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Post by kennyk2 on Mar 9, 2023 8:22:31 GMT 1
Perhaps this is a negotiating ploy... there is an impasse, so let it out through various channels that you are considering putting the club in admin. Just to concentrate minds.
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Post by kennyk2 on Mar 9, 2023 8:24:13 GMT 1
A lot of know it all’s on this thread that can tell us all exactly how things have played out. Only issue being, they know the square root of fuck all. I'm sure the irony of you telling others they know the square root of fuck all is completely wasted on you. Life is short, make sure you spend as much time as you can on the internet arguing with strangers. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Mar 9, 2023 8:31:03 GMT 1
I'm sure the irony of you telling others they know the square root of fuck all is completely wasted on you. Life is short, make sure you spend as much time as you can on the internet arguing with strangers. Life expectancy in the UK is around 80 which is 10 years more than it was in the 1960s That gives 88000 hours for arguing on the Internet |
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Post by kennyk2 on Mar 9, 2023 8:33:38 GMT 1
Life is short, make sure you spend as much time as you can on the internet arguing with strangers. Life expectancy in the UK is around 80 which is 10 years more than it was in the 1960s That gives 88000 hours for arguing on the Internet You've just had your calculator out haven't you? |
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by prepare on Mar 9, 2023 8:34:00 GMT 1
Perhaps this is a negotiating ploy... there is an impasse, so let it out through various channels that you are considering putting the club in admin. Just to concentrate minds. a good point could be brinksmanship at play here but it does need sorting what ever the outcome sooner the better for all concerned |
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Post by cissystrutt74 on Mar 9, 2023 8:41:38 GMT 1
Life is short, make sure you spend as much time as you can on the internet arguing with strangers. Life expectancy in the UK is around 80 which is 10 years more than it was in the 1960s That gives 88000 hours for arguing on the Internet Does that factor in sleep and time you're supposed to be working and not arguing in t'internet? |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Mar 9, 2023 8:44:55 GMT 1
Life expectancy in the UK is around 80 which is 10 years more than it was in the 1960s That gives 88000 hours for arguing on the Internet Does that factor in sleep and time you're supposed to be working and not arguing in t'internet? People on here actually work? |
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Mar 9, 2023 8:51:12 GMT 1
Perhaps this is a negotiating ploy... there is an impasse, so let it out through various channels that you are considering putting the club in admin. Just to concentrate minds. a good point could be brinksmanship at play here but it does need sorting what ever the outcome sooner the better for all concerned Needs sorting out in lots of time for next season. We won’t have a manager and half a squad in six weeks’ time. Nearly 18 months since PH left. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 9:08:16 GMT 1
It would be very town up to go into administration as a calculated risk to push through a deal and end up being liquidated.Seriously though whilst I'd never want to see good people lose their jobs it does feel like the club needs rubbing out and starting again in many areas. I'll go to Emley or Everton to watch them regardless. We would get a team of injured administrators probably Looking at the way we sign players, we'd get the same admins we had in 2003 because they once worked for us. |
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Post by rockwall on Mar 9, 2023 9:16:26 GMT 1
I got pelters back in October for even suggesting we could go into administration this season.
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
That Gary Taylor fletcher will never make a footballer.....
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Mar 9, 2023 9:17:56 GMT 1
a good point could be brinksmanship at play here but it does need sorting what ever the outcome sooner the better for all concerned Needs sorting out in lots of time for next season. We won’t have a manager and half a squad in six weeks’ time. Nearly 18 months since PH left. Warnock talks a lot about being here to help and advise. I wonder if he has been brought in knowing its all but a lost cause and his job is to literally manage the playing side of things through impending off field chaos. If there's admin and potential wage deferrals or other financial difficulties on the way then the players will need a senior figure to support them. Also might mean that we go into next season with a more settled group than if we hadn't had that. |
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Post by El Mel on Mar 9, 2023 9:29:30 GMT 1
They might get something as part of the administration process, but DH could ultimately regain control of the club, or, he may have somebody interested in picking it up out of admin. And what about all the other creditors? We're going to fleece them just so Dean doesnt have to pay the Pure administrators what they think they're owed? It’s probably more about wrestling back control of a club that he has pumped millions into, and sold, but the new buyer didn’t pay for. Would you rather DH force the club into admin - the party that has long history of funding the club, or the Administrators for a guy who said he would, but didn’t? None of us know the current state of each creditors balance to the club of course, but hypothetically I’m guessing the club could bring payments to them up to date for those that they feel need protecting from the fall out of admin., |
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Post by runner76 on Mar 9, 2023 9:36:51 GMT 1
It’s never boring being a Town fan is it. I just want a club I can say I’m a proud fan of again. We appear to be going down in a tonne of flames, headlong into the financial abyss. I really couldn’t blame any potential buyers for looking at things currently and thinking ‘no chance’. That’s what worries me, that the ongoing wrangling is cutting off a lifeline of us being sold to start again. And to think it’s two decades since we were in administration. We never expected this to happen again. When will we and other football clubs, learn. 😞 Although I never thought two decades ago I’d see Town in the Premier League, so at least we’ve had some highs to compliment the lows…… |
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Post by belizian on Mar 9, 2023 9:52:07 GMT 1
Phil always came over to me as a dodgy geezer trying to make a quick buck (like his business's also appeared to be. Wrong not appeared to be but actually were.) . Dean a supposedly hard nosed shooter who'd business's actually did something. Looks like Phil's maybe turned him over though.
