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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 18:29:15 GMT 1
Nagle isn't the one who needs the connections. That's why he hired Cartwright. And he does have connections. USA!!! USA!!!!!!!!!! idk man , I hope. Someone working in the USL does not give me confidence. You do know mate, Cartwright was at Stoke for a good few years. He worked there while they were in the prem, in the position he now occupies with us. He has also worked as an agent, he is well linked in with people. I do feel once the ffp rules loosen with us, he can show that. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 31, 2023 18:47:30 GMT 1
the locals think hes going. I hope that their locals are better informed than the locals around here are! No! These are normal intelligent people i work with  |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jul 31, 2023 19:32:30 GMT 1
I hope that their locals are better informed than the locals around here are! No! These are normal intelligent people i work with So let me get this straight, these locals are not better informed than the standard supporters we have. They may be right they may be wrong, but if they are not better informed then I guess they don't really know. Given the owners issues though, it would be reasonable to assume it is not going to be all sweetness and light for them this window. |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Jul 31, 2023 20:13:35 GMT 1
Dean would have caved in at £5M. This would test the mettle of the new owner and to what figure he would  our only jewel. Listen Dean Hoyle - wet his pants and let LOB go along with Toff for less than one of there release clauses. If Luton came in under DH for Nicholls for 50 quid, Hoyle would have personally driven him down.
Nagle was quite adamant that players leave and only leave, when the manager thinks he can either do better or its good for him and the player.
Nagle has taken us over, i asume from what him, edwards and cartwright have said, they do not want to fail. Plus we are missing the important point, of does Nichools actually want to leave ? this isn't notts forrest, its Luton. Who i will be shocked stay up. I will be shocked they can offer him life changing money. Nicholls got a big upgrade on his contract only a year ago, with an option. Forrest had a realistic chance of staying up, Luton is a different story.
A load of BS we had to bring in cash end of. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 20:28:22 GMT 1
Listen Dean Hoyle - wet his pants and let LOB go along with Toff for less than one of there release clauses. If Luton came in under DH for Nicholls for 50 quid, Hoyle would have personally driven him down.
Nagle was quite adamant that players leave and only leave, when the manager thinks he can either do better or its good for him and the player.
Nagle has taken us over, i asume from what him, edwards and cartwright have said, they do not want to fail. Plus we are missing the important point, of does Nichools actually want to leave ? this isn't notts forrest, its Luton. Who i will be shocked stay up. I will be shocked they can offer him life changing money. Nicholls got a big upgrade on his contract only a year ago, with an option. Forrest had a realistic chance of staying up, Luton is a different story.
A load of BS we had to bring in cash end of. No we actually didn't, Hoyle sold LOB/Toff to start to get his money back or as much of it as possible back. The club was not in finicial difficulity at all and could have easily asked for the full wack of cash for the pair. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jul 31, 2023 20:35:17 GMT 1
A load of BS we had to bring in cash end of. No we actually didn't, Hoyle sold LOB/Toff to start to get his money back or as much of it as possible back. The club was not in finicial difficulity at all and could have easily asked for the full wack of cash for the pair. I really struggle with this argument. Why would DH accept an amount clearly less than he could've got. How does he gain by that, whilst if it was so easy to get a higher fee, why didn't another lower-end EPL club come in with a higher offer. I can accept he maybe wobbled and could've held out longer, but it doesn't make any sense to have been so blatant. |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Jul 31, 2023 20:36:20 GMT 1
A load of BS we had to bring in cash end of. No we actually didn't, Hoyle sold LOB/Toff to start to get his money back or as much of it as possible back. The club was not in finicial difficulity at all and could have easily asked for the full wack of cash for the pair. Wow are you braindead we have had money issues for awhile and DH really got sod all of the money owed he was propping the club up and losing millions after PH company went belly up. Why do you think the club are having these issues if we were stable. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 20:41:12 GMT 1
No we actually didn't, Hoyle sold LOB/Toff to start to get his money back or as much of it as possible back. The club was not in finicial difficulity at all and could have easily asked for the full wack of cash for the pair. Wow are you braindead we have had money issues for awhile and DH really go sod all of the money owed he was propping the club up and losing millions after PH company went belly up. No your just stupid mate.
