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Post by bluestripe on Feb 7, 2024 23:34:48 GMT 1
Hare coursing and fox hunting were criminalised at the same time (in 2004), so I genuinely don't understand your point there. You don’t? Then why does fox hunting continue unabashed and without prosecution? I knew absolutely nothing about hunting & coursing with animals before this evening, as it sounds about as interesting and fulfilling as tiddlywinks. But having read this article, I can now understand the point you are making. protectthewild.org.uk/news/hare-coursing-and-hare-hunting-police-bias/ |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Feb 7, 2024 23:51:22 GMT 1
The kid has talent but clearly is a prat away from the pitch. He’ll either be a rough diamond that can be buffed and polished up, or he will end up back in amateur football throwing away the chance he has. I think if there is something else waiting to come out, and the club are aware, they need to be moving him on this Summer one way or another. We jettisoned Hammill (correctly) and we don’t need kids sullying the club’s name. Give him support but make him aware his time is up at the club. We didn't jettison Adam Hammill. He twatted the (female) paramedics whilst he was on loan here and then we not only didn't cut the loan short, we signed him permanently afterwards. We also signed Danny Simpson, knowing that he had strangled his girlfriend. It seems like Kian Harratt is naive, possibly has ADHD or at least poor impulse control but unless this "other thing" is a lot more serious than the stuff we know about, we've taken on far worse human beings than him. |
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Post by Fish & Chips on Feb 8, 2024 0:05:15 GMT 1
The hypocrisy of it all. Football rakes in millions to promote the gambling industry. Wherever you look around football you're being told that gambling is good. And when, shock horror, one young player is actually affected by that (a total of around £8,000 over 4 years) he's hung out to dry. Shameful. If we don't want gambling in football, let's target the real villains. The greedy old bastards who can't say 'no' to the industry's bribes. "KH feels that the ubiquity of gambling sponsorship in football adds to the normality of gambling, and particularly following a specific gambling sponsorship campaign involving Huddersfield Town FC in June 2019." Exactly this, well said. |
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Post by DuncShearer* on Feb 8, 2024 5:11:23 GMT 1
Clearly a lost cause, get rid. 100% agree get shut everyone deserves a chance he's had his and fucked up again. |
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Post by rockwall on Feb 8, 2024 7:57:02 GMT 1
Hypocrisy everywhere.
Half of you will have had a flutter on the next manager....
Some will be part of big shoots on a weekend.
As some of the rational posters have said, issue is those above allowing gambling to take control with sponsorship.
It's like going to an AA meeting and being offered champagne on arrival.
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Post by kennyk2 on Feb 8, 2024 8:27:35 GMT 1
As a Victorian Dad I'd expected my own response to be one of hanging's too good for him. But... jeez! He's only 21. A pretty stupid thing to do (don't professional footballers get briefings on gambling?), but I hark back to the stuff that I did at that age and there for the grace of God got away with it.
There is a footballer in there and he's going to need some careful management now (again!). It would be so easy to get rid, but much better for the club to try and get him through this. We're in the last chance saloon though.
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Post by huddstownonly on Feb 8, 2024 9:08:33 GMT 1
On balance I feel we should remove/ release him from the club and hope this sends the message that he needs to sort himself out once and for all if he wishes to be a footballer which can become a bit of a role model and influence on younger kids if you are successful. Equally I have not seen anything much to think he will be a championship regular so irrespective of this gambling matter we should support him to move him along asap for him to have a fresh start at a lower level next season.
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Post by specialun on Feb 8, 2024 10:08:03 GMT 1
Interesting his ban was reduced from an Initial 8 to 4 months
….in terms of his age, "inexperience and naivety", and the fact he admitted to the charges immediately, plus positive character statements, a show of remorse and good disciplinary record, saw a downward adjustment of the ban to four months….
