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Post by Porrohman on Nov 12, 2023 18:34:38 GMT 1
BRING HIM HOME…..  Yeah and cue more abuse when I mention that he's been mediocre since he left here. While I'd obviously rather have him here than Moore, he isn't the answer. Mediocre is being a bit generous |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 18:35:03 GMT 1
Part of me actually wants Wagner to come back, so we can get it out of the way and then move on.
He's been rubbish at his last three clubs and yet you're all so sure that he'll come back here, stop being rubbish and start being brilliant again.
He will never ever replicate what he did between November 2015 and May 2018, he's not the same manager that he was then, he lost it when he was at Town and has gone downhill ever since.
I know I'm pissing in the wind here, as whatever I say is wrong to most on here, but just look at his record after our first Premier League season. It is woeful.
If David Wagner had taken Preston North End into the Premier League in 2017 and then had the record he has had since, and we appointed him in 2023, the fans wouldn't be happy at all.
It's all rose tinted specs and nostalgia.
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 18:36:35 GMT 1
Yeah and cue more abuse when I mention that he's been mediocre since he left here. While I'd obviously rather have him here than Moore, he isn't the answer. Mediocre is being a bit generous They've already got the excuses stacked up for why he's been a failure in every job since he left us. |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 12, 2023 18:39:30 GMT 1
Wagner has taken Norwich from the play-offs to 16th, why on Earth would we want him to take over here? Norwich fans can't stand him, they want him out and have been chanting him out for weeks. Yet you can guarantee, if he got the job here, he'd be untouchable, beyond criticism and nothing would ever be his fault in the eyes of the fans. Whilst I totally understand your point. There is only one man ( in my opinion ) who could unite the club from top to bottom within a millisecond of being appointed. Personally, I don’t care what he has or hasn’t done since. It will always be DW for me. Who spotted/brought all the players in, was it Wagner or Webber ? And we can't bring loads of Germans in because of Brexit. |
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Post by runner76 on Nov 12, 2023 18:41:26 GMT 1
I’d have him back over Moore, ahead of the Jan window, and let him invest at will, backed by our billionaire owner. He can finish his unfinished business at Town. What unfinished business? Getting us into Europe? Exactly. |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 12, 2023 18:44:15 GMT 1
Mediocre is being a bit generous They've already got the excuses stacked up for why he's been a failure in every job since he left us. Well they had them for JR too |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 12, 2023 18:45:47 GMT 1
Steve Evans. I think Evans has done a brilliant job at Stevenage. Chris Wilder, I've been a fan since his Oxford days and wanted him to replace Wagner months before he left. There's others too, but not Wagner. He's yesterday's man and I think it's time Town fans let it go and moved on. Amd regards Warnock, Warnock has gone, all these people saying we need to bring him back are hilarious. Like he'd come back 😂 So you don't want Wagner because he has some failures on his CV but you'd take Evans or Wilder?! No logic in that is there? I know what I saw with Wagner here last time, that's why I and others would take him back. There are very few managers who are universally successful, especially at this level. In fact I can't think of one. Apart from Town he's only got failures on his CV. Evans and Wilder have successes on theirs too. |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 12, 2023 18:47:51 GMT 1
No it doesn't. You're just disagreeing with me for the sake of it. No I thought his post was a brilliant one Because it deals in blind optimism rather than facts ? |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Nov 12, 2023 18:50:37 GMT 1
The more clubs Wagner manages the more it makes me wonder if his success here was pretty much because he had Aaron Mooy.
I don't think we'll ever fully appreciate just how far above Championship level he was.
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Post by Teddington Ted on Nov 12, 2023 19:00:15 GMT 1
What is it about Town fans and looking to relive the past?!?
The next Warnock is out there. The next Wagner is out there. The next Klopp, Wenger, Pep, Poch, Arteta, Jacko, Buxton, Boot, Shankley and Herbert fucking Chapman are out there.
