Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 23,613
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 3, 2023 11:42:46 GMT 1
I watched a documentary on Netflix about point shaving in US college basketball in the 90s. Very interesting and shows how easy it is to corrupt people when large sums of money are involved. The sums of money available in the PL are massive these days. I’m not saying that VAR has been got at in any way, but the thought must have occurred to somebody with a dodgy moral compass……… What was the documentary called? I'd like to take a look.
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Oct 3, 2023 11:43:44 GMT 1
The problem is VAR has been introduced globally; I don’t believe for one second (unfortunately) that the PL will drop VAR, and part of that is because the PL wouldn’t want to be at variance with all the other so-called “elite”. I think the best we can hope for is that it isn’t introduced to the Championship and below.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 3, 2023 11:49:55 GMT 1
I watched a documentary on Netflix about point shaving in US college basketball in the 90s. Very interesting and shows how easy it is to corrupt people when large sums of money are involved. The sums of money available in the PL are massive these days. I’m not saying that VAR has been got at in any way, but the thought must have occurred to somebody with a dodgy moral compass……… Said it before, it wouldn’t surprise me to have massive fraud unearthed in football over the next few yrs. It’s all about the TV companies in bed with betting (Sky TV and Sky bet for instance). Why do you think there’s football on the box from lunchtime on a Saturday, all the way through until 8 or even 10PM? It gives them about 10 hours of solid punter time. Football is available to UK audiences 6 days of the week on most weeks as well. It’s not about the supporters any longer, they just package these things up in decent marketing and pull folk in for TV subscriptions and betting. Much better to have folk talking about your product on social media 24/7, controversy sells.
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Post by pilgrimterrier on Oct 3, 2023 11:57:57 GMT 1
I watched a documentary on Netflix about point shaving in US college basketball in the 90s. Very interesting and shows how easy it is to corrupt people when large sums of money are involved. The sums of money available in the PL are massive these days. I’m not saying that VAR has been got at in any way, but the thought must have occurred to somebody with a dodgy moral compass……… What was the documentary called? I'd like to take a look. Bad Sport a series of 6 I believe
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 3, 2023 12:01:23 GMT 1
I watched a documentary on Netflix about point shaving in US college basketball in the 90s. Very interesting and shows how easy it is to corrupt people when large sums of money are involved. The sums of money available in the PL are massive these days. I’m not saying that VAR has been got at in any way, but the thought must have occurred to somebody with a dodgy moral compass……… Part of the problem VAR has...when its just the official on the pitch, we can all accept that human errors will happen particularly when theyve just seen an incident once in real time. With VAR though, theyre not seeing it in real time, theyre seeing it in slow mo where they can freeze the image and watch many times from various angles etc etc...when they still make massive errors it opens them up to accusations that something must be bent. Remember when VAR was sold with the idea it would end controversy??
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Post by townarentbest on Oct 3, 2023 12:28:46 GMT 1
This one was bad - really bad. Worse than ours - a lot worse. This is the refs and PGMOL fucking up big style, completely out of their depth and now trying to cover things up and find a way to explain as best they can. If you can't understand the difference between this and ours then I'm staggered. Corruption? Bollocks. Simply a show of complete ineptitude and then scrambling around to try and minimise their image of incompetence. Reading the discussion and how it happened, its a simple mistake down to a lack of formal process in how they communicate - and blown out of all proportion. Remote VAR referees didn't know that the on field lino had raised his flag (the footage they have doesn't have the lino)...they quickly looked at the footage, demonstrated it was on-side, and then crucially repeated back "check complete" - ie - they agree with the decision made on field (which they thought had been that a goal had happened with no flag raised). Simple lesson to be learned that they need to adopt the comms strategy similar to as used in Rugby League, where when they go to the video, its restated what the on-field decision was, so its really clear and explicit that the video ref knows what they're saying they agree with....."checking possible off side, on field decision, No Try"
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Post by morrisraspass on Oct 3, 2023 12:37:07 GMT 1
This one was bad - really bad. Worse than ours - a lot worse. This is the refs and PGMOL fucking up big style, completely out of their depth and now trying to cover things up and find a way to explain as best they can. If you can't understand the difference between this and ours then I'm staggered. Corruption? Bollocks. Simply a show of complete ineptitude and then scrambling around to try and minimise their image of incompetence. I can see the difference, yes. And I'm not suggesting corruption. But I am suggesting that Liverpool's size has a lot to do with it, and we seem to piss or pants every time the FA or whoever is involved.
