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Post by detox on Jun 6, 2021 11:46:32 GMT 1
£37m bank loan at 11% ..£4m interest pa...£78k pw... Isn't that about what we were told the prospective overseas buyers would charge us on their loans for buying the club ? And to think Dean once bragged about us having had Middlesbrough's pants down I don't know if the above figures are correct, I haven't seen the accounts yet..but this would be a short term commercial 'bridging loan' I believe they said ..for 3 months or so until PP was paid to us. I know when we got to the PL Dean had to loan the club some money to help pay for various things before we got our first PL cash payment, that loan , as all his loans were, was interest free. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jun 6, 2021 12:49:32 GMT 1
Isn't that about what we were told the prospective overseas buyers would charge us on their loans for buying the club ? And to think Dean once bragged about us having had Middlesbrough's pants down I don't know if the above figures are correct, I haven't seen the accounts yet..but this would be a short term commercial 'bridging loan' I believe they said ..for 3 months or so until PP was paid to us. I know when we got to the PL Dean had to loan the club some money to help pay for various things before we got our first PL cash payment, that loan , as all his loans were, was interest free. The loan was £31m from the bank repaybale within 18 months and should be paid in full by now unless its been re-negoitated. Interest payments on the loan were £3.6m plus an additional £730k interest on player purchases. The club also received approx 730k in interest, presumably on player sales. Dean Hoyle's bridging loan was settled and covered in the previous set of accounts (June 2019) |
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Post by softboy on Jun 6, 2021 13:30:01 GMT 1
I think he was trying to say that the club would be "debt free" to banks, other Lenders etc. So essentially he had control of this type of external borrowing. I don't think he meant to say DH would be paid off in full by 2022.
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Post by detox on Jun 6, 2021 14:10:43 GMT 1
I don't know if the above figures are correct, I haven't seen the accounts yet..but this would be a short term commercial 'bridging loan' I believe they said ..for 3 months or so until PP was paid to us. I know when we got to the PL Dean had to loan the club some money to help pay for various things before we got our first PL cash payment, that loan , as all his loans were, was interest free. The loan was £31m from the bank repaybale within 18 months and should be paid in full by now unless its been re-negoitated. Interest payments on the loan were £3.6m plus an additional £730k interest on player purchases. The club also received approx 730k in interest, presumably on player sales. Dean Hoyle's bridging loan was settled and covered in the previous set of accounts (June 2019) that's about 8% then ? |
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Post by Mecha Corte on Jun 6, 2021 14:16:49 GMT 1
For anyone who hasn’t seen there are a couple of interesting points from SMJ on the “Price of Football” thread regarding a missing £1M from the clubs coffers, to think, what 10 years ago, the idea of us spending a £1M on a player was far fetched, now we write it off like it’s shrapnel in your change !
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jun 6, 2021 14:33:37 GMT 1
For anyone who hasn’t seen there are a couple of interesting points from SMJ on the “Price of Football” thread regarding a missing £1M from the clubs coffers, to think, what 10 years ago, the idea of us spending a £1M on a player was far fetched, now we write it off like it’s shrapnel in your change ! No choice writing it off If it can't be recovered it's gone! |
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Post by Mecha Corte on Jun 6, 2021 16:15:15 GMT 1
For anyone who hasn’t seen there are a couple of interesting points from SMJ on the “Price of Football” thread regarding a missing £1M from the clubs coffers, to think, what 10 years ago, the idea of us spending a £1M on a player was far fetched, now we write it off like it’s shrapnel in your change ! No choice writing it off If it can't be recovered it's gone! Poorly worded on my part, dismiss it? |
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Post by andyeastleake on Jun 6, 2021 19:08:58 GMT 1
Can anyone with better accounts knowledge than me work out how much Phil has put into the club? I see loans from related parties is 0, and I don't think any extra capital has been invested in shares, but I'm assuming it could be hidden elsewhere. There is a comment at the start of the related party disclosures (which wasn't there last year). "The company has taken advantage of exemption.....not to disclose related party transactions with wholly owned subsidiaries within the group". I'd presume (but may of course be incorrect) that the group is Pure Sports Consultancy Limited and the comment is there so that Phil doesn't have to separately disclose his loans to the business. I'd raised a comment on the "Price of football" thread about the strange presentation of director loans and (on the face of it) an apparent missing (or perhaps that should be a reconciling difference) of £4m of directors loans (based on rounded figures). This may be PH's loans but it's not clear and of course I'm willing to be corrected/guided by anyone with closer knowledge (TBH would appreciate confirmation or otherwise). |
