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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 8, 2020 18:44:04 GMT 1
Its like a strange attitude to dying has developed, where dying isnt just sad, its now unacceptable.
Every day 1700 people die in the UK more or less. Their average age is 81.5. Its sad if you know one of them on a personal level but its not a tragedy overall.. Its just the inevitable end of life and its needed for society to continue.
Covid is just one more thing that might take them, with the slight difference it takes people at a marginally older age on average.... yet this is somehow unacceptable and we must do practically anything we can, no matter how insanely damaging ( including causing the premature deaths of tens of thousands of younger people) in order to stop it happening?? Madness.
Those who are traumatised by people dying of covid ( including governments and their scientific advisors ) must spend their entire lives traumatised by death anyway. Only they dont. 1700 a day dying at 81.5 on average probably doesnt cross their minds. Yet 250 a day dying at 82.4 on average causes their worlds to turn upside down?
Its bizarre, especially when the 250 would largely be part of the 1700 anyway, regardless of covid.
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jim59
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by jim59 on Nov 8, 2020 18:49:00 GMT 1
I wonder how available the 20 minute test kits are . Wonder if we could partner with a research body to pilot a scheme for football crowds. If everyone tested themselves before attending the match and then again at the appropriate point after as designated by the medics this would give them a clue as to the likely potential spread of the virus Ina sport crowd.
This would depend upon complete honesty from the supporters of course.
No doubt some one will find a glaring hole in this idea but there must be a way it could be organised.
The premier league could probably afford this approach anyway.
League clubs would probably find it too expensive unless perhaps the government could be persuaded.
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by digs on Nov 8, 2020 19:05:04 GMT 1
I wonder how available the 20 minute test kits are . Wonder if we could partner with a research body to pilot a scheme for football crowds. If everyone tested themselves before attending the match and then again at the appropriate point after as designated by the medics this would give them a clue as to the likely potential spread of the virus Ina sport crowd. This would depend upon complete honesty from the supporters of course. No doubt some one will find a glaring hole in this idea but there must be a way it could be organised. The premier league could probably afford this approach anyway. League clubs would probably find it too expensive unless perhaps the government could be persuaded. I can't even go away with the wife for the weekend for our anniversary,I reckon going to sit in a crowd with 20,000 people shouting and bawling is a non starter for now
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Nov 8, 2020 19:11:03 GMT 1
Its like a strange attitude to dying has developed, where dying isnt just sad, its now unacceptable. Every day 1700 people die in the UK more or less. Their average age is 81.5. Its sad if you know one of them on a personal level but its not a tragedy overall.. Its just the inevitable end of life and its needed for society to continue. Covid is just one more thing that might take them, with the slight difference it takes people at a marginally older age on average.... yet this is somehow unacceptable and we must do practically anything we can, no matter how insanely damaging ( including causing the premature deaths of tens of thousands of younger people) in order to stop it happening?? Madness. Those who are traumatised by people dying of covid ( including governments and their scientific advisors ) must spend their entire lives traumatised by death anyway. Only they dont. 1700 a day dying at 81.5 on average probably doesnt cross their minds. Yet 250 a day dying at 82.4 on average causes their worlds to turn upside down? Its bizarre, especially when the 250 would largely be part of the 1700 anyway, regardless of covid. I think you make a valid point there. An irrational attitude has developed yo death and covid.
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Post by SaudiTerrier on Nov 8, 2020 21:15:14 GMT 1
If you’re afraid for yourself or a loved one, protect yourself and make whatever arrangements you want to ensure you’re protected.
Everyone who wants to carry on as normal should be able to.
Anything else is just plain stupid and this was obvious since Spring.
Should we also be locking the world down because someone down the road might be dealing with chemotherapy, the flu or any other illness?
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Post by hypotenuse on Nov 8, 2020 21:29:17 GMT 1
If you’re afraid for yourself or a loved one, protect yourself and make whatever arrangements you want to ensure you’re protected. Everyone who wants to carry on as normal should be able to. Anything else is just plain stupid and this was obvious since Spring. Should we also be locking the world down because someone down the road might be dealing with chemotherapy, the flu or any other illness? Would be great if you could do that but it doesn’t work like that on the real world. My wife is nowhere near old age ((she is in her 50s) but, due to mismanagement by our beloved NHS of a previously problem-free and well-managed asthma condition, she now has an extremely serious lung condition which would (according to her doctor) mean she would almost certainly die if she got Coronavirus - in fact, the advice she received when Covid-19 first appeared was: make a will, have a hospital bag ready at all times and pray a lot. She is shielding but it makes no difference as I am compelled to go out to work or I would not be paid. So saying make your own arrangements and let everyone else get on with their lives isn’t as simple as it sounds.