Part of that made me laugh!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2024 10:23:20 GMT 1
Hypocrisy everywhere. Half of you will have had a flutter on the next manager.... Some will be part of big shoots on a weekend. As some of the rational posters have said, issue is those above allowing gambling to take control with sponsorship. It's like going to an AA meeting and being offered champagne on arrival. Also some posters on various social media who support / suffer from mental health, openly joining on the 'pile on' to 'Sack him' / 'get rid' / 'he's toxic'.... Total hypocrisy. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2024 10:26:25 GMT 1
Interesting his ban was reduced from an Initial 8 to 4 months ….in terms of his age, "inexperience and naivety", and the fact he admitted to the charges immediately, plus positive character statements, a show of remorse and good disciplinary record, saw a downward adjustment of the ban to four months…. Part of that made me laugh! Positive character statements,his mum said he's a lovely lad. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 8, 2024 10:26:31 GMT 1
Hypocrisy everywhere. Half of you will have had a flutter on the next manager.... Some will be part of big shoots on a weekend. As some of the rational posters have said, issue is those above allowing gambling to take control with sponsorship. It's like going to an AA meeting and being offered champagne on arrival. A footballer betting on random sporting events yes I get it , but mobody in todays world could be that stupid to bet on his own team or even worse against his own team at 3 different clubs and not realise it’s insider trading, he’s got an advantage. If you work at a company and get information you’re getting bought out and then invest in that company on the stock market you can go to jail. He isn’t a random supporter, he is using his club knowledge to gain advantage in the betting world and it’s so publicly known that he would be possibly banned you need your head literally shaking to do this. Where’s the hypocrisy if a fan even if he/she as had a bet in life ( we are allowed) , isn’t happy with his repeated low standards of behaviour. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 8, 2024 10:30:13 GMT 1
The hypocrisy of it all. Football rakes in millions to promote the gambling industry. Wherever you look around football you're being told that gambling is good. And when, shock horror, one young player is actually affected by that (a total of around £8,000 over 4 years) he's hung out to dry. Shameful. If we don't want gambling in football, let's target the real villains. The greedy old bastards who can't say 'no' to the industry's bribes. "KH feels that the ubiquity of gambling sponsorship in football adds to the normality of gambling, and particularly following a specific gambling sponsorship campaign involving Huddersfield Town FC in June 2019." The problem isnt him gambling..its him gambling on football..a game hes involved in and could potentially effect the result of, either directly by his own actions, or through the many contacts he'll have in the game. Its about trying to protect the integrity of the game and avoid situations such as have happened in cricket. If he wants to gamble there are countless other things he could get his fix on. But he isnt allowed to gamble on football..he knew that and the reasons are obvious. And hes hardly been hung out to dry. A 4 month ban is incredibly lenient IMO, probably because of his age. |
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Feb 8, 2024 10:35:32 GMT 1
Hypocrisy everywhere. Half of you will have had a flutter on the next manager.... Some will be part of big shoots on a weekend. As some of the rational posters have said, issue is those above allowing gambling to take control with sponsorship. It's like going to an AA meeting and being offered champagne on arrival. Also some posters on various social media who support / suffer from mental health, openly joining on the 'pile on' to 'Sack him' / 'get rid' / 'he's toxic'.... Total hypocrisy. I have to disagree to an extent here, for me it’s a poor comparison you’ve made. Poor mental health is not a choice. Gambling for many is a choice. No-one chooses to feel like shit on a daily basis. It’s a very deep well that you cannot immediately crawl out of. If Harratt had come out and said he had a gambling addiction, as Toney did, there would have been more sympathetic responses. No doubt about it. I would personally have cut him more slack too (not that my take matters here). He hasn’t, he’s made bets after full gambling awareness training and continued to bet, even on his multiple employers over and over. Naive stupidity and therefore deserves criticism. He does need support to learn and overcome whatever obstacles to his grasp of his behaviour it takes, but now it would be a good move all round - as things stand - for him to restart his career elsewhere. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Feb 8, 2024 10:40:39 GMT 1
The hypocrisy of it all. Football rakes in millions to promote the gambling industry. Wherever you look around football you're being told that gambling is good. And when, shock horror, one young player is actually affected by that (a total of around £8,000 over 4 years) he's hung out to dry. Shameful. If we don't want gambling in football, let's target the real villains. The greedy old bastards who can't say 'no' to the industry's bribes. "KH feels that the ubiquity of gambling sponsorship in football adds to the normality of gambling, and particularly following a specific gambling sponsorship campaign involving Huddersfield Town FC in June 2019." The problem isnt him gambling..its him gambling on football..a game hes involved in and could potentially effect the result of, either directly by his own actions, or through the many contacts he'll have in the game. Its about trying to protect the integrity of the game and avoid situations such as have happened in cricket. If he wants to gamble there are countless other things he could get his fix on. But he isnt allowed to gamble on football..he knew that and the reasons are obvious. And hes hardly been hung out to dry. A 4 month ban is incredibly lenient IMO, probably because of his age. He was injured as well so the ban is very lenient , if the fans and his employers are not getting into him and telling him how wrong his actions are then he’s done in football. Grow up KH or your career is over before it’s started. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Feb 8, 2024 10:40:58 GMT 1
The hypocrisy of it all. Football rakes in millions to promote the gambling industry. Wherever you look around football you're being told that gambling is good. And when, shock horror, one young player is actually affected by that (a total of around £8,000 over 4 years) he's hung out to dry. Shameful. If we don't want gambling in football, let's target the real villains. The greedy old bastards who can't say 'no' to the industry's bribes. "KH feels that the ubiquity of gambling sponsorship in football adds to the normality of gambling, and particularly following a specific gambling sponsorship campaign involving Huddersfield Town FC in June 2019." I agree with this 100%. On Sky Sports News they did the long interview with Ivan Tony just before he came back from his ban for gambling. The interview ended and it went to an add break. The first advert that came on??? Yep you've guessed it, a gambling one!!!!!!!  |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Feb 8, 2024 10:51:45 GMT 1
Can I ask people's opinion on Harry Toffolo?
