled out on binning Winkler, Bell and Siewert, that wasn't free.

[rastrick32]

I picture Dean sat in the reception at the John Smiths with an abacus in front of him. We sell Mounie and he move another red sphere from left to right.

Maybe he has a few financial guys walking around valuing stuff like office furniture and cars.

Meanwhile, Phil will be sat in the boardroom, loosened tie and sweating profusely, emptying a few of the players piggy banks.

[bigtruck]

Aug 22, 2019 7:43:08 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

i have been trying to work out why we suddenly have no money and all I can think is that DH has insisted that he is paid back all his money previously invested. Prior to DH selling the club I posted that there was a due diligence process being undertaken by an American consortium. It’s only supposition but I wonder if the Americans would not agree to pay DH back his previous investment as they needed the money to invest in the team?

On the other hand Phil ( who is hard to like) was so star struck by being given the opportunity to take over agreed to refund DH his previous investments from the parachute payments and picked up the club  with his total available monies, on the basis that he thought we could survive in the championship with the players we have until the second and third parachute payments kicked in, hence we have no monies this season to improve the team.

its just a thought as we are getting a £42m parachute payment this year we got £20m from the sale of players, wages have been chopped due to relegation, but we are told we have no money (which I find hard to believe) despite making a profit last year. I don’t suppose we will ever know

Yes he has asked for it back

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2019 9:49:48 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Aug 22, 2019 7:43:08 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

i have been trying to work out why we suddenly have no money and all I can think is that DH has insisted that he is paid back all his money previously invested. Prior to DH selling the club I posted that there was a due diligence process being undertaken by an American consortium. It’s only supposition but I wonder if the Americans would not agree to pay DH back his previous investment as they needed the money to invest in the team?

On the other hand Phil ( who is hard to like) was so star struck by being given the opportunity to take over agreed to refund DH his previous investments from the parachute payments and picked up the club  with his total available monies, on the basis that he thought we could survive in the championship with the players we have until the second and third parachute payments kicked in, hence we have no monies this season to improve the team.

its just a thought as we are getting a £42m parachute payment this year we got £20m from the sale of players, wages have been chopped due to relegation, but we are told we have no money (which I find hard to believe) despite making a profit last year. I don’t suppose we will ever know

Yes he has asked for it back

How the bell do you or anyone else know . This endless talk of who has the money ,who hasn't the money ,who wants the money is just bleeding tedious .
Why should we be privy to all the club's finances !

[terrier2019]

Aug 22, 2019 7:43:08 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

i have been trying to work out why we suddenly have no money and all I can think is that DH has insisted that he is paid back all his money previously invested. Prior to DH selling the club I posted that there was a due diligence process being undertaken by an American consortium. It’s only supposition but I wonder if the Americans would not agree to pay DH back his previous investment as they needed the money to invest in the team?

On the other hand Phil ( who is hard to like) was so star struck by being given the opportunity to take over agreed to refund DH his previous investments from the parachute payments and picked up the club  with his total available monies, on the basis that he thought we could survive in the championship with the players we have until the second and third parachute payments kicked in, hence we have no monies this season to improve the team.

its just a thought as we are getting a £42m parachute payment this year we got £20m from the sale of players, wages have been chopped due to relegation, but we are told we have no money (which I find hard to believe) despite making a profit last year. I don’t suppose we will ever know

or maybe he wouldnt have outside investment because they would scrutinise where all moneys gone and want to look at books.something doesnt add up to me 👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑👏🐑

[Baby-face Frankenstein]

Aug 22, 2019 10:04:11 GMT 1 @harrison said:

Aug 22, 2019 9:49:48 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Yes he has asked for it back

How the bell do you or anyone else know . This endless talk of who has the money ,who hasn't the money ,who wants the money is just bleeding tedious .
Why should we be privy to all the club's finances !

Tbf, harrison, even David Wagner announced publicly that DH would be getting at least some of his investment back.

"Kicker" interview in August 2017.

I don't have the magazine anymore, but this is what I quoted from the article around that time:

"In a recent interview with a German football magazine, DW was asked why Town's 33 million EUR budget isn't even higher, bearing in mind the TV money received and that 33 m is only marginally more than a club like Freiburg in Germany, who don't come close to being a financial big-hitter in the Bundesliga. DW replied that in terms of salary structures, we like to think we're staying in good health and are just being totally realistic - jokingly adding that we're doing things more "German" than "English". We're also spending 20 million on modernising the training facilities and stadium, and our owner is wanting to recuperate part of the money he's invested"

So I would think he's already received some of his investment back. How much, obviously, we don't know.