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Post by andyeastleake on Jun 6, 2021 22:24:08 GMT 1
I think he was trying to say that the club would be "debt free" to banks, other Lenders etc. So essentially he had control of this type of external borrowing. I don't think he meant to say DH would be paid off in full by 2022. TBF I'd suggest PH should be an experienced enough businessman to be much clearer with his phrasing. If he didn't mean "Debt Free" as most people would understand the phrase, he should really have been more specific. Wouldn't you agree? |
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Post by Ginger Ogre on Jun 7, 2021 12:00:02 GMT 1
A more detailed look at the accounts put together by the brilliant Swiss Ramble account on Twitter
A more concise snippet here
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Post by andyeastleake on Jun 7, 2021 12:20:35 GMT 1
A more detailed look at the accounts put together by the brilliant Swiss Ramble account on Twitter A more concise snippet here Thanks for that Pozza. That bloke sure spends some time on his analysis (note to others - much more detail on his twitter account). |
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Post by detox on Jun 7, 2021 12:49:45 GMT 1
#HTAFC average attendance (for games played with fans) dropped 6% from 23,203 to 21,748, so has fallen over 2,000 since 2018 Premier League peak. Still 9th highest in the Championship and also higher than 2017 promotion season. Season ticket prices frozen for 2019/20 campaign.
oddhow the stated capacity is quoted as 24,181 but we had several games with reported gates over that ? Man utd/liverpool 24,263..Man City 24,190.................
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 14:39:54 GMT 1
A more detailed look at the accounts put together by the brilliant Swiss Ramble account on Twitter A more concise snippet here Thanks for that Pozza. That bloke sure spends some time on his analysis (note to others - much more detail on his twitter account). Its interesting that despite the forensic (but rather pointless?) analysis, that he includes opinion such as the Paddy Power kit sponsorship being 'embarrassing'. No, it wasn't. It was challenging, disruptive, and divisive. Paddy Power got good value as a result. Town sold a load of shirts. Whats embarrassing about that?? |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jun 7, 2021 14:46:34 GMT 1
the current year's will I think be jaw dropping when they come out.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jun 7, 2021 17:21:41 GMT 1
Thanks for that Pozza. That bloke sure spends some time on his analysis (note to others - much more detail on his twitter account). Its interesting that despite the forensic (but rather pointless?) analysis, that he includes opinion such as the Paddy Power kit sponsorship being 'embarrassing'. No, it wasn't. It was challenging, disruptive, and divisive. Paddy Power got good value as a result. Town sold a load of shirts. Whats embarrassing about that?? It didn't fit the premier League template of smug self congratulation |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jun 7, 2021 17:23:06 GMT 1
Have I read somewhere that covid losses will not be a part of the ffp?
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Post by detox on Jun 15, 2021 14:17:32 GMT 1
To summarise these accounts then (somebody)..How much do we owe and who to, and how much of the debts did we pay off during the year, and who to ?
thanks
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Post by yappledapple on Jun 27, 2021 15:40:18 GMT 1
Was chatting to my mate last week who, in a previous job, worked for a local authority not too far away from here. He was one of the people involved in the BSF programme (Building School's for the Future) where the government of the day had embarked on a huge building infrastructure spend to update our old schools. For his Local Authority, the plan was to build 5 new secondary schools with a budget of £165M.
In today's modern transfer spend, that would get you 1 x Jack Grealish and about 80% of Jadon Sancho. 5 life-changing schools versus 1.8 footballers.
I know the Neymar transfer that broke the £100M barrier changed the transfer landscape completely, but transfer fees and the associated agent/player salaries have just got out of control and it's no wonder the big clubs are struggling with mountains of debt trying to keep up with paying these astronomical fees.
I get it's all relative as I remember the uproar when Trevor Francis became the first £1M player when Brian Clough took him to Forest, but surely it's just getting stupid now as the big clubs fight amongst themselves for the handful of world superstars and the knock-on effect is the lower league clubs are expected to pay £M for the most mediocre of players because that, unfortunately, is the market we are now in.
We all decried the ESL, but as these clubs are the teams in the biggest financial holes, it's no wonder they wanted to come up with a way of generating more income for themselves to enable them to keep forking out these massive fees and service their debts.
