|
|
Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Mar 9, 2023 17:00:51 GMT 1
But don't forget, if you're not happy with it, you're spoiled and entitled. Yea thats right.. not being happy about that is exactly what makes people spoilt and entitled.  Hehe, knew I'd get a nibble there. |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 9, 2023 17:03:19 GMT 1
Yes, there's a high level of spend associated with being a Premier League club 🤷♂️ Brighton, a club that got promoted when we did, currently sit carrying debt of over £300m despite obviously seeing far more income than we have since then. You are absolutely correct that there is a high level of spend associated with being a premier league club and pretty much every single Premier League and Championship club have massive debts. But come on......£450,000,000 has been received in the last 6 seasons and we're discussing the possibilities of the club going into Administration. DH stated back in Oct/Nov of 2021 that the club would have gone into Administration had he not stepped back in If, the day after the Wembley final win I'd have told you that in November 2021 would be reading program notes containing the words, Administration being a real possibility or that on 9th March 2023 you'd be on DATM reading about and commenting on a thread linking Town with Administration, you'd be telling me I was crazy and DH would ensure that going into the PL would set the club up for years.......I think most of us would. Yes we had to spend a lot to try and compete in the Premier League. But honestly did you think you'd be here today reading about and commenting on a thread about Administration? The people who have presided over the running of the club over the last 6 years have not done the best of jobs really......Or perhaps you think differently? To be open and honest, I've expected to be reading about the club going into administration from about November of our second season in the Premier League onwards. I thought Dean had lost his window of opportunity to sell the club effectively and efficiently with the best outcome for him and the club. And to the answer the question about the running of the club, of course I don't think those charged with running the club did the best of jobs. No, I don't think the various people who have made key decisions have done the job to the best of their capability and expectation, actually for any extended period of time since we got promoted into the Championship, INCLUDING the time leading up to promotion, nor actually in the League 1 seasons prior. Yes, there have been good and bad choices made over the time, but I don't think risk has been handled particularly well, and there's been some pretty blatantly obvious nonsense decisions along the way that didn't require hindsight to flag them. |
|
4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,645 
|
Post by 4 pts on Mar 9, 2023 17:04:02 GMT 1
Tried to tip you all off on the 29th of Jan as to what could happen, but my post seemed to slither under the radar. Anyway, what a mess. Dean had is troozers pulled down by Phil I reckon. You like to think so and that Dean was hoodwinked but it seems more like Dean did the deal more so that he could get his hands on player sales profits and parachute payments ,sure Phil was going to bail after Dean had had his loans repaid and probably make a little profit ,covid and his businesses going bust really put a spanner in the works . Hodgkinson didn't need a pandemic to know full well that the business he was in was volatile and unstable. Something Dean would have known as well. I think what it does show is that the "fit and proper" test is an absolute joke. The Premier League and EFL allow potential owners to rock up to a football club, declare that they are worth X amount and its away you go. In my head X amount should be what you have in the bank, not what an accountant states your business or assets might be worth. |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Mar 9, 2023 17:19:37 GMT 1
Are they after a fair cut or just trying their luck and attempting to grab whatever they can? A case like this could give the administrators a name and they could be well aware of this. The answer is in the question. Administrators! largely scum of the earth, charge a man with no money a fortune and pay the creditors the pittance that remains. Yep not a fan think that's a bit harsh tbh...the Adminstrators have a legal obligation to recoup as much money as possible to pay the creditors as much as possible. There's players/staff wages, HMRC, local suppliers, then last of all loans by the owner. Pure Ltd should be up to date on payroll costs you'd hope, HMRC hopefully, but have local suppliers all been paid.?.. If Pure sports owe Pure Group some money than the Adminstrator has to get that repaid in full...if Pure Sports don't have spare cash, but hold the 75% shareholding in HTAFC, then those shares would have to be liquidated I guess, same way as any business would have to cash in any investments it has , to pay it's creditors off.