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Post by 28901 on Nov 8, 2020 22:53:48 GMT 1
Kids are spreading it like wildfire. First time I didnt know one person who had it. Now I know plenty. Dreadful if anyone suffers badly or dies but all these schoolkids seem to be over it within a few days. if you think teenagers aren't partying then think again. And what’s the problem if vulnerable people are self cocooning?? I don't know. My daughters at school. They're all getting it. My mums alone in a house at 90.She doesnt want and can't live her life self condoning. Do I just abandon her or go up and risk killing her? So many grey areas.A bug percentage of people cant see beyond their own situation. Then they just shout about how bad it is. My gut is let's just live our lives but it isn't that simple.
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by drewden on Nov 8, 2020 23:09:21 GMT 1
Its like a strange attitude to dying has developed, where dying isnt just sad, its now unacceptable. Every day 1700 people die in the UK more or less. Their average age is 81.5. Its sad if you know one of them on a personal level but its not a tragedy overall.. Its just the inevitable end of life and its needed for society to continue. Covid is just one more thing that might take them, with the slight difference it takes people at a marginally older age on average.... yet this is somehow unacceptable and we must do practically anything we can, no matter how insanely damaging ( including causing the premature deaths of tens of thousands of younger people) in order to stop it happening?? Madness. Those who are traumatised by people dying of covid ( including governments and their scientific advisors ) must spend their entire lives traumatised by death anyway. Only they dont. 1700 a day dying at 81.5 on average probably doesnt cross their minds. Yet 250 a day dying at 82.4 on average causes their worlds to turn upside down? Its bizarre, especially when the 250 would largely be part of the 1700 anyway, regardless of covid. I totally agree, the situation we are in does not add up, is there something the governments know that we don't?
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Post by melbourneterrier on Nov 8, 2020 23:30:37 GMT 1
Does it matter how old people are? Since when did we just give up on the most vulnerable? This doesn't just include the elderly.
For anyone comparing it to the Flu, the Flu has an annual case number of 3-5million severe illness, with upto 650,000 deaths (according to WHO), where as Covid is utpo about 1.25m deaths worldwide and it's increasing in rate. This isn't just another 'flu'. Yes, the majority of people who get it do survive, it's still taking too many lives.
That and, we don't even know what the long term effects are of it yet.
I fully understand the desire to live with it and there is a need for a Covid normal, as quite frankly, we don't know when a vaccine will be out. However, I don't think it's realistic to expect to live as normal while numbers are spiralling out of control.
It's interesting to see the different methods in dealing with it. USA for example, Trump has largely ignored it, and his people have suffered...I'd guess, it could be one reason why he lost the election..although I don't try and make sense of American politics. Sweden, who shunned any lockdowns is now in a very serious situation (as described by their Prime Ministir)
Places like Australia and New Zealand have been quite strong with lockdowns, even locking down certain parts of their country and they have stayed relatively covid-free because of it. New Zealand are very quick on lockdown in particular. Australia, the states act independently, and now Victoria who were recording upwards of 700 new cases a day (a small amount compared to the UK) has now opened up and have 0 new cases for over a week now.
Well, it's all well and good talking about other countries I suppose, but the situations are different. Australia and NZ are islands, and aren't as densely populated however, they've dealt with their challenges well.
What is the best way forward? I can't say, I'm not an expert but I'm very against doing nothing, abandoning the vulnerable people and letting the healthcare system get over run. That said, I also agree there does need to be some normality, some form of freedom but only once the numbers are at a manageable level.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 9, 2020 1:38:10 GMT 1
