Kasumu

[omegasupreme]

Apr 19, 2023 10:21:05 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 19, 2023 9:59:15 GMT 1 omegasupreme said:

Extremely harsh. He's probably our best central midfielder. With some good coaching he can be better than Hogg has been for us.

You think? It terms of tenacity perhaps. He works very hard and gets stuck in. Like that a lot about him.
Be nice but cant see him getting anywhere near Hoggs overall level though. As a footballer I think bottom end of championship is his limit.

Its frustrating because he keeps breaking through in excellent positions but just doesnt have the vision or ability to find the killer assist pass.

I think his tacking is superb and he’s quicker or crucially more agile than Hogg ever has been. I know this is only one episode of play but when he broke from midfield and put Diarra through the other night, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hogg successfully make an offensive pass like that (although I’m sure he must have done at some point). Speaking of Hogg If I remember correctly, he wasn’t particularly good for us when we first signed him under Robins I think (in fact his passing was absolutely bloody awful I think).

[overtonterrierspirit]

Apr 20, 2023 21:27:59 GMT 1 omegasupreme said:

Apr 19, 2023 10:21:05 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

You think? It terms of tenacity perhaps. He works very hard and gets stuck in. Like that a lot about him.
Be nice but cant see him getting anywhere near Hoggs overall level though. As a footballer I think bottom end of championship is his limit.

Its frustrating because he keeps breaking through in excellent positions but just doesnt have the vision or ability to find the killer assist pass.

I think his tacking is superb and he’s quicker or crucially more agile than Hogg ever has been. I know this is only one episode of play but when he broke from midfield and put Diarra through the other night, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hogg successfully make an offensive pass like that (although I’m sure he must have done at some point). Speaking of Hogg If I remember correctly, he wasn’t particularly good for us when we first signed him under Robins I think (in fact his passing was absolutely bloody awful I think).

And yet our travel plans to Sunderland were delayed to allow Hogg more time to recover from injury.
Maybe all of our previous Managers are wrong to recognise the importance of Hogg.
Maybe all the TV commentators are wrong as well.
In the second half of our last home game Hogg played a brilliant long range pass out to the left to set up an attack - so maybe you weren’t at that game?

[softboy]

Forget comparisons, lets looks at the merits of the lad. Gets stuck in, perhaps a bit too much at times. But as said before he created the chance for Diarra and also the goal Koroma. And their celebration is exactly what we need to see.

[Captainslapper]

Apr 20, 2023 21:27:59 GMT 1 omegasupreme said:

Apr 19, 2023 10:21:05 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

You think? It terms of tenacity perhaps. He works very hard and gets stuck in. Like that a lot about him.
Be nice but cant see him getting anywhere near Hoggs overall level though. As a footballer I think bottom end of championship is his limit.

Its frustrating because he keeps breaking through in excellent positions but just doesnt have the vision or ability to find the killer assist pass.

I think his tacking is superb and he’s quicker or crucially more agile than Hogg ever has been. I know this is only one episode of play but when he broke from midfield and put Diarra through the other night, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hogg successfully make an offensive pass like that (although I’m sure he must have done at some point). Speaking of Hogg If I remember correctly, he wasn’t particularly good for us when we first signed him under Robins I think (in fact his passing was absolutely bloody awful I think).

Hoggs getting on a bit now and has noticeably slowed down but hes still practically the first name on the team sheet for Warnock as he has been for every manager over the past 10 seasons
Kasumu isnt at the same level as him either with or without the ball even at this stage of Hoggs career IMO.

It was a good pass for that Diarra chance late on. Probably more difficult to get the weight of the ball right than a couple of easier ones he'd cocked up earlier in the game that should have also lead to great chances.
Pretty sure on their goal it was Kasumu who lost out in a challenge he really should have won in the build up to it. So to me he had a mixed game... some good, some bad.

IMO you've highlighted two myths about Hogg.. one that he never makes great offensive passes and the other that he wasnt very good when he first signed.
he improved into a really consistent player over the first few seasons and probably peaked under Wagner, but dont agree he wasnt generally very good to start with, despite a habit of playing the odd sloppy pass in dangerous positions that he had.