He was caught betting on football matches. Including 40 best placed on his own team, 15 of them against his own team? What is your opinion on the punishment (or lack of) handed to him? Should Forrest have got rid of him and if they did, would you have welcomed him back at Town?
Going on the theme of insider trading mentioned above (which is a good point and one of the reasons players can't bet on football), should Toff potentially have gone to jail?
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Post by ringdisco on Feb 8, 2024 10:56:18 GMT 1
I wonder what gave him the idea to bet on the SkyBet EFL? Embarrassing, isn't it. Toney back after his ban and straight into a shirt with betting ads on. |
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Post by rockwall on Feb 8, 2024 12:03:05 GMT 1
Also some posters on various social media who support / suffer from mental health, openly joining on the 'pile on' to 'Sack him' / 'get rid' / 'he's toxic'.... Total hypocrisy. I have to disagree to an extent here, for me it’s a poor comparison you’ve made. Poor mental health is not a choice. Gambling for many is a choice. No-one chooses to feel like shit on a daily basis. It’s a very deep well that you cannot immediately crawl out of. If Harratt had come out and said he had a gambling addiction, as Toney did, there would have been more sympathetic responses. No doubt about it. I would personally have cut him more slack too (not that my take matters here). He hasn’t, he’s made bets after full gambling awareness training and continued to bet, even on his multiple employers over and over. Naive stupidity and therefore deserves criticism. He does need support to learn and overcome whatever obstacles to his grasp of his behaviour it takes, but now it would be a good move all round - as things stand - for him to restart his career elsewhere. Come on Wingman, 2 of the main root causes of poor mental health are gambling and alcohol, so I really don't understand how you can say that. Yes, they are choices, so are drugs etc. But for some with poor mental health, it's the addictions that they go to or the addictions that are causing it. |
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Post by monkbar on Feb 8, 2024 12:10:41 GMT 1
Can I ask people's opinion on Harry Toffolo? He was caught betting on football matches. Including 40 best placed on his own team, 15 of them against his own team? What is your opinion on the punishment (or lack of) handed to him? Should Forrest have got rid of him and if they did, would you have welcomed him back at Town? Going on the theme of insider trading mentioned above (which is a good point and one of the reasons players can't bet on football), should Toff potentially have gone to jail? I think that would only happen if it could be proved that he influenced the outcome of the bet, i.e. fixing. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2024 12:14:11 GMT 1
Can I ask people's opinion on Harry Toffolo? He was caught betting on football matches. Including 40 best placed on his own team, 15 of them against his own team? What is your opinion on the punishment (or lack of) handed to him? Should Forrest have got rid of him and if they did, would you have welcomed him back at Town? Going on the theme of insider trading mentioned above (which is a good point and one of the reasons players can't bet on football), should Toff potentially have gone to jail? Toffolo's offences were retrospective. Committed between 2014-2017 when he was at Norwich. He was comparitively young and constantly out on loan and away from home. These things were seen, to some extent, as mitigating circumstances. Only 17 of his 375 bets fell into the category which would mean a ban. He said betting was a constant topic of conversation in the dressing rooms he was in and he saw it as part of fitting in. He had no betting awareness training and it would appear he stopped betting after 2017. These are the reasons he was fined and his ban suspended. I don't know the details of Harratt's betting but it appears to be current and also, given he has been banned, deemed worse than Toffolo's. My concern is his general attitude to the law, and perhaps rules in general, and what effect that may have on other young players. Toffolo, on the other hand, seems to have sorted himself out. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 8, 2024 12:17:17 GMT 1
Can I ask people's opinion on Harry Toffolo? He was caught betting on football matches. Including 40 best placed on his own team, 15 of them against his own team? What is your opinion on the punishment (or lack of) handed to him? Should Forrest have got rid of him and if they did, would you have welcomed him back at Town? Going on the theme of insider trading mentioned above (which is a good point and one of the reasons players can't bet on football), should Toff potentially have gone to jail? I thought the punishment..or effectively no punishment , was amazing. If I ever need a lawyer Ill try and get in touch with him for the name of his. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 8, 2024 12:20:57 GMT 1
