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Post by townarentbest on Oct 23, 2023 9:35:54 GMT 1
1. He's bought the club, preventing it from falling into administration. 2. Yes, and ? 1. Not that old chestnut. 2. When a manager fails to win any of his first four games, the mood is hardly going to be positive, is it? I agree. But results are not the main stick beating Nagle at the moment. Its "you're not called Dean / I don't like americans taking over...why did you get rid of Warnock who has repeatedly said he likes to come in and do a few months here and there, and replace him with a manager who can actually work for a full season and will support enabling the club to move forward professionally rather than being some kind of tedious comedy gig".
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 23, 2023 9:48:31 GMT 1
They can have naked Scottsmen playing a banjo and bagpipe medley, with a mouth organ and whistling accompaniment, after every Town goal, as long it's at an average of three times a game. (But no Genesis)Would that cause an Exodus?
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 10:04:48 GMT 1
1. Not that old chestnut. 2. When a manager fails to win any of his first four games, the mood is hardly going to be positive, is it? I agree. But results are not the main stick beating Nagle at the moment. Its "you're not called Dean / I don't like americans taking over...why did you get rid of Warnock who has repeatedly said he likes to come in and do a few months here and there, and replace him with a manager who can actually work for a full season and will support enabling the club to move forward professionally rather than being some kind of tedious comedy gig".The same Americans that said they were employing Warnock for one more year because they'd listened to what the fans wanted. And give me the club being treated as "some kind of tedious comedy gig" over what we had under the likes of Corberan, or on the other hand Schofield and Fotheringham because at least it put smiles on faces and made things enjoyable. Things are always more enjoyable when you have charismatic managers (Jackson, Wagner, Warnock) than managers who have the personality of a damp rag (Corberan, Fotheringham, Powell and so on). And beyond all that, Warnock was the best man for the job in keeping teams' heads above water and getting them playing beyond their capabilities. I think people like you are seriously underestimating how much of a good job he did last season as well as getting a tune out of this squad this season.
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Oct 23, 2023 10:14:25 GMT 1
They can have naked Scottsmen playing a banjo and bagpipe medley, with a mouth organ and whistling accompaniment, after every Town goal, as long it's at an average of three times a game. (But no Genesis)Would that cause an Exodus? You've got his Number(s)
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irverino
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Post by irverino on Oct 23, 2023 10:19:36 GMT 1
I agree. But results are not the main stick beating Nagle at the moment. Its "you're not called Dean / I don't like americans taking over...why did you get rid of Warnock who has repeatedly said he likes to come in and do a few months here and there, and replace him with a manager who can actually work for a full season and will support enabling the club to move forward professionally rather than being some kind of tedious comedy gig". The same Americans that said they were employing Warnock for one more year because they'd listened to what the fans wanted.
And give me the club being treated as "some kind of tedious comedy gig" over what we had under the likes of Corberan, or on the other hand Schofield and Fotheringham because at least it put smiles on faces and made things enjoyable. Things are always more enjoyable when you have charismatic managers (Jackson, Wagner, Warnock) than managers who have the personality of a damp rag (Corberan, Fotheringham, Powell and so on). And beyond all that, Warnock was the best man for the job in keeping teams' heads above water and getting them playing beyond their capabilities. I think people like you are seriously underestimating how much of a good job he did last season as well as getting a tune out of this squad this season. Sold season tickets, bringing DM in July could have been a disaster for sales......Even sold out the Town hall.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 23, 2023 10:32:10 GMT 1
They can have naked Scottsmen playing a banjo and bagpipe medley, with a mouth organ and whistling accompaniment, after every Town goal, as long it's at an average of three times a game. (But no Genesis)Would that cause an Exodus? Wouldn't that be Bob Marley ?
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 10:37:07 GMT 1
The same Americans that said they were employing Warnock for one more year because they'd listened to what the fans wanted.
And give me the club being treated as "some kind of tedious comedy gig" over what we had under the likes of Corberan, or on the other hand Schofield and Fotheringham because at least it put smiles on faces and made things enjoyable. Things are always more enjoyable when you have charismatic managers (Jackson, Wagner, Warnock) than managers who have the personality of a damp rag (Corberan, Fotheringham, Powell and so on). And beyond all that, Warnock was the best man for the job in keeping teams' heads above water and getting them playing beyond their capabilities. I think people like you are seriously underestimating how much of a good job he did last season as well as getting a tune out of this squad this season. Sold season tickets, bringing DM in July could have been a disaster for sales......Even sold out the Town hall. Yeah, and of course giving Warnock a full pre-season, letting him get rid of long-standing and immensely popular staff to bring in his own staff, and bringing in his own players only to let him go after seven games was all part of the plan...
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 10:37:37 GMT 1
Would that cause an Exodus? Wouldn't that be Bob Marley ?
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 23, 2023 11:02:28 GMT 1
Would that cause an Exodus? You've got his Number(s) Have we had enough Bible puns or do we want psalm more?