[goodbet]

When we signed Hogg I worked with a big Watford fan who really rated him. He told me he was comming to town before the story broke and said he was leaving for two reasons.
1) He wanted to be nearer his home
2) As Watford were going up he was not thought good enough for the Premier League by the then Watford manager

[richhtfc]

Apr 21, 2023 10:03:09 GMT 1 goodbet said:

When we signed Hogg I worked with a big Watford fan who really rated him. He told me he was comming to town before the story broke and said he was leaving for two reasons.
1) He wanted to be nearer his home
2) As Watford were going up he was not thought good enough for the Premier League by the then Watford manager

He was right imo

[Captainslapper]

Apr 21, 2023 10:18:41 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

Apr 21, 2023 10:03:09 GMT 1 goodbet said:

When we signed Hogg I worked with a big Watford fan who really rated him. He told me he was comming to town before the story broke and said he was leaving for two reasons.
1) He wanted to be nearer his home
2) As Watford were going up he was not thought good enough for the Premier League by the then Watford manager

He was right imo

I thought the midfield of Mooy, Billing and Hogg was very much PL quality when were there. All complimented each other very well,, all looked at home at that level,,and the only part of our team that ever really was PL quality.

[Sparrow]

I think Kasumu at the peak of his career will be a better player than Hogg at the Peak of his Career.

He is much more athletic and quicker than Hogg has ever been and he is a more forward thinking player.

Hogg has had a terrific career of that there is no doubt. And he has absolutely maxed out every ounce of ability he has, so credit to him.

Hogg 34 years of age, with just over 400 appearances at Premier League and Championship. A fantastic career that many would have loved to have had.

At 23 there stats are quite similar.

I think......Hogg had played 5 in the PL with Villa and 19 in the Championship with Portsmouth.

Kasumu has played 30 in the Championship with Town

[softboy]

I seem to think the initial issues around Kasumu were his injury record and whether he could get a consistent run without injury. Hopefully he can maintain his fitness as he is clearly good enough for mid table Championshio, if not better.

[richhtfc]

Apr 21, 2023 12:46:54 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 10:18:41 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

He was right imo

I thought the midfield of Mooy, Billing and Hogg was very much PL quality when were there. All complimented each other very well,, all looked at home at that level,,and the only part of our team that ever really was PL quality.

They did well as a three but for all his tenacious qualities he’s never been good enough in possession for me.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Apr 21, 2023 12:46:54 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 10:18:41 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

He was right imo

I thought the midfield of Mooy, Billing and Hogg was very much PL quality when were there. All complimented each other very well,, all looked at home at that level,,and the only part of our team that ever really was PL quality.

It was indeed.
As proved in our first season.

[omegasupreme]

Apr 20, 2023 21:59:33 GMT 1 overtonterrierspirit said:

Apr 20, 2023 21:27:59 GMT 1 omegasupreme said:

I think his tacking is superb and he’s quicker or crucially more agile than Hogg ever has been. I know this is only one episode of play but when he broke from midfield and put Diarra through the other night, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hogg successfully make an offensive pass like that (although I’m sure he must have done at some point). Speaking of Hogg If I remember correctly, he wasn’t particularly good for us when we first signed him under Robins I think (in fact his passing was absolutely bloody awful I think).

And yet our travel plans to Sunderland were delayed to allow Hogg more time to recover from injury.
Maybe all of our previous Managers are wrong to recognise the importance of Hogg.
Maybe all the TV commentators are wrong as well.
In the second half of our last home game Hogg played a brilliant long range pass out to the left to set up an attack - so maybe you weren’t at that game?

You've massively misunderstood the point I was making. I actually like Hogg, he's been a fantastic player over the years. That's why I am directly comparing to try and highlight where Kasumu could potentially be even better. Sounds as though you you were just in the mood for an argument..

[Captainslapper]

Apr 21, 2023 13:04:40 GMT 1 Sparrow said:

I think Kasumu at the peak of his career will be a better player than Hogg at the Peak of his Career.

He is much more athletic and quicker than Hogg has ever been and he is a more forward thinking player.

Hogg has had a terrific career of that there is no doubt. And he has absolutely maxed out every ounce of ability he has, so credit to him.

Hogg 34 years of age, with just over 400 appearances at Premier League and Championship. A fantastic career that many would have loved to have had.

At 23 there stats are quite similar.

I think......Hogg had played 5 in the PL with Villa and 19 in the Championship with Portsmouth.

Kasumu has played 30 in the Championship with Town

Well times on his side.
Its the same argument with Scott High.. that the age theyre at, there is potential for a lot of improving to be done before they reach their peak.
Much like High, Kasumu will have to improve a lot to become an established Championship level player IMO..particularly if he was ever to reach the levels Hogg achieved at his peak.

