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Post by themanfromatlantis on Nov 29, 2019 21:39:18 GMT 1
Given your research into this following the various investigations, investigations and inquiries, can you tell us how many ticketless fans there were? Round figures will do. Not hundreds....thousands. I have zero doubt. If you ever try and become a JP (assuming you're not actually a QC), feel free to send a character reference across to me...
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Post by Leporid on Nov 29, 2019 21:40:46 GMT 1
Given your research into this following the various investigations, investigations and inquiries, can you tell us how many ticketless fans there were? Round figures will do. Not hundreds....thousands. I have zero doubt. You may well have zero doubt, and, as such, it is a characteristic of people of below average and average intelligence, but what factual information is the basis of your opinion? Examples might be the investigations of the South Yorkshire Police, Operation Resolve, inter alia.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 29, 2019 21:48:51 GMT 1
As a man who went to lots of big games in the 80's I know what went on.....particularly with Man Utd and Liverpool. Ever heard of "jibbing it in"? I lived 20 years in Manchester and worked a lot in Liverpool....it went with the Saturday territory. I once met 40 Scousers on a train in Europe following England....not a ticket for the train or the match between them...some did not even have a passport! If I added up all the years you have claimed to live in different parts of the world on here I reckon you would be around 300 years old. Lived in Prestwich, Denton, Reddish...most of my mates are United and City fans. Worked in Manchester (and Liverpool) for 25 years. I moved home only this week...yesterday I was in Hungary....and then London for drinks. I bought and lived in 9 properties in 8 years. A rolling stone. Some have a life lived and some live in chicken coop behind net curtains.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 29, 2019 21:53:35 GMT 1
Not hundreds....thousands. I have zero doubt. You may well have zero doubt, and, as such, it is a characteristic of people of below average and average intelligence, but what factual information is the basis of your opinion? Examples might be the investigations of the South Yorkshire Police, Operation Resolve, inter alia. The sheer fact that every Liverpool or Man Utd game I ever attended had hundreds without tickets makes me believe Hillsborough was the same. Went to three Liverpool games recently....same as outside. Have you not seen the footage? Lads not queuing but pushing/surging. No-one waving their ticket was there? Big games in the 80's always had this dynamic....even Town matches. Climb over, blag in, push the gates in....all pretty de rigeur back then. It was certainly part of the problem that day.
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Post by 28901 on Nov 29, 2019 22:16:05 GMT 1
If I added up all the years you have claimed to live in different parts of the world on here I reckon you would be around 300 years old. Lived in Prestwich, Denton, Reddish...most of my mates are United and City fans. Worked in Manchester (and Liverpool) for 25 years. I moved home only this week...yesterday I was in Hungary....and then London for drinks. I bought and lived in 9 properties in 8 years. A rolling stone. Some have a life lived and some live in chicken coop behind net curtains. They do I agree. But you know zero facts about me.
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Post by sapphireblue on Nov 29, 2019 22:31:57 GMT 1
We're agreeing on various things but we aren't going to agree on whether Liverpool fans behaviour was also part of the cause of the disaster. The reports? There seemed a political directive to entirely blame the supporters in the immediate aftermath but its like theres been a political directive to entirely absolve them of all blame ever since. Neither are true IMO. 😵 Mate. Delete that please
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Post by Leporid on Nov 29, 2019 22:52:11 GMT 1
You may well have zero doubt, and, as such, it is a characteristic of people of below average and average intelligence, but what factual information is the basis of your opinion? Examples might be the investigations of the South Yorkshire Police, Operation Resolve, inter alia. The sheer fact that every Liverpool or Man Utd game I ever attended had hundreds without tickets makes me believe Hillsborough was the same. Went to three Liverpool games recently....same as outside. Have you not seen the footage? Lads not queuing but pushing/surging. No-one waving their ticket was there? Big games in the 80's always had this dynamic....even Town matches. Climb over, blag in, push the gates in....all pretty de rigeur back then. It was certainly part of the problem that day. Ot, no information from you to add then. The past cannot be taken as a guide to the future as any fule kno. What is blindingly obvious is that there were many examples of neglectfulness, errors of judgement, incompetence, organisational laziness and old fashioned mistakes well before and on the day of the match. Some of the errors of planning and failure were very basic, eg, the limited number of turnstiles that were open, thus leading to crushes in areas outside the ground.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 29, 2019 23:12:33 GMT 1
The sheer fact that every Liverpool or Man Utd game I ever attended had hundreds without tickets makes me believe Hillsborough was the same. Went to three Liverpool games recently....same as outside. Have you not seen the footage? Lads not queuing but pushing/surging. No-one waving their ticket was there? Big games in the 80's always had this dynamic....even Town matches. Climb over, blag in, push the gates in....all pretty de rigeur back then. It was certainly part of the problem that day. Ot, no information from you to add then. The past cannot be taken as a guide to the future as any fule kno. What is blindingly obvious is that there were many examples of neglectfulness, errors of judgement, incompetence, organisational laziness and old fashioned mistakes well before and on the day of the match. Some of the errors of planning and failure were very basic, eg, the limited number of turnstiles that were open, thus leading to crushes in areas outside the ground. I concede all that....I am not trying to apportion blame...I am trying to say the Duckenfield was made a scapegoat. Someone always has to hang.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Nov 30, 2019 8:46:39 GMT 1
Ot, no information from you to add then. The past cannot be taken as a guide to the future as any fule kno. What is blindingly obvious is that there were many examples of neglectfulness, errors of judgement, incompetence, organisational laziness and old fashioned mistakes well before and on the day of the match. Some of the errors of planning and failure were very basic, eg, the limited number of turnstiles that were open, thus leading to crushes in areas outside the ground. I concede all that....I am not trying to apportion blame...I am trying to say the Duckenfield was made a scapegoat. Someone always has to hang. Oh the irony... Compared to your rabid tones elsewhere, where you don't seem to have a problem hanging folk... Oti the infallible...