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bigtruck
Frank Worthington Terrier
[M0:0][N4:#bigtrucktone#]
Posts: 1,825
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Post by bigtruck on Oct 3, 2023 12:56:15 GMT 1
This one was bad - really bad. Worse than ours - a lot worse. This is the refs and PGMOL fucking up big style, completely out of their depth and now trying to cover things up and find a way to explain as best they can. If you can't understand the difference between this and ours then I'm staggered. Corruption? Bollocks. Simply a show of complete ineptitude and then scrambling around to try and minimise their image of incompetence. Reading the discussion and how it happened, its a simple mistake down to a lack of formal process in how they communicate - and blown out of all proportion. Remote VAR referees didn't know that the on field lino had raised his flag (the footage they have doesn't have the lino)...they quickly looked at the footage, demonstrated it was on-side, and then crucially repeated back "check complete" - ie - they agree with the decision made on field (which they thought had been that a goal had happened with no flag raised). Simple lesson to be learned that they need to adopt the comms strategy similar to as used in Rugby League, where when they go to the video, its restated what the on-field decision was, so its really clear and explicit that the video ref knows what they're saying they agree with....."checking possible off side, on field decision, No Try" Absolutely this. It’s what I’ve been saying all along. VAR should be there to confirm or change a refs decision. Ref signals VAR check. Says on field decision is Goal. Asks VAR to check offside. If it’s too tight to call you go with original on field decision. I just can’t fathom why football has made this so complicated.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 3, 2023 13:33:33 GMT 1
This one was bad - really bad. Worse than ours - a lot worse. This is the refs and PGMOL fucking up big style, completely out of their depth and now trying to cover things up and find a way to explain as best they can. If you can't understand the difference between this and ours then I'm staggered. Corruption? Bollocks. Simply a show of complete ineptitude and then scrambling around to try and minimise their image of incompetence. Reading the discussion and how it happened, its a simple mistake down to a lack of formal process in how they communicate - and blown out of all proportion. Remote VAR referees didn't know that the on field lino had raised his flag (the footage they have doesn't have the lino)...they quickly looked at the footage, demonstrated it was on-side, and then crucially repeated back "check complete" - ie - they agree with the decision made on field (which they thought had been that a goal had happened with no flag raised). Simple lesson to be learned that they need to adopt the comms strategy similar to as used in Rugby League, where when they go to the video, its restated what the on-field decision was, so its really clear and explicit that the video ref knows what they're saying they agree with....."checking possible off side, on field decision, No Try" Hadn't read too much about it other than on here, so wasn't aware of the above. Shockingly incompetent when you consider it was a simple miscommunication. But of course, those simple miscommunications shouldn't happen when the Refs are mic'd up & have direct contact with Stockley Park. I still think there's bias at play with VAR, but it would be interesting to see how much controversy there is across other major leagues, particularly in Europe. Are the PL unique in how they continually balls things up, or is it endemic in many other countries?
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Post by turbo2 on Oct 3, 2023 13:34:36 GMT 1
A system designed to help the big clubs get decisions at each end of the pitch.
Victims want a replay of the weekend game.
Didn’t sheff u get relegated when a perfectly good goal wasn’t given at villa park. We lost good points for a similar situation. Nothing said really.
These black and white decisions wrong and brushed under the carpet.
Personally I’d scrap it. Detest how it ruins the moment. Let refs run the game. If they made as many mistakes as the players we’d have had issues
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Post by townarentbest on Oct 3, 2023 13:41:21 GMT 1
Reading the discussion and how it happened, its a simple mistake down to a lack of formal process in how they communicate - and blown out of all proportion. Remote VAR referees didn't know that the on field lino had raised his flag (the footage they have doesn't have the lino)...they quickly looked at the footage, demonstrated it was on-side, and then crucially repeated back "check complete" - ie - they agree with the decision made on field (which they thought had been that a goal had happened with no flag raised). Simple lesson to be learned that they need to adopt the comms strategy similar to as used in Rugby League, where when they go to the video, its restated what the on-field decision was, so its really clear and explicit that the video ref knows what they're saying they agree with....."checking possible off side, on field decision, No Try" Absolutely this. It’s what I’ve been saying all along. VAR should be there to confirm or change a refs decision. Ref signals VAR check. Says on field decision is Goal. Asks VAR to check offside. If it’s too tight to call you go with original on field decision. I just can’t fathom why football has made this so complicated. And crucially, that VAR decision needs to be made based on realtime footage only, not super slow-mo. It should take less than 30 seconds review of real time footage from 2 or 3 angles to make a decision that is "that was a clear and obvious error (or not)". Spotting a minute technical infraction with the benefit of slow-mo is *not* providing a checkpoint against clear and obvious errors.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 3, 2023 16:53:12 GMT 1
Only way I could put this on here was make it into a tweet and then add it.