Will there ever be a reset or are we now on the ever-moving treadmill with no ability to get off! And Town are caught up on the same spiral as everyone else, as we try and keep our heads above water and ensure we put a competitive squad together and team on the pitch.
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Post by tockyterrier on Jun 28, 2021 18:24:23 GMT 1
Was chatting to my mate last week who, in a previous job, worked for a local authority not too far away from here. He was one of the people involved in the BSF programme (Building School's for the Future) where the government of the day had embarked on a huge building infrastructure spend to update our old schools. For his Local Authority, the plan was to build 5 new secondary schools with a budget of £165M. In today's modern transfer spend, that would get you 1 x Jack Grealish and about 80% of Jadon Sancho. 5 life-changing schools versus 1.8 footballers. I know the Neymar transfer that broke the £100M barrier changed the transfer landscape completely, but transfer fees and the associated agent/player salaries have just got out of control and it's no wonder the big clubs are struggling with mountains of debt trying to keep up with paying these astronomical fees. I get it's all relative as I remember the uproar when Trevor Francis became the first £1M player when Brian Clough took him to Forest, but surely it's just getting stupid now as the big clubs fight amongst themselves for the handful of world superstars and the knock-on effect is the lower league clubs are expected to pay £M for the most mediocre of players because that, unfortunately, is the market we are now in. We all decried the ESL, but as these clubs are the teams in the biggest financial holes, it's no wonder they wanted to come up with a way of generating more income for themselves to enable them to keep forking out these massive fees and service their debts. Will there ever be a reset or are we now on the ever-moving treadmill with no ability to get off! And Town are caught up on the same spiral as everyone else, as we try and keep our heads above water and ensure we put a competitive squad together and team on the pitch. There has to be a reset or escalation of prices eventually, because the TV income cannot keep increasing forever. There are only so many people willing to pay and so many of them able to pay. The alternative to earning more money to pay larger fees and track up bigger debts vis the ESL is to stop spending what they cant afford. |
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Post by yappledapple on Jul 9, 2021 8:48:42 GMT 1
Interesting paper abstract from Kieran Maguire regarding the impact of Covid on football finances...
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jarjar
Kwami Hodouto Terrier
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Post by jarjar on Jul 9, 2021 15:32:14 GMT 1
Quick piece on Premier League finances using Huddersfield as the example case.
Here's the main image from the article.
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Post by Teddington Ted on Jul 9, 2021 16:28:29 GMT 1
Quick piece on Premier League finances using Huddersfield as the example case.
Here's the main image from the article.
Interesting but again people collate an increase in wages in our promotion seasons as us taking a gamble and it (luckily) coming off, rather than appreciating that a large part of the increase is the bonuses paid on achieving promotion. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 1, 2021 15:24:35 GMT 1
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Post by detox on Sept 1, 2021 16:31:16 GMT 1
What's the implications of that exactly |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 1, 2021 16:39:02 GMT 1
What's the implications of that exactly Not sure exactly but I'm guessing that they'll have to respond and file their overdue accounts or face being struck off/dissolved. |
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Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Sept 1, 2021 17:13:52 GMT 1
Assuming the company is still trading, someone seems VERY keen to avoid the details of the finance involved in Hodgkinson’s purchase of the Town shares appearing in the public domain for as long as possible…
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Post by detox on Sept 1, 2021 17:58:58 GMT 1
What's the implications of that exactly Not sure exactly but I'm guessing that they'll have to respond and file their overdue accounts or face being struck off/dissolved. Maybe the NDA is the problem, expect Phil will have to check with Dean first? |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 1, 2021 18:32:03 GMT 1
What's the implications of that exactly Not sure exactly but I'm guessing that they'll have to respond and file their overdue accounts or face being struck off/dissolved. May well be a dormant company that hasn't filed accounts on time or may be fat Phil has embezzled 200 million pounds off him self and funnelled it all to Dean 😁 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 18:52:31 GMT 1
It does not appear accounts are due. Confirmation Statement is overdue. Not a big deal, just submit when ready. Gazette publication date only listed. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 1, 2021 19:24:37 GMT 1
It does not appear accounts are due. Confirmation Statement is overdue. Not a big deal, just submit when ready. Gazette publication date only listed. The accounts for the year ended June 2020 haven't been filed yet so are overdue. find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09680325If you look up Town on Companies House, this is the company that is listed as being the club's owner and Phil said previously that we would be able to see how much he'd paid for the club once the next set of accounts (June 2020) were filed. |
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