Money problems??? its how Hoyle/ PH put it yes. But the club itself still had revenue coming in and was still paying players, yes through hoyle. Hoyle did not put anymore money in than he had previous, he was putting 5m a year in , in his previous stint as owner.
Therefore the need to sell LOB for less than his worth or Toff for that matter, was not there, because if the need was that bad. Why did we sign Rudoni, Simpson and then Heilk for money? The fact is Hoyle could still fund the club easily, he just didn't want to anymore which is his right.
The way the club has been run by Hoyle and PH since the prem was a joke, we are all aware of this, the idea of selling players for less than there worth - to the point of pushing them out of the door was not and will never be needed.
BTW the braindead comment was not needed you thick mother ..... so rain it in lado.
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Jul 31, 2023 20:54:54 GMT 1
Wow are you braindead we have had money issues for awhile and DH really go sod all of the money owed he was propping the club up and losing millions after PH company went belly up. No your just stupid mate.
Money problems??? its how Hoyle/ PH put it yes. But the club itself still had revenue coming in and was still paying players, yes through hoyle. Hoyle did not put anymore money in than he had previous, he was putting 5m a year in , in his previous stint as owner.
Therefore the need to sell LOB for less than his worth or Toff for that matter, was not there, because if the need was that bad. Why did we sign Rudoni, Simpson and then Heilk for money? The fact is Hoyle could still fund the club easily, he just didn't want to anymore which is his right.
The way the club has been run by Hoyle and PH since the prem was a joke, we are all aware of this, the idea of selling players for less than there worth - to the point of pushing them out of the door was not and will never be needed.
BTW the braindead comment was not needed you thick mother ..... so rain it in lado.
If you post BS like that and can't get you're thickhead around the club losing money hand over fist then you are stupid getting our debts down have been a big issue since we came down and quite a few issues prevented this. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 21:02:41 GMT 1
No your just stupid mate.
Money problems??? its how Hoyle/ PH put it yes. But the club itself still had revenue coming in and was still paying players, yes through hoyle. Hoyle did not put anymore money in than he had previous, he was putting 5m a year in , in his previous stint as owner.
Therefore the need to sell LOB for less than his worth or Toff for that matter, was not there, because if the need was that bad. Why did we sign Rudoni, Simpson and then Heilk for money? The fact is Hoyle could still fund the club easily, he just didn't want to anymore which is his right.
The way the club has been run by Hoyle and PH since the prem was a joke, we are all aware of this, the idea of selling players for less than there worth - to the point of pushing them out of the door was not and will never be needed.
BTW the braindead comment was not needed you thick mother ..... so rain it in lado.
If you post BS like that and can't get you're thickhead around the club losing money hand over fist then you are stupid getting our debts down have been a big issue since we came down and quite a few issues prevented this. The debt was to DH and DH only.
We have sold players?
DH was owed 40m- that came down over the last 3/4 years , due to player sales, the playing squad wage bill has also come down massively.
Yes when we left the prem, PH had a huge wage bill for the club of our size to trim down, which he did.
The point i am making is the club would not have folded, as DH could easily afford the 5m/ 10m per year to fill in the gaps, the difference is he didn't want to any longer. Therefore sold players (for less than they were worth) to fund the club. For example in previous season prior to the prem - We sold Butterfield,coady, smithies - that wasn't to keep the club running . that was to fund what is now "the wagner reveloution".
There are reasons why Hoyle walked away from the rest of his owed cash, reason town fans will never know.
The fact is Hoyle could have funded the club this season/ last season without sales, he jsut didn't want to. He was going to put the club into administration due to , not wanting to pay PH his share of the club no other reason. It was a scare tactic , then became a real possibility, it wasn't due to Hoyle not been able to more he didn't want to run the club anymore.