But, who wants to buy the 75% shareholding, and how much are they worth ? This again will be the Adminstrator trying to get the best deal possible..he/she has no axe to grind, no passion for Town in particular...as they said in The Godfather, 'it's just business'. This , I think, is the problem...because firstly Pure Sports (PH) will want at least what he paid for them, if not more, while Dean won't want to pay much at all, considering he's personally kept the club afloat for 18 months...I guess the 3rd option is offering the shares on the 'open market'...to see if that pulls in more cash than what's on offer. that effectively pushes DH and PH out of the negotation and while PH might be relatively happy to get the best price possible, Dean will be shitting bricks about his £35m of loans...it's complicated, I've wandered down this road of speculation not knowing where it ends...but any 3rd party wanting to offer the Adminstrator money for the 75% (majority) shareholding doesn't need DH's 25% shares, but would need to talk to him about the £35m wouldn't he ?
I'm glad this isn't my life, stuck in this nightmare but I'd love to know the truth of what's going on.
|
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
Member is Online
|
Post by goodbet on Mar 9, 2023 17:20:35 GMT 1
You like to think so and that Dean was hoodwinked but it seems more like Dean did the deal more so that he could get his hands on player sales profits and parachute payments ,sure Phil was going to bail after Dean had had his loans repaid and probably make a little profit ,covid and his businesses going bust really put a spanner in the works . Hodgkinson didn't need a pandemic to know full well that the business he was in was volatile and unstable. Something Dean would have known as well. I think what it does show is that the "fit and proper" test is an absolute joke. The Premier League and EFL allow potential owners to rock up to a football club, declare that they are worth X amount and its away you go. In my head X amount should be what you have in the bank, not what an accountant states your business or assets might be worth. Fit and Proper dose not seem to be anything but a check that you have no convictions. There are apparently some owners that have suspicious backgrounds but you have to prove something bad before you can fail someone. |
|
|
|
Post by Big Ern on Mar 9, 2023 17:35:37 GMT 1
What gets me is that it's disgusting that the fans are the ones who are punished by the club going into Admin and therefore league 1. It's not down to overspending, its down to absolutely dodgy dealing between shitty previous owners. The football league approved the previous owners though via the fit and proper person test so ultimately shouldn't they have some accountability for what's gone on?
Maybe if they had done their job properly and seen the club were being sold to a charlatan without a pot to piss in and using the clubs parachute payment lifelines as a means to repay a previous creditor, we wouldn't be in this position right now.
|
|
4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,645
|
Post by 4 pts on Mar 9, 2023 17:42:58 GMT 1
Hodgkinson didn't need a pandemic to know full well that the business he was in was volatile and unstable. Something Dean would have known as well. I think what it does show is that the "fit and proper" test is an absolute joke. The Premier League and EFL allow potential owners to rock up to a football club, declare that they are worth X amount and its away you go. In my head X amount should be what you have in the bank, not what an accountant states your business or assets might be worth. Fit and Proper dose not seem to be anything but a check that you have no convictions. There are apparently some owners that have suspicious backgrounds but you have to prove something bad before you can fail someone. Trees owner |
|
|
|
Post by waggers on Mar 9, 2023 17:45:11 GMT 1
Tried to tip you all off on the 29th of Jan as to what could happen, but my post seemed to slither under the radar. Anyway, what a mess. Dean had is troozers pulled down by Phil I reckon. You like to think so and that Dean was hoodwinked but it seems more like Dean did the deal more so that he could get his hands on player sales profits and parachute payments ,sure Phil was going to bail after Dean had had his loans repaid and probably make a little profit ,covid and his businesses going bust really put a spanner in the works . As you say, Hoyle was not hoodwinked at all. He always knew this was a possible outcome. If everything went smoothly (it never was going to) it was a great deal for Dean. He kept his 25% so he could keep the club above water and try to find a real buyer, the trouble is we're in such a disgraceful mess we're not even able to be given away. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
