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Post by kennyk2 on Jan 17, 2020 9:57:56 GMT 1
I'm a little confused having read the eight pages of this thread. More time I'll never get back. Where has it been said that Dean will get, or has got his money back from the parachute payments, or is this just an assumption? Was this at a Q&A, was it in the AHTTC podcast, or has it been in the press. The only place I've seen it is on here. DH say that the money he'd invested was a loan but that he never expected to get it back?
There was a post relating a conversation from someone from the club saying that the parachute payments would keep this club going for 10 years. Perhaps we are not swinging our dick about in public, a la MASSIVE, a la Derby. We may be just keeping very quiet about how much we have to spend. I certainly think that there is some obfuscation in this regard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 11:56:54 GMT 1
I know hindsight is wonderful, but having won promotion we should have signed nobody and gone straight back down having trousered £100 million. Wrong. £285 million including parachute payments is still the better outcome. More money to repay DH some of his loan. None of us know yet what % of the £49m debt is to be repaid, or the period over which the repayments will take place. |
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COWSHEDPHIL
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Jan 17, 2020 12:09:39 GMT 1
I'm a little confused having read the eight pages of this thread. More time I'll never get back. Where has it been said that Dean will get, or has got his money back from the parachute payments, or is this just an assumption? Was this at a Q&A, was it in the AHTTC podcast, or has it been in the press. The only place I've seen it is on here. DH say that the money he'd invested was a loan but that he never expected to get it back? There was a post relating a conversation from someone from the club saying that the parachute payments would keep this club going for 10 years. Perhaps we are not swinging our dick about in public, a la MASSIVE, a la Derby. We may be just keeping very quiet about how much we have to spend. I certainly think that there is some obfuscation in this regard. It was in the PH podcast in August. He said Dean was getting his loan back. Can't remember if he mentioned 50 million quid, and I'm not sure where the 50 million figure has come from but most fans seem to think it's 50 million over the years. |
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Post by detox on Jan 17, 2020 12:09:41 GMT 1
I know hindsight is wonderful, but having won promotion we should have signed nobody and gone straight back down having trousered £100 million. Wrong. £285 million including parachute payments is still the better outcome. More money to repay DH some of his loan. None of us know yet what % of the £49m debt is to be repaid, or the period over which the repayments will take place. I thought he wanted 75% of the debt repaid over 3 years...unless I misunderstood...? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 12:20:11 GMT 1
Wrong. £285 million including parachute payments is still the better outcome. More money to repay DH some of his loan. None of us know yet what % of the £49m debt is to be repaid, or the period over which the repayments will take place. I thought he wanted 75% of the debt repaid over 3 years...unless I misunderstood...? That's new info to me, where does it come from? |
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Post by kennyk2 on Jan 17, 2020 12:31:45 GMT 1
I'm a little confused having read the eight pages of this thread. More time I'll never get back. Where has it been said that Dean will get, or has got his money back from the parachute payments, or is this just an assumption? Was this at a Q&A, was it in the AHTTC podcast, or has it been in the press. The only place I've seen it is on here. DH say that the money he'd invested was a loan but that he never expected to get it back? There was a post relating a conversation from someone from the club saying that the parachute payments would keep this club going for 10 years. Perhaps we are not swinging our dick about in public, a la MASSIVE, a la Derby. We may be just keeping very quiet about how much we have to spend. I certainly think that there is some obfuscation in this regard. It was in the PH podcast in August. He said Dean was getting his loan back. Can't remember if he mentioned 50 million quid, and I'm not sure where the 50 million figure has come from but most fans seem to think it's 50 million over the years. Fine, I may go back and listen again. |
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Post by I have a box full of hats on Jan 17, 2020 13:00:06 GMT 1
I'm a little confused having read the eight pages of this thread. More time I'll never get back. Where has it been said that Dean will get, or has got his money back from the parachute payments, or is this just an assumption? Was this at a Q&A, was it in the AHTTC podcast, or has it been in the press. The only place I've seen it is on here. DH say that the money he'd invested was a loan but that he never expected to get it back? There was a post relating a conversation from someone from the club saying that the parachute payments would keep this club going for 10 years. Perhaps we are not swinging our dick about in public, a la MASSIVE, a la Derby. We may be just keeping very quiet about how much we have to spend. I certainly think that there is some obfuscation in this regard. It was in the PH podcast in August. He said Dean was getting his loan back. Can't remember if he mentioned 50 million quid, and I'm not sure where the 50 million figure has come from but most fans seem to think it's 50 million over the years. £50m (£49,984,949!) is quoted in the accounts for the 17/18 season. This is a reduction of £3m on the previous season. Some key numbers from the accounts...... (brackets are 16/17 figures) Turnover - £125m (compared to £16m in 16/17) Matchday - £5m (£4m) TV/League - £110m (£7m)