[Captainslapper]

Apr 21, 2023 13:38:34 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

Apr 21, 2023 12:46:54 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

I thought the midfield of Mooy, Billing and Hogg was very much PL quality when were there. All complimented each other very well,, all looked at home at that level,,and the only part of our team that ever really was PL quality.

They did well as a three but for all his tenacious qualities he’s never been good enough in possession for me.

Its about the partnership though. Complimenting each other. Mooy was never particularly good at ratting about to get the ball back...which was why he thrived next to a player like hogg.
The two combined, plus Billing, looked every inch a PL quality middle 3 IMO.

Midfielders who are good at everything arent going to be playing for us.. not for very long anyway.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Apr 21, 2023 14:07:19 GMT 1 omegasupreme said:

Apr 20, 2023 21:59:33 GMT 1 overtonterrierspirit said:

And yet our travel plans to Sunderland were delayed to allow Hogg more time to recover from injury.
Maybe all of our previous Managers are wrong to recognise the importance of Hogg.
Maybe all the TV commentators are wrong as well.
In the second half of our last home game Hogg played a brilliant long range pass out to the left to set up an attack - so maybe you weren’t at that game?

You've massively misunderstood the point I was making. I actually like Hogg, he's been a fantastic player over the years. That's why I am directly comparing to try and highlight where Kasumu could potentially be even better. Sounds as though you you were just in the mood for an argument..

Apologies if I misunderstood.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Apr 21, 2023 14:43:28 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 13:38:34 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

They did well as a three but for all his tenacious qualities he’s never been good enough in possession for me.

Its about the partnership though. Complimenting each other. Mooy was never particularly good at ratting about to get the ball back...which was why he thrived next to a player like hogg.
The two combined, plus Billing, looked every inch a PL quality middle 3 IMO.

Midfielders who are good at everything arent going to be playing for us.. not for very long anyway.

Exactly this.

[Sparrow]

Apr 21, 2023 14:34:14 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 13:04:40 GMT 1 Sparrow said:

I think Kasumu at the peak of his career will be a better player than Hogg at the Peak of his Career.

He is much more athletic and quicker than Hogg has ever been and he is a more forward thinking player.

Hogg has had a terrific career of that there is no doubt. And he has absolutely maxed out every ounce of ability he has, so credit to him.

Hogg 34 years of age, with just over 400 appearances at Premier League and Championship. A fantastic career that many would have loved to have had.

At 23 there stats are quite similar.

I think......Hogg had played 5 in the PL with Villa and 19 in the Championship with Portsmouth.

Kasumu has played 30 in the Championship with Town

Well times on his side.
Its the same argument with Scott High.. that the age theyre at, there is potential for a lot of improving to be done before they reach their peak.
Much like High, Kasumu will have to improve a lot to become an established Championship level player IMO..particularly if he was ever to reach the levels Hogg achieved at his peak.

Like a lot of the youngsters in our squad, let's hope they become better players than the senior players in the squad

[Captainslapper]

I think a lot of them will.

If we can keep them together,, and keep them developing, then I think the core of our side will be home grown in a year or two and it'll be a really good one.

Like the 'Young Guns' of 20 years ago but much much better.

[mosher]

Apr 21, 2023 14:55:13 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

I think a lot of them will.

If we can keep them together,, and keep them developing, then I think the core of our side will be home grown in a year or two and it'll be a really good one.

Like the 'Young Guns' of 20 years ago but much much better.

So long as the seasonal ad campaign hasn't got them dressed like the Village People.

Worthy, Nat and a couple of others looked well embarrassed in most of the pics 

[bells ringing :)]

Kasmu has a lot of potential , he has a lot of great attributes.

If we can keep him fit, he will progress in passing range for sure, i also think he will start chipping in with goals. He can get up and down the pitch so well, he has a bit of pace about him and a great engine.

Rembering this is his first season and also first season at this level, i would argue he was the best sigining of the summer.

He has also been used in a few different positions/ roles and not let the team down at all. The only signing we mad last summer or in January , who can even rival DK is Helik .

[Captainslapper]

Apr 21, 2023 15:17:51 GMT 1 bells ringing :) said:

Kasmu has a lot of potential , he has a lot of great attributes.

