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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 20, 2021 8:04:00 GMT 1
I'd perhaps have more sympathy with that view if a) this wasn't a repeat offence for exactly that wording. Oti is intelligent enough to have either argued that defence the first time round or used a synonym that could not be misinterpreted this time and b) had not previously conflated homosexuality and paedophilia on more than one occasion. He could be in no doubt that his use of "deviant" could and would result in action as it already had. And we also both know he's smart enough to know the connotations of the word. I think you're clutching. I.admire your loyalty, however. As do I, with your comedy career. See, there was I thinking we were managing to have a relatively calm and civilised discussion, and then you have to again stoop to a cheap personal insult. If I gave a shit what you thought of me, I'd be hurt by that. |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jul 20, 2021 8:48:18 GMT 1
So, as "our BBC" is so fond of pointing out, there appears to be some confusion here.
Is Nick being allowed back, or not?!!
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Post by dugnet on Jul 20, 2021 9:22:27 GMT 1
What relevance is what other religons say? If something is wrong it's wrong? I don't see how you can create a justification benchmark from another group with dubious opinions/views. I also read that many weren't offended by Otis post. Isn't this missing the point? This board represents us as Huddersfield Town fans, and as such represents Huddersfield Town. People are entitled to their views, and their views are then to be challenged. The rules are in place in order to ensure the views posted are acceptable to anyone who may read board. If you believe those rul Ive never thought this board represents Huddersfield Town . We're just fans of the club and certainly in terms of the Off Topic section, Huddersfield Town is of no relevance at all really. Id imagine there are forums for people who drive BMWs, but they're not representing the company BMW in any way. I think what religions say is relevant because in our society,, where Otium has just been judged,,, its not only acceptable for these mainstream religions to hold those same views, and for them to promote them to their millions of followers but also to actively and openly discriminate against people based on them. So if that is acceptable in our society for huge organisations like religions, then IMO coming down on an individual in such a manner for doing nothing different seems disproportionate and somewhat inconsistent . People are entitled to their views as you say. Only they're not clearly. I am not sure you have made a credible argument. I am sure that BMW drivers have a forum (forums likely) where they exchange views. If those views where in any way prejudicial or inflammatory do you think BMW would welcome that? Or would they distance themselves from that group? In the same way we are primarily here because we have one thing in common we support Huddersfield Town. I would add we are all proud to support Huddersfield Town and I am pretty sure we all take a degree of pride that the reputation our football club has overall (the reaction to the support we had in the Premier League is one manifest example of this). I completely agree that what religions, or any group for that matter, say is important in society. Society also has the opportunity to challenge and reject those views. In the same way Oti has made a statement some, perhaps most, find unacceptable. There are rules (feel free to debate them all you like) and those who administer have deemed he has broke those rules. He may, and were he able and I would expect him to, argue his case but for all the words written debating this is really what has happened. He is still entitled to his views it is just that he has been challenged and those views rejected as being appropriate on a public forum. There is a case for saying "allow him to express his views and be challenged" but at what point does the board (as a whole) look like it is tolerating prejudice and bigotry? It's a much wider debate (as this last few days has shown) but as I said originally, most of us know what is right and what is wrong. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 20, 2021 9:24:34 GMT 1
Posters are allowed to mock religions. If pointing out the absurdity and lunacy of religion and religious belief wasn't allowed, then many posters, myself included, would have been given life time bans a long time ago! I doubt even so much as a warning has ever been handed out, and rightly so. They obviously arent covered by this 'must not offend any group' rulebook. Religion is a choice, homosexuality is not, it's a crucial difference when arguing what is acceptable or not. If people continue to deny a plain truth then they have to take the consequences of their ignorance. Like I said, I agree with that. But I accept many other people dont. They think it is actually a lifestyle choice. I dont feel the right to forbid them from having that opinion and deeming it 'unnacceptable', even though I think its wrong. This attitude of 'you will think like I do, or you will face the consequences of your ignorance' is actually a deeply sinister road to go down. Isn't it condescending to think gay people are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought, from such a low-level and obscure example of homophobia? |
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Post by sapphireblue on Jul 20, 2021 10:29:20 GMT 1
