iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by iangreaves on Jul 21, 2020 8:10:39 GMT 1
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Post by mids on Jul 21, 2020 8:12:56 GMT 1
That's better for us - now we're safe
Not good for those clubs affected, but it shouldn't really still all be up in the air 36 hours before the final round of fixtures
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 21, 2020 8:26:12 GMT 1
Hopefully we can all delay punishments in the future to when it's more convenient for us??
Utterly pointless it seems to make these rules when it takes forever to make a decision and then to defer the implementation??
Football becomes less important to me on a daily basis, they are killing it themselves...
The wages, the silly following of political movements and silly 'respect' badges that mean zero to the actual participants wearing them mean integrity is now at such a premium it's hard to find.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 8:29:00 GMT 1
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 21, 2020 8:32:24 GMT 1
I think a few sides will have points deductions next year
As long as Town steer clear of admin the safety line will be 40 points
Hopefully we’re looking upwards of that though
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jul 21, 2020 8:36:43 GMT 1
That statement clears up absolutely nothing. Well played, EFL.
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by iangreaves on Jul 21, 2020 8:37:17 GMT 1
Given the length of time the Wednesday case is taking, it could be two seasons before the tribunal decides Wigan's appeal.
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Post by hypotenuse on Jul 21, 2020 8:41:15 GMT 1
That is true and was always going to be the case. However, Wigan have appealed (on the most ridiculous and spurious grounds) and two weeks will not be enough to hear the appeal. It’s probably better for us but is actually disgraceful for the game (as galpharm 2400 makes clear above). I genuinely feel for clubs like Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Boro and even Brum who took an immediate 9 point deduction in the middle of last season.
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Post by 66738 on Jul 21, 2020 8:43:20 GMT 1
Wigan, yes the penalty has to be implemented this season. The guidelines are clear. No argument. Wednesday is different. As much as I dislike the Massive, it would be very unfair to impose a sanction of points deducted now, this season. They would have played the last 9 games differently if they knew they had a certain target to achieve to avoid relegation. Then there is the amount of time it would take to deal with the appeal. It would mean literally weeks, even days away from the new season commencing, Wednesday and not to mention whoever takes the third relegation spot out of Hull, Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Middlesbrough or Birmingham, Would still be no wiser to which league they had to plan for. Totally unacceptable. No, if Sheffield Wednesday gets punished by points deduction, It has to be implemented next season for fairness to Wednesday and any other team that would be involved.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jul 21, 2020 8:43:28 GMT 1
So does that mean Wigan start next season on -12, or will it be deducted from this seasons total?
It does make a mockery of things, even allowing for due process, but the timing has a massive impact on incentivising clubs & therefore having an impact on final standings.
I remember the time Leeds played the EFL to the point it was very late in the season. It was pretty obvious it was deliberate and intended to unsettle the competition.
Maybe if clubs remembered that at the heart of the competition it is still referred to as a sport.
Money has a lot to answer for in English football...
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jul 21, 2020 8:47:17 GMT 1
That is true and was always going to be the case. However, Wigan have appealed (on the most ridiculous and spurious grounds) and two weeks will not be enough to hear the appeal. It’s probably better for us but is actually disgraceful for the game (as galpharm 2400 makes clear above). I genuinely feel for clubs like Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Boro and even Brum who took an immediate 9 point deduction in the middle of last season. When you say spurious, is it actually a legal angle they can pursue? Most disputes have to be set against fairly strict legal criteria, otherwise the courts would be swamped. If it really is spurious this is just another own goal by the EFL. Makes you wonder if this could be a watershed moment for them as an organisation? The start of the old boys club coming apart...
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Post by 66738 on Jul 21, 2020 8:50:08 GMT 1
So does that mean Wigan start next season on -12, or will it be deducted from this seasons total? It does make a mockery of things, even allowing for due process, but the timing has a massive impact on incentivising clubs & therefore having an impact on final standings. I remember the time Leeds played the EFL to the point it was very late in the season. It was pretty obvious it was deliberate and intended to unsettle the competition. Maybe if clubs remembered that at the heart of the competition it is still referred to as a sport. Money has a lot to answer for in English football... Deducted from this season. If they finished in the relegation places without the sanction being imposed yet, then they would go down and next season start in the league below with -12. If they avoid relegation this season even with the -12 added on, then that’s it. Punishment handed down and duly served. No further action.
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rocky
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by rocky on Jul 21, 2020 8:52:23 GMT 1
And then there's the inevitable legal challenges that will be lodged by the clubs that are relegated in place of Wigan and Wednesday.