Member is Online
|
Post by goodbet on Mar 9, 2023 17:45:24 GMT 1
Fit and Proper dose not seem to be anything but a check that you have no convictions. There are apparently some owners that have suspicious backgrounds but you have to prove something bad before you can fail someone. Trees owner You said that not me! |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 17:47:15 GMT 1
Yea thats right.. not being happy about that is exactly what makes people spoilt and entitled. Hehe, knew I'd get a nibble there. brilliant work. id be more worried why Im camped out in your head though if I was you. That must be 30 times you've bitterly brought up entitlement somewhere it isnt relevant!  |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
Member is Online
|
Post by goodbet on Mar 9, 2023 17:52:34 GMT 1
Hehe, knew I'd get a nibble there. brilliant work. id be more worried why Im camped out in your head though if I was you. That must be 30 times you've bitterly brought up entitlement somewhere it isnt relevant! Come on, people pointing out the poor decisions and the issues in the club management for years now have had to put up with "entitled". The shit appears to be coming to a crisis point soon, just bear =it. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 17:55:03 GMT 1
Yeah it probably is worthless to anyone but HTFC.. who else would buy it? And like you say its unusable unless you can agree a deal with the landowner ( Hoyle ). But the admins could sell them if they had a viable buyer. Same with the 40% KSDL shares. Who would buy them other that HTFC? Property developer maybe, thinking of the surrounding land. We'd sell player assets first you'd think... Thomas, Nicholls, Camara, Helik, Rudoni, Jackson etc sorry I dont think you are understanding. They can sell the training ground buildings yes but only for zero value without a valid agreement in place with the land owner without such agreement the buidlings are worthless, as DH could basically say he wants 15million for the land if they want to use it. my main point is the training ground has zero value to anyone buying the club from Admins except DH therefore it is very likley that the only person able or wanting to buy the club from any Admins would be DH. 40% KSDL Shares I am sure DH would buy these also (-; We would not sell the palyer assits as they are not available for sale outside of the transfer window and a deal could be reached before window is open again, as long as we pay them all in full there contracts are still valid. I believe we will all know more very soon and I very much hope that it is not administration because if it is then that means a more workable deal for all involved was not able to be agreed upon by the PURE Admins. very true though I doubt Hoyle would prefer to own a patch of land covered with buildings he doesnt own earning him nothing. You'd presume he'd rather do a deal with canalsides new owners and earn money. True about only selling players in a window. My only point really was that the club own canalside, just not the land its on. |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Mar 9, 2023 17:55:32 GMT 1
What is depressing is that all this is going on and in the meantime the football club, i.e. the lot that actually get a team out on the pitch to play football, is going to hell in a handcart.
As I posted before I can genuinely appreciate that there's some poor luck involved here but at what point does someone remember that there is still a football club at the centre of all this?
The way we (the fans) are disregarded is also incredibly disappointing. Surely some sort of communication can be made soon to provide some sense of control and hope (for the future)?
None of this can contribute to a healthy and positive environment in which to work (which Kenny Miller eluded to). It has to stop and that should be the priority. As it stands I have no confidence that this is the priority, which is really worrying.
If someone doesn't get a hold if this it will get worse and we will be debating another relegation in 12 months. Don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does, frequently.
I post in hope, not in any expectation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 17:57:16 GMT 1
brilliant work. id be more worried why Im camped out in your head though if I was you. That must be 30 times you've bitterly brought up entitlement somewhere it isnt relevant! The shit appears to be coming to a crisis point soon, just bear =it. No they havent. People feeling they are entitled to Hoyles money in the club as a gift and for him to pump in loads more on top have been. |
|
|
|
Post by terriersyndrome on Mar 9, 2023 17:58:10 GMT 1
Does the money owed to Hoyle include the £4m side bet he made with the Reading owner before the playoff final?