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 30, 2019 9:06:51 GMT 1
I concede all that....I am not trying to apportion blame...I am trying to say the Duckenfield was made a scapegoat. Someone always has to hang. Oh the irony... Compared to your rabid tones elsewhere, where you don't seem to have a problem hanging folk... Oti the infallible... The day you agree with me we will both be wrong Fishy. Hope you get those Postman Pat jimjams you sent the letter to Santa about. Don't forget to vote either...Labour is the red one that starts with "L" for ladybird...and lice.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 30, 2019 9:11:14 GMT 1
P.S Had we hung the filth on London Bridge last time he wanted to kill innocents two families would not be without loved ones today. Ban the mosque, stop Islamic immigration, close the radicalising bookshops/colleges/madrassa's. Lock up the fervent preachers who demand sharia...show them a bit of British law....sedition and treason are still on the statutes I believe.
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Post by drumriggend on Nov 30, 2019 9:46:11 GMT 1
My final word on hillsbro.. It was a hideous tragedy.. But people get killed every day thru no fault of their own.. Its the current culture to try to pin the blame on somebody.. Duckenfield has now been tried in the courts.. And found not guilty.. So they were victims of.. Fate.. Circumstance.. Bad luck.. Bad planning.. Call it what you like.. But not a criminal act.. The verdict may not be what the families wanted.. But.. It is by definition.. Justice..
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Nov 30, 2019 10:07:08 GMT 1
My final word on hillsbro.. It was a hideous tragedy.. But people get killed every day thru no fault of their own.. Its the current culture to try to pin the blame on somebody.. Duckenfield has now been tried in the courts.. And found not guilty.. So they were victims of.. Fate.. Circumstance.. Bad luck.. Bad planning.. Call it what you like.. But not a criminal act.. The verdict may not be what the families wanted.. But.. It is by definition.. Justice.. Brainwashed by the establishment...
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Macduff
Andy Booth Terrier
I've got a Gibson without a case but I cant get that even tanned look on my face.
Posts: 3,868
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Post by Macduff on Nov 30, 2019 10:21:01 GMT 1
If I added up all the years you have claimed to live in different parts of the world on here I reckon you would be around 300 years old. Lived in Prestwich, Denton, Reddish...most of my mates are United and City fans. Worked in Manchester (and Liverpool) for 25 years. I moved home only this week...yesterday I was in Hungary....and then London for drinks. I bought and lived in 9 properties in 8 years. A rolling stone. Some have a life lived and some live in chicken coop behind net curtains. No matter how much you tell us (and boy do you tell us) you've crammed into your life I'm afraid it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone elses. Judging from the above you're just a rootless drifter, who likes to end his posts with a sneering dig at others. Seems like you've experienced a lot and learned nothing.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Nov 30, 2019 10:25:42 GMT 1
My final word on hillsbro.. It was a hideous tragedy.. But people get killed every day thru no fault of their own.. Its the current culture to try to pin the blame on somebody.. Duckenfield has now been tried in the courts.. And found not guilty.. So they were victims of.. Fate.. Circumstance.. Bad luck.. Bad planning.. Call it what you like.. But not a criminal act.. The verdict may not be what the families wanted.. But.. It is by definition.. Justice.. Brainwashed by the establishment... He'll be voting for the establishment come 12th December....if he can find his way to the polling station.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 10:31:57 GMT 1
My final word on hillsbro.. It was a hideous tragedy.. But people get killed every day thru no fault of their own.. Its the current culture to try to pin the blame on somebody.. Duckenfield has now been tried in the courts.. And found not guilty.. So they were victims of.. Fate.. Circumstance.. Bad luck.. Bad planning.. Call it what you like.. But not a criminal act.. The verdict may not be what the families wanted.. But.. It is by definition.. Justice.. Your penultimate act should have been to delete that heartless disgusting emoji!
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 30, 2019 11:01:39 GMT 1
Lived in Prestwich, Denton, Reddish...most of my mates are United and City fans. Worked in Manchester (and Liverpool) for 25 years. I moved home only this week...yesterday I was in Hungary....and then London for drinks. I bought and lived in 9 properties in 8 years. A rolling stone. Some have a life lived and some live in chicken coop behind net curtains. No matter how much you tell us (and boy do you tell us) you've crammed into your life I'm afraid it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone elses. Judging from the above you're just a rootless drifter, who likes to end his posts with a sneering dig at others. Seems like you've experienced a lot and learned nothing. And Boris Johnsons opinion is no more valid than the geezer sat begging under the railway arches in Huddersfield. Yeh, right. Ah, the leftie social engineers who would wipe away natural selection in favour of unisex, transgender toilets. How the "Emperors New Clothes" story reinvents itself. Perhaps, just perhaps, I have learned some of the truth. Graveyards are full of those who thought they were irreplaceable and indispensable. I wont be missed and seek no legacy. Guy in make-upon the news crying this morning because he had been "cancelled" on social media. He needed a kick in the arse. The news today is not fake lies its fake lives. Finally, we are all rootless drifters.
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Mav
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 754
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Post by Mav on Nov 30, 2019 11:17:02 GMT 1
Hope you’re doing OK Oti.
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