Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 3, 2021 16:57:32 GMT 1
But can't shoot, pass or tackle 🤨 I like O'Brien, but I'm still not sure what his best position is.For a box to box, surely he should be scoring/assisting more.. but not helped by his team mates I don't think he would be any good as a 10 I always thought he might be good sitting in front of the back 4, but could be a waste of his energy up and down the field. He's worth nowhere near 10 million but there will be a premium on english players this transfer window due to Brexit rules. Left back. Obvs. |
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Post by positive plus + pompous on May 3, 2021 17:13:55 GMT 1
If we can get £5m for O'brien and the money will 100% be invested in hew players then snap their hands off. Five £1m players would improve our squad dramatically. But four of them wouldn't get paid. We are about to clear 100,000+ a week off the wage bill.. are you suggesting we will have absolutely zero to spend other than funds raised? Nonsense. |
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Post by dezzly on May 7, 2021 18:41:17 GMT 1
One issue with selling o brien would be that if the money isn’t up front like apparently it isn’t with most transfers these days.It’s likely the first installment gets swallowed up by corporation tax which was the case with billing.Due to him been home grown academy player and I think not been classed as an asset(or something to that tune)
I think there is likely to be a big turnover of players this summer but still wouldn’t have thought be masses of money spent.Plenty of players out of contract plus the premier league loan market should have opened up much more with covid been less of an issue and also club revenue streams getting towards been back to normal.
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Post by Gold Coast Terrier on May 9, 2021 13:01:39 GMT 1
One issue with selling o brien would be that if the money isn’t up front like apparently it isn’t with most transfers these days.It’s likely the first installment gets swallowed up by corporation tax which was the case with billing.Due to him been home grown academy player and I think not been classed as an asset(or something to that tune) I think there is likely to be a big turnover of players this summer but still wouldn’t have thought be masses of money spent.Plenty of players out of contract plus the premier league loan market should have opened up much more with covid been less of an issue and also club revenue streams getting towards been back to normal. We must be the only club that talks about VAT costs on player sales. That and knowing the intricate details of our training ground car park. |
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Tiro
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Post by Tiro on May 9, 2021 13:29:40 GMT 1
One issue with selling o brien would be that if the money isn’t up front like apparently it isn’t with most transfers these days.It’s likely the first installment gets swallowed up by corporation tax which was the case with billing.Due to him been home grown academy player and I think not been classed as an asset(or something to that tune) I think there is likely to be a big turnover of players this summer but still wouldn’t have thought be masses of money spent.Plenty of players out of contract plus the premier league loan market should have opened up much more with covid been less of an issue and also club revenue streams getting towards been back to normal. We must be the only club that talks about VAT costs on player sales. That and knowing the intricate details of our training ground car park. We’re really not. There are social media channels dedicated to this stuff. It may be dry (for some) but understanding changes the perspective and ultimately expectations. Most folk on here may not be so shouty ragey if they took the time to understand.... |
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Post by dezzly on May 9, 2021 14:36:53 GMT 1
One issue with selling o brien would be that if the money isn’t up front like apparently it isn’t with most transfers these days.It’s likely the first installment gets swallowed up by corporation tax which was the case with billing.Due to him been home grown academy player and I think not been classed as an asset(or something to that tune) I think there is likely to be a big turnover of players this summer but still wouldn’t have thought be masses of money spent.Plenty of players out of contract plus the premier league loan market should have opened up much more with covid been less of an issue and also club revenue streams getting towards been back to normal. We must be the only club that talks about VAT costs on player sales. That and knowing the intricate details of our training ground car park. Haha most likely yes.just something to point out really that if it’s been an issue before it’s always likely it will be again. I mean pretty sure you could still spend whatever the first instalment would be knowing that it could be recouped further down the line.That wouldn’t really fit in with how we have gone about things though 🤷♂️ |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on May 9, 2021 15:22:03 GMT 1
The clocks ticking towards next season from today.
If he’s going let’s not turn it into a drama and get rid as soon as we are able to do so.
Need maximum time to sort this bloody mess out before next season starts.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 9, 2021 15:40:40 GMT 1
Let's be honest, O'Brien staying or going isn't going to have a huge impact on our season next year in terms of his contribution on the pitch. Good player but its not like losing a 20 goal striker or outstanding centre half.
