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Post by runner76 on Sept 26, 2023 12:22:47 GMT 1
By which AH means 'After Hoyle', or in my mind, the modern era of football at Town... So, just using my log of stats (yes I have one and, yes, it might not be 100% accurate so please update if needed....) I thought it would be interesting to rank how new managers have done in terms of points haul / won / lost / draws etc By 'starting' I would usually say over 10 games, simply because I always use a 10 game barometer as the 'start' of a season, however, as Scoffa only got to 8 I will use the first 8 games as the start...........will see where Big Daz ends up on this list as he progresses............. In Descending order from best to worst ........... Simon Grayson - W 4 D 4 L 0 = 16 Points Chris Powell - W 3 D 3 L 2 = 12 Points Danny Cowley - W 3 D 3 L 2 = 12 Points Lee Clark - W 3 D 2 L 3 = 11 Points Neil Warnock - W 3 D 2 L 3 = 11 Points David Wagner - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Mark Robbins - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Carlos Corberan - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Mark Fotheringham - W 2 D 2 L 4 = 8 Points Darren Moore - W 1 D 4 L 3 = 7 Points Danny Schofield - W 1 D 1 L 6 = 4 Points Jan Siewert - W 1 D 0 L 7 = 3 Points
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Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Sept 26, 2023 12:26:05 GMT 1
I see Buzz has deservedly been forgotten
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Post by runner76 on Sept 26, 2023 12:31:08 GMT 1
I see Buzz has deservedly been forgotten HAHAHA!! Brilliant and I DID really genuinely forget him.....!!: Now added....
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Post by paulmat on Sept 26, 2023 13:22:26 GMT 1
I think Lee Clark should be 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats. You're possibly including Southend away which was after his appointment but Graham Mitchell was still in charge for.
Not sure Powell is right either, pretty sure we got 1 point from his first 3.
Fotheringham only got 2 wins in his first 8 as well (maybe including Cardiff?)
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Post by runner76 on Sept 26, 2023 13:39:50 GMT 1
I think Lee Clark should be 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats. You're possibly including Southend away which was after his appointment but Graham Mitchell was still in charge for. Not sure Powell is right either, pretty sure we got 1 point from his first 3. Fotheringham only got 2 wins in his first 8 as well (maybe including Cardiff?) Well spotted, I’d only had Clark starting then even if not managing the team….changed his points! Other two also you are correct and I’d accidentally looked at Pelach last game and just not added up Powell correctly… Amended. Order pretty much still the same!
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Sept 26, 2023 13:40:22 GMT 1
I think Lee Clark should be 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats. You're possibly including Southend away which was after his appointment but Graham Mitchell was still in charge for. Not sure Powell is right either, pretty sure we got 1 point from his first 3. Fotheringham only got 2 wins in his first 8 as well (maybe including Cardiff?)Definitely not Cardiff. Narcis was in caretaker-charge for that one.
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Post by htafcokay on Sept 26, 2023 13:44:49 GMT 1
I think Lee Clark should be 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats. You're possibly including Southend away which was after his appointment but Graham Mitchell was still in charge for. Not sure Powell is right either, pretty sure we got 1 point from his first 3. Fotheringham only got 2 wins in his first 8 as well (maybe including Cardiff?)Definitely not Cardiff. Narcis was in caretaker-charge for that one. Co-caretaker charge with Paul Harsley.
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Post by paulmat on Sept 26, 2023 13:51:47 GMT 1
I think Lee Clark should be 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 defeats. You're possibly including Southend away which was after his appointment but Graham Mitchell was still in charge for. Not sure Powell is right either, pretty sure we got 1 point from his first 3. Fotheringham only got 2 wins in his first 8 as well (maybe including Cardiff?)Definitely not Cardiff. Narcis was in caretaker-charge for that one. Yeah, I know, was suggesting that might have been the reason for the error in number of wins
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
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Post by goodbet on Sept 26, 2023 14:54:07 GMT 1
David Wagner - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points
Mark Robbins - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points
Carlos Corberan - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points
Mark Fotheringham - W 2 D 2 L 4 = 8 Points
It just shows you what taking 10 games shows, 2 points difference between a complete waste and good managers.
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Post by sabailand on Sept 26, 2023 15:12:57 GMT 1
Simon Grayson top of the pile, theres always been a certain amount of ambivalence towards Grayson on here for some reason, took us up albeit by the skin of our teeth after two near misses the previous two seasons, got sacked after a bad run in his second season but rather harshly imo, hes the manager who actually managed to get us promoted from the lower leagues and who we have a lot to be grateful for.