If this is true, then Hull are down already, plus 2 from Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Birmingham, Middlesbrough and even Town theoretically.
Chaos. If you've got rules, then just apply them!
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Post by 66738 on Jul 21, 2020 9:00:51 GMT 1
And then there's the inevitable legal challenges that will be lodged by the clubs that are relegated in place of Wigan and Wednesday. If this is true, then Hull are down already, plus 2 from Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Birmingham, Middlesbrough and even Town theoretically. Chaos. If you've got rules, then just apply them! With Wigan, if they survive even with the -12, no other club could argue could they? The got served their penalty and they did enough anyway to stay up. With Wednesday, the EFL will fudge it and delay serving the penalty for a while, probably August or September, saying they have only just come to the decision. These things can’t be rushed etc etc blah blah blah. It will be a farce.
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jul 21, 2020 9:01:29 GMT 1
So does that mean Wigan start next season on -12, or will it be deducted from this seasons total? It does make a mockery of things, even allowing for due process, but the timing has a massive impact on incentivising clubs & therefore having an impact on final standings. I remember the time Leeds played the EFL to the point it was very late in the season. It was pretty obvious it was deliberate and intended to unsettle the competition. Maybe if clubs remembered that at the heart of the competition it is still referred to as a sport. Money has a lot to answer for in English football... Deducted from this season. If they finished in the relegation places without the sanction being imposed yet, then they would go down and next season start in the league below with -12. If they avoid relegation this season even with the -12 added on, then that’s it. Punishment handed down and duly served. No further action. And this is why I think that the EFL need to man up and tell Wigan that if they want an appeal they have to confirm that ahead of tomorrow's games, and they can't then change their mind. Otherwise you could have the scenario where Wigan have appealed to avoid the automatic 12 point deduction this year, then they win and Luton and Charlton both lose. Even with the points deduction they are safe, so they then withdraw the appeal, take the 12 points off this season and then start again next year with a clean slate. That can't be right.
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Post by 66738 on Jul 21, 2020 9:04:06 GMT 1
I’m pretty sure I heard that the administrators at Wigan say that an appeal has already been lodged? Weeks ago??
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Post by rastrick32 on Jul 21, 2020 9:08:21 GMT 1
I think a few sides will have points deductions next year As long as Town steer clear of admin the safety line will be 40 points Hopefully we’re looking upwards of that though This is a really good point. If the EFL get their act together (I know, I know...) then we could go into the new season with the shackles off.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 21, 2020 9:10:30 GMT 1
Wigan, yes the penalty has to be implemented this season. The guidelines are clear. No argument. Wednesday is different. As much as I dislike the Massive, it would be very unfair to impose a sanction of points deducted now, this season. They would have played the last 9 games differently if they knew they had a certain target to achieve to avoid relegation. Then there is the amount of time it would take to deal with the appeal. It would mean literally weeks, even days away from the new season commencing, Wednesday and not to mention whoever takes the third relegation spot out of Hull, Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Middlesbrough or Birmingham, Would still be no wiser to which league they had to plan for. Totally unacceptable. No, if Sheffield Wednesday gets punished by points deduction, It has to be implemented next season for fairness to Wednesday and any other team that would be involved. The 'integrity' should mean that sheff weds played every league game the same? ? It is their job? If you play to draw or play half arsed for any reason then you only have yourself to blame if the final result or results go badly for whatever reason??? The club knew this was hanging over them just like Wigan, one club strives for the points the other plays like shit and fails to pay wages? I say again the integrity was always pretty weak when it comes to football clubs and the players have taken it to a new level..
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Post by ruggedivy on Jul 21, 2020 9:16:36 GMT 1
Can only see the Wigan penalty been rescinded if they win an appeal ( which is very unlikely). Who knows what’s going on with Wednesday..
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Post by lochnessterrier on Jul 21, 2020 9:18:17 GMT 1
All I can say is thank god we beat WBA on Friday, I don't think I could have coped with tomorrow's tension.
