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Post by terriers2000 on Mar 9, 2023 14:27:47 GMT 1
Has Karen Jagger (football administration manager) got anything to do with this?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 14:48:25 GMT 1
Admin is potentially the only option left to sort this mess out, the PURE admins will not accept the deal that has been offered and believe they are entitled to a lot more money especially if a sale goes through.
DH would be the only person that could realistically purchase the club from the admins and a large part of what he pays the admins to buy back the club would actually go into his pocket as the main creditor or an agreement to write this off and gain full control this would allow DH to sell the club and receive the full money from any sale. People say why can’t the admins sell to the new buyer technically they can but it’s really not realistic as most of what they pay would need to go to DH anyway and at that point the new owner would own a football club without a training ground and without a stadium.
It’s the greedy PURE admins that are currently leading this towards admin by not agreeing a deal now.
Currently PH and DH are not to blame for this part, PH is very much to blame for spending money he didn’t have, and DH is very much to blame for selling to PH in the first place. But as far as going into administration this can only be blamed on pure admins and they can stop it by agreeing the deal on the table, which financially is now the best result they can get.
As said before it’s a massive mess and in reality has really messed up the on field this season as well as the off field this needs sorting and one way or another in the next 2-3 weeks it will be sorted and a much clearer picture will be revealed. Unfortunately nobody knows which picture will be revealed but all options will clean up the current ownership and allow HTAFC to move forward.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Mar 9, 2023 14:51:17 GMT 1
Since we gained promotion in May 2017 we received over £375,000,000 in Premier league TV Money, Prize money & Equal Share, Parachute payments and player sales (OK not all of that has been received yet). Add in the other income we've had since then and it'll be £450m+ £450,000,000 coming into the club in just under 6 years and there's talk of Administration!! Indeed the first mention of Administration was October/November 2021 in those program notes. Well done to all involved But don't forget, if you're not happy with it, you're spoiled and entitled. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 14:55:59 GMT 1
£450m and we don't own our stadium or training facility, we have got a squad on a league one budget that would struggle in league one and our ladies get to buy their own kit and training gear, some legacy that! Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. Just for accuracy, we do own our training facility.. just not the land its on. |
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Post by H6dds on Mar 9, 2023 14:56:44 GMT 1
£450m and we don't own our stadium or training facility, we have got a squad on a league one budget that would struggle in league one and our ladies get to buy their own kit and training gear, some legacy that! Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. you mean the same brighton that could potenitally play champions league football next season? the same brighton that owns their stadium and training ground (of which both are state of the art top premier league level as opposed to "our" stadium that needs multi million investment and "our" training ground which we did end up investing about £2m in instead of the £10-20m or whatever was first quoted)? the same brighton that have a top quality squad with at least 5 players they could sell for £50m+ if they had to raise funds? |
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Post by space hardware on Mar 9, 2023 14:56:46 GMT 1
Admin is potentially the only option left to sort this mess out, the PURE admins will not accept the deal that has been offered and believe they are entitled to a lot more money especially if a sale goes through. DH would be the only person that could realistically purchase the club from the admins and a large part of what he pays the admins to buy back the club would actually go into his pocket as the main creditor or an agreement to write this off and gain full control this would allow DH to sell the club and receive the full money from any sale. People say why can’t the admins sell to the new buyer technically they can but it’s really not realistic as most of what they pay would need to go to DH anyway and at that point the new owner would own a football club without a training ground and without a stadium. It’s the greedy PURE admins that are currently leading this towards admin by not agreeing a deal now. Currently PH and DH are not to blame for this part, PH is very much to blame for spending money he didn’t have, and DH is very much to blame for selling to PH in the first place. But as far as going into administration this can only be blamed on pure admins and they can stop it by agreeing the deal on the table, which financially is now the best result they can get. As said before it’s a massive mess and in reality has really messed up the on field this season as well as the off field this needs sorting and one way or another in the next 2-3 weeks it will be sorted and a much clearer picture will be revealed. Unfortunately nobody knows which picture will be revealed but all options will clean up the current ownership and allow HTAFC to move forward. They have a job to do on behalf of the people owed money by Potless. Not sure they can be called greedy in those circumstances. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 14:57:53 GMT 1
Since we gained promotion in May 2017 we received over £375,000,000 in Premier league TV Money, Prize money & Equal Share, Parachute payments and player sales (OK not all of that has been received yet). Add in the other income we've had since then and it'll be £450m+ £450,000,000 coming into the club in just under 6 years and there's talk of Administration!! Indeed the first mention of Administration was October/November 2021 in those program notes. Well done to all involved But don't forget, if you're not happy with it, you're spoiled and entitled. Yea thats right.. not being happy about that is exactly what makes people spoilt and entitled.  |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 14:59:42 GMT 1
Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. you mean the same brighton that could potenitally play champions league football next season? the same brighton that owns their stadium and training ground (of which both are state of the art top premier league level as opposed to "our" stadium that needs multi million investment and "our" training ground which we did end up investing about £2m in instead of the £10-20m or whatever was first quoted)? the same brighton that have a top quality squad with at least 5 players they could sell for £50m+ if they had to raise funds? Yup thats them. They've spent a hell of a lot more money, but they've made far better decisions too. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Mar 9, 2023 15:04:29 GMT 1
Whilst it’s a relatively small amount, I’m not sure it’s amount that he can feasibly pay. Which is partly why the club should never have been sold to someone with so little liquid cash. Yeah but he "made loads of good decisions" TBF there's a difference between making good decisions and having enough money to run a football club. But the first and only decision he should have made is "walkaway, I don't have enough liquid capital for this at this time". DH knew though that PH's ego would takeover and PH knew he very likely wouldn't get another chance to own HTFC. So here we are, HTFC out the window and ego's burning the place down. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 15:07:40 GMT 1
Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. Just for accuracy, we do own our training facility.. just not the land its on. But this is irrelevant if we go into admin as the agreement between DH and HTAFC for the lease of the land would be null and void meaning the club would not have a training ground without a purchase of the land or a new agreement |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 15:13:15 GMT 1
Just for accuracy, we do own our training facility.. just not the land its on. But this is irrelevant if we go into admin as the agreement between DH and HTAFC for the lease of the land would be null and void meaning the club would not have a training ground without a purchase of the land or a new agreement If we go into admin the administrators could sell off the clubs assets ( including canalside ) to settle any debts to creditors. I was just pointing out we do actually own the training complex because someone had said we dont. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Mar 9, 2023 15:14:02 GMT 1
£450m and we don't own our stadium or training facility, we have got a squad on a league one budget that would struggle in league one and our ladies get to buy their own kit and training gear, some legacy that! Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. You are absolutely correct that there is a high level of spend associated with being a premier league club and pretty much every single Premier League and Championship club have massive debts. But come on......£450,000,000 has been received in the last 6 seasons and we're discussing the possibilities of the club going into Administration. DH stated back in Oct/Nov of 2021 that the club would have gone into Administration had he not stepped back in If, the day after the Wembley final win I'd have told you that in November 2021 would be reading program notes containing the words, Administration being a real possibility or that on 9th March 2023 you'd be on DATM reading about and commenting on a thread linking Town with Administration, you'd be telling me I was crazy and DH would ensure that going into the PL would set the club up for years.......I think most of us would. Yes we had to spend a lot to try and compete in the Premier League. But honestly did you think you'd be here today reading about and commenting on a thread about Administration? The people who have presided over the running of the club over the last 6 years have not done the best of jobs really......Or perhaps you think differently? |
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Post by stinkypete on Mar 9, 2023 15:14:45 GMT 1
Lose on Saturday (which we will) administration will look more and more appealing from a football perspective!
Take the points deduction this season, we then know 100% which league we can plan for, potential new owners can get their plans in place (if administration speeds up the sale), start next season with a complete new slate.
New owners, new players, new manager, complete set of new coaches, physios job lot. Start again.
Sadly from a non football perspective, smaller businesses will suffer, but at the end of the day I don’t have an interest in Huddersfield Town because of the small businesses it supports I have an interest and support my club in the hope they can be successful.
If it takes administration to sort this mess then so be it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 15:19:47 GMT 1
But this is irrelevant if we go into admin as the agreement between DH and HTAFC for the lease of the land would be null and void meaning the club would not have a training ground without a purchase of the land or a new agreement If we go into admin the administrators could sell off the clubs assets ( including canalside ) to settle any debts to creditors. I was just pointing out we do actually own the training complex because someone had said we dont. Sorry but any admins put in charge can not relay sell the training ground building, technically I suppose they can but they are worthless if any new owner doesn’t have an agreement to use the land, DH could just flatten them on his own land. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Mar 9, 2023 15:27:12 GMT 1
And some people scoff when people say the glut of money sloshing around the game is a big part of the problem.
The top 2 divisions of the English leagues are heading towards a US style franchise arrangement. How much news about these clubs is now about the owners?
Meanwhile, there are scores and scores of reasonably average players earning more in comparative terms than the likes of George Best. They’re taking far more out of the game than they arguably put into it.