Does it matter how old people are? Since when did we just give up on the most vulnerable? This doesn't just include the elderly. For anyone comparing it to the Flu, the Flu has an annual case number of 3-5million severe illness, with upto 650,000 deaths (according to WHO), where as Covid is utpo about 1.25m deaths worldwide and it's increasing in rate. This isn't just another 'flu'. Yes, the majority of people who get it do survive, it's still taking too many lives. That and, we don't even know what the long term effects are of it yet. I fully understand the desire to live with it and there is a need for a Covid normal, as quite frankly, we don't know when a vaccine will be out. However, I don't think it's realistic to expect to live as normal while numbers are spiralling out of control. It's interesting to see the different methods in dealing with it. USA for example, Trump has largely ignored it, and his people have suffered...I'd guess, it could be one reason why he lost the election..although I don't try and make sense of American politics. Sweden, who shunned any lockdowns is now in a very serious situation (as described by their Prime Ministir)Places like Australia and New Zealand have been quite strong with lockdowns, even locking down certain parts of their country and they have stayed relatively covid-free because of it. New Zealand are very quick on lockdown in particular. Australia, the states act independently, and now Victoria who were recording upwards of 700 new cases a day (a small amount compared to the UK) has now opened up and have 0 new cases for over a week now. Well, it's all well and good talking about other countries I suppose, but the situations are different. Australia and NZ are islands, and aren't as densely populated however, they've dealt with their challenges well. What is the best way forward? I can't say, I'm not an expert but I'm very against doing nothing, abandoning the vulnerable people and letting the healthcare system get over run. That said, I also agree there does need to be some normality, some form of freedom but only once the numbers are at a manageable level. Sweden had 2 deaths with a positive covid result the other day. 4 the day before that. Their current 7 day rolling average is 7. Its not what id describe as a serious situation in a country of 10.2 million. I think it does matter how old people are. Its just a simple acceptance that old people die. If somethings killing people on average at an age older than the average life expectancy, then IMO thats very relevant. Whats also relevant is the average age of all the tens of thousands that our futile efforts to stop that happening are dying at... it will be considerably lower. Then you factor in the jobs lost, the businesses lost, the hopes and dreams lost, the freedoms lost, the structures of society lost... the burden of debt we are inflicting on the young at the same time as we wreck their lives.. If youre 85 and reasonably healthy you have about a 95% chance of not dying from covid if you get it.. but youre still on borrowed time at that age either way,, only now youve just had almost a whole year of what time you do have left ruined ( and counting) . Theres no easy answers to any of it, but trying to 'beat' covid isnt one of them. Its futile. A vaccine wont do it either. Itll always be here.. killing thousands every year in 'covid season' just like flu has always done. Do we accept that ( as we do for all the other fatal illnesses ) and get on with living or do we continue indefinitely in this oppressive, insane spiral of self-destruction? Weve just long since drifted into a situation where the cure is worse than the virus.
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Post by willo on Nov 9, 2020 2:08:52 GMT 1
Following on from the above, what do people think is a good innings these days? My old man passed at 76 several years ago and I still consider this a decent innings even these days. He’d been fortunate enough to retire at 58 and despite a couple of heart attacks, only went into a pretty steep decline with dementia once he went into hospital at 75 for a minor op, picked up a bug which accelerated the dementia and succumbed. Very sad but he’d had a good life. There are too many with this shocking illness that are simply existing, you couldn’t call it living, sometimes for years and long bereft of any dignity. Covid, very much in the main, is taking out the older generation (and those with poor immune systems) and maybe it’s natures way of dealing with an over populated world? I don’t want this to come across as heartless (although I’m not much of a sentimentalist) and I’m not saying people shouldn’t be in a hospital if they are ill but I am a realist.
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Post by impact on Nov 9, 2020 2:15:57 GMT 1
Following on from the above, what do people think is a good innings these days? My old man passed at 76 several years ago and I still consider this a decent innings even these days. He’d been fortunate enough to retire at 58 and despite a couple of heart attacks, only went into a pretty steep decline with dementia once he went into hospital at 75 for a minor op, picked up a bug which accelerated the dementia and succumbed. Very sad but he’d had a good life. There are too many with this shocking illness that are simply existing, you couldn’t call it living, sometimes for years and long bereft of any dignity. Covid, very much in the main, is taking out the older generation (and those with poor immune systems) and maybe it’s natures way of dealing with an over populated world? I don’t want this to come across as heartless (although I’m not much of a sentimentalist) and I’m not saying people shouldn’t be in a hospital if they are ill but I am a realist. Average life expectancy in the UK is around 81.5 so I'd say anything over 80.