[E4b]

Deano’s gets his money back and we go back to where we came from (League 1). It was a nice experiment but apart from a handful of memorable days we are going back to the Huddersfield Town we all know.

[bigtruck]

Aug 22, 2019 10:04:11 GMT 1 @harrison said:

Aug 22, 2019 9:49:48 GMT 1 bigtruck said:

Yes he has asked for it back

How the bell do you or anyone else know . This endless talk of who has the money ,who hasn't the money ,who wants the money is just bleeding tedious .
Why should we be privy to all the club's finances !

I’m just saying what I know. He hasn’t received all the money back yet but had asked for it.

[Deleted]

I personally find it hard to believe Dean would sell the club to someone who could only pay him back using the parachute money, knowing full well it would cripple the club for several years. He spent millions and a lot of time and effort just to get us to the Championship, I doubt he would want all that thrown away to get money back he obviously does not need.

While it would be nice for some kind of statement about this and what went on in the transfer window, I think certain people have already made their minds up about PH so it would be a waste of time trying to convince them they are wrong.

I am just as frustrated as everyone else with the current mess on the field and our lack of transfer activity in certain areas like LEFT BACK but instead of spreading rumors about the old owner and the new owner lets get behind the team. No manager is going to come in and turn this around overnight. It is going to take some time to build confidence and get us playing like we can. Lets hope they can find someone with the ability and the will to take this on.

[York Terrier]

Aug 22, 2019 9:14:37 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Aug 22, 2019 9:06:04 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

But you are saying we have lots of money do you know that or are you just guessing? In my post I ask a few questions that I am unable to work out. I know the bit about the American consortium is true, you have this totally annoying habit of putting everyone down with snide stupid comments that in most instances have absolutely no relevance to the subject matter. I don’t know if DH wants his money back it’s just a question.

And please don’t play the wounded soldier about a bit of abuse, when you may have had a light bulb moment and thought maybe I am wrong, because if anyone on this forum deserves any personal abuse it’s you,so if you can’t take it stop dishing it out.

Reading.. let's get this straight.. I'm not starting threads saying "we have lots of money " because I'm not a guesser like you . I do know that there was lots of deadline day frustration that's all I'll say .. and 're personal abuse you carry on if it makes your chippy little soul feel better

Just read the Initial Post and tell me very simply ( if you can) how you can possibly say I have said we have lots of money, When you can just answer that very simple question everyone will stop laughing at your mindless posts

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Aug 22, 2019 7:56:48 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

"Im trying to work out why we suddenly have no money "

Another guesser. Who says we don't have money . We DO have money. The problem we have is that the window is now closed . Stop making stuff up ffs you're an old man behaving like an 8 year old

The question is then how have we found ourselves in that position then?

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2019 9:07:50 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) said:

Classic town - 2 years on the gravy train and no gravy to show for it...

The Marie Celeste of gravy boats............

[Made In Yorkshire]

Anyone else remember being told that our two years in the PL meant Town were financially secure for the next 10 years?

[Chips Longhorn]

Aug 22, 2019 11:16:31 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

Aug 22, 2019 9:14:37 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Reading.. let's get this straight.. I'm not starting threads saying "we have lots of money " because I'm not a guesser like you . I do know that there was lots of deadline day frustration that's all I'll say .. and 're personal abuse you carry on if it makes your chippy little soul feel better

Just read the Initial Post and tell me very simply ( if you can) how you can possibly say I have said we have lots of money, When you can just answer that very simple question everyone will stop laughing at your mindless posts

And I quote

"I have been trying to work out why suddenly.we have NO MONEY"


I'll leave it there have a great day in your nonentity region of the UK

[Chips Longhorn]

Aug 22, 2019 11:29:59 GMT 1 Made In Yorkshire said:

Anyone else remember being told that our two years in the PL meant Town were financially secure for the next 10 years?

Why do you think (with good management ) that's not the case?