I might be over simplifying things in my view, but when you see an established club like Liverpool making £7.5m profit before tax, how much is going out of that club to players and agents? I’ve said before that it needs a really big name to go bust before people wake up to what modern football is all about, but sadly I think they’ll keep this Ponzi scheme running for a few years yet.
Town are being held to ransom by this process, partly because the people involved are driven by greed, pound signs in their eyes.
Had we not achieved promotion to the PL, would we be sat here discussing this today?
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 15:46:34 GMT 1
If we go into admin the administrators could sell off the clubs assets ( including canalside ) to settle any debts to creditors. I was just pointing out we do actually own the training complex because someone had said we dont. Sorry but any admins put in charge can not relay sell the training ground building, technically I suppose they can but they are worthless if any new owner doesn’t have an agreement to use the land, DH could just flatten them on his own land. Yeah it probably is worthless to anyone but HTFC.. who else would buy it? And like you say its unusable unless you can agree a deal with the landowner ( Hoyle ). But the admins could sell them if they had a viable buyer. Same with the 40% KSDL shares. Who would buy them other that HTFC? Property developer maybe, thinking of the surrounding land. We'd sell player assets first you'd think... Thomas, Nicholls, Camara, Helik, Rudoni, Jackson etc |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Mar 9, 2023 15:50:01 GMT 1
40% is not a controlling share either Slapps, so it’s not much of an incentive to people if they’re always going to be outvoted.
I thought KSDL were stony as well though?
I guess you could look back at our current predicament and go back years to work out how the laws of unintended consequences has panned out.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 15:53:08 GMT 1
Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. You are absolutely correct that there is a high level of spend associated with being a premier league club and pretty much every single Premier League and Championship club have massive debts. But come on......£450,000,000 has been received in the last 6 seasons and we're discussing the possibilities of the club going into Administration. DH stated back in Oct/Nov of 2021 that the club would have gone into Administration had he not stepped back in If, the day after the Wembley final win I'd have told you that in November 2021 would be reading program notes containing the words, Administration being a real possibility or that on 9th March 2023 you'd be on DATM reading about and commenting on a thread linking Town with Administration, you'd be telling me I was crazy and DH would ensure that going into the PL would set the club up for years.......I think most of us would. Yes we had to spend a lot to try and compete in the Premier League. But honestly did you think you'd be here today reading about and commenting on a thread about Administration? The people who have presided over the running of the club over the last 6 years have not done the best of jobs really......Or perhaps you think differently? Its shocking but Im surprised youre surprised. It seems no matter how much prem league clubs get,, (or championship clubs to a lesser degree ) , they spend every last penny on players, wages, agents, costs, etc... and the rest! Think where Town differed from others is that we must have spent something like £120m on transfer fees for players with our PL money, but recouped about £20m of it when they all left. thats where our PL financial legacy went up in smoke. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 15:54:25 GMT 1
40% is not a controlling share either Slapps, so it’s not much of an incentive to people if they’re always going to be outvoted. I thought KSDL were stony as well though? I guess you could look back at our current predicament and go back years to work out how the laws of unintended consequences has panned out. Yeah doubt anyone would buy our 40% unless they did a deal with the egg chasers to get their 20% at the same time. |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Mar 9, 2023 15:56:37 GMT 1
But come on......£450,000,000 has been received in the last 6 seasons and we're discussing the possibilities of the club going into Administration. DH stated back in Oct/Nov of 2021 that the club would have gone into Administration had he not stepped back in If, the day after the Wembley final win I'd have told you that in November 2021 would be reading program notes containing the words, Administration being a real possibility or that on 9th March 2023 you'd be on DATM reading about and commenting on a thread linking Town with Administration, you'd be telling me I was crazy and DH would ensure that going into the PL would set the club up for years.......I think most of us would. I'm still gobsmacked when I think about the colossal amount of money we have wasted/ has disappeared since we were promoted to the Premier League. There is no way our club should be in this mess. It can only be put down to it being a massive failure by those running the club. Total ineptitude. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 16:16:25 GMT 1