|
|
|
|
Post by hthp on Mar 9, 2023 18:03:37 GMT 1
You like to think so and that Dean was hoodwinked but it seems more like Dean did the deal more so that he could get his hands on player sales profits and parachute payments ,sure Phil was going to bail after Dean had had his loans repaid and probably make a little profit ,covid and his businesses going bust really put a spanner in the works . Hodgkinson didn't need a pandemic to know full well that the business he was in was volatile and unstable. Something Dean would have known as well. I think what it does show is that the "fit and proper" test is an absolute joke. The Premier League and EFL allow potential owners to rock up to a football club, declare that they are worth X amount and its away you go. In my head X amount should be what you have in the bank, not what an accountant states your business or assets might be worth. His business going down the pan was fuck all to do with COVID anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by 3Pipe on Mar 9, 2023 18:04:53 GMT 1
People feeling they are entitled to Hoyles money in the club as a gift and for him to pump in loads more on top have been. People feeling the club is entitled to Hoyle's money. Big difference. Owner = custodian. You wouldn't starve your kids would you? |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 9, 2023 18:07:14 GMT 1
How the he'll could a deal be struck before the play off final, unless Dean and Phil were going to get the proceeds of the play off money if Town won. Everything went down hill after the play off final, and here we are to date in a complicated mess. It wasn't. Deal agreed in advance and papers were exchanged for Dean to regain ownership and control *after* the result (but on the actual day of the final!). Had we gone up - no exchange was planned to happen, PH would have had plans for running the club as a PL team with or without further outside investment, and continuing to repay Dean in a structured manner as agreed. Dean seems to like doing deals around play-offs - when we faced Reading he landed an agreement that the winner would PAY £4m to the loser, on top of the usual practice of allowing them to keep the proceeds due from ticket receipts! |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 18:07:17 GMT 1
People feeling they are entitled to Hoyles money in the club as a gift and for him to pump in loads more on top have been. People feeling the club is entitled to Hoyle's money. Big difference. fair point, it was what I meant. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 18:10:58 GMT 1
Dean seems to like doing deals around play-offs - when we faced Reading he landed an agreement that the winner would PAY £4m to the loser, on top of the usual practice of allowing them to keep the proceeds due from ticket receipts! I can see how owners would fancy that kind of arrangement. Soften the blow of defeat. the gate receipts agreement does a bit, but not sure its a huge amount once the EFL have taken their slice. Whats the source for that happening? |
|
|
|
Post by turbo2 on Mar 9, 2023 18:11:26 GMT 1
Come on, people pointing out the poor decisions and the issues in the club management for years now have had to put up with "entitled".The shit appears to be coming to a crisis point soon, just bear =it. No they havent. People feeling they are entitled to Hoyles money in the club as a gift and for him to pump in loads more on top have been. I don’t think people think they are entitled to hoyles money. Some do. Fair enough. But the majority don’t. But he turned a worthless club into a very rich club with his input. But has made such a mess of it that it’s now worthless again but thinks he can have his money back. The club is worth nothing. Hoyle will see a very small return on his ‘investment’ due to the way he spunked our PL windfall. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 18:14:27 GMT 1
No they havent. People feeling they are entitled to Hoyles money in the club as a gift and for him to pump in loads more on top have been. I don’t think people think they are entitled to hoyles money. Some do. Fair enough. But the majority don’t. But he turned a worthless club into a very rich club with his input. But has made such a mess of it that it’s now worthless again but thinks he can have his money back. The club is worth nothing. Hoyle will see a very small return on his ‘investment’ due to the way he spunked our PL windfall. And theyre the ones I call entitled. Agree with the rest, other than Im not sure the club is worth nothing. It'll have a value even if were a L1 club next season. |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 9, 2023 18:19:52 GMT 1
Dean seems to like doing deals around play-offs - when we faced Reading he landed an agreement that the winner would PAY £4m to the loser, on top of the usual practice of allowing them to keep the proceeds due from ticket receipts! I can see how owners would fancy that kind of arrangement. Soften the blow of defeat. the gate receipts agreement does a bit, but not sure its a huge amount once the EFL have taken their slice. Whats the source for that happening?Dean Hoyles mouth. We paid Reading £6m in total. open.spotify.com/episode/0c0mk0uxx6WAhUCXmpx1pU@28m50s onwards |
|
|
|
Post by Big Ern on Mar 9, 2023 18:22:27 GMT 1