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wildhogg
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by wildhogg on Jul 31, 2023 21:02:42 GMT 1
Nicholls being sold, particularly at this stage, would most likely cause absolute uproar. I think the only way to adequately soften the blow and preserve any sense of goodwill towards the new ownership would be a public guarantee of the entire fee being reinvested in the playing squad prior to the window closing.
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 21:03:38 GMT 1
Nicholls being sold, particularly at this stage, would most likely cause absolute uproar. I think the only way to adequately soften the blow and preserve any sense of goodwill towards the new ownership would be a public guarantee of the entire fee being reinvested in the playing squad prior to the window closing. Warnock is talking like Nicholls will be here, so i will go with NW on this one. |
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Wingman on Jul 31, 2023 21:04:47 GMT 1
He has previous experience in this country with Stoke, I must admit the idea of appointing English staff who have been working in the USL doesn't necessarily suggest we're getting the best, but way too early to judge and they seem to have a good working relationship with one and other which will hopefully help. To be fair to Cartwright it seems there are some serious constraints when it comes to wages/fees which will make an already difficult job even harder. Unless of course they're playing hardball and about to unveil 3 new quality signings. I wonder how many more we need to get shut of & loan out before we can sign 1 more? We need players to want to join us also, it's not all down to finances. You can take a horse to water...etc. |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Jul 31, 2023 21:11:51 GMT 1
If you post BS like that and can't get you're thickhead around the club losing money hand over fist then you are stupid getting our debts down have been a big issue since we came down and quite a few issues prevented this. The debt was to DH and DH only.
We have sold players? DH was owed 40m- that came down over the last 3/4 years , due to player sales, the playing squad wage bill has also come down massively.
Yes when we left the prem, PH had a huge wage bill for the club of our size to trim down, which he did. The point i am making is the club would not have folded, as DH could easily afford the 5m/ 10m per year to fill in the gaps, the difference is he didn't want to any longer. Therefore sold players (for less than they were worth) to fund the club. For example in previous season prior to the prem - We sold Butterfield,coady, smithies - that wasn't to keep the club running . that was to fund what is now "the wagner reveloution".
There are reasons why Hoyle walked away from the rest of his owed cash, reason town fans will never know.
The fact is Hoyle could have funded the club this season/ last season without sales, he jsut didn't want to. He was going to put the club into administration due to , not wanting to pay PH his share of the club no other reason. It was a scare tactic , then became a real possibility, it wasn't due to Hoyle not been able to more he didn't want to run the club anymore.
Wrong again the deal with KN was he paid off the club bank loans off. And due to DH sorting out the major problem with the PH lawyers we have a fresh start. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 21:27:12 GMT 1
The debt was to DH and DH only.
We have sold players? DH was owed 40m- that came down over the last 3/4 years , due to player sales, the playing squad wage bill has also come down massively.
Yes when we left the prem, PH had a huge wage bill for the club of our size to trim down, which he did. The point i am making is the club would not have folded, as DH could easily afford the 5m/ 10m per year to fill in the gaps, the difference is he didn't want to any longer. Therefore sold players (for less than they were worth) to fund the club. For example in previous season prior to the prem - We sold Butterfield,coady, smithies - that wasn't to keep the club running . that was to fund what is now "the wagner reveloution".
There are reasons why Hoyle walked away from the rest of his owed cash, reason town fans will never know.
The fact is Hoyle could have funded the club this season/ last season without sales, he jsut didn't want to. He was going to put the club into administration due to , not wanting to pay PH his share of the club no other reason. It was a scare tactic , then became a real possibility, it wasn't due to Hoyle not been able to more he didn't want to run the club anymore.