If we can keep him fit, he will progress in passing range for sure, i also think he will start chipping in with goals. He can get up and down the pitch so well, he has a bit of pace about him and a great engine.

Rembering this is his first season and also first season at this level, i would argue he was the best sigining of the summer.

He has also been used in a few different positions/ roles and not let the team down at all. The only signing we mad last summer or in January , who can even rival DK is Helik .

Rudoni is the best signing we made last summer by some way IMO and will go on to earn the club a load of money I reckon.

This is Kasumus first season at this level but not his first season.. he'd been playing for MK Dons for 2 or 3 years before coming here.. about 70 apps for them.

[richhtfc]

Apr 21, 2023 14:43:28 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 13:38:34 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

They did well as a three but for all his tenacious qualities he’s never been good enough in possession for me.

Its about the partnership though. Complimenting each other. Mooy was never particularly good at ratting about to get the ball back...which was why he thrived next to a player like hogg.
The two combined, plus Billing, looked every inch a PL quality middle 3 IMO.

Midfielders who are good at everything arent going to be playing for us.. not for very long anyway.

I think it was a bottom end PL middle 3 agreed. I think if Hogg was better on the ball it’d have been a mid table PL 3.

[Tinpot]

Apr 21, 2023 10:18:41 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

Apr 21, 2023 10:03:09 GMT 1 goodbet said:

When we signed Hogg I worked with a big Watford fan who really rated him. He told me he was comming to town before the story broke and said he was leaving for two reasons.
1) He wanted to be nearer his home
2) As Watford were going up he was not thought good enough for the Premier League by the then Watford manager

He was right imo

I agree.

Huddersfield is definitely nearer to Middlesbrough than Watford is.

[Tinpot]

Apr 21, 2023 15:05:07 GMT 1 mosher said:

Apr 21, 2023 14:55:13 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

I think a lot of them will.

If we can keep them together,, and keep them developing, then I think the core of our side will be home grown in a year or two and it'll be a really good one.

Like the 'Young Guns' of 20 years ago but much much better.

So long as the seasonal ad campaign hasn't got them dressed like the Village People.

Worthy, Nat and a couple of others looked well embarrassed in most of the pics 

Brahima Diarra the traffic cop, Pat Jones in Native American Head-dress, Jaheim Headley the construction worker and Jack Rudoni the GI.

Best advertising campaign ever!

[omegasupreme]

Apr 21, 2023 14:34:14 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 13:04:40 GMT 1 Sparrow said:

I think Kasumu at the peak of his career will be a better player than Hogg at the Peak of his Career.

He is much more athletic and quicker than Hogg has ever been and he is a more forward thinking player.

Hogg has had a terrific career of that there is no doubt. And he has absolutely maxed out every ounce of ability he has, so credit to him.

Hogg 34 years of age, with just over 400 appearances at Premier League and Championship. A fantastic career that many would have loved to have had.

At 23 there stats are quite similar.

I think......Hogg had played 5 in the PL with Villa and 19 in the Championship with Portsmouth.

Kasumu has played 30 in the Championship with Town

Well times on his side.
Its the same argument with Scott High.. that the age theyre at, there is potential for a lot of improving to be done before they reach their peak.
Much like High, Kasumu will have to improve a lot to become an established Championship level player IMO..particularly if he was ever to reach the levels Hogg achieved at his peak.

I’ll stick up for Kasumu but I think Scott High is absolutely terrible.

[Terrier Ramone]

Apr 21, 2023 14:43:28 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Apr 21, 2023 13:38:34 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

They did well as a three but for all his tenacious qualities he’s never been good enough in possession for me.

Its about the partnership though. Complimenting each other. Mooy was never particularly good at ratting about to get the ball back...which was why he thrived next to a player like hogg.
The two combined, plus Billing, looked every inch a PL quality middle 3 IMO.

Midfielders who are good at everything arent going to be playing for us.. not for very long anyway.

100% agree it's about the partnership, on our budget we could not have asked for a better 2 than Hoggy & Mooy. The bit I disagree with is that Billing, at that stage of his career offered promise & the occasional flash of brilliance but stopped us from being a quality middle 3. He has always been a bit of a luxury player & has developed into a Premier league quality midfielder now but at the time, we would have been better with the LOB of last year.