[Made In Yorkshire]

I'm not saying it isn't. But the vast majority of fans equate that financial security and success with being able to compete with the rest of the league. They also thought that there would be a genuine attempt while in such a strong position to be the third Yorkshire team challenging for promotion.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2019 11:32:01 GMT 1 Chips Longhorn said:

Aug 22, 2019 11:29:59 GMT 1 Made In Yorkshire said:

Anyone else remember being told that our two years in the PL meant Town were financially secure for the next 10 years?

Why do you think (with good management ) that's not the case?

we will be in a better state than many that's for sure

[rastrick32]

Aug 22, 2019 11:22:20 GMT 1 @delaval said:

Aug 22, 2019 9:07:50 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) said:

Classic town - 2 years on the gravy train and no gravy to show for it...

The Marie Celeste of gravy boats............

With Lord Lucan doing the pouring....

[rastrick32]

I'm sure I recall a parable about the three sons who inherit some wealth. We are that twatty son, who has buried his jewels in the back garden.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2019 7:43:08 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

i have been trying to work out why we suddenly have no money and all I can think is that DH has insisted that he is paid back all his money previously invested. Prior to DH selling the club I posted that there was a due diligence process being undertaken by an American consortium. It’s only supposition but I wonder if the Americans would not agree to pay DH back his previous investment as they needed the money to invest in the team?

On the other hand Phil ( who is hard to like) was so star struck by being given the opportunity to take over agreed to refund DH his previous investments from the parachute payments and picked up the club  with his total available monies, on the basis that he thought we could survive in the championship with the players we have until the second and third parachute payments kicked in, hence we have no monies this season to improve the team.

its just a thought as we are getting a £42m parachute payment this year we got £20m from the sale of players, wages have been chopped due to relegation, but we are told we have no money (which I find hard to believe) despite making a profit last year. I don’t suppose we will ever know

Transfer fees are handled separately.

Wage bill for the FIRST EPL season was around £60m, so last year likely to be an increase on that (still low by EPL standards)....let’s assume £65m or so?

Assuming EVERY player had a 40% cut, that’s a wage bill around £40m.

Sure, we’ve lost Mooy and Zanka who will have been big earners, and Billing (who likely won’t have been earning quite as much, players who come through the ranks always tend to be lower paid than those that are “enticed” in...similar with Tommy Smith)...but likewise Elphick and Campbell won’t be cheap (Hull couldn’t meet Campbell’s expectation apparently?). Plus wages for Grabera and Chalobah we’re probably paying a decent lump of, Chelsea’s no name players get HUGE contracts compared to our U23s.

So whilst wage has likely dropped this season even with all the lower league players coming in, it’s still pretty close to the parachute amount received. And that parachute decreases and disappears, which is what the club has to transition to as the new normal...you can never plan for promotion unfortunately.

Money is going to be tight. The raw numbers tell you that very very obviously.

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2019 11:29:59 GMT 1 Made In Yorkshire said:

Anyone else remember being told that our two years in the PL meant Town were financially secure for the next 10 years?

I don’t remember, I remember someone using it as a way of adding context to the numbers by saying that we’d had revenues in the EPL equivalent to roughly 10 years (or 15 years if prudent) of typical Championship revenues.

BUT,..we don’t have typical Championship costs at the moment.

And I guess the other point is...why do you think the club ISNT financially secure for the next 10 years, I know Phill has stated he knows what’s required from him to run the club ongoing over the next ten years and he has and will make available the finances to support that.

We”re just transitioning to being a Championship club thats all...it doesn’t make sense to look at numbers or look at the amount of lower league players we’ve signed and moan about if...we’re doing exactly what Championship clubs do.

[Baby-face Frankenstein]

Aug 22, 2019 11:39:12 GMT 1 @bacunafrittata said:

Aug 22, 2019 7:43:08 GMT 1 York Terrier said:

i have been trying to work out why we suddenly have no money and all I can think is that DH has insisted that he is paid back all his money previously invested. Prior to DH selling the club I posted that there was a due diligence process being undertaken by an American consortium. It’s only supposition but I wonder if the Americans would not agree to pay DH back his previous investment as they needed the money to invest in the team?

On the other hand Phil ( who is hard to like) was so star struck by being given the opportunity to take over agreed to refund DH his previous investments from the parachute payments and picked up the club  with his total available monies, on the basis that he thought we could survive in the championship with the players we have until the second and third parachute payments kicked in, hence we have no monies this season to improve the team.

its just a thought as we are getting a £42m parachute payment this year we got £20m from the sale of players, wages have been chopped due to relegation, but we are told we have no money (which I find hard to believe) despite making a profit last year. I don’t suppose we will ever know

Transfer fees are handled separately.

