incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 11:17:13 GMT 1
No supporters of any other Championship club would accept that. Is that it then? No budget this year move on. Would you have accepted that from statement from any of our previous owners. Of course not. Our previous owners set the budgets ffs. Nagel hasn't not and can't set or change the budget for this season. If he had, then it would be different and you would have a valid point. Hoyle had to set the budgets sensibly incase a takeover didn't go through and we were relying on him covering costs until someone took control. I am sure other clubs supporters such as Portsmouth, Bolton, Reading, Wigan are all wishing they had people using common sense. Or let's go down your route and spend millions on Diakhaby, Pritchard, Sobhi et al. That worked didn't it? In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 18, 2023 11:20:06 GMT 1
The more i think about it , the less worried i am about our situation. We rushed to replace players last summer, we rushed into the market to sign players in January. Yet how many of them failed ? Warnock knows exactly what he wants, therefore i would be willing to wait as long as he gets what he wants or closer to it .
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Post by cowshed1992 on Jul 18, 2023 11:57:01 GMT 1
Our previous owners set the budgets ffs. Nagel hasn't not and can't set or change the budget for this season. If he had, then it would be different and you would have a valid point. Hoyle had to set the budgets sensibly incase a takeover didn't go through and we were relying on him covering costs until someone took control. I am sure other clubs supporters such as Portsmouth, Bolton, Reading, Wigan are all wishing they had people using common sense. Or let's go down your route and spend millions on Diakhaby, Pritchard, Sobhi et al. That worked didn't it? In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. |
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Post by rockwall on Jul 18, 2023 12:27:10 GMT 1
In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. He has no input because when budgets were set he wasn't owners. Imagine the meltdown if we took his financial position into consideration and then it fell through? We would go bust. As also stated, our budgets are lower again because of what we still owe to others people. The sales of Camara and Coadys percentage go towards paying out what we owe. |
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Post by seasonticket on Jul 18, 2023 12:27:48 GMT 1
In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. How much money do you think Nagel has spent so far in acquiring the club? Not 'peanuts' for sure. He's been clear about the need to a) raise revenue and b) respect EFL regulations. We also have one of the lowest set of ticket prices in the Championship. Why are you so desperate for someone to spend their money on your behalf? The club is rightly getting rid of players who don't want to be here or Warnock does n't see as being up to the task. Warnock has also been clear about the need to acquire two forwards - the right characters - and that's in the process of happening - the only person 'flat'lining here is you with your unrealistic, impatient and meandering diatribes... |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,772
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Post by arry11 on Jul 18, 2023 12:28:20 GMT 1
In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. FFS our problem is still from the past and we need too get the heavy losses of the 3 year FFP regulations plan 3 seasons ago we still had big earners on the books and we lost big bucks due to the pandemic. Its been explained many times by many trusted people and the books don't lie. You need to trust KN and NW we still have the best part of the squad that performed our escape just need for a bit of quality adding and that may take a bit of time. |
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Post by rockwall on Jul 18, 2023 12:28:26 GMT 1
Our previous owners set the budgets ffs. Nagel hasn't not and can't set or change the budget for this season. If he had, then it would be different and you would have a valid point. Hoyle had to set the budgets sensibly incase a takeover didn't go through and we were relying on him covering costs until someone took control. I am sure other clubs supporters such as Portsmouth, Bolton, Reading, Wigan are all wishing they had people using common sense. Or let's go down your route and spend millions on Diakhaby, Pritchard, Sobhi et al. That worked didn't it? In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. But the takeover was not complete when the budget needed inputting. You can't say you have x amount when it isn't complete. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 18, 2023 12:46:40 GMT 1
So this short list of forwards MC has put together....who do we think might be on it!? A possible few might be Benik Afobe(As a Free agent) and Britt Asombalonga. Any other ideas? ...its something to ponder till we do get some news!! I liked benik a good guy and still a player. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 18, 2023 12:48:43 GMT 1
