Has Dean said he wants all his money back?

[Mecha Corte]

One point that keeps being overlooked in the many and varied guesstimates as to what our wage bill might be - everybody keeps quoting it against a first team squad if 25 players, I'm fully aware that they will swallow the lions share but don't forget we've also got a small army of other employees, directors,manager, assistant, fitness coach, scouts, goalkeeper coach, kitman, physio, ticket office staff, shop staff, cleaners, maintenance, groundsmen, commercial department, hospitality, stewards, programme sellers and not forgetting everyone one involved in the various youth teams.

No doubt the lowest earners will only be on minium wage for a few hours a week but there will a good few who are on way above what's the average yearly wage (around £35k I think) and we as a club can't glibly dismiss a few million pounds as something and nothing, our entire revenue for turnstile admissions will be around £4M this season.

People really need to think of that for a minute, every Tom, Dick, Harry and away fan that turns up to every home game and either pays cash or produces a season card to get in contribute approximately £4M this season, probably not enough to cover the wages for Schindler and Kongolo for the season.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2019 11:58:53 GMT 1 Mecha Corte said:

One point that keeps being overlooked in the many and varied guesstimates as to what our wage bill might be - everybody keeps quoting it against a first team squad if 25 players, I'm fully aware that they will swallow the lions share but don't forget we've also got a small army of other employees, directors,manager, assistant, fitness coach, scouts, goalkeeper coach, kitman, physio, ticket office staff, shop staff, cleaners, maintenance, groundsmen, commercial department, hospitality, stewards, programme sellers and not forgetting everyone one involved in the various youth teams.

No doubt the lowest earners will only be on minium wage for a few hours a week but there will a good few who are on way above what's the average yearly wage (around £35k I think) and we as a club can't glibly dismiss a few million pounds as something and nothing, our entire revenue for turnstile admissions will be around £4M this season.

People really need to think of that for a minute, every Tom, Dick, Harry and away fan that turns up to every home game and either pays cash or produces a season card to get in contribute approximately £4M this season, probably not enough to cover the wages for Schindler and Kongolo for the season.

Yep puts it in a different light doesn't it.  I said in an earlier comment if Dean Hoyle was putting in an average of 5 million a year when we were in the Championship with a wage bill of 8 to 10 million, imagine what needs to be put in now when our wage bill is at least double that.  Thats what the parachute payments are intended to cover until the contracts your big earners expire and you are no longer facing such a shortfall.

I do think money from sales like Billing should be available but again it cant all go on transfer fees some has to be used to cover wages for whoever you sign as our regular income is not going to do that.

[Frankiesleftpeg]

Aug 29, 2019 11:58:53 GMT 1 Mecha Corte said:

One point that keeps being overlooked in the many and varied guesstimates as to what our wage bill might be - everybody keeps quoting it against a first team squad if 25 players, I'm fully aware that they will swallow the lions share but don't forget we've also got a small army of other employees, directors,manager, assistant, fitness coach, scouts, goalkeeper coach, kitman, physio, ticket office staff, shop staff, cleaners, maintenance, groundsmen, commercial department, hospitality, stewards, programme sellers and not forgetting everyone one involved in the various youth teams.

No doubt the lowest earners will only be on minium wage for a few hours a week but there will a good few who are on way above what's the average yearly wage (around £35k I think) and we as a club can't glibly dismiss a few million pounds as something and nothing, our entire revenue for turnstile admissions will be around £4M this season.

People really need to think of that for a minute, every Tom, Dick, Harry and away fan that turns up to every home game and either pays cash or produces a season card to get in contribute approximately £4M this season, probably not enough to cover the wages for Schindler and Kongolo for the season.

Points usually forgotten/ignored by some folk when asking where the money's gone. In some people's mind its the amount spent is on players wages & transfer fees and that's it.

[BoltonTerrier]

Dunno if this has already been posted on this thread as I dont really post/read here anymore.. Includes the wage bill and shows a 30m profit made by town on first year in the prem. Id assume year 2 figures would be similar... After reading this I cant see how it adds upto 300m spent since we went up...