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Post by melbourneterrier on Nov 9, 2020 2:23:19 GMT 1
Does it matter how old people are? Since when did we just give up on the most vulnerable? This doesn't just include the elderly. For anyone comparing it to the Flu, the Flu has an annual case number of 3-5million severe illness, with upto 650,000 deaths (according to WHO), where as Covid is utpo about 1.25m deaths worldwide and it's increasing in rate. This isn't just another 'flu'. Yes, the majority of people who get it do survive, it's still taking too many lives. That and, we don't even know what the long term effects are of it yet. I fully understand the desire to live with it and there is a need for a Covid normal, as quite frankly, we don't know when a vaccine will be out. However, I don't think it's realistic to expect to live as normal while numbers are spiralling out of control. It's interesting to see the different methods in dealing with it. USA for example, Trump has largely ignored it, and his people have suffered...I'd guess, it could be one reason why he lost the election..although I don't try and make sense of American politics. Sweden, who shunned any lockdowns is now in a very serious situation (as described by their Prime Ministir)Places like Australia and New Zealand have been quite strong with lockdowns, even locking down certain parts of their country and they have stayed relatively covid-free because of it. New Zealand are very quick on lockdown in particular. Australia, the states act independently, and now Victoria who were recording upwards of 700 new cases a day (a small amount compared to the UK) has now opened up and have 0 new cases for over a week now. Well, it's all well and good talking about other countries I suppose, but the situations are different. Australia and NZ are islands, and aren't as densely populated however, they've dealt with their challenges well. What is the best way forward? I can't say, I'm not an expert but I'm very against doing nothing, abandoning the vulnerable people and letting the healthcare system get over run. That said, I also agree there does need to be some normality, some form of freedom but only once the numbers are at a manageable level. Sweden had 2 deaths with a positive covid result the other day. 4 the day before that. Their current 7 day rolling average is 7. Its not what id describe as a serious situation in a country of 10.2 million. I think it does matter how old people are. Its just a simple acceptance that old people die. If somethings killing people on average at an age older than the average life expectancy, then IMO thats very relevant. Whats also relevant is the average age of all the tens of thousands that our futile efforts to stop that happening are dying at... it will be considerably lower. Then you factor in the jobs lost, the businesses lost, the hopes and dreams lost, the freedoms lost, the structures of society lost... the burden of debt we are inflicting on the young at the same time as we wreck their lives.. If youre 85 and reasonably healthy you have about a 95% chance of not dying from covid if you get it.. but youre still on borrowed time at that age either way,, only now youve just had almost a whole year of what time you do have left ruined ( and counting) . Theres no easy answers to any of it, but trying to 'beat' covid isnt one of them. Its futile. A vaccine wont do it either. Itll always be here.. killing thousands every year in 'covid season' just like flu has always done. Do we accept that ( as we do for all the other fatal illnesses ) and get on with living or do we continue indefinitely in this oppressive, insane spiral of self-destruction? Weve just long since drifted into a situation where the cure is worse than the virus. Re Sweden, that was just a direct quote from the Prime Minister. I do notice during their first , they were getting 100's of deaths a day, peaking at 115. Which would be way more than flu. Comparing Covid numbers to the regular flu is completely wrong. It's more dangerous than the flu. Why do you think countries all over the world are going into lockdown to stop the spread? Is it right? I don't know. Does it work? debate-able. There are examples where it has worked ala Australia, New Zealand. And others where it hasn't, UK is a prime example. It does feel like the work from the first lockdown seems to be all for nothing, or a temporary band aid. Could it be that the answer is to improve contact tracing, and be stricter on certain things more than others. Ignoring Covid, or treating it like a seasonal virus is not the right answer. Is lockdown? Not long term, but it bring it under control. What happens from then is upto the public to do the right thing and the government to put in place measures and procedures to prevent another ' '. I think flare ups or outbreaks are inevitable, especially with international borders being open. It's how the response is that's important. Lockdown is good to bring numbers under control, but you can't be locked down forever. You look at business closing, people's mental health as you've mentioned, peoples need to be with family etc. For me, I value human life over the economy. I'm no medical expert, or a Covid expert or anything. Just a keyboard jockey with an opinion, and it's that Covid can't be swept under the rug, can't be lumped in with flu, can't give up on vulnerable people (not just the elderly). Actively wanting high case numbers, for me, is just pure madness. Minimize the numbers, put in measures to deal with low case numbers, give people freedom. To simply ignore a global pandemic which has taken well over a million lives in such a short time is just ignorant. Anyways, that's all I have to say on the matter, I'm not an expert, nor in a position to change anything so I'm going to leave it here. We may not agree on things, but that's okay.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Nov 9, 2020 7:44:30 GMT 1