Let’s try find them, not pretend we can walk the same walk we were lucky to tread many, many years ago.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Nov 12, 2023 19:00:54 GMT 1
And on those same lines, you take Barry Bannan out of that Wednesday side and Darren Moore would be on the managerial scrap heap
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 19:03:34 GMT 1
So you don't want Wagner because he has some failures on his CV but you'd take Evans or Wilder?! No logic in that is there? I know what I saw with Wagner here last time, that's why I and others would take him back. There are very few managers who are universally successful, especially at this level. In fact I can't think of one. Apart from Town he's only got failures on his CV. Evans and Wilder have successes on theirs too. Evans has had the likes of Rotherham, Boston, Crawley and now Stevenage punching above their weight. But because he's an unfashionable manager, people will just scoff at the suggestion. He must be near to Warnock's eight promotions? |
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Nov 12, 2023 19:06:28 GMT 1
The more clubs Wagner manages the more it makes me wonder if his success here was pretty much because he had Aaron Mooy. I don't think we'll ever fully appreciate just how far above Championship level he was. Mooy was a Premier League class player &, even at the last World Cup, the lad was excellent. He would have been a far better player at Man City than Phillips, if Aaron had been given a chance. But what DW did was amazing, he brought a different level to the Championship's professionalism & he was a victim of his own success, in that he was copied. I do think it was the perfect storm but he built a squad in the right way (choosing leaders who had been captains at their clubs), built a squad at the right time (January is not the right time to build a winning squad) & got players playing at a level they hadn't played at either before that season, or after - e.g Kachunga & Tommy Smith. Whether he could do it again at Town,& personally I don't think so, is hugely debatable & I'm not even sure I'd want him to try... his promotion winning team would have beaten this team 2-0, without our current squad having a kick. Mooy would just stroll around the pitch, finding pockets of space, with the ball being like a magnet to him, dictating the whole game. However, if you picked a joint team from the 2 squads, the only players that would get anywhere near a starting spot would be Nicholls & Helik. Obviously, the 2016/17 version of Hoggy is more preferable than the 23/24 version. David would have to completely start again. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Nov 12, 2023 19:17:18 GMT 1
The more clubs Wagner manages the more it makes me wonder if his success here was pretty much because he had Aaron Mooy. I don't think we'll ever fully appreciate just how far above Championship level he was. Mooy was a Premier League class player &, even at the last World Cup, the lad was excellent. He would have been a far better player at Man City than Phillips, if Aaron had been given a chance. But what DW did was amazing, he brought a different level to the Championship's professionalism & he was a victim of his own success, in that he was copied. I do think it was the perfect storm but he built a squad in the right way (choosing leaders who had been captains at their clubs), built a squad at the right time (January is not the right time to build a winning squad) & got players playing at a level they hadn't played at either before that season, or after - e.g Kachunga & Tommy Smith. Whether he could do it again at Town,& personally I don't think so, is hugely debatable & I'm not even sure I'd want him to try... his promotion winning team would have beaten this team 2-0, without our current squad having a kick. Mooy would just stroll around the pitch, finding pockets of space, with the ball being like a magnet to him, dictating the whole game. However, if you picked a joint team from the 2 squads, the only players that would get anywhere near a starting spot would be Nicholls & Helik. Obviously, the 2016/17 version of Hoggy is more preferable than the 23/24 version. David would have to completely start again. A post full of sense as usual. I totally understand actually why some people wouldn’t want DW back. But I ask myself this question. “ in all my years of watching Town, have I ever witnessed such unity, such a bond between club and fans as I did when DW was here “ after 1 game! Notwithstanding the great work carried out by NW, the answer is a resounding NO. I want that feeling back even though I’m sure it will never happen again in my lifetime. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 19:21:25 GMT 1
Mooy was a Premier League class player &, even at the last World Cup, the lad was excellent. He would have been a far better player at Man City than Phillips, if Aaron had been given a chance. But what DW did was amazing, he brought a different level to the Championship's professionalism & he was a victim of his own success, in that he was copied. I do think it was the perfect storm but he built a squad in the right way (choosing leaders who had been captains at their clubs), built a squad at the right time (January is not the right time to build a winning squad) & got players playing at a level they hadn't played at either before that season, or after - e.g Kachunga & Tommy Smith. Whether he could do it again at Town,& personally I don't think so, is hugely debatable & I'm not even sure I'd want him to try... his promotion winning team would have beaten this team 2-0, without our current squad having a kick. Mooy would just stroll around the pitch, finding pockets of space, with the ball being like a magnet to