The 5-10 million we may get for him could have a huge impact on our season however
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Post by Towner47 on May 9, 2021 16:03:29 GMT 1
Let's be honest, O'Brien staying or going isn't going to have a huge impact on our season next year in terms of his contribution on the pitch. Good player but its not like losing a 20 goal striker or outstanding centre half. The 5-10 million we may get for him could have a huge impact on our season however I would take the money if offered not been at his best this season. |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on May 9, 2021 16:14:51 GMT 1
Let's be honest, O'Brien staying or going isn't going to have a huge impact on our season next year in terms of his contribution on the pitch. Good player but its not like losing a 20 goal striker or outstanding centre half. The 5-10 million we may get for him could have a huge impact on our season however I would take the money if offered not been at his best this season. Would take a good offer if one came in but finding a replacement for him will not come easy or cheap if i want's to stay i would have no problem with that, love us to get more consistency and more options in the midfield. |
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Tinpot
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Posts: 24,127
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Post by Tinpot on May 9, 2021 16:45:41 GMT 1
Would love him to stay IF he signs a new long term contract this summer.
If not, we'll still get a fee for him in the summer of 2022 because he's under 24, but it won't be much. Selling him now to fund squad strengthening might (depending on the amount we get) be worthwhile.
As for the fee, who knows?
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Post by ruggedivy on May 9, 2021 16:52:51 GMT 1
Would not be disheartened if He left.
Although not an ideal summer for selling a asset!
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on May 9, 2021 17:32:08 GMT 1
Let's be honest, O'Brien staying or going isn't going to have a huge impact on our season next year in terms of his contribution on the pitch. Good player but its not like losing a 20 goal striker or outstanding centre half. The 5-10 million we may get for him could have a huge impact on our season however Agree. In fact as far as I’m concerned ( Hoggy and Schindler apart ) there is not one player in our squad that I’d have a problem with us losing. Sort of sums up the last couple of years does that statement . |
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Post by ringdisco on May 9, 2021 21:11:20 GMT 1
Let's be honest, O'Brien staying or going isn't going to have a huge impact on our season next year in terms of his contribution on the pitch. Good player but its not like losing a 20 goal striker or outstanding centre half. The 5-10 million we may get for him could have a huge impact on our season however Agree. In fact as far as I’m concerned ( Hoggy and Schindler apart ) there is not one player in our squad that I’d have a problem with us losing. Sort of sums up the last couple of years does that statement . Koroma |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 9, 2021 22:13:09 GMT 1
Agree. In fact as far as I’m concerned ( Hoggy and Schindler apart ) there is not one player in our squad that I’d have a problem with us losing. Sort of sums up the last couple of years does that statement . Koroma He's an interesting one. I can see him going from strength to strength. I can also see him utterly bombing out & spending the rest of his career in the lower leagues. Which of those is more likely depends on how quickly he can learn to use his left foot for something other than standing on, vs how quickly opposition defenders learn to just put him on his left foot. If he could get his left foot up to a standard where he can do anything at all with it, he'll make it in the PL. If he can't, league 1 beckons. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on May 9, 2021 22:21:49 GMT 1
He's an interesting one. I can see him going from strength to strength. I can also see him utterly bombing out & spending the rest of his career in the lower leagues. Which of those is more likely depends on how quickly he can learn to use his left foot for something other than standing on, vs how quickly opposition defenders learn to just put him on his left foot. If he could get his left foot up to a standard where he can do anything at all with it, he'll make it in the PL. If he can't, league 1 beckons. At last. A kindred spirit re Koroma. Haven’t seen anyone else voicing their concerns but I’m also of the mind that he could suffer 2nd season syndrome. In many ways he reminds me of Grant. One dimensional - cuts in from the left onto his right foot. Not hard to stop once the opposition catches on. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 9, 2021 22:33:35 GMT 1
He's an interesting one. I can see him going from strength to strength. I can also see him utterly bombing out & spending the rest of his career in the lower leagues. Which of those is more likely depends on how quickly he can learn to use his left foot for something other than standing on, vs how quickly opposition defenders learn to just put him on his left foot. If he could get his left foot up to a standard where he can do anything at all with it, he'll make it in the PL. If he can't, league 1 beckons. At last. A kindred spirit re Koroma. Haven’t seen anyone else voicing their concerns but I’m also of the mind that he could suffer 2nd season syndrome. In many ways he reminds me of Grant. One dimensional - cuts in from the left onto his right foot. Not hard to stop once the opposition catches on. .... unless he can learn to use his left foot. He is capable of some mesmerizing skill. An absolute joy to watch at times, but against Reading (& a few times this season tbh) when he's had the chance to shoot, he needed an extra touch to bring it on to his right foot and the chance is gone. He doesn't necessarily have to get his left foot as accomplished as his right foot wand, but if it doesn't at least offer something, then he's going to be in the pocket of every half-competent defender in the championship. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 9, 2021 22:37:06 GMT 1
He's an interesting one. I can see him going from strength to strength. I can also see him utterly bombing out & spending the rest of his career in the lower leagues. Which of those is more likely depends on how quickly he can learn to use his left foot for something other than standing on, vs how quickly opposition defenders learn to just put him on his left foot. If he could get his left foot up to a standard where he can do anything at all with it, he'll make it in the PL. If he can't, league 1 beckons. He needs to grow up and stay out of trouble. I presume you know something I don't. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on May 9, 2021 22:37:20 GMT 1
At last. A kindred spirit re Koroma. Haven’t seen anyone else voicing their concerns but I’m also of the mind that he could suffer 2nd season syndrome. In many ways he reminds me of Grant. One dimensional - cuts in from the left onto his right foot. Not hard to stop once the opposition catches on. .... unless he can learn to use his left foot. He is capable of some mesmerizing skill. An absolute joy to watch at times, but against Reading (& a few times this season tbh) when he's had the chance to shoot, he needed an extra touch to bring it on to his right foot and the chance is gone. He doesn't necessarily have to get his left foot as accomplished as his right foot wand, but if it doesn't at least offer something, then he's going to be in the pocket of every half-competent defender in the championship. Get your point. Certainly hope I’m wrong because we could do with his goals next season. |
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Post by Uddersfield on May 9, 2021 22:48:08 GMT 1
Would be sad to see him go. He’s got great agility, turn of foot and can drive us up the field. I feel like he gets unnecessary criticism at times but at least he actually has a passion for the club.