[Nickhudds.UTT]

Not looking all legitimate is it boys

[aca00js]

The longer the club stay silent on this the worse it will get.

I thought the club was transpaet?

[overtonterrierspirit]

Aug 31, 2019 17:50:47 GMT 1 aca00js said:

The longer the club stay silent on this the worse it will get.

I thought the club was transpaet?

Not any more it seems.
The close bond between club and fans no longer exists

[Up the Duff.]

All money has been pulled, Dean wants his money back and it is going to hurt us... he does however have a right to ask for it back.

Shame we didn't get a buyer who could then fund the club going forward.

[Million Dollar Babies]

Aug 31, 2019 18:04:47 GMT 1 Up the Duff. said:

All money has been pulled, Dean wants his money back and it is going to hurt us... he does however have a right to ask for it back.

Shame we didn't get a buyer who could then fund the club going forward.

What would have happened if we hadn't gone up and he became ill? Was he always going to ask for it all back because if so we'd have been right up shit creek without promotion to the Premier League

I always thought he would write it off like Eddie Davies did

[woodyterrier29]

Aug 31, 2019 17:43:46 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Dunno if this has already been posted on this thread as I dont really post/read here anymore.. Includes the wage bill and shows a 30m profit made by town on first year in the prem. Id assume year 2 figures would be similar... After reading this I cant see how it adds upto 300m spent since we went up...

Is no one going to question this?

Bordering disgraceful if these figures are true. Time to take the blinkers off town fans and start asking some pertinent questions about where the hell all the money has gone/is going.

[BoltonTerrier]

Aug 31, 2019 18:27:38 GMT 1 woodyterrier29 said:

Aug 31, 2019 17:43:46 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Dunno if this has already been posted on this thread as I dont really post/read here anymore.. Includes the wage bill and shows a 30m profit made by town on first year in the prem. Id assume year 2 figures would be similar... After reading this I cant see how it adds upto 300m spent since we went up...

Is no one going to question this?

Bordering disgraceful if these figures are true. Time to take the blinkers off town fans and start asking some pertinent questions about where the hell all the money has gone/is going.

I read this on twitter last year so was extremely shocked when I heard PH say that all the money had already been spent.... Assuming we made a similar profit last year 20-30m and then around £20m in player sales over the summer thats £80m profit before we got the parachute payment. Even after paying dean back that still leaves a £40m ish hole... If we are saving the money and being prudent over the next few years thats fair enough. If its gone and we're waiting on next parachute payment then some serious explaining needs to be done!!

[Million Dollar Babies]

Aug 31, 2019 18:34:44 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Aug 31, 2019 18:27:38 GMT 1 woodyterrier29 said:

Is no one going to question this?

Bordering disgraceful if these figures are true. Time to take the blinkers off town fans and start asking some pertinent questions about where the hell all the money has gone/is going.

I read this on twitter last year so was extremely shocked when I heard PH say that all the money had already been spent.... Assuming we made a similar profit last year 20-30m and then around £20m in player sales over the summer thats £80m profit before we got the parachute payment. Even after paying dean back that still leaves a £40m ish hole... If we are saving the money and being prudent over the next few years thats fair enough. If its gone and we're waiting on next parachute payment then some serious explaining needs to be done!!

Certainly needs to be looked in to after what's gone on this week with Bury and Bolton. DH and PH would never do anything to hurt the club but it looks like they've agreed a deal which definitely doesn't help us

[woodyterrier29]

Aug 31, 2019 18:34:44 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Aug 31, 2019 18:27:38 GMT 1 woodyterrier29 said:

Is no one going to question this?

Bordering disgraceful if these figures are true. Time to take the blinkers off town fans and start asking some pertinent questions about where the hell all the money has gone/is going.

I read this on twitter last year so was extremely shocked when I heard PH say that all the money had already been spent.... Assuming we made a similar profit last year 20-30m and then around £20m in player sales over the summer thats £80m profit before we got the parachute payment. Even after paying dean back that still leaves a £40m ish hole... If we are saving the money and being prudent over the next few years thats fair enough. If its gone and we're waiting on next parachute payment then some serious explaining needs to be done!!

Indeed!