Comms - £7m (£2m)
Retail - £2m (£1m)
Promotion bonus - £12m (£0)
Salaries - £63m (£22m) Tax - £4m *players transfer cost is confusing and will need someone with more accounting knowledge than me to decipher*Profit the season was £25m (compared to a loss of £18m in 16/17). |
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Post by royrace on Jan 17, 2020 13:49:11 GMT 1
I'm a little confused having read the eight pages of this thread. More time I'll never get back. Where has it been said that Dean will get, or has got his money back from the parachute payments, or is this just an assumption? Was this at a Q&A, was it in the AHTTC podcast, or has it been in the press. The only place I've seen it is on here. DH say that the money he'd invested was a loan but that he never expected to get it back? There was a post relating a conversation from someone from the club saying that the parachute payments would keep this club going for 10 years. Perhaps we are not swinging our dick about in public, a la MASSIVE, a la Derby. We may be just keeping very quiet about how much we have to spend. I certainly think that there is some obfuscation in this regard. It was in the PH podcast in August. He said Dean was getting his loan back. Can't remember if he mentioned 50 million quid, and I'm not sure where the 50 million figure has come from but most fans seem to think it's 50 million over the years. I seem to remember it was pretty much confirmed in the podcast and its surely the only plausible explanation as to why we are so skint after 2 years in the PL and being very conservative. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Jan 17, 2020 14:15:08 GMT 1
Does anyone have a link to the podcast?
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jan 17, 2020 14:28:33 GMT 1
Does anyone have a link to the podcast? (Roughly 30 mins in is when the purchase of the club is discussed) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 14:53:51 GMT 1
Loss for 16/17 was £21.9m.
Profit for 17/18 was £23.2m.
Loans outstanding to DH at 30/6/18 were £49m.
All from HTAFC Ltd accounts at Companies House.
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wigster
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Post by wigster on Jan 17, 2020 16:57:23 GMT 1
Does anyone have a link to the podcast? (Roughly 30 mins in is when the purchase of the club is discussed) Basically it says that the "price" of the club that PH bought is covered by an NDA but part of the agreement is that Dean Hoyle gets "a big chunk of his loans back in 2/3 years". Additionally we do not own the stadium OR the training ground (we lease it from DH) but the intention is that we buy the training ground off Dean Hoyle in the next ten years. Again, no idea given of what we'll be paying out. PH stressed that the legacy of 2 years in the Premier league is that we will eventually become "a debt free club". He did NOT say how much, if anything, he paid for our club and how much will be going to Dean Hoyle in the next 10 years (he used the term "signIficant" a bit later). So we can never expect to know the details of how PH bought the club, whether it cost him or where the money came from for him to buy it and how much Dean Hoyle will be getting in the future. All a bit frustrating for supporters but very understandable (it's normal business practice apparently).It would perhaps be naive to expect much more. What one thinks - ranging from it's a sensible business arrangement by two passionate Town supporters to help our club to it's a stitch up where two wealthy business men get what they want - depends on your point of view I suppose. PH earlier stressed that he will never make any money by owning the club. What does seem clear is that two years in the promised land of the Premier league does not seem to have created anywhere near the legacy that I had, possibly stupidly, hoped for. |
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Post by royrace on Jan 17, 2020 17:07:47 GMT 1
Here.(Roughly 30 mins in is when the purchase of the club is discussed) Basically it says that the "price" of the club that PH bought is covered by an NDA but part of the agreement is that Dean Hoyle gets "a big chunk of his loans back in 2/3 years". Additionally we do not own the stadium OR the training ground (we lease it from DH) but the intention is that we buy the training ground off Dean Hoyle in the next ten years. Again, no idea given of what we'll be paying out. PH stressed that the legacy of 2 years in the Premier league is that we will eventually become "a debt free club". He did NOT say how much, if anything, he paid for our club and how much will be going to Dean Hoyle in the next 10 years (he used the term "signIficant" a bit later). So we can never expect to know the details of how PH bought the club, whether it cost him or where the money came from for him to buy it and how much Dean Hoyle will be getting in the future. All a bit frustrating for supporters but very understandable (it's normal business practice apparently).It would be naive to expect actual figures. What one thinks - ranging from it's a sensible business arrangement by two passionate Town supporters to help our club to it's a stitch up where two wealthy business men get what they want - depends on your point of view I suppose. PH earlier