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Post by Big Ern on May 9, 2021 22:59:47 GMT 1
He's an interesting one. I can see him going from strength to strength. I can also see him utterly bombing out & spending the rest of his career in the lower leagues. Which of those is more likely depends on how quickly he can learn to use his left foot for something other than standing on, vs how quickly opposition defenders learn to just put him on his left foot. If he could get his left foot up to a standard where he can do anything at all with it, he'll make it in the PL. If he can't, league 1 beckons. He needs to grow up and stay out of trouble. 🤔 why make a comment like that without elaborating? Allude to being in the know so you can get the attention but follow it up with nothing else? Sad |
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Post by townrwe on May 9, 2021 23:08:58 GMT 1
We should be building a squad around him and koroma added to toffolo and pipa.... maybe add REG, Rowe and Critchlow.
Hogg, Velejio and schofield as potential starters depending on recruitment, keep Bacuna
The rest are dispensable, or should I say need to be disposed of. I may have missed someone worth keeping, but if we got through summer with those the only ones remaining I'd be pretty made up.
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Jimuano
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Post by Jimuano on May 10, 2021 7:00:23 GMT 1
A returning Reece Brown will be his replacement  |
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Post by merseysideterrier on May 10, 2021 8:53:17 GMT 1
One issue with selling o brien would be that if the money isn’t up front like apparently it isn’t with most transfers these days.It’s likely the first installment gets swallowed up by corporation tax which was the case with billing.Due to him been home grown academy player and I think not been classed as an asset(or something to that tune) I think there is likely to be a big turnover of players this summer but still wouldn’t have thought be masses of money spent.Plenty of players out of contract plus the premier league loan market should have opened up much more with covid been less of an issue and also club revenue streams getting towards been back to normal. From my limited knowledge on the subject the issue with academy players is that their registrations (the asset which the club is selling) didn't cost anything for the club to acquire, unlike players brought in for a transfer fee. When calculating capital gains for corporation tax purposes you knock the acquisition cost off the amount you receive for the asset before calculating the tax, but as there is no acquisition cost for academy players the taxable amount is much higher. As you say, the tax is payable in the first year but sums are received over several years, so any initial instalments are generally swallowed up by tax. And yes, I am this boring in real life. |
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Post by dezzly on May 10, 2021 9:01:43 GMT 1
One issue with selling o brien would be that if the money isn’t up front like apparently it isn’t with most transfers these days.It’s likely the first installment gets swallowed up by corporation tax which was the case with billing.Due to him been home grown academy player and I think not been classed as an asset(or something to that tune) I think there is likely to be a big turnover of players this summer but still wouldn’t have thought be masses of money spent.Plenty of players out of contract plus the premier league loan market should have opened up much more with covid been less of an issue and also club revenue streams getting towards been back to normal. From my limited knowledge on the subject the issue with academy players is that their registrations (the asset which the club is selling) didn't cost anything for the club to acquire, unlike players brought in for a transfer fee. When calculating capital gains for corporation tax purposes you knock the acquisition cost off the amount you receive for the asset before calculating the tax, but as there is no acquisition cost for academy players the taxable amount is much higher. As you say, the tax is payable in the first year but sums are received over several years, so any initial instalments are generally swallowed up by tax. And yes, I am this boring in real life. Hahaha.it’s a much better explanation than my “or something to that tune” rubbish. Good to know the detail,basically the more we get for him the more it costs us in the short term depending on how the deal gets structured.Utterly ridiculous really but this is what it is.I believe it’s probably inevitable he goes but pretty certain that we will get the best possible price for him. Replacing him will be the most difficult thing. |
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Post by merseysideterrier on May 10, 2021 11:34:04 GMT 1