I have to disagree to an extent here, for me it’s a poor comparison you’ve made. Poor mental health is not a choice. Gambling for many is a choice. No-one chooses to feel like shit on a daily basis. It’s a very deep well that you cannot immediately crawl out of. If Harratt had come out and said he had a gambling addiction, as Toney did, there would have been more sympathetic responses. No doubt about it. I would personally have cut him more slack too (not that my take matters here). He hasn’t, he’s made bets after full gambling awareness training and continued to bet, even on his multiple employers over and over. Naive stupidity and therefore deserves criticism. He does need support to learn and overcome whatever obstacles to his grasp of his behaviour it takes, but now it would be a good move all round - as things stand - for him to restart his career elsewhere. Come on Wingman, 2 of the main root causes of poor mental health are gambling and alcohol, so I really don't understand how you can say that. Yes, they are choices, so are drugs etc. But for some with poor mental health, it's the addictions that they go to or the addictions that are causing it. But if youre addicted to gambling and a footballer ( an easy thing for a lawyer to claim that cant really be disproved ) , there are countless other things you can gamble on. They all know they arent allowed to gamble on football, so addict or not theres a lot of arrogance that somehow the rules dont apply to them. |
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Post by dugnet on Feb 8, 2024 12:34:47 GMT 1
It's very easy to form a judgement on someone but to what extent is KH bad or stupid/needs guidance? Unless you are around him or know him it's not entirely fair to be so damning. He is however getting the reputation of being, at least, being a bit of a pain in the @rse. At some point the club will say "sorry son we aren't prepared to put up with this any longer" but if they are prepared to invest some time in him they must think it worthwhile. Both as a footballer and a person.
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Post by townarentbest on Feb 8, 2024 12:43:56 GMT 1
Hypocrisy everywhere. Half of you will have had a flutter on the next manager.... Some will be part of big shoots on a weekend. As some of the rational posters have said, issue is those above allowing gambling to take control with sponsorship. It's like going to an AA meeting and being offered champagne on arrival. We're not professional footballers. As a fan of football in the hour before games I drink beer from some brands that may happen to sponsor Hudds Town. Do footballers routinely do that too? He's seen and read about Phil Hodgkinson being charged and the delays it caused to his takeover of the club, he's seen and heard about Harry Toffolo and Ivan Toney and others, and yet he continued betting until AT LEAST June 2023. He 100% has known that as a professional footballer he's not allowed to do it and has done it anyway...any declaration of the opposite is utter codswallop. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 8, 2024 12:49:34 GMT 1
It's very easy to form a judgement on someone but to what extent is KH bad or stupid/needs guidance? Unless you are around him or know him it's not entirely fair to be so damning. He is however getting the reputation of being, at least, being a bit of a pain in the @rse. At some point the club will say "sorry son we aren't prepared to put up with this any longer" but if they are prepared to invest some time in him they must think it worthwhile. Both as a footballer and a person. Thats true, but on a business level Im not seeing what hes done on the pitch for the club to continue putting up with these shenanigans from him. They must rate him higher than I do. |
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Feb 8, 2024 12:50:42 GMT 1
I have to disagree to an extent here, for me it’s a poor comparison you’ve made. Poor mental health is not a choice. Gambling for many is a choice. No-one chooses to feel like shit on a daily basis. It’s a very deep well that you cannot immediately crawl out of. If Harratt had come out and said he had a gambling addiction, as Toney did, there would have been more sympathetic responses. No doubt about it. I would personally have cut him more slack too (not that my take matters here). He hasn’t, he’s made bets after full gambling awareness training and continued to bet, even on his multiple employers over and over. Naive stupidity and therefore deserves criticism. He does need support to learn and overcome whatever obstacles to his grasp of his behaviour it takes, but now it would be a good move all round - as things stand - for him to restart his career elsewhere. Come on Wingman, 2 of the main root causes of poor mental health are gambling and alcohol, so I really don't understand how you can say that. Yes, they are choices, so are drugs etc. But for some with poor mental health, it's the addictions that they go to or the addictions that are causing it. I'm not disgreeing entirely with you, I just felt it wasn't the right comparison. If Harratt had said 'I have a problem here, I can't control it' then of course you'd sympathise. It comes across as naivety and plain stupidity. I have every sympathy for those struggling with booze, gambling, and the rest, because I've worked with them and helped them with the training I've had. The club are going to support him which is good, but this isn't an isolated incident with the kid. Hare coarsing first, now this, and maybe something else that has been alluded to. Where do you draw the line if he shows no signs of learning? I'm all for a second chance, but it feels like he would be better off with a new start. I genuinely hope he can sort himself out and carve a career for himself but many, many kids have ended up on the scrapheap for much less. He really risks throwing it all away. |