Sweden had 2 deaths with a positive covid result the other day. 4 the day before that. Their current 7 day rolling average is 7. Its not what id describe as a serious situation in a country of 10.2 million. I think it does matter how old people are. Its just a simple acceptance that old people die. If somethings killing people on average at an age older than the average life expectancy, then IMO thats very relevant. Whats also relevant is the average age of all the tens of thousands that our futile efforts to stop that happening are dying at... it will be considerably lower. Then you factor in the jobs lost, the businesses lost, the hopes and dreams lost, the freedoms lost, the structures of society lost... the burden of debt we are inflicting on the young at the same time as we wreck their lives.. If youre 85 and reasonably healthy you have about a 95% chance of not dying from covid if you get it.. but youre still on borrowed time at that age either way,, only now youve just had almost a whole year of what time you do have left ruined ( and counting) . Theres no easy answers to any of it, but trying to 'beat' covid isnt one of them. Its futile. A vaccine wont do it either. Itll always be here.. killing thousands every year in 'covid season' just like flu has always done. Do we accept that ( as we do for all the other fatal illnesses ) and get on with living or do we continue indefinitely in this oppressive, insane spiral of self-destruction? Weve just long since drifted into a situation where the cure is worse than the virus. Re Sweden, that was just a direct quote from the Prime Minister. I do notice during their first , they were getting 100's of deaths a day, peaking at 115. Which would be way more than flu. Comparing Covid numbers to the regular flu is completely wrong. It's more dangerous than the flu. Why do you think countries all over the world are going into lockdown to stop the spread? Is it right? I don't know. Does it work? debate-able. There are examples where it has worked ala Australia, New Zealand. And others where it hasn't, UK is a prime example. It does feel like the work from the first lockdown seems to be all for nothing, or a temporary band aid. Could it be that the answer is to improve contact tracing, and be stricter on certain things more than others. Ignoring Covid, or treating it like a seasonal virus is not the right answer. Is lockdown? Not long term, but it bring it under control. What happens from then is upto the public to do the right thing and the government to put in place measures and procedures to prevent another ' '. I think flare ups or outbreaks are inevitable, especially with international borders being open. It's how the response is that's important. Lockdown is good to bring numbers under control, but you can't be locked down forever. You look at business closing, people's mental health as you've mentioned, peoples need to be with family etc. For me, I value human life over the economy. I'm no medical expert, or a Covid expert or anything. Just a keyboard jockey with an opinion, and it's that Covid can't be swept under the rug, can't be lumped in with flu, can't give up on vulnerable people (not just the elderly). Actively wanting high case numbers, for me, is just pure madness. Minimize the numbers, put in measures to deal with low case numbers, give people freedom. To simply ignore a global pandemic which has taken well over a million lives in such a short time is just ignorant. Anyways, that's all I have to say on the matter, I'm not an expert, nor in a position to change anything so I'm going to leave it here. We may not agree on things, but that's okay. For a start, the death figure is completely unreliable. They test the hell out of everyone in hospital with a test that is known to have a significant number of false positives. The longer you're in hosptial, the more times you get tested, the more likely it is that you will return a positive test at some point. If you then die within 28 days of that positive test you go down as a CV19 death despite the fact you were asymptomatic for Covid symptoms and died due to a long running battle with cancer, for example. As for New Zealand, they've got to face the music at some point and when they do it will pass through them like it has everybody else. You can hide from it. It is a virus with with a 99.9% survival rate, just face it and get through it rather than delaying the inevitable. History will show that Sweden handled it correctly apart from their decision with care homes which is what caused around half of their deaths. They are showing no signs of a second , people have been able to live their lives as normal and they didnt trash their economy or neglect other health issues in the process. Excess deaths are mainly now occuring at home. They are very unlikely to be CV deaths. They are people who have missed out on vital diagnoses and treatment that they would normally have received but we locked them out of the NHS all in the name of CV19 and "protecting the vulnerable". Talk of the NHS being overwhelmed always was a load of bollox, the Nightingale hopsitals have allegedly treated around 200 patients which works out at a cost close to £1 million per patient
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Nov 9, 2020 8:51:54 GMT 1
Its like a strange attitude to dying has developed, where dying isnt just sad, its now unacceptable. Every day 1700 people die in the UK more or less. Their average age is 81.5. Its sad if you know one of them on a personal level but its not a tragedy overall.. Its just the inevitable end of life and its needed for society to continue. Covid is just one more thing that might take them, with the slight difference it takes people at a marginally older age on average.... yet this is somehow unacceptable and we must do practically anything we can, no matter how insanely damaging ( including causing the premature deaths of tens of thousands of younger people) in order to stop it happening?? Madness. Those who are traumatised by people dying of covid ( including governments and their scientific advisors ) must spend their entire lives traumatised by death anyway. Only they dont. 1700 a day dying at 81.5 on average probably doesnt cross their minds. Yet 250 a day dying at 82.4 on average causes their worlds to turn upside down? Its bizarre, especially when the 250 would largely be part of the 1700 anyway, regardless of covid. I totally agree, the situation we are in does not add up, is there something the governments know that we don't? I'd argue it's probably the other way around, that we know and they don't have a Fucking scoob.
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Post by El Mel on Nov 9, 2020 10:49:57 GMT 1
I totally agree, the situation we are in does not add up, is there something the governments know that we don't? I'd argue it's probably the other way around, that we know and they don't have a Fucking scoob. Bill Gates seemed pretty knowledgeable on what was gonna happen a few years ago. The world is on a transformation to technological revolution as a result of a virus he knew was coming Odd that? Do people still think all this stemmed from eating a random bat? We won't ever get our lives back as we knew life 12 months ago. Fans will get back in the stadiums, at least the ones of the clubs that survive.