I don’t think people think they are entitled to hoyles money. Some do. Fair enough. But the majority don’t. But he turned a worthless club into a very rich club with his input. But has made such a mess of it that it’s now worthless again but thinks he can have his money back. The club is worth nothing. Hoyle will see a very small return on his ‘investment’ due to the way he spunked our PL windfall. And theyre the ones I call entitled. Agree with the rest, other than Im not sure the club is worth nothing. It'll have a value even if were a L1 club next season. Your argument on this is absolutely flawed. Not a single soul on here feels that they personally are entitled to Dean Hoyles money, not one. What they are saying is that the football club, Huddersfield Town ARE entitled to it. Why? Because he decided to buy us and laud himself as the new saviour " You buy the tickets I'll buy the players". When you take over a football club you become the person responsible for its finances. Too damn right as a season ticket holder of a Championship club I expected championship quality players, not league 1 and 2 shit. |
|
|
|
Post by Gag N Bone Man on Mar 9, 2023 18:23:12 GMT 1
fuck me this is depressing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orinoco on Mar 9, 2023 18:49:50 GMT 1
I don’t think people think they are entitled to hoyles money. Some do. Fair enough. But the majority don’t. But he turned a worthless club into a very rich club with his input. But has made such a mess of it that it’s now worthless again but thinks he can have his money back. The club is worth nothing. Hoyle will see a very small return on his ‘investment’ due to the way he spunked our PL windfall. And theyre the ones I call entitled. Agree with the rest, other than Im not sure the club is worth nothing. It'll have a value even if were a L1 club next season. Agree mate, if you buy a football club you don't buy it and expect to make money, Dean got lucky with that after saying he didn't expect his investment back, he got lucky, not many do, but he seems to have blown that chance now. There have been some great times in Deans time at the club, which all fans must surely be grateful for and will have lifetimes memories. This situation just needs resolving sooner rather than later, before supporters just say enough is enough and find another more enjoyable way of spending their hard earned cash. It's a sad situation, everyone on this forum have Town in their blood and are passionate for the club, otherwise wouldn't be posting and sharing their views, but there is a line for everybody and no matter how much of a die hard supporter you are there's only so much you can take, you will eventually say enough is enough. |
|
|
|
Post by Mastercracker on Mar 9, 2023 18:52:26 GMT 1
People feeling they are entitled to Hoyles money in the club as a gift and for him to pump in loads more on top have been. People feeling the club is entitled to Hoyle's money. Big difference. Owner = custodian. You wouldn't starve your kids would you? Exactly. DH knew exactly what kind of finances it took to run a championship football club in November 2021 when he came back in. If he was unwilling to provide this for 2022/23 which evidently he wasn’t because we cut the budget back to the bone, then the club should have been sold last season. It certainly seems like there’s interest now so there would have been 12-18 months ago too. He’s gambled twice, once with PH and once crossing his fingers that we’d go up again. Now we’re all paying the price. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 9, 2023 18:55:24 GMT 1
I can see how owners would fancy that kind of arrangement. Soften the blow of defeat. the gate receipts agreement does a bit, but not sure its a huge amount once the EFL have taken their slice. Whats the source for that happening?Dean Hoyles mouth. We paid Reading £6m in total. open.spotify.com/episode/0c0mk0uxx6WAhUCXmpx1pU@28m50s onwards Thats interesting. Not heard mention of that arrangement before. Wonder if its quite common or ours was a one off. I can see why they'd do that. Not a massive loss to the side that goes up, but a big cushion to soften the blow for the club that doesnt. Dont know if its true, but I heard Forest wouldn't even agree to the customary Play Off final receipt arrangement. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 19:05:01 GMT 1
What gets me is that it's disgusting that the fans are the ones who are punished by the club going into Admin and therefore league 1. It's not down to overspending, its down to absolutely dodgy dealing between shitty previous owners. The football league approved the previous owners though via the fit and proper person test so ultimately shouldn't they have some accountability for what's gone on? Maybe if they had done their job properly and seen the club were being sold to a charlatan without a pot to piss in and using the clubs parachute payment lifelines as a means to repay a previous creditor, we wouldn't be in this position right now. Why are the fans being punished? Does it stop us watching football? All it would do is guarantee we get relegated, which most of us have experienced before, and expect anyway. All these experts, most of whom probably haven’t run a business and definitely haven’t run a football club, but know enough to be able to decide who has messed up where. Most do not actually have a clue about what it takes or how to do it and the problems that arise. So many armchair experts. |
|
|
|
Post by tepidterrier on Mar 9, 2023 19:11:37 GMT 1
Hodgkinson didn't need a pandemic to know full well that the business he was in was volatile and unstable. Something Dean would have known as well. I think what it does show is that the "fit and proper" test is an absolute joke. The Premier League and EFL allow potential owners to rock up to a football club, declare that they are worth X amount and its away you go. In my head X amount should be what you have in the bank, not what an accountant states your business or assets might be worth. His business going down the pan was fuck all to do with COVID anyway. a multi million pound business built on exploiting a legal loophole, with no contingency plan for when the loophole closed! |
|