him, dictating the whole game. However, if you picked a joint team from the 2 squads, the only players that would get anywhere near a starting spot would be Nicholls & Helik. Obviously, the 2016/17 version of Hoggy is more preferable than the 23/24 version. David would have to completely start again. A post full of sense as usual. I totally understand actually why some people wouldn’t want DW back. But I ask myself this question. “ in all my years of watching Town, have I ever witnessed such unity, such a bond between club and fans as I did when DW was here “ after 1 game! Notwithstanding the great work carried out by NW, the answer is a resounding NO. I want that feeling back even though I’m sure it will never happen again in my lifetime. It was the second game wasn't it? Certainly wasn't the first. Whereas Warnock united the fans in an instant earlier this year. |
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Post by royrace on Nov 12, 2023 19:40:38 GMT 1
Part of me actually wants Wagner to come back, so we can get it out of the way and then move on. He's been rubbish at his last three clubs and yet you're all so sure that he'll come back here, stop being rubbish and start being brilliant again. He will never ever replicate what he did between November 2015 and May 2018, he's not the same manager that he was then, he lost it when he was at Town and has gone downhill ever since. I know I'm pissing in the wind here, as whatever I say is wrong to most on here, but just look at his record after our first Premier League season. It is woeful. If David Wagner had taken Preston North End into the Premier League in 2017 and then had the record he has had since, and we appointed him in 2023, the fans wouldn't be happy at all. It's all rose tinted specs and nostalgia. One huge success so far, two failures and one very dodgy start. I think there were extenuating circumstances with Mainz, not sure about young boys. Dean Smith failed at Norwich, villa eventually, Leicester, Wilder at Boro and Watford... I'd take either of them too. I thought Wagner did a brilliant job second pl season too considering the absolute state of the squad Hoyle presented him with. He left of his own accord with reputation in tact because he knew that Hoyle was starting his exit plan. The thing the three managers above have all done, is over achieve. Unlike Moore who despite his stats, which mean FA, has only ever delivered the minimum of what should be expected. Anyway don't worry I don't expect we'll get to find out! He might well still see success at Norwich. A much different situation though to taking over a club like town and starting from scratch I think you'd agree? A reset I think he called it and bloody hell we could do with another!! |
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Post by kennyk2 on Nov 12, 2023 19:48:55 GMT 1
What is it about Town fans and looking to relive the past?!?The next Warnock is out there. The next Wagner is out there. The next Klopp, Wenger, Pep, Poch, Arteta, Jacko, Buxton, Boot, Shankley and Herbert fucking Chapman are out there. Let’s try find them, not pretend we can walk the same walk we were lucky to tread many, many years ago. Exactly... which manager has ever come back and surpassed his first stint... Tom Johnstone, Mick Buxton, Neil W...... Ah! |
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Nov 12, 2023 19:49:12 GMT 1
Mooy was a Premier League class player &, even at the last World Cup, the lad was excellent. He would have been a far better player at Man City than Phillips, if Aaron had been given a chance. But what DW did was amazing, he brought a different level to the Championship's professionalism & he was a victim of his own success, in that he was copied. I do think it was the perfect storm but he built a squad in the right way (choosing leaders who had been captains at their clubs), built a squad at the right time (January is not the right time to build a winning squad) & got players playing at a level they hadn't played at either before that season, or after - e.g Kachunga & Tommy Smith. Whether he could do it again at Town,& personally I don't think so, is hugely debatable & I'm not even sure I'd want him to try... his promotion winning team would have beaten this team 2-0, without our current squad having a kick. Mooy would just stroll around the pitch, finding pockets of space, with the ball being like a magnet to him, dictating the whole game. However, if you picked a joint team from the 2 squads, the only players that would get anywhere near a starting spot would be Nicholls & Helik. Obviously, the 2016/17 version of Hoggy is more preferable than the 23/24 version. David would have to completely start again. A post full of sense as usual. I totally understand actually why some people wouldn’t want DW back. But I ask myself this question. “ in all my years of watching Town, have I ever witnessed such unity, such a bond between club and fans as I did when DW was here “ after 1 game! Notwithstanding the great work carried out by NW, the answer is a resounding NO. I want that feeling back even though I’m sure it will never happen again in my lifetime. I totally agree about the unity & bond. David will always be a hero of mine, what he has done after Town is irrelevant, IMO. |
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Post by harris on Nov 12, 2023 19:56:22 GMT 1
Some clubs and managers are made for each other - e.g. Nathan Jones at Luton.
Would be nice to actually sign some good players and play on the front foot like when he was here.
The instant positive performances when he first came in were brilliant even though we lost. We’re losing most games now and not even having a go.
Don’t really want him back, but got to be better than what we’re being served up currently.