No supporters of any other Championship club would accept that. Is that it then? No budget this year move on. Would you have accepted that from statement from any of our previous owners. Of course not. It's understandable that you might be concerned about the standard of the squad and our lack of signings. Personally I'm not panicking, but can understand why others might be. However, people are getting frustrated at the number of times you've made the same point. The club isn't going to change their strategy in this window, so you can either keep repeating yourself or consider your opinion 'on the record' and we can all wait and see whether you were right. You now seem to be doubling down with negativity for the sake of negativity. Possibly because of the reaction that your posts have been getting. A pre-season trip that has worked numerous times for the manager isn't pointless, Junior Hoilett has already been dismissed as a rumour and there hasn't been any statement that there is no budget. It's starting to come across as contrived to get a reaction, rather than your genuine opinion. well said! |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 18, 2023 12:57:26 GMT 1
No supporters of any other Championship club would accept that. Is that it then? No budget this year move on. Would you have accepted that from statement from any of our previous owners. Of course not. Our previous owners set the budgets ffs. Nagel hasn't not and can't set or change the budget for this season. If he had, then it would be different and you would have a valid point. Hoyle had to set the budgets sensibly incase a takeover didn't go through and we were relying on him covering costs until someone took control. I am sure other clubs supporters such as Portsmouth, Bolton, Reading, Wigan are all wishing they had people using common sense. Or let's go down your route and spend millions on Diakhaby, Pritchard, Sobhi et al. That worked didn't it? agrred, the budget was set by Deans team but the parameters established by the league, it could be changed but would need to fall within the same parameters " the bottom line" |
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Post by Metch on Jul 18, 2023 12:59:38 GMT 1
I'll keep saying it, have faith! There is no way Warnock would be coaxed out of retirement if he didn't think he had something to work with and I don't mean just to survive. He obviously thinks there is an opportunity at Town for him to end on a high.
I'm excited despite the squad looking similar to last year right now.
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 13:01:56 GMT 1
In seeking approval of the takeover they will have been obliged to provide the EFL with updated budget info demonstrating the financial impact of the change in control so Nagle will have had some input. But the takeover was not complete when the budget needed inputting. You can't say you have x amount when it isn't complete. The takeover was agreed "subject to legislative and governance procedures" two or three weeks before the numbers went in (lifting our temporary transfer embargo) |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 13:05:37 GMT 1
I'll keep saying it, have faith! There is no way Warnock would be coaxed out of retirement if he didn't think he had something to work with and I don't mean just to survive. He obviously thinks there is an opportunity at Town for him to end on a high. I'm excited despite the squad looking similar to last year right now. He was pretty consistent in all of his post-season interviews that what was required was two or three quality additions in key areas. It does seem as though he meant what he said  |
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Post by hartyhtfc on Jul 18, 2023 13:10:29 GMT 1
The more i think about it , the less worried i am about our situation. We rushed to replace players last summer, we rushed into the market to sign players in January. Yet how many of them failed ? Warnock knows exactly what he wants, therefore i would be willing to wait as long as he gets what he wants or closer to it . I'm in two minds about it, but am coming round to this point of view. It is slightly concerning to see Reading in the league below signing some premium League 1 free agents, whilst we sit by and sign no-one. Being hopeful, I'd like to think Warnock has looked at these players and decided that they're not much better than who we already have, or that their wages are better spent somewhere else. |
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Post by rockwall on Jul 18, 2023 13:17:20 GMT 1
But the takeover was not complete when the budget needed inputting. You can't say you have x amount when it isn't complete. The takeover was agreed "subject to legislative and governance procedures" two or three weeks before the numbers went in (lifting our temporary transfer embargo) Would you ever start paying a mortgage on a house 'sold subject to contract'? Regardless of how far down the line the takeover was, it was not complete. It still could have fallen through and we would have been well and truly fucked. |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 13:18:25 GMT 1
This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. FFS our problem is still from the past and we need too get the heavy losses of the 3 year FFP regulations plan 3 seasons ago we still had big earners on the books and we lost big bucks due to the pandemic. Its been explained many times by many trusted people and the books don't lie. You need to trust KN and NW we still have the best part of the squad that performed our escape just need for a bit of quality adding and that may take a bit of time. . Our current FFP position is as healthy as it will ever realistically be without going back to the Premier League. The losses we will incur in the next three years will far outweigh those of the previous parachute payment years. Agreed on the squad building. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jul 18, 2023 13:18:36 GMT 1