Careful, El Mel will accuse you of trying to make him look bad. 🙄 Mate. Get over it. Re, the entire Otium situation:- Mate. Get over it. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 20, 2021 10:31:45 GMT 1
Religion is a choice, homosexuality is not, it's a crucial difference when arguing what is acceptable or not. If people continue to deny a plain truth then they have to take the consequences of their ignorance. Like I said, I agree with that. But I accept many other people dont. They think it is actually a lifestyle choice. I dont feel the right to forbid them from having that opinion and deeming it 'unnacceptable', even though I think its wrong. This attitude of 'you will think like I do, or you will face the consequences of your ignorance' is actually a deeply sinister road to go down. Isn't it condescending to think gay people are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought, from such a low-level and obscure example of homophobia? Research has found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) youth is significantly higher than among the general population. Why do you think that is? |
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Post by Champers on Jul 20, 2021 10:36:51 GMT 1
Otium himself has asked for no special treatment because of his condition. Despite this, he has been given more chances than any other poster would ever have received, and a huge factor in this was his condition. Given that he is in touch with some members here outside of DATM< I'm certain that if your main concern is to have a line of communication with him that can be arranged by you and those he is in touch with. The forum has 16000 members. Fewer than 200 of those members have voted in a poll that was never going to have any impact on the decision. If Otium wanted to keep posting, he was fully aware of a) the rules b) the consequences of breaking them and c) that expressing the view that homosexuality is deviant had already resulted in him getting a sanction. I wouldn't wish cancer on my worst enemy. I watched my mum die from it and my wife battle it, among many I've known with it. But, as callous as it sounds, it's entirely irrelevant as even Ron himself said it should be. and its not something I would use to describe homosexuals,but Is it such a terrible expression as to ban someone from the forum though? I firmly believe Oti should be reinstated on "compassionate grounds" though , we have both lost loved ones to cancer and personally I would do anything to help people with the disease . Would it be really be asking to much to rescind the decision made by the admins (who I am not criticising) and try and give Oti some happiness in possibly his last few weeks . Okay, let's say he was mistaken using that word and the admins gave him the benefit of the doubt on it. Was he also mistaken when he followed it straight up with "unhealthy"? What about when he described it as a poor "lifestyle choice", another mistake? Otium isn't stupid, far from it. For someone who is, by his own admission, too intelligent for Mensa, it would appear he makes quite a few mistakes, even after a significant number of warnings. So he's either a liar and thick as pig shit at the same time, or he's actually pretty clever and knew exactly what he was saying and the controversy it would cause. Either way, it's not good is it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 13:44:25 GMT 1
Like I said, I agree with that. But I accept many other people dont. They think it is actually a lifestyle choice. I dont feel the right to forbid them from having that opinion and deeming it 'unnacceptable', even though I think its wrong. This attitude of 'you will think like I do, or you will face the consequences of your ignorance' is actually a deeply sinister road to go down. Isn't it condescending to think gay people are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought, from such a low-level and obscure example of homophobia? Research has found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) youth is significantly higher than among the general population. Why do you think that is? It is far from my specialty, but I think I am correct to say there is a significantly higher level of suicide in the summer, in more affluent countries, among dentists; what correlation of cause & effect has been proven to be associated. Statistical associations in themselves are not evidence of cause. A good life appears (superficially) to cause suicide, while being sexually at variance to nature & evolution appears (superficially) to cause suicide. I think we (society) are in danger of making too many assumptions, perhaps influenced by good causes that begin as worthy, suppoerted by (perhaps psuedo) science but may end up being carried too far (antihumanity)? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 20, 2021 13:57:17 GMT 1