Sorry but any admins put in charge can not relay sell the training ground building, technically I suppose they can but they are worthless if any new owner doesn’t have an agreement to use the land, DH could just flatten them on his own land. Yeah it probably is worthless to anyone but HTFC.. who else would buy it? And like you say its unusable unless you can agree a deal with the landowner ( Hoyle ). But the admins could sell them if they had a viable buyer. Same with the 40% KSDL shares. Who would buy them other that HTFC? Property developer maybe, thinking of the surrounding land. We'd sell player assets first you'd think... Thomas, Nicholls, Camara, Helik, Rudoni, Jackson etc sorry I dont think you are understanding. They can sell the training ground buildings yes but only for zero value without a valid agreement in place with the land owner without such agreement the buidlings are worthless, as DH could basically say he wants 15million for the land if they want to use it. my main point is the training ground has zero value to anyone buying the club from Admins except DH therefore it is very likley that the only person able or wanting to buy the club from any Admins would be DH. 40% KSDL Shares I am sure DH would buy these also (-; We would not sell the palyer assits as they are not available for sale outside of the transfer window and a deal could be reached before window is open again, as long as we pay them all in full there contracts are still valid. I believe we will all know more very soon and I very much hope that it is not administration because if it is then that means a more workable deal for all involved was not able to be agreed upon by the PURE Admins. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Mar 9, 2023 16:17:39 GMT 1
But come on......£450,000,000 has been received in the last 6 seasons and we're discussing the possibilities of the club going into Administration. DH stated back in Oct/Nov of 2021 that the club would have gone into Administration had he not stepped back in If, the day after the Wembley final win I'd have told you that in November 2021 would be reading program notes containing the words, Administration being a real possibility or that on 9th March 2023 you'd be on DATM reading about and commenting on a thread linking Town with Administration, you'd be telling me I was crazy and DH would ensure that going into the PL would set the club up for years.......I think most of us would. I'm still gobsmacked when I think about the colossal amount of money we have wasted/ has disappeared since we were promoted to the Premier League. There is no way our club should be in this mess. It can only be put down to it being a massive failure by those running the club. Total ineptitude. Do you ever think other clubs have been equally profligate? Weren’t Sunderland in deep shit, and I think they’d had a few more seasons in the PL than we had. It sounds a lot, but when you work through it all, some of that spend will have been in an attempt to keep up with the Jones’s. I wonder if Lee Clark was given more support in L1 than Wagner or even Corberan were given in the Championship? (excluding DW’s 2nd season in the PL of course) Throwing money at something never guarantees success, it’s the nature of casino football that the PL has introduced into the EFL over the last few yrs. it always used to be about getting promoted and pitting your wits against bigger teams, the financial incentive wasn’t ever as big a thing as it is nowadays. |
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Post by Ibiza Town on Mar 9, 2023 16:30:52 GMT 1
Can someone explain Phil's role in negotiations if the Pure administrators seem to be the problem now? Am I right in thinking Dean has to pay Phil for shares but also for the debt PH placed on the club via administrators? It's just the shares. All 3 parties agreed a fee in May 2022. That deal expired without money changing hands. A renegotiated deal has been agreed between the 2 owners but the 3rd party as yet won't agree. As a matter of interest, did that agreed deal expire before the play-off final or after ? |
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Post by royrace on Mar 9, 2023 16:44:53 GMT 1
Admin is potentially the only option left to sort this mess out, the PURE admins will not accept the deal that has been offered and believe they are entitled to a lot more money especially if a sale goes through. DH would be the only person that could realistically purchase the club from the admins and a large part of what he pays the admins to buy back the club would actually go into his pocket as the main creditor or an agreement to write this off and gain full control this would allow DH to sell the club and receive the full money from any sale. People say why can’t the admins sell to the new buyer technically they can but it’s really not realistic as most of what they pay would need to go to DH anyway and at that point the new owner would own a football club without a training ground and without a stadium. It’s the greedy PURE admins that are currently leading this towards admin by not agreeing a deal now. Currently PH and DH are not to blame for this part, PH is very much to blame for spending money he didn’t have, and DH is very much to blame for selling to PH in the first place. But as far as going into administration this can only be blamed on pure admins and they can stop it by agreeing the deal on the table, which financially is now the best result they can get. As said before it’s a massive mess and in reality has really messed up the on field this season as well as the off field this needs sorting and one way or another in the next 2-3 weeks it will be sorted and a much clearer picture will be revealed. Unfortunately nobody knows which picture will be revealed but all options will clean up the current ownership and allow HTAFC to move forward. Sorry but whats the link between Hodgkinsons companies that went bust and his 75% ownership of HTAFC? In my simple mind he owned the club personally or through a separate company so whats the link to his legal companies that are in admin? Presumably its some sort of loan to the club or to finance the purchase but if it is how can it be bigger than the value of his 75% share? Surely Dean would buy the 75% back and a proportion of that would go into paying back any loans to the companies in admin and that money would be used to pay debts owed by his companies? So is the price of the 75% that Dean is buying back not enough to pay back the loan or is there an argument surrounding the price for the 75%? Surely it would be more than enough to pay back any loan? I guess from an admin perspective if the club owes those companies £2M for example then they will understandably want the £2M back. So is the issue that the 75% isn't worth enough to pay back the loan or is it that it wouldn't leave enough left after the loan was paid to appease whoever? Excuse my ignorance but I dont understand the link between the companies in admin and Dean buying back the 75%. Surely a loan is a loan and needs to be paid in full whatever that figure is regardless of whether the company that the money is owed to is in admin? |