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Nov 9, 2020 11:07:26 GMT 1
Might be better if along with the deaths recorded of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test they gave out separate figures for people who died without any other known symptoms apart from Covid.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 9, 2020 11:32:18 GMT 1
Following on from the above, what do people think is a good innings these days? My old man passed at 76 several years ago and I still consider this a decent innings even these days. He’d been fortunate enough to retire at 58 and despite a couple of heart attacks, only went into a pretty steep decline with dementia once he went into hospital at 75 for a minor op, picked up a bug which accelerated the dementia and succumbed. Very sad but he’d had a good life. There are too many with this shocking illness that are simply existing, you couldn’t call it living, sometimes for years and long bereft of any dignity. Covid, very much in the main, is taking out the older generation (and those with poor immune systems) and maybe it’s natures way of dealing with an over populated world? I don’t want this to come across as heartless (although I’m not much of a sentimentalist) and I’m not saying people shouldn’t be in a hospital if they are ill but I am a realist. Think it largely depends on quality of life. Spent a bit of time in two nursing homes visiting relatives over the past decade and to me a lot of the people in there arent having a life in the true sense, theyre just existing. I dont think for many the time spent in those places adds to their 'good innings' in anything other than time. It only detracts from it in many other ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 13:29:07 GMT 1
And what’s the problem if vulnerable people are self cocooning?? I don't know. My daughters at school. They're all getting it. My mums alone in a house at 90.She doesnt want and can't live her life self condoning. Do I just abandon her or go up and risk killing her? So many grey areas.A bug percentage of people cant see beyond their own situation. Then they just shout about how bad it is. My gut is let's just live our lives but it isn't that simple. I think it is that simple to be honest. My mother is similar (although not alone, she's a carer for my brother). Lad is at Uni in a big hot spot - but they're doing everything online until 2021. He did meet up to do team sports whilst they could, they didn't socialise or go to pub afterwards, and otherwise he's just stayed in, and we take some stuff and visit him every 3 weeks or so (he's living alone, so its allowed!). My daughter is at college, (and also works in retail, and meets up to hang out with a small group of friends to play basketball pretty much every night - although since the national lockdown kicked in has just met up and walked around for a couple of hours each evening with one friend (fair play she's not even cheating, I've happened to see her when I driven out to a shop - I'm pretty sure if I was 17 I'd be bending the rules!!)) - so a half decent chance she'll have it or has had it at some point already - so follows there's a reasonable chance I'll have it or have had it. The overwhelming likelihood if I did get it is I wouldn't even know, or symptoms would be mild, but obviously I wouldn't want to pass it on (and I'd rather avoid getting it in the first place if I can!), so I've just avoided my mother for the last 7 months, and if she's needed something that she can't easily get (doesn't drive and my brothers medical stuff is quite bulky), then we've just taken precautions such as face coverings, reduced contact time down to a few minutes etc. If she gets it the overwhelming likelihood even as someone in her 80's, is that she'd be just fine too, so she's not really worrying too much, and is just 'following the guidelines' as much as is reasonably practicable (such as not going into Town every 2 or 3 days like old people often do!). Some people out there are truly frightened of existence though I went out for a walk for 2hrs last night with a friend, and we gave a bit of natural space to the few others we came across along our travels etc, but at one point we came across a lady maybe in her late 60's coming towards us - on a path about 3 metres wide with a wall to one side and a bit of grass and trees to the other (so it was easily possible to 'distance' in passing) - I could tell this lady was scared when she was maybe 30 or 40 feet away...but as we approached, she basically hugged the wall, in utter fear, and waited until we had passed (we walked on the grass, so pretty distant) before she set off again. It was definitely Coronavirus she was afraid of, we were carrying a map, had head torches, had light coloured and reflective clothes and we weren't two men, so obviously not muggers. BUT - despite her fear she didn't even have a face covering which would seem sensible if you're scared of meeting people even in the open. So 'cocooning with some considered risk' is how I see it. Its the way that humans are SUPPOSED to exist...people are educated to understand risks and behave appropriately...if you're walking on winding unlit country roads at night, wearing black, and with music playing in earphones, then you're probably taking a risk you shouldn't really be doing - but we don't force everyone to carry torches and wear reflective arm bands....if its sunny, you slap on sun cream or ensure you're not out in it for extended periods...if you're going to run 20miles+ solo, you take water and nutrition, if you're walking the Three Peaks, you take waterproofs etc. If there's no risk in life, then we might as well end things now - balancing risk and excitement are what humans thrive on. Probably not a particularly good example, but Formula 1 racing wouldn't have lasted this long if there was no cost of failure. Nobody would have visited the moon, Everest and K2 and many smaller mountains would never have been conquered, and they wouldn't be speaking English in the USA! The change in behaviours that have been 'forced' this year has put a knife wound in society which will take a long time to recover. There *ARE* alternatives to what has happened, but most countries seem to be on this railroad, dictatorial, highly restrictive of everyone path for some unknown reason.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 13:37:24 GMT 1