Like I said, I agree with that. But I accept many other people dont. They think it is actually a lifestyle choice. I dont feel the right to forbid them from having that opinion and deeming it 'unnacceptable', even though I think its wrong. This attitude of 'you will think like I do, or you will face the consequences of your ignorance' is actually a deeply sinister road to go down. Isn't it condescending to think gay people are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought, from such a low-level and obscure example of homophobia? Research has found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) youth is significantly higher than among the general population. Why do you think that is? Hatred of themselves ( maybe they are religious so they have that going on in their head that god hates them ?) Negative reaction of family and friends ie bringing shame on the family etc, would be the biggest Id imagine. You think its likely that a cause would be stumbling onto the post of some random man you dont know on an obscure part of a football forum who thinks homosexuality is a perversion ? that really is some stretch IMO and like I said if anything the universal disagreement of literally everyone else in the thread would act as a positive message overall surely? Id imagine attempted suicide is higher amongst people with gambling addictions. Every so often on this site someone will post up some supposedly fantastic odds on something that shouldn't be missed. Should those posts be deemed unacceptable in case some addict is reading? Addictive personalities are not a lifestyle choice are they? |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 20, 2021 15:00:06 GMT 1
Research has found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) youth is significantly higher than among the general population. Why do you think that is? Hatred of themselves ( maybe they are religious so they have that going on in their head that god hates them ?) Negative reaction of family and friends ie bringing shame on the family etc, would be the biggest Id imagine. You think its likely that a cause would be stumbling onto the post of some random man you dont know on an obscure part of a football forum who thinks homosexuality is a perversion ? that really is some stretch IMO and like I said if anything the universal disagreement of literally everyone else in the thread would act as a positive message overall surely? Id imagine attempted suicide is higher amongst people with gambling addictions. Every so often on this site someone will post up some supposedly fantastic odds on something that shouldn't be missed. Should those posts be deemed unacceptable in case some addict is reading? Addictive personalities are not a lifestyle choice are they? My post wasn't suggesting that someone might read homophobic comments on here and immediately kill themselves, moreover it was an attempt to counteract your rather crass point that homophobia could be ignored on here because there's no reason to suspect gay people "are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought". If a gay member of the forum was in mental health crisis and visited the board and saw homophobic content, who's to say that might not be the straw that break's the camel's back? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 15:48:17 GMT 1
Hatred of themselves ( maybe they are religious so they have that going on in their head that god hates them ?) Negative reaction of family and friends ie bringing shame on the family etc, would be the biggest Id imagine. You think its likely that a cause would be stumbling onto the post of some random man you dont know on an obscure part of a football forum who thinks homosexuality is a perversion ? that really is some stretch IMO and like I said if anything the universal disagreement of literally everyone else in the thread would act as a positive message overall surely? Id imagine attempted suicide is higher amongst people with gambling addictions. Every so often on this site someone will post up some supposedly fantastic odds on something that shouldn't be missed. Should those posts be deemed unacceptable in case some addict is reading? Addictive personalities are not a lifestyle choice are they? My post wasn't suggesting that someone might read homophobic comments on here and immediately kill themselves, moreover it was an attempt to counteract your rather crass point that homophobia could be ignored on here because there's no reason to suspect gay people "are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought". If a gay member of the forum was in mental health crisis and visited the board and saw homophobic content, who's to say that might not be the straw that break's the camel's back? I'd like to put on record that me liking this post is more than just a simple "like". Full and frank response to the original post to come... Just getting that in there for the admins to consider when my post gets reported. Only joking - piss-weak arguments can be dismantled without resorting to personal insults. |
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Post by El Mel on Jul 20, 2021 16:28:20 GMT 1
Re, the entire Otium situation:- Mate. Get over it. Yep. Looks like we're going to have to accept democracy is dead on here and the admins are unquestionable. I'm looking forward to being a complete pain in the arse when the mood takes me in the future. ;-) |
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Post by Towner47 on Jul 20, 2021 17:14:21 GMT 1
Lol you are going to be your usual self then 😀
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Post by El Mel on Jul 20, 2021 17:16:17 GMT 1
Lol you are going to be your usual self then 😀 Yep, and don't dare question me, after all, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's my usual self. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 20, 2021 17:32:31 GMT 1