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Post by dugnet on Feb 8, 2024 12:53:54 GMT 1
It's very easy to form a judgement on someone but to what extent is KH bad or stupid/needs guidance? Unless you are around him or know him it's not entirely fair to be so damning. He is however getting the reputation of being, at least, being a bit of a pain in the @rse. At some point the club will say "sorry son we aren't prepared to put up with this any longer" but if they are prepared to invest some time in him they must think it worthwhile. Both as a footballer and a person. Thats true, but on a business level Im not seeing what hes done on the pitch for the club to continue putting up with these shenanigans from him. They must rate him higher than I do. From what I have seen he does have a strikers instinct and can finish, can he do it at Championship level? That's something that will have to be determined in the next 18 months (if he stays). They may think he's a essentially a good kid but needs some guidance and they are giving him a chance/showing a degree of duty of care. That all said he must be close to the "last chance saloon" both on and off the pitch. |
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Post by dm on Feb 8, 2024 13:25:21 GMT 1
I have to disagree to an extent here, for me it’s a poor comparison you’ve made. Poor mental health is not a choice. Gambling for many is a choice. No-one chooses to feel like shit on a daily basis. It’s a very deep well that you cannot immediately crawl out of. If Harratt had come out and said he had a gambling addiction, as Toney did, there would have been more sympathetic responses. No doubt about it. I would personally have cut him more slack too (not that my take matters here). He hasn’t, he’s made bets after full gambling awareness training and continued to bet, even on his multiple employers over and over. Naive stupidity and therefore deserves criticism. He does need support to learn and overcome whatever obstacles to his grasp of his behaviour it takes, but now it would be a good move all round - as things stand - for him to restart his career elsewhere. Come on Wingman, 2 of the main root causes of poor mental health are gambling and alcohol, so I really don't understand how you can say that. Yes, they are choices, so are drugs etc. But for some with poor mental health, it's the addictions that they go to or the addictions that are causing it. Where has that load of bollocks come from? |
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Post by rockwall on Feb 8, 2024 13:35:22 GMT 1
Come on Wingman, 2 of the main root causes of poor mental health are gambling and alcohol, so I really don't understand how you can say that. Yes, they are choices, so are drugs etc. But for some with poor mental health, it's the addictions that they go to or the addictions that are causing it. But if youre addicted to gambling and a footballer ( an easy thing for a lawyer to claim that cant really be disproved ) , there are countless other things you can gamble on. They all know they arent allowed to gamble on football, so addict or not theres a lot of arrogance that somehow the rules dont apply to them. People know not to drink and drive. People know not to use mobile phones whilst driving. People know that their children under the age of 13 shouldn't have social media. But a lot of people still do it. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Feb 8, 2024 13:49:40 GMT 1
Can I ask people's opinion on Harry Toffolo? He was caught betting on football matches. Including 40 best placed on his own team, 15 of them against his own team? What is your opinion on the punishment (or lack of) handed to him? Should Forrest have got rid of him and if they did, would you have welcomed him back at Town? Going on the theme of insider trading mentioned above (which is a good point and one of the reasons players can't bet on football), should Toff potentially have gone to jail? I think that would only happen if it could be proved that he influenced the outcome of the bet, i.e. fixing. Agreed. However, a post above seemed to suggest that Kian's actions were tantamount to insider trading, which can carry a jail term. The investigation into Kian's bets cleared him of any inside knowledge when betting on Town. I don't see many differences between what Kian has done and what Toff did. Non of us know what Toff was like at that age. They were both a similar age when they did it. They both bet on their own team They both bet against their own team They were both at times during the period it happened out on loan and living away from home (Kian at Port Vale). However, I would 'bet' that all those criticising Kian and saying get rid, would have not been saying that about Toff if his offences came to light whilst he was with us and the best left back in the league & all round good guy. And I would 'bet' that they would also happily have him re-join Huddersfield Town now if the opportunity arose. So why are people so keen to get rid of Kian......Young lad that's fucked up yes, but as yet, I'm not sure he's done anything to warrant getting rid. |
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