Wrong again the deal with KN was he paid off the club bank loans off. And due to DH sorting out the major problem with the PH lawyers we have a fresh start. Not gonna argue a point that you make that isn't vaild .... |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on Jul 31, 2023 21:31:37 GMT 1
When we signed Maxwell I immediately thought if Nicholls goes he will be our #1 for the season with Chapman backup. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s why we signed him. We signed Maxwell because Bilo wanted to play more games ie move to where he’s playing consistently. We signed Maxwell as an experienced number 2. Yes Bilo was wanting game time. But he thought he was going to Posh on loan until the day of the deal…..things happen quickly though….. Bilo didn’t particularly want to leave us. Shame he did. But, that’s football. |
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arry11
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by arry11 on Jul 31, 2023 21:34:42 GMT 1
Wrong again the deal with KN was he paid off the club bank loans off. And due to DH sorting out the major problem with the PH lawyers we have a fresh start. Not gonna argue a point that you make that isn't vaild .... May be you should read the accounts we owed the bank 12.5M which had been drastically reduced over a good few years and KN paid that debt off and would Pay DH a fee if we return to the Prem. |
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 31, 2023 22:02:19 GMT 1
Don't buy a football club if you aren't prepared to fund it. Simple
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 31, 2023 22:26:31 GMT 1
Don't buy a football club if you aren't prepared to fund it. Simple To what extent do you think there should be an obligation to fund ? I've been a bit dubious of these guys from day one . You won't find any "he's great he eats at Marstons and talks to us online " posts from me . But to be fair to him I do wonder what we expect and whether those expectations are fair . Were there other people gagging to lose money when his consortium was identified ? I dunno . You may know more than me The talk was that we were "at the brink" . Maybe some of that was "talk" . Again I don't know I wasn't there . Maybe you know more ? I just don't know what people expect and why there is a belief that others are queuing up to step into their shoes |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 31, 2023 22:28:21 GMT 1
Don't buy a football club if you aren't prepared to fund it. Simple To what extent do you think there should be an obligation to fund ? I've been a bit dubious of these guys from day one . You won't find any "he's great he eats at Marstons and talks to us online " posts from me . But to be fair to him I do wonder what we expect and whether those expectations are fair . Were there other people gagging to lose money when his consortium was identified ? I dunno . You may know more than me The talk was that we were "at the brink" . Maybe some of that was "talk" . Again I don't know I wasn't there . Maybe you know more ? I just don't know what people expect and why there is a belief that others are queuing up to step into their shoes To be fair to Nagle- Baldwin came to him and offered him the club. |
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 31, 2023 22:38:54 GMT 1
Don't buy a football club if you aren't prepared to fund it. Simple To what extent do you think there should be an obligation to fund ? I've been a bit dubious of these guys from day one . You won't find any "he's great he eats at Marstons and talks to us online " posts from me . But to be fair to him I do wonder what we expect and whether those expectations are fair . Were there other people gagging to lose money when his consortium was identified ? I dunno . You may know more than me The talk was that we were "at the brink" . Maybe some of that was "talk" . Again I don't know I wasn't there . Maybe you know more ? I just don't know what people expect and why there is a belief that others are queuing up to step into their shoes To be fair my post wasn't aimed at KN it was aimed at Dean Hoyle. For what it's worth I like KN. His interaction with the fans is second to none. Nobody knows why we are so severely hamstrung but he makes all the right noises and Warnock obviously believes in him which is good enough for me. With Dean Hoyle he burst onto the scene with these promises of signing players if we bought the tickets then oversaw a transition to the Premier League most fans never dreamed they would see and I am eternally grateful for that. Equally though he has to bear the responsibility of just how much of a catastrophic shitshow it has been since we were relegated. I know he was ill and I hope to god he is fit and healthy, but it was like one day he decided he no longer wanted to fund the club anymore but furthermore he wanted the money back he had put in. With 100 million quids worth of dud signings and a ridiculous wage bill, our safety net parachute payments were earmarked for paying off his debt at a time we desperately needed stability. All of this financial disparity is (in my opinion) down to him. I know he loves the club but severe mistakes have been made. We seem to be not only treading water but flailing like mad just to stay a championship club. Our future should have been so much better. |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jul 31, 2023 22:41:18 GMT 1
I have no idea why we became the Apple of Big Kev's eye, but one thing I am sure of...he sure as hell isn't interested in using Town as a vehicle for shovelling cash down a big hole.