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Post by townarentbest on Sept 26, 2023 16:39:13 GMT 1
Simon Grayson top of the pile, theres always been a certain amount of ambivalence towards Grayson on here for some reason, took us up albeit by the skin of our teeth after two near missed the previous two seasons, got sacked after a bad run in his second season but rather harshley imo, hes the manager who actually managed to get us promoted from the lower leagues and who we have a lot to be grateful for. All about the context - his opening games are in charge of a League 1 team that was in the top 6 of a table already...not exactly a massive surprise they did well, even if we'd had no manager. USUALLY (but not with Moore obviously), managers take over a team that is in the bottom third struggling to pick up points.
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araucaria
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by araucaria on Sept 26, 2023 18:39:57 GMT 1
Simon Grayson top of the pile, theres always been a certain amount of ambivalence towards Grayson on here for some reason, took us up albeit by the skin of our teeth after two near missed the previous two seasons, got sacked after a bad run in his second season but rather harshley imo, hes the manager who actually managed to get us promoted from the lower leagues and who we have a lot to be grateful for. All about the context - his opening games are in charge of a League 1 team that was in the top 6 of a table already...not exactly a massive surprise they did well, even if we'd had no manager. USUALLY (but not with Moore obviously), managers take over a team that is in the bottom third struggling to pick up points. That's probably why only Grayson and Moore, alone out of the 12, didn't lose their first away game. We threw away a 2-goal lead at Stevenage in SG's first away game and then a 3-goal lead at Bury, so he should have had 20 points really. I remember being 2-0 up at Chesterfield and being nervous about us holding on to it.
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Post by sabailand on Sept 26, 2023 18:45:11 GMT 1
Simon Grayson top of the pile, theres always been a certain amount of ambivalence towards Grayson on here for some reason, took us up albeit by the skin of our teeth after two near missed the previous two seasons, got sacked after a bad run in his second season but rather harshley imo, hes the manager who actually managed to get us promoted from the lower leagues and who we have a lot to be grateful for. All about the context - his opening games are in charge of a League 1 team that was in the top 6 of a table already...not exactly a massive surprise they did well, even if we'd had no manager. USUALLY (but not with Moore obviously), managers take over a team that is in the bottom third struggling to pick up points. Yes you have a point tbh, its just that after two successive fails under Lee Clarke with a possible third in the pipeline he got us over the line...just, i just think hes often underappreciated.
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Post by htafcokay on Sept 26, 2023 21:10:42 GMT 1
Simon Grayson top of the pile, theres always been a certain amount of ambivalence towards Grayson on here for some reason, took us up albeit by the skin of our teeth after two near missed the previous two seasons, got sacked after a bad run in his second season but rather harshly imo, hes the manager who actually managed to get us promoted from the lower leagues and who we have a lot to be grateful for. If he wasn't an ex Leeds manager, he'd get far more respect.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 21:54:01 GMT 1
I thought Grayson has a worse start than that, as he didn’t really improve our position in the league.
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Post by 28901 on Sept 26, 2023 22:10:51 GMT 1
Simon Grayson top of the pile, theres always been a certain amount of ambivalence towards Grayson on here for some reason, took us up albeit by the skin of our teeth after two near missed the previous two seasons, got sacked after a bad run in his second season but rather harshly imo, hes the manager who actually managed to get us promoted from the lower leagues and who we have a lot to be grateful for. I think I might know the reason....
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Post by 28901 on Sept 26, 2023 22:13:09 GMT 1
All about the context - his opening games are in charge of a League 1 team that was in the top 6 of a table already...not exactly a massive surprise they did well, even if we'd had no manager. USUALLY (but not with Moore obviously), managers take over a team that is in the bottom third struggling to pick up points. Yes you have a point tbh, its just that after two successive fails under Lee Clarke with a possible third in the pipeline he got us over the line...just, i just think hes often underappreciated. No doubt the bonkers Geordie would have failed again.
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Post by townarentbest on Sept 27, 2023 0:50:19 GMT 1
I thought Grayson has a worse start than that, as he didn’t really improve our position in the league. …cos we were already decent and likely heading for promotion anyway (although as is his right the man at the top decided a change was required to make that more likely*)…tricky to demonstrate improvement when you’re doing really well to start before you arrived.. *bizarre really given his later lack of action with managers who were delivering garbage…but difficult to argue given we got promoted!
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Post by htafcokay on Sept 27, 2023 9:23:43 GMT 1
Yes you have a point tbh, its just that after two successive fails under Lee Clarke with a possible third in the pipeline he got us over the line...just, i just think hes often underappreciated. No doubt the bonkers Geordie would have failed again. Look at his career after us. Failure after failure.
