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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 1, 2021 20:27:45 GMT 1
For anyone who hasn’t seen there are a couple of interesting points from SMJ on the “Price of Football” thread regarding a missing £1M from the clubs coffers, to think, what 10 years ago, the idea of us spending a £1M on a player was far fetched, now we write it off like it’s shrapnel in your change ! No choice writing it off If it can't be recovered it's gone! But it was sponsorship so no real cost other than the chance to make a much smaller amount from a different sponsor Real cost nil ish |
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Post by I have a box full of hats on Sept 17, 2021 9:24:12 GMT 1
£5m to buy 75% football club (plus, of course, the cost of debt) Companies House
Also, and perhaps more interestingly, the average emissions per travelling employee for the year was 2,264.9 kgCO2e |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 9:27:03 GMT 1
£5m to buy 75% football club (plus, of course, the cost of debt) Companies House
Also, and perhaps more interestingly, the average emissions per travelling employee for the year was 2,264.9 kgCO2e The link is dodgy. |
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Post by I have a box full of hats on Sept 17, 2021 9:55:47 GMT 1
£5m to buy 75% football club (plus, of course, the cost of debt) Companies House
Also, and perhaps more interestingly, the average emissions per travelling employee for the year was 2,264.9 kgCO2e The link is dodgy. Ah - you'll need to search for it yourself herePure Sports Consultancy Limited |
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King Curtis
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Post by King Curtis on Sept 17, 2021 10:34:07 GMT 1
Note 27.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 17, 2021 13:06:43 GMT 1
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bigtruck
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Post by bigtruck on Sept 17, 2021 13:16:52 GMT 1
Being pedantic I know but does that show he’s actually only given DH £2.5m ish. The other 2.5 is deferred? |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 17, 2021 13:24:19 GMT 1
Being pedantic I know but does that show he’s actually only given DH £2.5m ish. The other 2.5 is deferred? That would appear to be the case "Definition of deferred consideration: An element of a purchase price which is only settled in cash at much later date than the transaction." |
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Post by Drew Peacock on Sept 17, 2021 13:24:36 GMT 1
Being pedantic I know but does that show he’s actually only given DH £2.5m ish. The other 2.5 is deferred? Is that factored into the loan repayment? I've no idea on these things so hoping somebody can clarify. The repayment schedule is £34m however note 26 says the balance is £29.3m plus £1.9m notional interest? That would only be £31.2m |
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Post by York Terrier on Sept 17, 2021 17:06:04 GMT 1
Is our club only really worth £6.2m ? The debt to Dean is funded from Season Tickets ,Transfer Monies and the clubs remaining income. The normal rule of thumb for a business that is profitable is 5 times EBIT so if Phil can turn the club around into a club that makes even £2m per year he could double his money.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 17, 2021 17:14:53 GMT 1
Is our club only really worth £6.2m ? The debt to Dean is funded from Season Tickets ,Transfer Monies and the clubs remaining income. The normal rule of thumb for a business that is profitable is 5 times EBIT so if Phil can turn the club around into a club that makes even £2m per year he could double his money. If he can make 2 million a year over a sustained period he deserves to double his money It won't happen |
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Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Sept 17, 2021 17:24:36 GMT 1
Being pedantic I know but does that show he’s actually only given DH £2.5m ish. The other 2.5 is deferred? Is that factored into the loan repayment? I've no idea on these things so hoping somebody can clarify. The repayment schedule is £34m however note 26 says the balance is £29.3m plus £1.9m notional interest? That would only be £31.2m The deferment is unlikely to be linked to the loan repayment as they are technically owed by different entities. More likely Hutchinson only had £2.5m available and Hoyle agreed he could wait for the rest. The notional interest/fair value is an accountancy thing - the club owes the full £34m in reality. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2021 20:06:31 GMT 1
Is that factored into the loan repayment? I've no idea on these things so hoping somebody can clarify. The repayment schedule is £34m however note 26 says the balance is £29.3m plus £1.9m notional interest? That would only be £31.2m The deferment is unlikely to be linked to the loan repayment as they are technically owed by different entities. More likely Hutchinson only had £2.5m available and Hoyle agreed he could wait for the rest. The notional interest/fair value is an accountancy thing - the club owes the full £34m in reality. Good post but who's Hutchinson? |
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Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Sept 17, 2021 21:19:46 GMT 1
The deferment is unlikely to be linked to the loan repayment as they are technically owed by different entities. More likely Hutchinson only had £2.5m available and Hoyle agreed he could wait for the rest. The notional interest/fair value is an accountancy thing - the club owes the full £34m in reality. Good post but who's Hutchinson? Doh. Hodgkinson obviously. Sorry |
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Post by detox on Sept 18, 2021 8:00:11 GMT 1
so by me reckoning then, DH will receive £81m in total ?