[deadleg]

Could be my memory but didn't he say the Premier League money was 'accounted for', rather than spent? If so that suggests more that it's set aside rather than gone completely?

[Up the Duff.]

Aug 31, 2019 18:13:18 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

Aug 31, 2019 18:04:47 GMT 1 Up the Duff. said:

All money has been pulled, Dean wants his money back and it is going to hurt us... he does however have a right to ask for it back.

Shame we didn't get a buyer who could then fund the club going forward.

What would have happened if we hadn't gone up and he became ill? Was he always going to ask for it all back because if so we'd have been right up shit creek without promotion to the Premier League

I always thought he would write it off like Eddie Davies did

I think originally he never expected to get it back and suggested he as such but I think the premier league money gave him the chance to get it back.

[specialun]

Aug 31, 2019 18:04:47 GMT 1 Up the Duff. said:

All money has been pulled, Dean wants his money back and it is going to hurt us... he does however have a right to ask for it back.

Shame we didn't get a buyer who could then fund the club going forward.

How do you know we couldn’t?

We ran a sale process

But Hodgkinson was approached by his mate Hoyle

Simple questions for Hoyle
1. How many parties were approached
2. How many indicative offers were received
3. How many parties were allowed to proceed to second round bidding
4. How many parties were allowed to undertake diligence to the same level as Hodgkinson before final bids
5. Did you approach Hodgkinson as PH says
6. If so when did you approach Hodgkinson
7. As a statutory director why are you comfortable that the sale to Hodgkinson offers the best outcome for all stakeholders - not just the shareholder (Hoyle)
8. Which of Phil’s Pure businesses is profitable

Perhaps he might want to join PH at the next Q&A

[Up the Duff.]

Said didn't not couldnt

[runner76]

Aug 31, 2019 19:08:24 GMT 1 specialun said:

Aug 31, 2019 18:04:47 GMT 1 Up the Duff. said:

All money has been pulled, Dean wants his money back and it is going to hurt us... he does however have a right to ask for it back.

Shame we didn't get a buyer who could then fund the club going forward.

How do you know we couldn’t?

We ran a sale process

But Hodgkinson was approached by his mate Hoyle

Simple questions for Hoyle
1. How many parties were approached
2. How many indicative offers were received
3. How many parties were allowed to proceed to second round bidding
4. How many parties were allowed to undertake diligence to the same level as Hodgkinson before final bids
5. Did you approach Hodgkinson as PH says
6. If so when did you approach Hodgkinson

Answers back will be mind your own business!!!!

[specialun]

Aug 31, 2019 19:14:46 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Aug 31, 2019 19:08:24 GMT 1 specialun said:

How do you know we couldn’t?

We ran a sale process

But Hodgkinson was approached by his mate Hoyle

Simple questions for Hoyle
1. How many parties were approached
2. How many indicative offers were received
3. How many parties were allowed to proceed to second round bidding
4. How many parties were allowed to undertake diligence to the same level as Hodgkinson before final bids
5. Did you approach Hodgkinson as PH says
6. If so when did you approach Hodgkinson

Answers back will be mind your own business!!!!

To which I would ask my 7th question about his statutory duties as a Director of the football club company

7. As a statutory director why are you comfortable that the sale to Hodgkinson offers the best outcome for all stakeholders - not just the shareholder (Hoyle)

Including how as part of this sale he was sure as a Director with statutory director duties

- this would be the best offer to ‘promote the success of the company’ over other interest

- how did he avoid a ‘conflict of interest’ as a Director fulfilling duties with his role as sole shareholder

The latter could be answered by the sale process, assuming PH was the best offer

[zoso]

Aug 31, 2019 19:14:46 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Aug 31, 2019 19:08:24 GMT 1 specialun said:

How do you know we couldn’t?

We ran a sale process

But Hodgkinson was approached by his mate Hoyle

Simple questions for Hoyle
1. How many parties were approached
2. How many indicative offers were received
3. How many parties were allowed to proceed to second round bidding
4. How many parties were allowed to undertake diligence to the same level as Hodgkinson before final bids
5. Did you approach Hodgkinson as PH says
6. If so when did you approach Hodgkinson

Answers back will be mind your own business!!!!