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Post by mosher on Mar 9, 2023 10:04:06 GMT 1
I have deleted the poor taste joke - and VLP's quote of it. No more please. Fook, I missed it Ditto, theres nowt wrong with bad taste jokes keithAM11532 VLP Fan Club dm the joke to us please  |
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Post by mosher on Mar 9, 2023 10:16:37 GMT 1
Does that factor in sleep and time you're supposed to be working and not arguing in t'internet? People on here actually work? Well, we turn up  |
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Post by efesodje23 on Mar 9, 2023 10:34:15 GMT 1
People on here actually work? Well, we turn up Wow. More than our first team do |
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Post by dugnet on Mar 9, 2023 11:05:26 GMT 1
As fans we can only watch and speculate as to what is happening, although I appreciate there are folk who know more than others.
Let's consider what we know, or think we know.
DH sells to PH, in a heavily NDA'd agreement, which basically sees him getting his club loans over a period of time. Most believe that this would have been funded by the Premier League parachute payments. It is entirely possible that PH's plan was to sell Pure at some point and then have the funds to support Town going forward.
Under his tenure as chairman PH lent HTAFC monies from Pure. He lent money to offset the impact of Covid (my assumption here - might be wrong). Was that because he didn't have his own cash or just an advised business transaction? It probably doesn't matter now. Unfortunately Pure went bust as a result of legislation changing and the bulk of the cases they were managing became invalid, or of limited value.
DH, as he still had a 25% share and a vested interest* stepped back into oversee the running of the club.
* Vested interest - he was owed cash but I also believe he wouldn't have wanted to see Town in administration or being unable to function (everyone is entitled to an opinion here).
The administrators of Pure are, quite rightly and as the people they represent would expect, are trying to secure the payment of the loan made to HTAFC. This will be used to pay off creditors. Those creditors have no interest in HTAFC and want their money back, not unreasonably.
It appears that DH is trying to negotiate a deal around this loan as any new owner is unlikely to want this claim on their books. I am not sufficiently knowledgeable but I can't see how a deal could be struck on this loan as HTAFC are a "going concern" with assets that could, in theory, be used to pay that loan back. I suppose the negotiation is; "you can have this, but if we have to go into administration you will only get that". How that works legally I don't know but I wouldn't blame Pure's administrators for playing hard ball. I am not sure what I think about putting HTAFC into administration to avoid paying that money back. On the face of it it seems morally questionable, at best. That said I suppose this is the murky world of corporate business?
So where does that leave us, those poor beggars who just want to watch their football team and hope it is run to give us the best chance of being successful? Well, and pretty much as it has been for the past 5 years or so, ignored observers who can do absolutely nothing to influence the mess that people have put us in.
I can accept there is some bad luck and some "force majeur" here but when you consider that we generated the best part of £300m in revenue since May 17 to be threatened with administration again is pretty shameful in my opinion. It is additionally shameful that we have paid for a respected and senior manager to try and rescue us from relegation (our footballing challenges are well documented but are probably understandable in the face of the shambolic backdrop that is the running of the club) but might tell him; "sorry Neil we are going to get a 12 point deduction, are you ok with that"?
I think what really depresses me is that there seems no easy solution to this mess. Apportioning blame is all very well but all we want is for someone to stop this utter fiasco and get back to being a football club again.
We are heading to League One, I am not happy about this but I can accept it as it is where we deserve to be. What happens next is anyone's guess, but it at some point the rot must stop. The problem is I am not sure when or who will actually steady the ship and set us on a new course.
The longer this continues the worse it will get. 16000 season tickets sold on the belief we had turned a corner. How many will be sold from the cul de sac we are now in?
It's utterly shameful and hopeless.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Mar 9, 2023 11:18:01 GMT 1
I'm sure the irony of you telling others they know the square root of fuck all is completely wasted on you. Life is short, make sure you spend as much time as you can on the internet arguing with strangers. Or commenting on those that do. Next. |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 9, 2023 11:42:06 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators?