Hatred of themselves ( maybe they are religious so they have that going on in their head that god hates them ?) Negative reaction of family and friends ie bringing shame on the family etc, would be the biggest Id imagine. You think its likely that a cause would be stumbling onto the post of some random man you dont know on an obscure part of a football forum who thinks homosexuality is a perversion ? that really is some stretch IMO and like I said if anything the universal disagreement of literally everyone else in the thread would act as a positive message overall surely? Id imagine attempted suicide is higher amongst people with gambling addictions. Every so often on this site someone will post up some supposedly fantastic odds on something that shouldn't be missed. Should those posts be deemed unacceptable in case some addict is reading? Addictive personalities are not a lifestyle choice are they? , moreover it was an attempt to counteract your rather crass point that homophobia could be ignored on here because there's no reason to suspect gay people "are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought". If a gay member of the forum was in mental health crisis and visited the board and saw homophobic content, who's to say that might not be the straw that break's the camel's back? Yes it was and you've just done it again in that post in the last sentence. bit of a stretch in reality to say the least, as is my gambling addiction example, but perhaps we should ban those too.. just in case. Ive never suggested the homophobia should be ignored. My whole point is that its an opinion and one that can and should be challenged. Not this mentality of ' you are wrong and here is your punishment for being wrong'. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 19:30:30 GMT 1
Religion is a choice, homosexuality is not, it's a crucial difference when arguing what is acceptable or not. If people continue to deny a plain truth then they have to take the consequences of their ignorance. Like I said, I agree with that. But I accept many other people dont. They think it is actually a lifestyle choice. I dont feel the right to forbid them from having that opinion and deeming it 'unnacceptable', even though I think its wrong. This attitude of 'you will think like I do, or you will face the consequences of your ignorance' is actually a deeply sinister road to go down. Isn't it condescending to think gay people are so desperately fragile they need shielding at any cost to the principles of freedom of speech or thought, from such a low-level and obscure example of homophobia? Okay. I’ve held off most of the day before replying to this shower of ill-informed, bigoted and frankly despicable bollocks, because had I done so earlier, my squeaky-clean DATM disciplinary record would be seriously under threat. It may yet be, because even after all these hours, my patience with your codswallop is being severely tested. Let’s start with the statement you farted out this morning: Oh boy, let’s break this down. First off, it’s one of the most jaw-droppingly idiotic statements I’ve ever read on here. And there’s a lot of competition. I’m staggered that fully-grown adults can’t comprehend the difference between discrimination against a group of people - whether on the basis of race, religion, sexuality, ethnicity, identity, gender or any other ways of segregating people - and the idea of individuals being personally offended. It’s rank idiocy. It’s not so much skipped-a-couple-of-years-of-school stupidity, but more-so someone who’s skipped a whole stage of their emotional development. It’s mind-blowingly ignorant. Second, I’m going to step back from calling you out on the language you used in this context, but it’s worth pointing out that attributing the idea of being “desperately fragile” to LGBTQ+ people could easily be interpreted as one of the following: 1. Nowt, it’s just an expression 2. Deliberate and overtly discriminatory language based on unfounded and lazy stereotypes of people of different and by implication "more sensitive" sexualities 3. An indicator of unconscious bias I’m stepping back on this one, because this one is likely really easy for you to weasel your way out of. In your mind, of course, yet many will see straight through you - whereas the rank stupidity of the post is pretty much indefensible. And, of course, you being you you’ll double-down and invoke the “I have a gay friend” defence. Your credibility is shot. Your mask has well and truly slipped. However if forced to choose, I’m going 3. Third, G was bang on: You’ve got no fucking idea about this, clearly, so let me spell this out to you. Coming to terms with one’s sexuality, very often involves something between emotional turmoil and a full-blown mental health crisis. It’s easier for grown-ups - but take it from me, it’s no walk-in-the-park as an adult. It’s fucking HARD for a teenager. You were a teenager once, right? Do you remember how hard that was emotionally - all those hormones flying around, those feelings of confusion and inadequacy? Throw in confusion about sexuality into that mix. Go on, just try to imagine it. For some prick on the the internet to dismiss someone feeling that way as “emotionally fragile” is a staggeringly insensitive thing to say. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. MANY people have killed themselves over these issues. As I pointed out on another thread, a friend of mine did, and I miss him terribly. How fucking dare you try to dismiss them as “emotionally fragile”. You heartless sod. Slapps, take a moment to reflect. Because you're doing yourself no favours whatsoever here. As for this bit: I dont feel the right to forbid them from having that opinion and deeming it 'unnacceptable', even though I think its wrong. ...well, I need say no more. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 20, 2021 20:25:07 GMT 1
As with a lot of your posts, I got a couple of lines into it and lost interest.