We will know better in a years time. Chaps, set your reminders!
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 31, 2023 22:52:33 GMT 1
To what extent do you think there should be an obligation to fund ? I've been a bit dubious of these guys from day one . You won't find any "he's great he eats at Marstons and talks to us online " posts from me . But to be fair to him I do wonder what we expect and whether those expectations are fair . Were there other people gagging to lose money when his consortium was identified ? I dunno . You may know more than me The talk was that we were "at the brink" . Maybe some of that was "talk" . Again I don't know I wasn't there . Maybe you know more ? I just don't know what people expect and why there is a belief that others are queuing up to step into their shoes To be fair my post wasn't aimed at KN it was aimed at Dean Hoyle. For what it's worth I like KN. His interaction with the fans is second to none. Nobody knows why we are so severely hamstrung but he makes all the right noises and Warnock obviously believes in him which is good enough for me. With Dean Hoyle he burst onto the scene with these promises of signing players if we bought the tickets then oversaw a transition to the Premier League most fans never dreamed they would see and I am eternally grateful for that. Equally though he has to bear the responsibility of just how much of a catastrophic shitshow it has been since we were relegated. I know he was ill and I hope to god he is fit and healthy, but it was like one day he decided he no longer wanted to fund the club anymore but furthermore he wanted the money back he had put in. With 100 million quids worth of dud signings and a ridiculous wage bill, our safety net parachute payments were earmarked for paying off his debt at a time we desperately needed stability. All of this financial disparity is (in my opinion) down to him. I know he loves the club but severe mistakes have been made. We seem to be not only treading water but flailing like mad just to stay a championship club. Our future should have been so much better. I wasn't having a go I was just asking a few questions. Before Hoyle we had Davy and I don't think I've ever been as bored with town . To the extent that I stopped going for a bit. Before Davy we had people walking around with buckets . Everyone makes mistakes but in the context of it all the existence of Dean Hoyle has been massively positive for our club . I didn't expect warnock to agree to another season . When he did I assumed he'd been tempted by a war chest that gave him "one last shot". I'm not sure why he pushed his missus to let him have a season of "consolidation" whereby 17th would be seen as a success. So tbh I'm a bit gutted cos I'd got my hopes up . But it is what it is . We can't expect folk to throw money at things just to please us |
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 31, 2023 23:02:38 GMT 1
To be fair my post wasn't aimed at KN it was aimed at Dean Hoyle. For what it's worth I like KN. His interaction with the fans is second to none. Nobody knows why we are so severely hamstrung but he makes all the right noises and Warnock obviously believes in him which is good enough for me. With Dean Hoyle he burst onto the scene with these promises of signing players if we bought the tickets then oversaw a transition to the Premier League most fans never dreamed they would see and I am eternally grateful for that. Equally though he has to bear the responsibility of just how much of a catastrophic shitshow it has been since we were relegated. I know he was ill and I hope to god he is fit and healthy, but it was like one day he decided he no longer wanted to fund the club anymore but furthermore he wanted the money back he had put in. With 100 million quids worth of dud signings and a ridiculous wage bill, our safety net parachute payments were earmarked for paying off his debt at a time we desperately needed stability. All of this financial disparity is (in my opinion) down to him. I know he loves the club but severe mistakes have been made. We seem to be not only treading water but flailing like mad just to stay a championship club. Our future should have been so much better. I wasn't having a go I was just asking a few questions. Before Hoyle we had Davy and I don't think I've ever been as bored with town . To the extent that I stopped going for a bit. Before Davy we had people walking around with buckets . Everyone makes mistakes but in the context of it all the existence of Dean Hoyle has been massively positive for our club . I didn't expect warnock to agree to another season . When he did I assumed he'd been tempted by a war chest that gave him "one last shot". I'm not sure why he pushed his missus to let him have a