But the takeover was not complete when the budget needed inputting. You can't say you have x amount when it isn't complete. The takeover was agreed "subject to legislative and governance procedures" two or three weeks before the numbers went in (lifting our temporary transfer embargo) Didn't the numbers need to be in by March? |
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Post by Up the Duff. on Jul 18, 2023 13:34:02 GMT 1
This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. He has no input because when budgets were set he wasn't owners. Imagine the meltdown if we took his financial position into consideration and then it fell through? We would go bust. As also stated, our budgets are lower again because of what we still owe to others people. The sales of Camara and Coadys percentage go towards paying out what we owe. new budgets can be submitted upon a takeover |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 13:34:03 GMT 1
The takeover was agreed "subject to legislative and governance procedures" two or three weeks before the numbers went in (lifting our temporary transfer embargo) Didn't the numbers need to be in by March? They did, but we were late. |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 13:53:10 GMT 1
The takeover was agreed "subject to legislative and governance procedures" two or three weeks before the numbers went in (lifting our temporary transfer embargo) Would you ever start paying a mortgage on a house 'sold subject to contract'? Regardless of how far down the line the takeover was, it was not complete. It still could have fallen through and we would have been well and truly fucked. It's an interesting idea. I've shared my thoughts previously on the Finance ThreadIt's only through the process of seeking approval for a change in control that the forecasted budget for next season could have the potential to become a 'binding' figure. For the clubs operating normally (ie outside of any ongoing league sanction), the budget figure they submit for the following season is only really indicative. It's fair to say that, had the takeover fallen through, we would almost certainly have a lot more to worry about than EFL red tape... |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,772
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Post by arry11 on Jul 18, 2023 13:54:30 GMT 1
FFS our problem is still from the past and we need too get the heavy losses of the 3 year FFP regulations plan 3 seasons ago we still had big earners on the books and we lost big bucks due to the pandemic. Its been explained many times by many trusted people and the books don't lie. You need to trust KN and NW we still have the best part of the squad that performed our escape just need for a bit of quality adding and that may take a bit of time. . Our current FFP position is as healthy as it will ever realistically be without going back to the Premier League. The losses we will incur in the next three years will far outweigh those of the previous parachute payment years. Agreed on the squad building. Give up we had to submit a budget to the EFL that they thought feasible due to our income our losses will decrease given our bank loans have been paid off for now plus our wage bill coming down. And are you forgetting how much the club lost in revenue. |
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Post by Up the Duff. on Jul 18, 2023 14:11:45 GMT 1
This idea that he has no input in setting budgets is completely ludicrous. Are we to believe then that Town are in greater financial peril than the other 23 clubs in this league? It certainly seems that way at the moment. I don’t see this level of financial conservatism coming from anyone else. There’s an almost desperate rush to get what may end up being 7 or 8 ‘fringe’ players out of the door to free up a bit of cash to sign maybe 2 or 3 players probably for peanuts. Let’s face it, there was a degree of excitement when the takeover was announced. Since then it’s been flat as a fart. He has no input because when budgets were set he wasn't owners. Imagine the meltdown if we took his financial position into consideration and then it fell through? We would go bust. As also stated, our budgets are lower again because of what we still owe to others people. The sales of Camara and Coadys percentage go towards paying out what we owe. What is it that we owe that the sales of Camara and Coady's percentage are going towards ? The bank loan was cleared with the first instalments from the o'Brien and toffolo transfers, and we were declared debt free upon takeover. |
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Post by dm on Jul 18, 2023 14:26:11 GMT 1
He has no input because when budgets were set he wasn't owners. Imagine the meltdown if we took his financial position into consideration and then it fell through? We would go bust. As also stated, our budgets are lower again because of what we still owe to others people. The sales of Camara and Coadys percentage go towards paying out what we owe. What is it that we owe that the sales of Camara and Coady's percentage are going towards ? The bank loan was cleared with the first instalments from the o'Brien and toffolo transfers, and we were declared debt free upon takeover. We have to fund Duane Holmes' 'sale' to Preston somehow  |
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Wingman on Jul 18, 2023 14:29:26 GMT 1
You’d hope the Camara and possibly Boyle fee (if there was one) and the Coady sell-on will be available to NW now and in January. We have to make it stretch this season, so we should spend wisely.