I got as far as 'despicable' and realised it would be heading down the usual condescending nonsense in a tantruming child style.
In amongst the abuse and sensationalism, you might even make decent points, but I dont have the patience to look for them.
Part of being a champion of tolerance is that you should be able to tolerate things YOU dont like, such as opposing opinions. You really do struggle with that.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 20, 2021 20:43:47 GMT 1
As with a lot of your posts, I got a couple of lines into it and lost interest. I got as far as 'despicable' and realised it would be heading down the usual condescending nonsense in a tantruming child style. In amongst the abuse and sensationalism, you might even make decent points, but I dont have the patience to look for them. Part of being a champion of tolerance is that you should be able to tolerate things YOU dont like, such as opposing opinions. You really do struggle with that. What a shame that you couldn't have the courtesy to read his post. You might have learned something. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 20:45:24 GMT 1
As with a lot of your posts, I got a couple of lines into it and lost interest. I got as far as 'despicable' and realised it would be heading down the usual condescending nonsense in a tantruming child style. In amongst the abuse and sensationalism, you might even make decent points, but I dont have the patience to look for them. Part of being a champion of tolerance is that you should be able to tolerate things YOU dont like, such as opposing opinions. You really do struggle with that. What a pathetic, cowardly response. "tantruming"? Nah, just dismantling your pathetic drivel point-by-point. Either own your posts or defend them, but dismissing a reasoned and considered response to your post because "you lost interest" shows you up for the absolute fraud that you are. Pitiful. |
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Post by El Mel on Jul 20, 2021 20:58:59 GMT 1
As with a lot of your posts, I got a couple of lines into it and lost interest. I got as far as 'despicable' and realised it would be heading down the usual condescending nonsense in a tantruming child style. In amongst the abuse and sensationalism, you might even make decent points, but I dont have the patience to look for them. Part of being a champion of tolerance is that you should be able to tolerate things YOU dont like, such as opposing opinions. You really do struggle with that. What a pathetic, cowardly response. "tantruming"? Nah, just dismantling your pathetic drivel point-by-point. Either own your posts or defend them, but dismissing a reasoned and considered response to your post because "you lost interest" shows you up for the absolute fraud that you are. Pitiful. Your posts are pretty difficult to respond to Hukkas. Might be worth considering making them shorter and more concise when you want to make a constructive point. Just my two penneth. |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Jul 20, 2021 21:02:50 GMT 1
What a pathetic, cowardly response. "tantruming"? Nah, just dismantling your pathetic drivel point-by-point. Either own your posts or defend them, but dismissing a reasoned and considered response to your post because "you lost interest" shows you up for the absolute fraud that you are. Pitiful. Your posts are pretty difficult to respond to Hukkas. Might be worth considering making them shorter and more concise when you want to make a constructive point. Just my two penneth. That’s funny because almost every post of yours is short but none of them are good. |
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Post by El Mel on Jul 20, 2021 21:08:33 GMT 1
Your posts are pretty difficult to respond to Hukkas. Might be worth considering making them shorter and more concise when you want to make a constructive point. Just my two penneth. That’s funny because almost every post of yours is short but none of them are good. Bit like your sex life chief. |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Jul 20, 2021 21:11:36 GMT 1
That’s funny because almost every post of yours is short but none of them are good. Bit like your sex life chief. 👍 |
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Post by BlueValour on Jul 20, 2021 21:18:51 GMT 1
From reading Otiums posts, he still has views common with older generations, I have no idea how old he is, but change takes time, and is generational, you wouldn't censor your granddad, so you shouldnt censor someone else's. Nonsense - I'm in my 70s and don't hold those views. I know plenty of people in their 60s, 70s and 80s who don't hold those views. Otium has previously stated that he is in his 50s! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 21:24:48 GMT 1
Sensible thing for admins to do, would be probably lock this thread.