£31m short term loan
£35m long term debts partly repaid
£10m " deferred
£2.5m for 75% shares
£2.5m " deferred
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 9:21:31 GMT 1
so by me reckoning then, DH will receive £81m in total ? £31m short term loan £35m long term debts partly repaid £10m " deferred £2.5m for 75% shares £2.5m " deferred Actually, whatever you are trying to work out there is pretty crap. Your consideration should be something along these lines to work out something meaningful, like money made. £31m short term loan (irrelevant, bank loan) +£35m long term debts partly repaid +£10m " deferred (dependent upon result) +£2.5m for 75% shares +£2.5m " deferred +£1.25m for 25% shares -£45m for total loans to club -£2m for purchase from KD (guesstimate) -£2m for ground shares -£1.9m for lost interest on 76m -£1m for 10 year lost income (100k per year) -£200,000 lost interest on 4m invested -£50,000 personal legal & accountancy fees on buying from KD (guesstimate) So keeping Canalside out of the consideration he makes £400,000. Now look at the balance sheet when DH bought from KD and the balance sheet when DH sold to PH to find how much value DH added to the club and sold to PH for a £400.000 profit (assuming a football club is not valued from trading profits). So what value of assets has DH tranfered to PH for £400,000 profit to enable PH to do asset stripping from? Now let's consider Canalside. DH has a balance of +£400.000 How much did DH pay for the ICI club? How much has DH invested (personally not the club) in Canalside? How much income has DH drawn from Canalside? How much interest has DH lost on ICI price? Would someone better informed than me like to add numbers to the 4 questions above (and improve on my guesstimates etc.) so we can start to get a realistic perspective of what DH has made as a profit/loss over 10+ years as custodian of HTAFC? And before being impressed with how much profit DH has theoretically made so far, £400.000, let's bring it back to reality and say we do not know what the deferred 10m result is dependent upon. If it's promotion to the Premier League again it might never happen so that's: +£400,000 balance -£10,000,000 potentially never received Loss £9.6m However, if/when PH does asset stripping then surely the NDA will have them share out all the juicy profit between them! Edited: For Bank loan, Frankiesleftpeg. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 18, 2021 9:48:06 GMT 1
so by me reckoning then, DH will receive £81m in total ? £31m short term loan £35m long term debts partly repaid £10m " deferred £2.5m for 75% shares £2.5m " deferred The £31m loan is a bank loan. |
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Post by impact on Sept 18, 2021 19:43:26 GMT 1
Is our club only really worth £6.2m ? The debt to Dean is funded from Season Tickets ,Transfer Monies and the clubs remaining income. The normal rule of thumb for a business that is profitable is 5 times EBIT so if Phil can turn the club around into a club that makes even £2m per year he could double his money. I think the accounts say it's actually worth around -10m going by the accounts as there's 15m goodwill in there (my understanding being purchase price = company value + goodwill). Which doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense. |
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King Curtis
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Post by King Curtis on Sept 18, 2021 19:52:25 GMT 1
For those that cannot read accounts:
£34m loan repayable to DH
£31m loan repayable to the bank.