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 19:58:05 GMT 1
Part of me actually wants Wagner to come back, so we can get it out of the way and then move on. He's been rubbish at his last three clubs and yet you're all so sure that he'll come back here, stop being rubbish and start being brilliant again. He will never ever replicate what he did between November 2015 and May 2018, he's not the same manager that he was then, he lost it when he was at Town and has gone downhill ever since. I know I'm pissing in the wind here, as whatever I say is wrong to most on here, but just look at his record after our first Premier League season. It is woeful. If David Wagner had taken Preston North End into the Premier League in 2017 and then had the record he has had since, and we appointed him in 2023, the fans wouldn't be happy at all. It's all rose tinted specs and nostalgia. One huge success so far, two failures and one very dodgy start. I think there were extenuating circumstances with Mainz, not sure about young boys. Dean Smith failed at Norwich, villa eventually, Leicester, Wilder at Boro and Watford... I'd take either of them too. I thought Wagner did a brilliant job second pl season too considering the absolute state of the squad Hoyle presented him with. He left of his own accord with reputation in tact because he knew that Hoyle was starting his exit plan. The thing the three managers above have all done, is over achieve. Unlike Moore who despite his stats, which mean FA, has only ever delivered the minimum of what should be expected. Anyway don't worry I don't expect we'll get to find out! He might well still see success at Norwich. A much different situation though to taking over a club like town and starting from scratch I think you'd agree? A reset I think he called it and bloody hell we could do with another!! He did a brilliant job in the second season? We were bottom of the table, nine points adrift with two wins in 22! As I said earlier, it's rose tinted specs. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 20:00:13 GMT 1
What is it about Town fans and looking to relive the past?!?The next Warnock is out there. The next Wagner is out there. The next Klopp, Wenger, Pep, Poch, Arteta, Jacko, Buxton, Boot, Shankley and Herbert fucking Chapman are out there. Let’s try find them, not pretend we can walk the same walk we were lucky to tread many, many years ago. Exactly... which manager has ever come back and surpassed his first stint... Tom Johnstone, Mick Buxton, Neil W...... Ah! Peter Jackson is the only manager to surpass his first stint as manager. Only three managers have returned as manager, Johnston didn't do anything, and while Warnock achieved survival, I don't think it surpasses two Wembley appearances in a year and a promotion. |
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Post by Teddington Ted on Nov 12, 2023 20:00:50 GMT 1
What is it about Town fans and looking to relive the past?!?The next Warnock is out there. The next Wagner is out there. The next Klopp, Wenger, Pep, Poch, Arteta, Jacko, Buxton, Boot, Shankley and Herbert fucking Chapman are out there. Let’s try find them, not pretend we can walk the same walk we were lucky to tread many, many years ago. Exactly... which manager has ever come back and surpassed his first stint... Tom Johnstone, Mick Buxton, Neil W...... Ah! Surpassed? Not sure NW belongs on that list. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 20:02:06 GMT 1
A post full of sense as usual. I totally understand actually why some people wouldn’t want DW back. But I ask myself this question. “ in all my years of watching Town, have I ever witnessed such unity, such a bond between club and fans as I did when DW was here “ after 1 game! Notwithstanding the great work carried out by NW, the answer is a resounding NO. I want that feeling back even though I’m sure it will never happen again in my lifetime. I totally agree about the unity & bond. David will always be a hero of mine, what he has done after Town is irrelevant, IMO. It's not irrelevant if people are saying we should bring him back. |
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Post by Metch on Nov 12, 2023 20:02:48 GMT 1
The more clubs Wagner manages the more it makes me wonder if his success here was pretty much because he had Aaron Mooy. I don't think we'll ever fully appreciate just how far above Championship level he was. Mooy was a Premier League class player &, even at the last World Cup, the lad was excellent. He would have been a far better player at Man City than Phillips, if Aaron had been given a chance. But what DW did was amazing, he brought a different level to the Championship's professionalism & he was a victim of his own success, in that he was copied. I do think it was the perfect storm but he built a squad in the right way (choosing leaders who had been captains at their clubs), built a squad at the right time (January is not the right time to build a winning squad) & got players playing at a level they hadn't played at either before that season, or after - e.g Kachunga & Tommy Smith. Whether he could do it again at Town,& personally I don't think so, is hugely debatable & I'm not even sure I'd want him to try... his promotion winning team would have beaten this team 2-0, without our current squad having a kick. Mooy would just stroll around the pitch, finding pockets of space, with the ball being like a magnet to him, dictating the whole game. However, if you picked a joint team from the 2 squads, the only players that would get anywhere near a starting spot would be Nicholls & Helik. Obviously, the 2016/17 version of Hoggy is more preferable than the 23/24 version. David would have to completely start again. I was just about to write a similar piece, even using the "perfect storm" phrase. Yes, Mooy was a massive part of our success but there were many factors and Wagner was instrumental in bringing this together. Without making excuses, I can see why he wasn't a success at Schalke and struggling at Norwich but would argue Young Boys wasn't a failure. Yes I'd have him back after watching the non football shitshow I sat through yesterday. |
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Post by nicovaesen on Nov 12, 2023 20:12:19 GMT 1
Cmon mr nagle bring the messiah home or is that the plan all along for the UTT series!