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Post by rothwellterrier on Oct 3, 2023 18:41:01 GMT 1
Here’s the audio
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bigtruck
Frank Worthington Terrier
[M0:0][N4:#bigtrucktone#]
Posts: 1,825
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Post by bigtruck on Oct 3, 2023 18:52:46 GMT 1
Absolutely this. It’s what I’ve been saying all along. VAR should be there to confirm or change a refs decision. Ref signals VAR check. Says on field decision is Goal. Asks VAR to check offside. If it’s too tight to call you go with original on field decision. I just can’t fathom why football has made this so complicated. And crucially, that VAR decision needs to be made based on realtime footage only, not super slow-mo. It should take less than 30 seconds review of real time footage from 2 or 3 angles to make a decision that is "that was a clear and obvious error (or not)". Spotting a minute technical infraction with the benefit of slow-mo is *not* providing a checkpoint against clear and obvious errors. I agree apart from maybe the ball going out or in/out of box for penalty maybe🤷🏼♂️
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Oct 3, 2023 18:57:46 GMT 1
The PGMOL can apologies and say sorry as much as they like The bottom line is you still don't get any points back that you have lost through one of their incorrect decisions.
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Post by turbo2 on Oct 3, 2023 19:04:24 GMT 1
Here’s the audio Wow. What a set of clowns. This is where rugby league is miles ahead. Stop the game. Give the decision and then ask for video to disagree. These idiots can hardly speak
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Oct 3, 2023 19:04:41 GMT 1
Here’s the audio Totally embarrassing, complete incompetence. PGMOL has nowhere to go after that.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 3, 2023 19:09:45 GMT 1
Unlucky, bin dippers. Oh dear. How sad. Nevermind.
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Post by markthehorn on Oct 3, 2023 19:12:02 GMT 1
They know they messed up big time here ! And was too late before it was noticed
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Post by Stewpot on Oct 3, 2023 19:13:32 GMT 1
Here’s the audio Wow. What a set of clowns. This is where rugby league is miles ahead. Stop the game. Give the decision and then ask for video to disagree. These idiots can hardly speak It really is not what I'd imagined it to be, on the monitors at Stockley Park. However it does explain a lot. Need moving out immediately and put on delivering HS2 duties, where their incompetence will blend in! 🙂
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 3, 2023 19:24:57 GMT 1
🤣🤣🤣
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Oct 3, 2023 19:50:30 GMT 1
After listening to the audio I feel for the guys. Total misunderstanding and happens all the time in all walks of life. As soon as they realised they knew it was a total f up. The game should have stopped again when it went out for a throw but don’t know the rules on stopping the game after it had re started.
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Post by 3Pipe on Oct 3, 2023 19:58:52 GMT 1
As a man who was once in charge of 125 tonnes of Butane for our brick kiln and whose son had just safely completed two legs of a long haul flight to Australia, I'm just grateful that these incompetent twats are kept the fuck away from anything really important.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 3, 2023 20:39:56 GMT 1
As a man who was once in charge of 125 tonnes of Butane for our brick kiln and whose son had just safely completed two legs of a long haul flight to Australia, I'm just grateful that these incompetent twats are kept the fuck away from anything really important. Can you imagine, seated on your plane looking forward to a few days in the Sun, and onto the plane in their captains uniforms, come Captain Moss and First Officer Tierney. Those slides would be out within 30 seconds…
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Post by 3Pipe on Oct 3, 2023 20:48:19 GMT 1
As a man who was once in charge of 125 tonnes of Butane for our brick kiln and whose son had just safely completed two legs of a long haul flight to Australia, I'm just grateful that these incompetent twats are kept the fuck away from anything really important. Can you imagine, seated on your plane looking forward to a few days in the Sun, and onto the plane in their captains uniforms, come Captain Moss and First Officer Tierney. Those slides would be out within 30 seconds… 😆 😬
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Oct 4, 2023 7:27:31 GMT 1
They know they messed up big time here ! And was too late before it was noticed Too late according to protocol and rules but not too late for common sense. Sadly, referees are all about the former at the expense of the latter. Darren England's mind just goes blank - he stops responding other than saying "what?", "eh?" and eventually "I can't do anything" and "Fuck!" The rest of the game must have been a blur to him - just totally consumed with "OMG what have I just done?"
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Oct 4, 2023 15:10:41 GMT 1
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Post by mosher on Oct 4, 2023 15:14:15 GMT 1
Loved the guy when he first arrived on these shores (despite who he was coming to manage) but he's become a (not very funny) parody of himself.
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Post by workshyfop on Oct 4, 2023 15:33:43 GMT 1
Loved the guy when he first arrived on these shores (despite who he was coming to manage) but he's become a (not very funny) parody of himself. No need to replay it. Just give Liverpool the points. It’s what they want. How many unfair decisions did Brighton get last season? Suddenly, because it’s them, they want the rules changed.
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Post by HalifaxTerrier on Oct 4, 2023 15:52:11 GMT 1
I really don't understand why the VAR lot didn't just stop the game and put the decision right. Even if it is against the rule book to do so surely people would have understood the reasons why and all could have been put right. The guy on the audio saying 'I can't do anything' just defies all common sense. Would Spurs have had any reasonable argument had play been stopped 30 seconds later and the goal given? The replays back-up the decision and the audio explains the error, it's just utter stupidity that got in the way.
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