stressed that he will never make any money by owning the club. What does seem clear is that two years in the promised land of the Premier league does not seem to have created anywhere near the legacy that I had, possibly stupidly, hoped for. I think its both of the above and I suspect Phil wont have paid anything for the club, I'm guessing, know nowt but reading between the lines that's nice for both, Dean exits, gets £50M and hands over to a bloke he knows and trusts, Phil gets a club he could never afford under normal circumstances for free. Broad as it is long, but the parachute money basically pays for the deal to be done. I guess that could be construed as Phil using the parachute money to buy the club. We're £50M down basically which when you look at our budget is a big chunk. Its also clear they considered the likes of Diakhaby, Mbenza and Kongolo as valuable assets up until recently so I guess that may impact further although hopefully we will still get some money out of Kongolo. The other two are a total write off however and a 2 year further liability. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 17, 2020 18:06:28 GMT 1
I know hindsight is wonderful, but having won promotion we should have signed nobody and gone straight back down having trousered £100 million. Wrong. £285 million including parachute payments is still the better outcome. More money to repay DH some of his loan. None of us know yet what % of the £49m debt is to be repaid, or the period over which the repayments will take place. We are fans not financiers, if you put some money to the shares then you have a right to know otherwise stfu Put up or shut up |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jan 17, 2020 19:40:37 GMT 1
So basically the parachute payments are repaying Dean's loan. Thought we'd been told by folk on here that their sole purpose is to fund existing contracts? Statements about the club being on a sound financial footing should we be relegated seem a little hollow now.
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Maynardblue
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Post by Maynardblue on Jan 17, 2020 20:29:48 GMT 1
The club was repaying Deans loan irrespective of PHs takeover. Even if DH hadn't sold he'd be getting his money.
Also PH paid a hefty sum for the 75% and used his OWN money.
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Post by Manx Terrier on Jan 17, 2020 20:30:39 GMT 1
If parachute payments have or will be used to repay the loan to Dean then how can this be ? My searches say they are intended to assist clubs to survive and compete while having reduced income - principally from TV.
Have I got the wrong end of the stick and it is ok to use parachute money to pay off an interest free debt ?
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Maynardblue
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Post by Maynardblue on Jan 17, 2020 21:16:08 GMT 1
If parachute payments have or will be used to repay the loan to Dean then how can this be ? My searches say they are intended to assist clubs to survive and compete while having reduced income - principally from TV. Have I got the wrong end of the stick and it is ok to use parachute money to pay off an interest free debt ? The Parachute money is intended to help clubs meet their financial obligations on relegation. Once a director calls in a loan it becomes one of those obligations. |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Jan 17, 2020 21:22:49 GMT 1
If parachute payments have or will be used to repay the loan to Dean then how can this be ? My searches say they are intended to assist clubs to survive and compete while having reduced income - principally from TV. Have I got the wrong end of the stick and it is ok to use parachute money to pay off an interest free debt ? That’s what they’re intended for but presumably it’s the clubs to decide what they need to do best. I’d argue we took more precautions than most when coming down. Everyone took relegation reductions for instance. Not something a lot of clubs have done in the past. E.g Jack Rodwell. Also we have arguably shed more players than we expected. Aside from the obvious ones, Lossl, LDP, Zanka etc, Billing and Smith are examples of money we wouldn’t necessarily have expected. We now have Kongolo off the wage bill as well as Mooy I’d like to think that come Summer we’ll have a few quid to spend as it certainly seems like we’ve slashed the squad and it’s just these final 2 wasters we need to get out whilst also hopefully collecting sizeable transfer fees for Mooy and Kongolo |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Jan 17, 2020 21:25:04 GMT 1
The club was repaying Deans loan irrespective of PHs takeover. Even if DH hadn't sold he'd be getting his money. Also PH paid a hefty sum for the 75% and used his OWN money. Does this hefty sum deductible from the ~£50m (as I understand) we owe DH? I.e will DH come out of this with a sizeable profit once the loan is repaid? |
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Maynardblue
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Post by Maynardblue on Jan 17, 2020 21:27:22 GMT 1
Payment for shares (cost to PH) and repayment of a loan (cost to htafc) are 2 totally separate things
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jan 17, 2020 21:27:37 GMT 1
Most Town fans don’t begrudge DH getting his loans back. What is slightly more difficult to accept is the rate at which he’s supposedly being repaid, to the extent that, from the outside, it looks like it has hamstrung the club. Maybe I’m wrong? Maybe it’s part of a bigger 2-3 year plan? This season’s struggles suggest it’s a dangerous tactic.