I have no doubt Mooy could've played in better teams(he looks such a good player at international level) but Hoggy was low end Premier quality, his passing was certainly not good enough to be a good Premier league player but he is an absolute hero of mine for what he has done for the club. He is the perfect example of someone making the very best of what natural talent he has been given. He is a warrior though & a great example for young pros to work hard & be committed to a team/club.

[Captainslapper]

Yeah agree, couldn't see Hogg in his prime at any thing above low end of the PL.
To be higher than that he'd have needed more technical ability and comfort in possession.

Think youre being a bit harsh on Billing. The stats told the story that he more than played his part in that middle 3 ( remember discussing this with Oti ). Covered more ground, won more aerial duels, had more shots, made more blocks.. than either of the other two.

Talking of Hogg.. has anyone heard anything about a testimonial? Hes about to complete his tenth season which was always the point a player got one.
Modern day player like him certainly wont need the money, but it would be nice to acknowledge his service and maybe use the game to raise funds for some charity he supports.

Hogg XI v Harry Arter XI, with Michael Oliver reffing so he can book him for some slight misdemeanour as became their custom.

Not been to many testimonials .. was at Boothy's.. before that I can only think of the Peter Fletcher / Dick Taylor combined one against Cloughy's forest.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Apr 22, 2023 11:19:03 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Yeah agree, couldn't see Hogg in his prime at any thing above low end of the PL.
To be higher than that he'd have needed more technical ability and comfort in possession.

Think youre being a bit harsh on Billing. The stats told the story that he more than played his part in that middle 3 ( remember discussing this with Oti ). Covered more ground, won more aerial duels, had more shots, made more blocks.. than either of the other two.

Talking of Hogg.. has anyone heard anything about a testimonial? Hes about to complete his tenth season which was always the point a player got one.
Modern day player like him certainly wont need the money, but it would be nice to acknowledge his service and maybe use the game to raise funds for some charity he supports.

Hogg XI v Harry Arter XI, with Michael Oliver reffing so he can book him for some slight misdemeanour as became their custom.

Not been to many testimonials .. was at Boothy's.. before that I can only think of the Peter Fletcher / Dick Taylor combined one against Cloughy's forest.

Agree with this post.
I thought Billing, Hogg and Billing were superb for us.
In fact so good that at that stage I found myself concentrating on watching the midfield areas more intensely than ever before.
Hogg the destroyer, passes to Mooy the quarterback who would look to release any player in a good position, or slow the game down if required.
Bloody perfection in my eyes.

Re Hoggy’s testimonial - I recall this being mentioned at the start of the season but I guess the calamities that followed caused this to be put on the back burner.

Hogg v Arter! That was a great encounter.

[Frankiesleftpeg]

Apr 22, 2023 11:52:21 GMT 1 overtonterrierspirit said:

Apr 22, 2023 11:19:03 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

Yeah agree, couldn't see Hogg in his prime at any thing above low end of the PL.
To be higher than that he'd have needed more technical ability and comfort in possession.

Think youre being a bit harsh on Billing. The stats told the story that he more than played his part in that middle 3 ( remember discussing this with Oti ). Covered more ground, won more aerial duels, had more shots, made more blocks.. than either of the other two.

Talking of Hogg.. has anyone heard anything about a testimonial? Hes about to complete his tenth season which was always the point a player got one.
Modern day player like him certainly wont need the money, but it would be nice to acknowledge his service and maybe use the game to raise funds for some charity he supports.

Hogg XI v Harry Arter XI, with Michael Oliver reffing so he can book him for some slight misdemeanour as became their custom.

Not been to many testimonials .. was at Boothy's.. before that I can only think of the Peter Fletcher / Dick Taylor combined one against Cloughy's forest.

Agree with this post.
I thought Billing, Hogg and Billing were superb for us.
In fact so good that at that stage I found myself concentrating on watching the midfield areas more intensely than ever before.
Hogg the destroyer, passes to Mooy the quarterback who would look to release any player in a good position, or slow the game down if required.
Bloody perfection in my eyes.

Re Hoggy’s testimonial - I recall this being mentioned at the start of the season but I guess the calamities that followed caused this to be put on the back burner.

Hogg v Arter! That was a great encounter.

So good you named Billing twice

Enough to make Oti turn in his grave.

[Terrier Ramone]

Hoggy certainly deserves a testimonial, he has been terrific over a long period of time for us.

Regarding Billing, I always liked him but I just think, at the time, he didn't offer what Hogg & Mooy did but you could tell (well most of us other than Oti ) he was going to be very good.