season of "consolidation" whereby 17th would be seen as a success. So tbh I'm a bit gutted cos I'd got my hopes up . But it is what it is . We can't expect folk to throw money at things just to please us I dont expect money to be thrown either. The way I see it is that there is a responsibility of the owners to make sure we have a competitive team. I buy a season ticket for entertainment value, not to think about balance sheets and income streams. We now have a weaker squad than last season. (Those who point to players returning from injury fail to remember how poor we were before they were injured). We have shaved 10s of thousands off the wage bill and we are maybe perhaps able to sign another player. The squad is so painfully thin and last season showed us that we are not immune to injuries. How do we get rid of the numbers of players that we have and still push the poor line? There is something absolutely not right there and anyone who thinks that's normal must have more knowledge of the facts than I do. I look forward to Plymouth and the rest if the season with hope, not expectation. I wish I felt more optimistic but the realist in me says its going to be a very very difficult season. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 31, 2023 23:10:38 GMT 1
How do we get rid of the numbers of players that we have and still push the poor line?
Maybe we were losing money hand over fist last season ?
Do you think the yank is squirrelling a small fortune? I doubt it .
I'm sure we will sign a couple of players . I'm sure we've been trying to do it for the last x amount of months. It looks to me increasingly likely that we will be going down the loan route . Personally I'd be fine with this but it does leave us thin for Saturday .
I think we will get pummelled tbh
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 31, 2023 23:13:47 GMT 1
How do we get rid of the numbers of players that we have and still push the poor line? Maybe we were losing money hand over fist last season ? Do you think the yank is squirrelling a small fortune? I doubt it . I'm sure we will sign a couple of players . I'm sure we've been trying to do it for the last x amount of months. It looks to me increasingly likely that we will be going down the loan route . Personally I'd be fine with this but it does leave us thin for Saturday . I think we will get pummelled tbh I don't think he is squirreling anything, I think he is hamstrung but (and its just my hunch) I don't think we should be to the extent that we are. By championship standards we spend a low amount on wages and transfer fees. We have a large number of season ticket holders (albeit on subsidised fees) and we make money on selling players. What makes us so much worse off than your Lutons or Millwalls? |
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 31, 2023 23:15:17 GMT 1
How do we get rid of the numbers of players that we have and still push the poor line? Maybe we were losing money hand over fist last season ? Do you think the yank is squirrelling a small fortune? I doubt it . I'm sure we will sign a couple of players . I'm sure we've been trying to do it for the last x amount of months. It looks to me increasingly likely that we will be going down the loan route . Personally I'd be fine with this but it does leave us thin for Saturday . I think we will get pummelled tbh I don't think we will be pummelled at all. I think we will be solid and very hard for teams to break down. Once injuries start kicking in though, that's a different story. |
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wildhogg
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by wildhogg on Jul 31, 2023 23:20:40 GMT 1
Anyone expecting us to be splashing the cash after the takeover was always going to be way off the mark. However, I think even the least optimistic ones among us had expected that we might have forked out a few million on maybe two or three of the better-known names from League One - maybe Jonson-Harris from Peterborough or Cameron Brannigan from Oxford, for example. We still could, but surely we'd have done so already if the money was available. I'm expecting a Premier League rookie loan as a gamble reinforcement up-front, that's the best I think we can hope for.
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Post by townrwe on Aug 1, 2023 1:08:29 GMT 1
I can see us filling our loan spaces and that been that.... with those not in the reckoning like Rhodes,mahoney etc moving on.
If we get lucky.....Great, if not its a season of struggles.
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ldotm
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by ldotm on Aug 1, 2023 6:23:39 GMT 1
We should be all over this
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our only jewel.