I'd argue it's probably the other way around, that we know and they don't have a Fucking scoob. Bill Gates seemed pretty knowledgeable on what was gonna happen a few years ago. The world is on a transformation to technological revolution as a result of a virus he knew was coming Odd that? Do people still think all this stemmed from eating a random bat? We won't ever get our lives back as we knew life 12 months ago. Fans will get back in the stadiums, at least the ones of the clubs that survive. Have you seen this advertised on TV recently...quite creepy. www.decadeofhealth.co.uk
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,649
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Post by ambryboy on Nov 9, 2020 13:55:16 GMT 1
Might be better if along with the deaths recorded of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test they gave out separate figures for people who died without any other known symptoms apart from Covid. Exactly, I half joked with the missus after the Vienna shootings that if that had happened in the UK and any of the unfortunate victims has tested positive within 28 days they would have gone down as a Covid victim rather than a gun shot victim. Utterley bizarre.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 9, 2020 14:06:30 GMT 1
Bill Gates seemed pretty knowledgeable on what was gonna happen a few years ago. The world is on a transformation to technological revolution as a result of a virus he knew was coming Odd that? Do people still think all this stemmed from eating a random bat? We won't ever get our lives back as we knew life 12 months ago. Fans will get back in the stadiums, at least the ones of the clubs that survive. Have you seen this advertised on TV recently...quite creepy. www.decadeofhealth.co.ukSounds great but wonder if they'll do another one for the following decade with food shortages, worldwide destruction of wildlife habitats for housing and farming, wars over resources, over crowding , pension crisis, care home crisis, NHS collapse under the weight of use and a general inability to look after the booming old aged population due to their dreams of stopping everyone dying? The decade after that we can have the Chinese 'one kid per family' fun and games. Humans are increasingly great at stopping people dying.. What we're not so great at is appreciating the consequences of that. Cant help but think nature will find a way of fighting back to human overpopulation. Maybe covid was just a softener for that and a proper Hollywood movie style virus is round the corner
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Post by 28901 on Nov 9, 2020 14:37:14 GMT 1
I don't know. My daughters at school. They're all getting it. My mums alone in a house at 90.She doesnt want and can't live her life self condoning. Do I just abandon her or go up and risk killing her? So many grey areas.A bug percentage of people cant see beyond their own situation. Then they just shout about how bad it is. My gut is let's just live our lives but it isn't that simple. I think it is that simple to be honest. My mother is similar (although not alone, she's a carer for my brother). Lad is at Uni in a big hot spot - but they're doing everything online until 2021. He did meet up to do team sports whilst they could, they didn't socialise or go to pub afterwards, and otherwise he's just stayed in, and we take some stuff and visit him every 3 weeks or so (he's living alone, so its allowed!). My daughter is at college, (and also works in retail, and meets up to hang out with a small group of friends to play basketball pretty much every night - although since the national lockdown kicked in has just met up and walked around for a couple of hours each evening with one friend (fair play she's not even cheating, I've happened to see her when I driven out to a shop - I'm pretty sure if I was 17 I'd be bending the rules!!)) - so a half decent chance she'll have it or has had it at some point already - so follows there's a reasonable chance I'll have it or have had it. The overwhelming likelihood if I did get it is I wouldn't even know, or symptoms would be mild, but obviously I wouldn't want to pass it on (and I'd rather avoid getting it in the first place if I can!), so I've just avoided my mother for the last 7 months, and if she's needed something that she can't easily get (doesn't drive and my brothers medical stuff is quite bulky), then we've just taken precautions such as face coverings, reduced contact time down to a few minutes etc. If she gets it the overwhelming likelihood even as someone in her 80's, is that she'd be just fine too, so she's not really worrying too much, and is just 'following the guidelines' as much as is reasonably practicable (such as not going into Town every 2 or 3 days like old people often do!). Some people out there are truly frightened of existence though I went out for a walk for 2hrs last night with a friend, and we gave a bit of natural space to the few others we came across along our travels etc, but at one point we came across a lady maybe in her late 60's coming towards us - on a path about 3 metres wide with a wall to one side and a bit of grass and trees to the other (so it was easily possible to 'distance' in passing) - I could tell this lady was scared when she was maybe 30 or 40 feet away...but as we approached, she basically hugged the wall, in utter fear, and waited until we had passed (we walked on the grass, so pretty distant) before she set off again. It was definitely Coronavirus she was afraid of, we were carrying a map, had head torches, had light coloured and reflective clothes and we weren't two men, so obviously not muggers. BUT - despite her fear she didn't even have a face covering which would seem sensible if you're scared of meeting people even in the open. So 'cocooning with some considered risk' is how I see it. Its the way that humans are SUPPOSED to exist...people