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Post by runner76 on Sept 27, 2023 11:20:57 GMT 1
No doubt the bonkers Geordie would have failed again. Look at his career after us. Failure after failure. Not sure many / any have achieved more since being at Town? Some have gone to 'bigger' clubs but not sure they have actually won anything, though likely that may be proven wrong!
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Post by htafcokay on Sept 27, 2023 11:24:43 GMT 1
Look at his career after us. Failure after failure. Not sure many / any have achieved more since being at Town? Some have gone to 'bigger' clubs but not sure they have actually won anything, though likely that may be proven wrong! Simon Grayson and Mark Robins have both achieved promotions since leaving Town. I don't think many of our recent managers have had such a fall from grace as Lee Clark has.
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Post by runner76 on Sept 27, 2023 11:40:17 GMT 1
Not sure many / any have achieved more since being at Town? Some have gone to 'bigger' clubs but not sure they have actually won anything, though likely that may be proven wrong! Simon Grayson and Mark Robins have both achieved promotions since leaving Town. I don't think many of our recent managers have had such a fall from grace as Lee Clark has. But not at a higher level, or have they?
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johnny_b
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,522
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Post by johnny_b on Sept 27, 2023 11:59:57 GMT 1
One of them is even in the England set up. I think Wagner has probably been the biggest under achiever since his time here, but that is obviously measured on his success here. He has had a few jobs since leaving us but I don't think any of the clubs have progressed under his management.
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Post by htafcokay on Sept 27, 2023 12:15:46 GMT 1
Simon Grayson and Mark Robins have both achieved promotions since leaving Town. I don't think many of our recent managers have had such a fall from grace as Lee Clark has. But not at a higher level, or have they? They achieved promotion at the same level that Lee Clark didn't achieve promotion.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 27, 2023 16:17:20 GMT 1
David Wagner - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Mark Robbins - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Carlos Corberan - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Mark Fotheringham - W 2 D 2 L 4 = 8 Points It just shows you what taking 10 games shows, 2 points difference between a complete waste and good managers. The same as what taking 20 games shows...that the points Fotheringham got is irrelevant when pushing the narrative he was the worst manager ever!
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Post by rockwall on Sept 27, 2023 16:51:16 GMT 1
Simon Grayson and Mark Robins have both achieved promotions since leaving Town. I don't think many of our recent managers have had such a fall from grace as Lee Clark has. But not at a higher level, or have they? Only a penalty shootout stopped Robins.
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Post by tepidterrier on Sept 27, 2023 17:25:05 GMT 1
Most impressive impact there goes to Cowley. Prior to that it must've been 3 wins in 40+ games. Shame he didn't build on it, despite investment in January and a strong squad.
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Post by tepidterrier on Sept 27, 2023 17:31:48 GMT 1
David Wagner - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Mark Robbins - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Carlos Corberan - W 3 D 1 L 4 = 10 Points Mark Fotheringham - W 2 D 2 L 4 = 8 Points It just shows you what taking 10 games shows, 2 points difference between a complete waste and good managers. The same as what taking 20 games shows...that the points Fotheringham got is irrelevant when pushing the narrative he was the worst manager ever! He came across as such a pillock that it's an easy one to say without getting much pushback. Funny thing to say after what actually happened last season, but I think he could've kept us up if the Blackpool game hadn't been postponed. We were doing just about well enough up til new year, had a bad run with Blackpool (in awful form and just having sacked the manager) scheduled to be somewhere in the middle, and all of a sudden it became a must win game which we messed up. Schofield, although seemingly a nice bloke and a fan favourite as a player, was a worse manager than Buzz. If I had to take one of them back as manager at gunpoint it'd still be him though!
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Post by alexdire on Sept 27, 2023 18:07:14 GMT 1
Powell only won 12 more games in the next 49.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 27, 2023 18:15:54 GMT 1
The same as what taking 20 games shows...that the points Fotheringham got is irrelevant when pushing the narrative he was the worst manager ever! He came across as such a pillock that it's an easy one to say without getting much pushback. Funny thing to say after what actually happened last season, but I think he could've kept us up if the Blackpool game hadn't been postponed. We were doing just about well enough up til new year, had a bad run with Blackpool (in awful form and just having sacked the manager) scheduled to be somewhere in the middle, and all of a sudden it became a must win game which we messed up. Schofield, although seemingly a nice bloke and a fan favourite as a player, was a worse manager than Buzz. If I had to take one of them back as manager at gunpoint it'd still be him though! He wasnt a good manager and came across terribly in interviews,,but 21 points from 20 games, mostly gained despite a horrendous injury crisis, doesnt make him the joke manager many like to make out. Danny Cowley's points per game was only marginally better and Carlos Corborans was practically the same for his first season as our manager.
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