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Post by Huddy Town Black Sox on Mar 9, 2023 11:46:01 GMT 1
I am struggling to understand those who think that if we go into admin now, we will have a points deduction this season, Will we heckers like it will be minus whatever next season.
Will potential buyers think bugger it, we will wait to buy after administration and buy both whats left of Town and a stadium on the cheap.
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by prepare on Mar 9, 2023 11:53:15 GMT 1
As fans we can only watch and speculate as to what is happening, although I appreciate there are folk who know more than others. Let's consider what we know, or think we know. DH sells to PH, in a heavily NDA'd agreement, which basically sees him getting his club loans over a period of time. Most believe that this would have been funded by the Premier League parachute payments. It is entirely possible that PH's plan was to sell Pure at some point and then have the funds to support Town going forward. Under his tenure as chairman PH lent HTAFC monies from Pure. He lent money to offset the impact of Covid (my assumption here - might be wrong). Was that because he didn't have his own cash or just an advised business transaction? It probably doesn't matter now. Unfortunately Pure went bust as a result of legislation changing and the bulk of the cases they were managing became invalid, or of limited value. DH, as he still had a 25% share and a vested interest* stepped back into oversee the running of the club. * Vested interest - he was owed cash but I also believe he wouldn't have wanted to see Town in administration or being unable to function (everyone is entitled to an opinion here). The administrators of Pure are, quite rightly and as the people they represent would expect, are trying to secure the payment of the loan made to HTAFC. This will be used to pay off creditors. Those creditors have no interest in HTAFC and want their money back, not unreasonably. It appears that DH is trying to negotiate a deal around this loan as any new owner is unlikely to want this claim on their books. I am not sufficiently knowledgeable but I can't see how a deal could be struck on this loan as HTAFC are a "going concern" with assets that could, in theory, be used to pay that loan back. I suppose the negotiation is; "you can have this, but if we have to go into administration you will only get that". How that works legally I don't know but I wouldn't blame Pure's administrators for playing hard ball. I am not sure what I think about putting HTAFC into administration to avoid paying that money back. On the face of it it seems morally questionable, at best. That said I suppose this is the murky world of corporate business? So where does that leave us, those poor beggars who just want to watch their football team and hope it is run to give us the best chance of being successful? Well, and pretty much as it has been for the past 5 years or so, ignored observers who can do absolutely nothing to influence the mess that people have put us in. I can accept there is some bad luck and some "force majeur" here but when you consider that we generated the best part of £300m in revenue since May 17 to be threatened with administration again is pretty shameful in my opinion. It is additionally shameful that we have paid for a respected and senior manager to try and rescue us from relegation (our footballing challenges are well documented but are probably understandable in the face of the shambolic backdrop that is the running of the club) but might tell him; "sorry Neil we are going to get a 12 point deduction, are you ok with that"? I think what really depresses me is that there seems no easy solution to this mess. Apportioning blame is all very well but all we want is for someone to stop this utter fiasco and get back to being a football club again. We are heading to League One, I am not happy about this but I can accept it as it is where we deserve to be. What happens next is anyone's guess, but it at some point the rot must stop. The problem is I am not sure when or who will actually steady the ship and set us on a new course. The longer this continues the worse it will get. 16000 season tickets sold on the belief we had turned a corner. How many will be sold from the cul de sac we are now in? It's utterly shameful and hopeless. first of all what a well balanced post and covers many aspects we will see what develops ps we are not in the position of the facts |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 9, 2023 11:58:10 GMT 1
Also, wasn't it 'only' 500k owed to Pure? Or am I missremembering? Surely whatever it is isn't worth administration?
Who would future scheduled player sale installments go to if in admin...? Administrators?