are educated to understand risks and behave appropriately...if you're walking on winding unlit country roads at night, wearing black, and with music playing in earphones, then you're probably taking a risk you shouldn't really be doing - but we don't force everyone to carry torches and wear reflective arm bands....if its sunny, you slap on sun cream or ensure you're not out in it for extended periods...if you're going to run 20miles+ solo, you take water and nutrition, if you're walking the Three Peaks, you take waterproofs etc. If there's no risk in life, then we might as well end things now - balancing risk and excitement are what humans thrive on. Probably not a particularly good example, but Formula 1 racing wouldn't have lasted this long if there was no cost of failure. Nobody would have visited the moon, Everest and K2 and many smaller mountains would never have been conquered, and they wouldn't be speaking English in the USA! The change in behaviours that have been 'forced' this year has put a knife wound in society which will take a long time to recover. There *ARE* alternatives to what has happened, but most countries seem to be on this railroad, dictatorial, highly restrictive of everyone path for some unknown reason. To be honest I agree with all that. The government won't go down that route because they will be immediately blamed by the families of the ones who do die. Just as any viral expert employed to advise the government will offer the safest solution. Their brief is to tell them what we should do to suppress the virus and thats all that will do, not offer alternatives like let everyone get on with their lives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 18:40:26 GMT 1
To be honest I agree with all that. The government won't go down that route because they will be immediately blamed by the families of the ones who do die. Just as any viral expert employed to advise the government will offer the safest solution. Their brief is to tell them what we should do to suppress the virus and thats all that will do, not offer alternatives like let everyone get on with their lives. Yeah its too late - it needed strong leadership from the start, once we (globally) set off on this path, it becomes very difficult to alter. Thankfully it seems like there's a bit of a magic bullet way out, and things will quite likely be pretty much back to 'normal' they were by Spring/early summer next year.
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Post by sabailand on Nov 9, 2020 19:10:05 GMT 1
Sounds great but wonder if they'll do another one for the following decade with food shortages, worldwide destruction of wildlife habitats for housing and farming, wars over resources, over crowding , pension crisis, care home crisis, NHS collapse under the weight of use and a general inability to look after the booming old aged population due to their dreams of stopping everyone dying? The decade after that we can have the Chinese 'one kid per family' fun and games. Humans are increasingly great at stopping people dying.. What we're not so great at is appreciating the consequences of that. Cant help but think nature will find a way of fighting back to human overpopulation. Maybe covid was just a softener for that and a proper Hollywood movie style virus is round the corner Or a zombie outbreak, that would be fun.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 9, 2020 19:10:50 GMT 1
I imagine all the other companies developing vaccines will really step up their timeframes now to get theirs on the market. They really wont want to lose out.
If this american one has a success rate of anything like the 90% they are claiming then that would be incredible. Apparently the flu vaccine was about 40% when first introduced, then was refined over the following years.
be interesting how they go about the roll out , given it needs to be stored at -80 degrees.
You would hope that other production facilities around the world would be given the information to produce it ,under licence perhaps, to speed up the whole thing. Theres a hell of a lot of money to be made so that might get in the way of that.
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Post by 28901 on Nov 9, 2020 21:01:39 GMT 1
To be honest I agree with all that. The government won't go down that route because they will be immediately blamed by the families of the ones who do die. Just as any viral expert employed to advise the government will offer the safest solution. Their brief is to tell them what we should do to suppress the virus and thats all that will do, not offer alternatives like let everyone get on with their lives. Yeah its too late - it needed strong leadership from the start, once we (globally) set off on this path, it becomes very difficult to alter. Thankfully it seems like there's a bit of a magic bullet way out, and things will quite likely be pretty much back to 'normal' they were by Spring/early summer next year. Hope do pal
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 22:46:02 GMT 1
I imagine all the other companies developing vaccines will really step up their timeframes now to get theirs on the market. They really wont want to lose out. If this american one has a success rate of anything like the 90% they are claiming then that would be incredible. Apparently the flu vaccine was about 40% when first introduced, then was refined over the following years. be interesting how they go about the roll out , given it needs to be stored at -80 degrees. You would hope that other production facilities around the world would be given the information to produce it ,under licence perhaps, to speed up the whole thing. Theres a hell of a lot of money to be made so that might get in the way of that.
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Post by yappledapple on Nov 16, 2020 21:54:03 GMT 1
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by ambryboy on Nov 16, 2020 23:24:30 GMT 1
Oh jeez that's footie fucked then just like the Brexit negotiations and Covid. The man's a clown who couldn't even find a comb this morning before posting a video.
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