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Post by tockyterrier on Sept 21, 2021 13:20:11 GMT 1
With all the doom and gloom re gas prices. Let's hope Utilita isnt one of those suppliers that disappears.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 21, 2021 13:40:42 GMT 1
so by me reckoning then, DH will receive £81m in total ? £31m short term loan £35m long term debts partly repaid £10m " deferred £2.5m for 75% shares £2.5m " deferred Actually, whatever you are trying to work out there is pretty crap. Your consideration should be something along these lines to work out something meaningful, like money made. £31m short term loan (irrelevant, bank loan) +£35m long term debts partly repaid +£10m " deferred (dependent upon result) +£2.5m for 75% shares +£2.5m " deferred +£1.25m for 25% shares -£45m for total loans to club -£2m for purchase from KD (guesstimate) -£2m for ground shares -£1.9m for lost interest on 76m -£1m for 10 year lost income (100k per year) -£200,000 lost interest on 4m invested -£50,000 personal legal & accountancy fees on buying from KD (guesstimate) So keeping Canalside out of the consideration he makes £400,000. Now look at the balance sheet when DH bought from KD and the balance sheet when DH sold to PH to find how much value DH added to the club and sold to PH for a £400.000 profit (assuming a football club is not valued from trading profits). So what value of assets has DH tranfered to PH for £400,000 profit to enable PH to do asset stripping from? Now let's consider Canalside. DH has a balance of +£400.000 How much did DH pay for the ICI club? How much has DH invested (personally not the club) in Canalside? How much income has DH drawn from Canalside? How much interest has DH lost on ICI price? Would someone better informed than me like to add numbers to the 4 questions above (and improve on my guesstimates etc.) so we can start to get a realistic perspective of what DH has made as a profit/loss over 10+ years as custodian of HTAFC? And before being impressed with how much profit DH has theoretically made so far, £400.000, let's bring it back to reality and say we do not know what the deferred 10m result is dependent upon. If it's promotion to the Premier League again it might never happen so that's: +£400,000 balance -£10,000,000 potentially never received Loss £9.6m However, if/when PH does asset stripping then surely the NDA will have them share out all the juicy profit between them! Edited: For Bank loan, Frankiesleftpeg. A bit of a bug bear with me, but i agree which assets is going to strip? I think some people hear a word and recycle it based on .......... Social media? |
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Post by crux on Nov 2, 2021 21:17:55 GMT 1
Does today Pure Business Group News have any impact on the club? What news? |
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Post by sandgrounder on Nov 2, 2021 21:18:35 GMT 1
Does today Pure Business Group News have any impact on the club? What news? Gone into Administration and all staff made redundant |
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Post by leroy212 on Nov 2, 2021 22:02:31 GMT 1
Seen nothing about it in administration
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Post by barryfromkent on Nov 2, 2021 22:06:07 GMT 1
Seen it all over LinkedIn that the group has gone under. By the looks of things staff were only told late today. Curious to understand the impact of this on the club. Also, feel sorry for everyone that’s gone home now without a job to go to tomorrow.
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jan 20, 2022 14:12:52 GMT 1
Being a good little poster  I thought I’d ask this question here rather than in the “Announcement” thread, save the admins having a hissy fit. If Dean is making a noise about having to put in a couple of million to cover for Octobers wages, has he also helped out with November and December? Or did that couple of million make up any shortfall over a number of months? |
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Post by incognito on Jan 20, 2022 14:41:28 GMT 1
Being a good little poster I thought I’d ask this question here rather than in the “Announcement” thread, save the admins having a hissy fit. If Dean is making a noise about having to put in a couple of million to cover for Octobers wages, has he also helped out with November and December? Or did that couple of million make up any shortfall over a number of months? I suspect our wage bill this season will be around the £12 million mark (The recent Athletic article with Carlos mentions we've reduced it by more than a third from last year's £19m) - so, roughly speaking, a 'couple' of million should cover a 'couple' of months. |
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Post by detox on Jan 21, 2022 13:13:56 GMT 1
Being a good little poster  I thought I’d ask this question here rather than in the “Announcement” thread, save the admins having a hissy fit. If Dean is making a noise about having to put in a couple of million to cover for Octobers wages, has he also helped out with November and December? Or did that couple of million make up any shortfall over a number of months? I think he also mentioned that £2m included paying some bills/debts off.. The wage bill is around £1m a month (as said above) |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 21, 2022 14:55:21 GMT 1
Being a good little poster I thought I’d ask this question here rather than in the “Announcement” thread, save the admins having a hissy fit. If Dean is making a noise about having to put in a couple of million to cover for Octobers wages, has he also helped out with November and December? Or did that couple of million make up any shortfall over a number of months? I think he also mentioned that £2m included paying some bills/debts off.. The wage bill is around £1m a month (as said above) I think i might make a bit of noise too, particularly when he is being demonised on social media. |
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Feb 16, 2022 22:20:36 GMT 1
Read an artice from the Bristol City owner stating he fears they are in breach of FFP and believes another seven championship clubs are in trouble of falling foul.
Hopefully the way our transfer outs, these last three years, were structured in a way that allows us to stay on the right line if the FFP rules.
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