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Post by rockwall on Jul 18, 2023 14:50:14 GMT 1
He has no input because when budgets were set he wasn't owners. Imagine the meltdown if we took his financial position into consideration and then it fell through? We would go bust. As also stated, our budgets are lower again because of what we still owe to others people. The sales of Camara and Coadys percentage go towards paying out what we owe. What is it that we owe that the sales of Camara and Coady's percentage are going towards ? The bank loan was cleared with the first instalments from the o'Brien and toffolo transfers, and we were declared debt free upon takeover. Somewhere, it was stated the club are debt free, but Nagel owes Hoyle and that would be given to DH from any transfers. It is on a thread somewhere. I would try find it, but like most threads, itl be lost in a derail 😂 |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,500
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Post by incognito on Jul 18, 2023 15:08:05 GMT 1
No, they don't. Our current FFP position is as healthy as it will ever realistically be without going back to the Premier League. The losses we will incur in the next three years will far outweigh those of the previous parachute payment years. Agreed on the squad building. Give up we had to submit a budget to the EFL that they thought feasible due to our income our losses will decrease given our bank loans have been paid off for now plus our wage bill coming down. And are you forgetting how much the club lost in revenue. I would genuinely welcome any input you may have on the numbers employed in the two forecast years from the above link. Likewise on my interpretation of the FFP P&S calculation rules. Probably better to switch that conversation to the finance thread rather than further bogging down this one though (although this stuff is still an upgrade on the trans debate we've seen on this thread in recent days  ) |
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Wingman on Jul 18, 2023 15:25:44 GMT 1
What is it that we owe that the sales of Camara and Coady's percentage are going towards ? The bank loan was cleared with the first instalments from the o'Brien and toffolo transfers, and we were declared debt free upon takeover. Somewhere, it was stated the club are debt free, but Nagel owes Hoyle and that would be given to DH from any transfers. It is on a thread somewhere. I would try find it, but like most threads, itl be lost in a derail 😂 I thought the only monies due to DH were if we were to be promoted to the Premier League again? |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jul 18, 2023 15:27:03 GMT 1
Somewhere, it was stated the club are debt free, but Nagel owes Hoyle and that would be given to DH from any transfers. It is on a thread somewhere. I would try find it, but like most threads, itl be lost in a derail 😂 I thought the only monies due to DH was if we were to be promoted to the Premier League again? That is my understanding as well. |
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Post by twyford on Jul 18, 2023 15:32:34 GMT 1
What is it that we owe that the sales of Camara and Coady's percentage are going towards ? The bank loan was cleared with the first instalments from the o'Brien and toffolo transfers, and we were declared debt free upon takeover. Somewhere, it was stated the club are debt free, but Nagel owes Hoyle and that would be given to DH from any transfers. It is on a thread somewhere. I would try find it, but like most threads, itl be lost in a derail 😂 It might be on a thread somewhere but that doesn't mean that it's true. In his press conference Nagle stated that the only payment the club would have to make to Hoyle would be in the event that the club returned to the Premier League - the amount wasn't specified nor was whether this is an open ended commitment or has to be achieved within a specified period. Hopefully this will be revealed in the next set of financial accounts - if the year end has been kept at the end of June (which I think the EFL requires for all clubs) then this will be post the sale completing and should give more details ie the amount of loans written off by Hoyle should be shown together with the amount he is rolling over pending that Premier League return. They should also show how Nagle is funding the losses he agreed to fund following the sale being agreed ie has the club issued new shares for Nagle's holding company to acquire or is that holding company making loans to the trading company (club). If the latter then what are the terms - when would they be repayable and is any interest being charged? I would hope, like Hoyle, any such loans were interest free. Any short term repayment requirements would affect future cashflow. The accounts would also need an ongoing commitment from Nagle to fund future losses so that the club can be classified as a going concern. If we're lucky (because I'm nosey) they may include details of how much was paid by Hoyle to recover the 75% shareholding from Hodgkinson's company's administrator and how much Nagle then paid Hoyle for the 100% holding. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 18, 2023 15:40:33 GMT 1
I thought the only monies due to DH was if we were to be promoted to the Premier League again? That is my understanding as well. This is your understanding for one very good reason - cos Mr Nagle said this. You're clearly an excellent listener! |
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