Yep, that's pretty much how I see it!

[E4b]

These guys are businessmen and will have shat on many people to reach their wealth. They want to make profit, that’s what they’re all about.

[drewden]

Stab in the dark here, maybe Dh and Ph have mustered up a cunning plan, stripped the club finances, and sitting pretty in an offshore account.

After all a no deal Brexit is going to send this country into a financial uncertainty, a lot of investments will be at high risk.

When the storm is over the money magically reappears.

[k1man999]

The club, deano, PH etc will tell us what ever they want us to hear to keep us at arms length they are businessmen.
Cracks are appearing in what we have been told as each one keeps telling stories in interviews etc details change in their own stories or differences in same tales told by each person.
Hopefully big phill makes a statement with the new management and funds some free transfers.

[Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier]

Dean Hoyle did not get where he is today without being what i would descibe as ruthless businessman ,and maybe more of a case here of him being businessman first -town fan second especially when it comes down to money.

It doesnt really matter where all the premier league money has gone  as surely every penny profit made by Hoyle at his time as chairman belongs to him " AS OWNER " 

PH will have to " START FROM SCRATCH " with his investment , but sadly he has taken on a poor squad mainly made up of players who contributed to the club having the second worst record in premier league history.

The bigger question that needs answering is where are the strengthening funds coming from for the club to avoid relegation

[aca00js]

Aug 31, 2019 18:04:47 GMT 1 Up the Duff. said:

All money has been pulled, Dean wants his money back and it is going to hurt us... he does however have a right to ask for it back.

Shame we didn't get a buyer who could then fund the club going forward.

My problem with statements like that is that Dean would have double hurt the club and would taint his legacy, I can't see that is the case. But the longer the silence from the club on this matter goes on makes it look like answers they don't want to give.

[allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF)]

Aug 31, 2019 20:12:14 GMT 1 drewden said:

Stab in the dark here, maybe Dh and Ph have mustered up a cunning plan, stripped the club finances, and sitting pretty in an offshore account.

After all a no deal Brexit is going to send this country into a financial uncertainty, a lot of investments will be at high risk.

When the storm is over the money magically reappears.

what...………………………………………...

[allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF)]

I understand the stress people feel about the fall in our club's fortunes, but, many financial transaction are complex and hold non disclosure conditions. I am guessing there are still transactions in motion and they can not be disclosed.

Often if you cant tell the truth say nowt.

I do not believe Dean would screw the fans, he never entered into the clubs ownership to make money, plus he still has 250 million from the sale.

High achievers always revert to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Dean would not tarnish his "place in the sun" for a few extra quid.

[hthtafs]

Saw dean in Dixon’s this afternoon ... he was eating a 99 with a double flake and extra juice. I think it’s safe to say he wouldn’t have such extravagant tastes if he hadn’t made a fair few quid out of offloading the club. 😉

[terrier25]

Aug 31, 2019 18:34:44 GMT 1 BoltonTerrier said:

Aug 31, 2019 18:27:38 GMT 1 woodyterrier29 said:

Is no one going to question this?

Bordering disgraceful if these figures are true. Time to take the blinkers off town fans and start asking some pertinent questions about where the hell all the money has gone/is going.

I read this on twitter last year so was extremely shocked when I heard PH say that all the money had already been spent.... Assuming we made a similar profit last year 20-30m and then around £20m in player sales over the summer thats £80m profit before we got the parachute payment. Even after paying dean back that still leaves a £40m ish hole... If we are saving the money and being prudent over the next few years thats fair enough. If its gone and we're waiting on next parachute payment then some serious explaining needs to be done!!

The profit from each season in the prem (i imagine 2nd season more profitable due to no survival bonuses) should cover Deans losses over the years. Then he will want the value of the club paying to him to sell - this could be the parachutes or phil’s own money. Either way it means there aint much left to splash about unless we sell more players and other than Mooy and TK we aint got anyone worth decent money.
On the plus side we are probably debt free and may be an attractive acquisition for someone who has a few bob. Phil might be buying in order to sell again.

[billy143]

How much did PH pay DH for 75% of the club?