(forgive if daft questions, I've no idea)
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Post by space hardware on Mar 9, 2023 12:00:08 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators? Yes, it sounds like Hodgkinson put money into the club from his companies that subsequently went bust, giving the administrators a way to get their pound of flesh from Town. The honourable thing for Potless to do would be to put his hand into his own pocket and pay Kroll what they want, but I suspect there's as much chance of that happening as of plaiting piss. |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 9, 2023 12:08:58 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators? Yes, it sounds like Hodgkinson put money into the club from his companies that subsequently went bust, giving the administrators a way to get their pound of flesh from Town. The honourable thing for Potless to do would be to put his hand into his own pocket and pay Kroll what they want, but I suspect there's as much chance of that happening as of plaiting piss. Yeah that's what I was thinking. Hoyle has rightly had criticism, but has also footed bills. Phil needs to hold his hands up surely and walk away (remove it from his share sale valuation?) |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Mar 9, 2023 12:10:41 GMT 1
I am struggling to understand those who think that if we go into admin now, we will have a points deduction this season, Will we heckers like it will be minus whatever next season. Will potential buyers think bugger it, we will wait to buy after administration and buy both whats left of Town and a stadium on the cheap. Would you but a club that has spun out of control and is being relegated and then will have a points deduction in your first season? If I was looking for a club I would run off and find me another one to buy unless it came with a big bag of money. |
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Post by VLP Fan Club on Mar 9, 2023 12:12:48 GMT 1
As fans we can only watch and speculate as to what is happening, although I appreciate there are folk who know more than others. Let's consider what we know, or think we know. DH sells to PH, in a heavily NDA'd agreement, which basically sees him getting his club loans over a period of time. Most believe that this would have been funded by the Premier League parachute payments. It is entirely possible that PH's plan was to sell Pure at some point and then have the funds to support Town going forward. Under his tenure as chairman PH lent HTAFC monies from Pure. He lent money to offset the impact of Covid (my assumption here - might be wrong). Was that because he didn't have his own cash or just an advised business transaction? It probably doesn't matter now. Unfortunately Pure went bust as a result of legislation changing and the bulk of the cases they were managing became invalid, or of limited value. DH, as he still had a 25% share and a vested interest* stepped back into oversee the running of the club. * Vested interest - he was owed cash but I also believe he wouldn't have wanted to see Town in administration or being unable to function (everyone is entitled to an opinion here). The administrators of Pure are, quite rightly and as the people they represent would expect, are trying to secure the payment of the loan made to HTAFC. This will be used to pay off creditors. Those creditors have no interest in HTAFC and want their money back, not unreasonably. It appears that DH is trying to negotiate a deal around this loan as any new owner is unlikely to want this claim on their books. I am not sufficiently knowledgeable but I can't see how a deal could be struck on this loan as HTAFC are a "going concern" with assets that could, in theory, be used to pay that loan back. I suppose the negotiation is; "you can have this, but if we have to go into administration you will only get that". How that works legally I don't know but I wouldn't blame Pure's administrators for playing hard ball. I am not sure what I think about putting HTAFC into administration to avoid paying that money back. On the face of it it seems morally questionable, at best. That said I suppose this is the murky world of corporate business? So where does that leave us, those poor beggars who just want to watch their football team and hope it is run to give us the best chance of being successful? Well, and pretty much as it has been for the past 5 years or so, ignored observers who can do absolutely nothing to influence the mess that people have put us in. I can accept there is some bad luck and some "force majeur" here but when you consider that we generated the best part of £300m in revenue since May 17 to be threatened with administration again is pretty shameful in my opinion. It is additionally shameful that we have paid for a respected and senior manager to try and rescue us from relegation (our footballing challenges are well documented but are probably understandable in the face of the shambolic backdrop that is the running of the club) but might tell him; "sorry Neil we are going to get a 12 point deduction, are you ok with that"? I think what really depresses me is that there seems no easy solution to this mess. Apportioning blame is all very well but all we want is for someone to stop this utter fiasco and get back to being a football club again. We are heading to League One, I am not happy about this but I can accept it as it is where we deserve to be. What happens next is anyone's guess, but it at some point the rot must stop. The problem is I am not sure when or who will actually steady the ship and set us on a new course. The longer this continues the worse it will get. 16000 season tickets sold on the belief we had turned a corner. How many will be sold from the cul de sac we are now in? It's utterly shameful and hopeless. first of all what a well balanced post and covers many aspects we will see what develops ps we are not in the position of the facts I won’t bother digging out your post other day but seem to remember you saying we won’t be going into admin and you know that to be true…. |
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Mar 9, 2023 12:13:47 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators? It's just the shares. All 3 parties agreed a fee in May 2022. That deal expired without money changing hands. A renegotiated deal has been agreed between the 2 owners but the 3rd party as yet won't agree. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Mar 9, 2023 12:16:37 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators? It's just the shares. All 3 parties agreed a fee in May 2022. That deal expired without money changing hands. A renegotiated deal has been agreed between the 2 owners but the 3rd party as yet won't agree. Therefroe sticking the club into admin would take the third party out ? |
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Post by runner76 on Mar 9, 2023 12:17:57 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators? It's just the shares. All 3 parties agreed a fee in May 2022. That deal expired without money changing hands. A renegotiated deal has been agreed between the 2 owners but the 3rd party as yet won't agree. So it's the 3rd party we should be bashing, not Phil and Dean?..... |
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