Wage bill for the FIRST EPL season was around £60m, so last year likely to be an increase on that (still low by EPL standards)....let’s assume £65m or so?

Assuming EVERY player had a 40% cut, that’s a wage bill around £40m.

Sure, we’ve lost Mooy and Zanka who will have been big earners, and Billing (who likely won’t have been earning quite as much, players who come through the ranks always tend to be lower paid than those that are “enticed” in...similar with Tommy Smith)...but likewise Elphick and Campbell won’t be cheap (Hull couldn’t meet Campbell’s expectation apparently?). Plus wages for Grabera and Chalobah we’re probably paying a decent lump of, Chelsea’s no name players get HUGE contracts compared to our U23s.

So whilst wage has likely dropped this season even with all the lower league players coming in, it’s still pretty close to the parachute amount received. And that parachute decreases and disappears, which is what the club has to transition to as the new normal...you can never plan for promotion unfortunately.

Money is going to be tight. The raw numbers tell you that very very obviously.

According to David Wagner, our wage bill for that first PL season was more like 30 million. At the time, the next lowest wage bill for that year was Brighton on 60 million. So we were operating on a wage budget half of what our nearest (perceived) rivals were.

[Wagner Uber Alles]

We’ve got money, but it wasn’t spent because the new DoF wasn’t in place in time and probably PH wasn’t 100% sure JS was the man to spend any significant sum.

He’s clearly needing to sort out the pile of crap which he inherited, and he’ll most likely create a new spending plan with the DoF and new manager when he arrives.

PH has only just arrived recently, he clearly said 3 windows. I just don’t get the level of hysteria by some people believing that 2 + 2 is 22.

[Big Ern]

Aug 22, 2019 11:58:14 GMT 1 Wagner Uber Alles said:

We’ve got money, but it wasn’t spent because the new DoF wasn’t in place in time and probably PH wasn’t 100% sure JS was the man to spend any significant sum.

He’s clearly needing to sort out the pile of crap which he inherited, and he’ll most likely create a new spending plan with the DoF and new manager when he arrives.

PH has only just arrived recently, he clearly said 3 windows. I just don’t get the level of hysteria by some people believing that 2 + 2 is 22.

No but 0+1+0+0=1 which is how many points this squad has gotten us so far.

We were relegated in march, its criminal that we ended the transfer window with the dross we have

[Baby-face Frankenstein]

Aug 22, 2019 11:56:18 GMT 1 Baby-face Frankenstein said:

Aug 22, 2019 11:39:12 GMT 1 @bacunafrittata said:

Transfer fees are handled separately.

Wage bill for the FIRST EPL season was around £60m, so last year likely to be an increase on that (still low by EPL standards)....let’s assume £65m or so?

Assuming EVERY player had a 40% cut, that’s a wage bill around £40m.

Sure, we’ve lost Mooy and Zanka who will have been big earners, and Billing (who likely won’t have been earning quite as much, players who come through the ranks always tend to be lower paid than those that are “enticed” in...similar with Tommy Smith)...but likewise Elphick and Campbell won’t be cheap (Hull couldn’t meet Campbell’s expectation apparently?). Plus wages for Grabera and Chalobah we’re probably paying a decent lump of, Chelsea’s no name players get HUGE contracts compared to our U23s.

So whilst wage has likely dropped this season even with all the lower league players coming in, it’s still pretty close to the parachute amount received. And that parachute decreases and disappears, which is what the club has to transition to as the new normal...you can never plan for promotion unfortunately.

Money is going to be tight. The raw numbers tell you that very very obviously.

According to David Wagner, our wage bill for that first PL season was more like 30 million. At the time, the next lowest wage bill for that year was Brighton on 60 million. So we were operating on a wage budget half of what our nearest (perceived) rivals were.

On the other hand, this source maintains it was around 60 million, maybe they were including all the bonuses for staying up. Bit puzzling, but even if 20 players, say, were on 30 000 a week, that would make 31.1 million - so I'm guessing the 60 million must have included other things.

www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city

[Million Dollar Babies]

I bet Phil is wishing he said no to Dean's offer

Wonder what the current situation would be if he had done. Dean still in charge or Americans running the show