You're not reinstating Otium and that's that. Don't let it get out of hand please.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 21:33:05 GMT 1
What a pathetic, cowardly response. "tantruming"? Nah, just dismantling your pathetic drivel point-by-point. Either own your posts or defend them, but dismissing a reasoned and considered response to your post because "you lost interest" shows you up for the absolute fraud that you are. Pitiful. Your posts are pretty difficult to respond to Hukkas. Might be worth considering making them shorter and more concise when you want to make a constructive point. Just my two penneth. Well, this is cute n'all - Slapps has a friend to step in to try to defend his honour, by trying to defend the bit about...ah wait, it's because the post's too long and not concise enough. Gotcha. Still, at least said friend has some valuable insight into a highly-charged, sensitive and difficult subject which affects people very profoundly: That’s funny because almost every post of yours is short but none of them are good. Bit like your sex life chief. Ah, okay. As you were. |
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Post by El Mel on Jul 20, 2021 21:39:07 GMT 1
Your posts are pretty difficult to respond to Hukkas. Might be worth considering making them shorter and more concise when you want to make a constructive point. Just my two penneth. Well, this is cute n'all - Slapps has a friend to step in to try to defend his honour, by trying to defend the bit about...ah wait, it's because the post's too long and not concise enough. Gotcha. Still, at least said friend has some valuable insight into a highly-charged, sensitive and difficult subject which affects people very profoundly: Bit like your sex life chief. Ah, okay. As you were. Ok I offered some constructive advice about your posting methods. You've turned into sexuality, and your sexuality. The thread was about otium, not you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 21:47:38 GMT 1
Well, this is cute n'all - Slapps has a friend to step in to try to defend his honour, by trying to defend the bit about...ah wait, it's because the post's too long and not concise enough. Gotcha. Still, at least said friend has some valuable insight into a highly-charged, sensitive and difficult subject which affects people very profoundly: Ah, okay. As you were. Ok I offered some constructive advice about your posting methods. You've turned into sexuality, and your sexuality. The thread was about otium, not you. What a load of disingenuous claptrap. I was responding to a post that was almost as homophobic as the post that was - and this can't be stressed enough - the last in a long line of posts that saw Otium banned, for repeatedly breaking the rules of the board. "Constructive advice". Oh, please. I can form a coherent and considered argument - can you? (This ends here - I've no desire to bore people with petty squabbles - Mel, quit it.) |
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Post by El Mel on Jul 20, 2021 21:52:34 GMT 1
Ok I offered some constructive advice about your posting methods. You've turned into sexuality, and your sexuality. The thread was about otium, not you. What a load of disingenuous claptrap. I was responding to a post that was almost as homophobic as the post that was - and this can't be stressed enough - the last in a long line of posts that saw Otium banned, for repeatedly breaking the rules of the board. "Constructive advice". Oh, please. I can form a coherent and considered argument - can you? (This ends here - I've no desire to bore people with petty squabbles - Mel, quit it.) I don't think you've had one coherent argument with anybody on here with the block quoting technique if I'm being honest mate. But if it suits you, carry on. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 20, 2021 22:45:53 GMT 1
That’s funny because almost every post of yours is short but none of them are good. Bit like your sex life chief. Somebody's Mrs has been talking |
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