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Post by ringdisco on Jul 21, 2020 9:19:39 GMT 1
Hopefully we can all delay punishments in the future to when it's more convenient for us?? Utterly pointless it seems to make these rules when it takes forever to make a decision and then to defer the implementation?? Football becomes less important to me on a daily basis, they are killing it themselves... The wages, the silly following of political movements and silly 'respect' badges that mean zero to the actual participants wearing them mean integrity is now at such a premium it's hard to find. To me football should absolutely be political, though, and mirror issues in society. As it is in the rest of the world. Only in Britain are we stuck with this watered down overreaction from the 80s, and have ended up peddling to the mass media, sponsors and politicians. Just look at what the Premiership looks and feels like today. Appallingly mainstream entertainment product. That being said, ofc the players don't care, most of them any way. And as you can probably tell, british football becomes less and less important for me too, but looking to the continent, there is still lots of "real" football, even as high up as the Bundesliga.
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Post by houllierspal on Jul 21, 2020 9:26:05 GMT 1
Clubs just need to respect the rules and decisions and get on with it not challenging things at every opportunity
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 9:26:07 GMT 1
This just drags it out. Surely Wigan’s owners will appeal their lack of a points deduction and relegation this season?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 9:31:42 GMT 1
That is true and was always going to be the case. However, Wigan have appealed (on the most ridiculous and spurious grounds) and two weeks will not be enough to hear the appeal. It’s probably better for us but is actually disgraceful for the game (as galpharm 2400 makes clear above). I genuinely feel for clubs like Barnsley, Luton, Charlton, Boro and even Brum who took an immediate 9 point deduction in the middle of last season. When you say spurious, is it actually a legal angle they can pursue? Most disputes have to be set against fairly strict legal criteria, otherwise the courts would be swamped. If it really is spurious this is just another own goal by the EFL. Makes you wonder if this could be a watershed moment for them as an organisation? The start of the old boys club coming apart... Their appeal is utterly spurious. Their suggestion is that its not their fault, due to force majeure circumstances out of their control as a result of football being suspended due to the coronavirus. BUT - the club was sold on the 4th of June. The owners coming in are perversely the ONLY football club owners in England (perhaps the world?!) who took over a football club whilst KNOWING what the operating conditions are. Its a bit like telling an insurance company you're going to burn a car out, filming yourself setting fire to the car, sharing that film to the world and then asking the insurance company to pay out.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Jul 21, 2020 9:34:38 GMT 1
I don't give a f**k cause we're staying up 🎶
I don't give a f**k cause we're staying up 🎶
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jul 21, 2020 9:39:52 GMT 1
Sorry, why are we taking anything the Mail says seriously?
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by iangreaves on Jul 21, 2020 9:41:27 GMT 1
All I can say is thank god we beat WBA on Friday, I don't think I could have coped with tomorrow's tension. Given the way Town have made us suffer over the years, I'm still bricking it a bit about tomorrow. If there is a way to fuck it up, you can guarantee that Town will find it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 9:42:50 GMT 1
I think the longer the EFL piss around with all of this, the better chance Wigan have of winning their appeal.
You can't apply a 12-point deduction to a previous season in, for example, August, merely weeks before the start of the new season.
Well, knowing the EFL they probably could do that, but it would be extremely harsh.
It needs sorting within the next 7 days if Wigan's deduction is going to be applied to this season, in my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 9:49:20 GMT 1
I think the longer the EFL piss around with all of this, the better chance Wigan have of winning their appeal. You can't apply a 12-point deduction to a previous season in, for example, August, merely weeks before the start of the new season. Well, knowing the EFL they probably could do that, but it would be extremely harsh. It needs sorting within the next 7 days if Wigan's deduction is going to be applied to this season, in my opinion. Wigan's 12 point deduction will be applied on Wednesday after their Match against Fulham, the EFL have confirmed that. Wigan can appeal that but the points will be deducted on Wednesday. If Wigan are in the drop zone after that 12 point deduction, they will be deemed as being relegated but that could change if they win the appeal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 9:51:14 GMT 1
I think the longer the EFL piss around with all of this, the better chance Wigan have of winning their appeal. You can't apply a 12-point deduction to a previous season in, for example, August, merely weeks before the start of the new season. Well, knowing the EFL they probably could do that, but it would be extremely harsh. It needs sorting within the next 7 days if Wigan's deduction is going to be applied to this season, in my opinion. Wigan's 12 point deduction will be applied on Wednesday after their Match against Fulham, the EFL have confirmed that. Wigan can appeal that but the points will be deducted on Wednesday. If Wigan are in the drop zone after that 12 point deduction, they will be deemed as being relegated but that could change if they win the appeal. Understood, thank you. But then that does pose a series of other questions: - When will they appeal? - How long will it take before Wigan know if they're successful in their appeal? - How does this impact the team that initially finished 22nd, and who thought they were safe? It's a mess.
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