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Post by royrace on Nov 12, 2023 20:13:51 GMT 1
One huge success so far, two failures and one very dodgy start. I think there were extenuating circumstances with Mainz, not sure about young boys. Dean Smith failed at Norwich, villa eventually, Leicester, Wilder at Boro and Watford... I'd take either of them too. I thought Wagner did a brilliant job second pl season too considering the absolute state of the squad Hoyle presented him with. He left of his own accord with reputation in tact because he knew that Hoyle was starting his exit plan. The thing the three managers above have all done, is over achieve. Unlike Moore who despite his stats, which mean FA, has only ever delivered the minimum of what should be expected. Anyway don't worry I don't expect we'll get to find out! He might well still see success at Norwich. A much different situation though to taking over a club like town and starting from scratch I think you'd agree? A reset I think he called it and bloody hell we could do with another!! He did a brilliant job in the second season? We were bottom of the table, nine points adrift with two wins in 22! As I said earlier, it's rose tinted specs. He did as well as could be expected yes and had us playing reasonably well in a totally different formation despite being provided with players not even good enough for the league below. No manager on earth would or could have done better so it isn't classed as a failure. He left before the asset stripping commenced, he'd seen the future and didn't want to be part of it, understandably. |
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Post by alfredsterrier on Nov 12, 2023 20:13:55 GMT 1
I personally think it was a perfect storm where everything gelled and came together to gain promotion.
It was an amazing time and probably many of us have never seen such a great player as Mooy in town colours.
He does seem to have struggled since though.
Part of me says don’t go back and can he really do it again especially given his struggles with a Norwich team which is worth so much more than Town currently.
Having said that!
From game 1 you could see a difference with him. There was a game plan- not always executed well at first- but there was a plan and they looked united.
Clearly we can’t go back to Warnock- that ship has sailed.
Who can unite a team and the fans and there is only one manager.- David Wagner.
Big gamble though.
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Post by richhtfc on Nov 12, 2023 20:16:48 GMT 1
A post full of sense as usual. I totally understand actually why some people wouldn’t want DW back. But I ask myself this question. “ in all my years of watching Town, have I ever witnessed such unity, such a bond between club and fans as I did when DW was here “ after 1 game! Notwithstanding the great work carried out by NW, the answer is a resounding NO. I want that feeling back even though I’m sure it will never happen again in my lifetime. It was the second game wasn't it? Certainly wasn't the first. Whereas Warnock united the fans in an instant earlier this year. Third game till a win. We lost 3-1 away to Wednesday first game but you could see we were trying to play. We then lost 0-2 to Middlesbrough at home, but everyone there was impressed wit how we played, we battered them and went off to a standing ovation. His first win was a 0-2 win away at Birmingham. We followed that up with a loss at home to Bristol which I’d forgotten about completely. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 20:18:29 GMT 1
It was the second game wasn't it? Certainly wasn't the first. Whereas Warnock united the fans in an instant earlier this year. Third game till a win. We lost 3-1 away to Wednesday first game but you could see we were trying to play. We then lost 0-2 to Middlesbrough at home, but everyone there was impressed wit how we played, we battered them and went off to a standing ovation. His first win was a 0-2 win away at Birmingham. We followed that up with a loss at home to Bristol which I’d forgotten about completely. The first home game was brilliant, despite the scoreline. You could sense something was changing. I just don't think it's correct to say Wagner united everyone immediately, because he didn't. He couldn't have done, because we'd never heard of him! |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 12, 2023 20:20:07 GMT 1
He did a brilliant job in the second season? We were bottom of the table, nine points adrift with two wins in 22! As I said earlier, it's rose tinted specs. He did as well as could be expected yes and had us playing reasonably well in a totally different formation despite being provided with players not even good enough for the league below. No manager on earth would or could have done better so it isn't classed as a failure. He left before the asset stripping commenced, he'd seen the future and didn't want to be part of it, understandably. No. He didn't want a relegation on his CV. Because let's stop pretending otherwise, we were going down under him anyway. What is it with Town fans and rewriting history? We won two games between August and January under him, TWO GAMES! |
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