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Post by royrace on Mar 9, 2023 16:48:02 GMT 1
It's just the shares. All 3 parties agreed a fee in May 2022. That deal expired without money changing hands. A renegotiated deal has been agreed between the 2 owners but the 3rd party as yet won't agree. As a matter of interest, did that agreed deal expire before the play-off final or after ? The obvious question is why the hell did they let the agreed deal expire!? I guess it perhaps depended on the division we ended up in but surely they would have a deal for each potential outcome. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 16:48:16 GMT 1
You are absolutely correct that there is a high level of spend associated with being a premier league club and pretty much every single Premier League and Championship club have massive debts. But come on......£450,000,000 has been received in the last 6 seasons and we're discussing the possibilities of the club going into Administration. DH stated back in Oct/Nov of 2021 that the club would have gone into Administration had he not stepped back in If, the day after the Wembley final win I'd have told you that in November 2021 would be reading program notes containing the words, Administration being a real possibility or that on 9th March 2023 you'd be on DATM reading about and commenting on a thread linking Town with Administration, you'd be telling me I was crazy and DH would ensure that going into the PL would set the club up for years.......I think most of us would. Yes we had to spend a lot to try and compete in the Premier League. But honestly did you think you'd be here today reading about and commenting on a thread about Administration? The people who have presided over the running of the club over the last 6 years have not done the best of jobs really......Or perhaps you think differently? Its shocking but Im surprised youre surprised. It seems no matter how much prem league clubs get,, (or championship clubs to a lesser degree ) , they spend every last penny on players, wages, agents, costs, etc... and the rest! Think where Town differed from others is that we must have spent something like £120m on transfer fees for players with our PL money, but recouped about £20m of it when they all left.
thats where our PL financial legacy went up in smoke.This bothers me; the narrative is incorrect. 3m - Malone 5m - Wells 5m - Smith 5m - Mooy 5m - Kongolo 5m - Mounie 10m - Ince 10m - Obrien/Toffolo 16m Grant 16m Billing There's 80m alone.. plus the couple of million here and there for Bacuna, Sobhi etc etc Yes we lost money on these players but the net spend wasn't that bad - 40m loss on players in 6 years but 450m income in the 6 years |
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Post by softboy on Mar 9, 2023 16:48:53 GMT 1
As time goes by DH must be realising that it is getting less and less likely he will get any, let alone all his money back. As I understand it club will need to provide a Business Plan at some stage to show they have funding to cover next season and therefore even more money from DH. I cannot see him commiting even more funding so on that basis alone is why I see Administration happening.
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Post by townarentbest on Mar 9, 2023 16:51:53 GMT 1
Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. you mean the same brighton that could potenitally play champions league football next season? the same brighton that owns their stadium and training ground (of which both are state of the art top premier league level as opposed to "our" stadium that needs multi million investment and "our" training ground which we did end up investing about £2m in instead of the £10-20m or whatever was first quoted)? the same brighton that have a top quality squad with at least 5 players they could sell for £50m+ if they had to raise funds? Yes? Not sure what point you're trying to make - I was responding to a comment that we've had hundreds of millions of income and there's talk of administration...by pointing out that you can have hundreds more millions of continuing income than Town have had, and be in a place where you're effectively even closer to trading insolvently. Not that either is in reality, given the major creditor of Brighton and of Hudds Town have made the required 3 year commitment to the Football League that they have a plan to continue the required investment to sustain the clubs, and Dean has repeatedly said (including since last summer), that as an owner, that it is his duty to the Club to continue the funding, as well as his will. |
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Mar 9, 2023 16:55:35 GMT 1
It's just the shares. All 3 parties agreed a fee in May 2022. That deal expired without money changing hands. A renegotiated deal has been agreed between the 2 owners but the 3rd party as yet won't agree. As a matter of interest, did that agreed deal expire before the play-off final or after ? Around 6 months after |
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drewden
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Post by drewden on Mar 9, 2023 16:56:45 GMT 1
How the he'll could a deal be struck before the play off final, unless Dean and Phil were going to get the proceeds of the play off money if Town won.
Everything went down hill after the play off final, and here we are to date in a complicated mess.
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