From my limited knowledge on the subject the issue with academy players is that their registrations (the asset which the club is selling) didn't cost anything for the club to acquire, unlike players brought in for a transfer fee. When calculating capital gains for corporation tax purposes you knock the acquisition cost off the amount you receive for the asset before calculating the tax, but as there is no acquisition cost for academy players the taxable amount is much higher. As you say, the tax is payable in the first year but sums are received over several years, so any initial instalments are generally swallowed up by tax. And yes, I am this boring in real life. Hahaha.it’s a much better explanation than my “or something to that tune” rubbish. Good to know the detail,basically the more we get for him the more it costs us in the short term depending on how the deal gets structured.Utterly ridiculous really but this is what it is.I believe it’s probably inevitable he goes but pretty certain that we will get the best possible price for him. Replacing him will be the most difficult thing. Yep that's about right. Generally instalments work out better for cash flow purposes in the long run but the tax usually stings in the first year. There's VAT to consider too but like most people I have no idea how VAT really works. I agree he'll likely move on this summer, which is a shame as he's been one of the few bright spots in the last couple of years. Replacing him will be tough but definitely key to our squad restructure. The issue is that one of LOBs main features is his energy and how long he can keep running, but I can't think of many players with similar work rates. |
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Post by richhtfc on May 10, 2021 12:09:24 GMT 1
Hahaha.it’s a much better explanation than my “or something to that tune” rubbish. Good to know the detail,basically the more we get for him the more it costs us in the short term depending on how the deal gets structured.Utterly ridiculous really but this is what it is.I believe it’s probably inevitable he goes but pretty certain that we will get the best possible price for him. Replacing him will be the most difficult thing. Yep that's about right. Generally instalments work out better for cash flow purposes in the long run but the tax usually stings in the first year. There's VAT to consider too but like most people I have no idea how VAT really works. I agree he'll likely move on this summer, which is a shame as he's been one of the few bright spots in the last couple of years. Replacing him will be tough but definitely key to our squad restructure. The issue is that one of LOBs main features is his energy and how long he can keep running, but I can't think of many players with similar work rates. Fairly sure we’d only pay VAT on incoming transfers, although being VAT registered we’d reclaim that VAT via monthly tax returns so not especially punitive to cash flow. We’d include VAT on an outgoing transfer so if it’s £4m being quoted that’s either including VAT or the actual amount we’d receive is £4.8m as VAT is currently 20% |
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Post by merseysideterrier on May 10, 2021 12:11:56 GMT 1
Yep that's about right. Generally instalments work out better for cash flow purposes in the long run but the tax usually stings in the first year. There's VAT to consider too but like most people I have no idea how VAT really works. I agree he'll likely move on this summer, which is a shame as he's been one of the few bright spots in the last couple of years. Replacing him will be tough but definitely key to our squad restructure. The issue is that one of LOBs main features is his energy and how long he can keep running, but I can't think of many players with similar work rates. Fairly sure we’d only pay VAT on incoming transfers, although being VAT registered we’d reclaim that VAT via monthly tax returns so not especially punitive to cash flow. We’d include VAT on an outgoing transfer so if it’s £4m being quoted that’s either including VAT or the actual amount we’d receive is £4.8m as VAT is currently 20% Thanks for the explainer, as I say VAT is one of those things that I assume works somehow but I have no idea how it does! |
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Post by Gold Coast Terrier on May 10, 2021 13:15:31 GMT 1
We must be the only club that talks about VAT costs on player sales. That and knowing the intricate details of our training ground car park. We’re really not. There are social media channels dedicated to this stuff. It may be dry (for some) but understanding changes the perspective and ultimately expectations. Most folk on here may not be so shouty ragey if they took the time to understand.... Ok my apologies, which twitter accounts are dedicated to VAT costs on player sales? |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on May 10, 2021 13:23:46 GMT 1
We’re really not. There are social media channels dedicated to this stuff. It may be dry (for some) but understanding changes the perspective and ultimately expectations. Most folk on here may not be so shouty ragey if they took the time to understand.... Ok my apologies, which twitter accounts are dedicated to VAT costs on player sales? Oh for the days of just been able to read you have made a signing - without the accompanying spreadsheets and financial breakdowns! Leave this to the club accountant - it’s bloody boring. |
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