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Post by htfcfcfc on Jan 17, 2020 21:32:33 GMT 1
Payment for shares (cost to PH) and repayment of a loan (cost to htafc) are 2 totally separate things I get that and you probably can’t say but if this is the case and there is a sizeable fee going to DH for the 75% of the club, plus things that he owns such as Canalside and potentially full payment of the loan..... |
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 17, 2020 21:51:58 GMT 1
The club was repaying Deans loan irrespective of PHs takeover. Even if DH hadn't sold he'd be getting his money. Also PH paid a hefty sum for the 75% and used his OWN money. Seems to me he picked PH cos he knew his heart would rule his head and he wouldn’t say no. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jan 17, 2020 22:03:17 GMT 1
The more that comes out, the more it appears that Dean has done very well out of it all
Gets all his money back
Gets a decent sum from PH for 75%
Still owns 25%
Owns Canalside and makes decent money leasing it to Town
I still think there's a twist to come in all this...I hope.
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Post by htfcfcfc on Jan 17, 2020 22:08:36 GMT 1
The more than comes out, the more it appears that Dean has done very well out of it all Gets all his money back Gets a decent sum from PH for 75% Still owns 25% Owns Canalside and makes decent money leasing it to Town I still think there's a twist to come in all this...I hope. I agree and hope also. I refuse to believe after all of this that DH would put us back to where started from. There’s a good reason for all of this that I look forward to discovering what it is which might take a couple of seasons to Play out |
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Post by sapphireblue on Jan 17, 2020 22:28:14 GMT 1
Lesson 1 Junior.
Millionaires are all c**ts.
That's how they become millionaires.
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Post by Manx Terrier on Jan 17, 2020 23:16:42 GMT 1
If parachute payments have or will be used to repay the loan to Dean then how can this be ? My searches say they are intended to assist clubs to survive and compete while having reduced income - principally from TV. Have I got the wrong end of the stick and it is ok to use parachute money to pay off an interest free debt ? The Parachute money is intended to help clubs meet their financial obligations on relegation. Once a director calls in a loan it becomes one of those obligations. Well from what I have read the purpose of parachute payments is "to ensure the club can cope with the reduced income from not being part of the Premier League – especially given that many of the players remaining at the club will still be under contract on so-called Premier League wages." Nothing to say it is for all financial obligations. Where did you read this ? |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Jan 17, 2020 23:18:25 GMT 1
The Parachute money is intended to help clubs meet their financial obligations on relegation. Once a director calls in a loan it becomes one of those obligations. Well from what I have read the purpose of parachute payments is "to ensure the club can cope with the reduced income from not being part of the Premier League – especially given that many of the players remaining at the club will still be under contract on so-called Premier League wages." Nothing to say it is for all financial obligations. Where did you read this ? Are you being serious? |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 17, 2020 23:53:36 GMT 1
It was in the PH podcast in August. He said Dean was getting his loan back. Can't remember if he mentioned 50 million quid, and I'm not sure where the 50 million figure has come from but most fans seem to think it's 50 million over the years. £50m (£49,984,949!) is quoted in the accounts for the 17/18 season. This is a reduction of £3m on the previous season. Some key numbers from the accounts...... (brackets are 16/17 figures) Turnover - £125m (compared to £16m in 16/17) Matchday - £5m (£4m) TV/League - £110m (£7m)
Comms - £7m (£2m)
Retail - £2m (£1m)
Promotion bonus - £12m (£0)
Salaries - £63m (£22m) Tax - £4m *players transfer cost is confusing and will need someone with more accounting knowledge than me to decipher*Profit the season was £25m (compared to a loss of £18m in 16/17). Salary figure for 16/17 wtong i tbink. Im sure the salady was £10m and the promotion bonus was £12. Thus is why we made a loss if £18m when it had previously been around the £5m / yr mark. But obviously this bonus was factored in to the knowledge wed be guarranteed £100m plus parachute. |
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