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 23, 2023 11:50:05 GMT 1
I don’t think we’re any worse or any better than under Warnock: we had a few decent performances under NW, but we also played some absolute shite. I thought we were OK the first 45, we got sloppy and complacent at times however and that paved the way for the second half. I thought we were shite second half and I really struggled to identify what we were trying to to do. Some of the subs were also quite debatable. But, having said that, I didn’t feel like we’d lose. I think we need to remember we’re a side not really not experienced in taking the lead and having to manage large parts of the game - we showed a lot of naivety. Hopefully that changes over time. DM will do OK for us, no more, no less. In five - ten years time I think he’ll fit into the same bracket as Robins and Powell; unmemorable. I’ve seen some criticism of Burgzorg about his theatrics: I don’t mind it and it’s about time we had a player willing to to get in those positions and ask the question. We’re too soft at times and then too quick to feel aggrieved when the oppo does it to us. I think you’re spot on with regards DM. He wont be a fotheringham but also wont do a Wagner and I don’t really expect him to be here any great length of time as was the case with Robins/Powell etc.It is a shame that NW couldn’t have had the season as he was just starting to get a tune out of us but it is what it is. Im yet to be convinced regards DM, I am not sure he has the ability to manage a game out comfortably when ahead/on top as per Saturday. I may be wrong and hopefully I am but his appointment and performance since has given me nothing excitement wise but also nothing too much worry wise. I think unmemorable will be the perfect word to sum up his time here. Regards Burgzorg also entirely agree and he is better than anything else we have!
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Post by htfcfcfc on Oct 23, 2023 12:02:13 GMT 1
Sold season tickets, bringing DM in July could have been a disaster for sales......Even sold out the Town hall. Yeah, and of course giving Warnock a full pre-season, letting him get rid of long-standing and immensely popular staff to bring in his own staff, and bringing in his own players only to let him go after seven games was all part of the plan... Until we know the real reason Warnock left I don’t think it’s possible to understand the decision being so early. A few respected posters on here suggesting there was far more to it. I agree it was likely not part of the plan but just like any employee, no one is bigger than the club/employer
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Oct 23, 2023 12:03:38 GMT 1
You've got his Number(s) Have we had enough Bible puns or do we want psalm more? Mark my works there will be posters who will Luke into it. Not bad for an atheist
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 23, 2023 12:06:47 GMT 1
Have we had enough Bible puns or do we want psalm more? Mark my works there will be posters who will Luke into it. Not bad for an atheist Not bad? Mate, you've been a Revelation(s)!
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midge
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Post by midge on Oct 23, 2023 12:08:18 GMT 1
I don’t think we’re any worse or any better than under Warnock: we had a few decent performances under NW, but we also played some absolute shite. I thought we were OK the first 45, we got sloppy and complacent at times however and that paved the way for the second half. I thought we were shite second half and I really struggled to identify what we were trying to to do. Some of the subs were also quite debatable. But, having said that, I didn’t feel like we’d lose. I think we need to remember we’re a side not really not experienced in taking the lead and having to manage large parts of the game - we showed a lot of naivety. Hopefully that changes over time. DM will do OK for us, no more, no less. In five - ten years time I think he’ll fit into the same bracket as Robins and Powell; unmemorable. I’ve seen some criticism of Burgzorg about his theatrics: I don’t mind it and it’s about time we had a player willing to to get in those positions and ask the question. We’re too soft at times and then too quick to feel aggrieved when the oppo does it to us. I think you’re spot on with regards DM. He wont be a fotheringham but also wont do a Wagner and I don’t really expect him to be here any great length of time as was the case with Robins/Powell etc.It is a shame that NW couldn’t have had the season as he was just starting to get a tune out of us but it is what it is. Im yet to be convinced regards DM, I am not sure he has the ability to manage a game out comfortably when ahead/on top as per Saturday. I may be wrong and hopefully I am but his appointment and performance since has given me nothing excitement wise but also nothing too much worry wise. I think unmemorable will be the perfect word to sum up his time here. Regards Burgzorg also entirely agree and he is better than anything else we have! Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves? This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure?
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 12:16:34 GMT 1
I think you’re spot on with regards DM. He wont be a fotheringham but also wont do a Wagner and I don’t really expect him to be here any great length of time as was the case with Robins/Powell etc.It is a shame that NW couldn’t have had the season as he was just starting to get a tune out of us but it is what it is. Im yet to be convinced regards DM, I am not sure he has the ability to manage a game out comfortably when ahead/on top as per Saturday. I may be wrong and hopefully I am but his appointment and performance since has given me nothing excitement wise but also nothing too much worry wise. I think unmemorable will be the perfect word to sum up his time here. Regards Burgzorg also entirely agree and he is better than anything else we have! Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves? This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? He leaves the club in a stable position, with a new manager getting a full pre-season to get his ideas across.
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 23, 2023 12:16:44 GMT 1
I think you’re spot on with regards DM. He wont be a fotheringham but also wont do a Wagner and I don’t really expect him to be here any great length of time as was the case with Robins/Powell etc.It is a shame that NW couldn’t have had the season as he was just starting to get a tune out of us but it is what it is. Im yet to be convinced regards DM, I am not sure he has the ability to manage a game out comfortably when ahead/on top as per Saturday. I may be wrong and hopefully I am but his appointment and performance since has given me nothing excitement wise but also nothing too much worry wise. I think unmemorable will be the perfect word to sum up his time here. Regards Burgzorg also entirely agree and he is better than anything else we have! Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves? This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? I’m not quite sure where I have implied I haven’t accepted it, to the contrary “it is what it is” is a statement of acceptance. Do I think it was a good call or part of a plan… not a chance, but I have accepted its DM in the dugout and not a mirage. You make a good point regards what happens at the end of season however a comfortable mid table finish is something that looks quite appealing at the moment.
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Ross83
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Post by Ross83 on Oct 23, 2023 12:18:40 GMT 1
75mins of absolute shit tbh. I fear next Saturday is gonna be a bitter pill to swallow. Only time we've looked half decent since NW left was Ipswich and we threw that away.
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Post by Sio on Oct 23, 2023 12:21:08 GMT 1
I think you’re spot on with regards DM. He wont be a fotheringham but also wont do a Wagner and I don’t really expect him to be here any great length of time as was the case with Robins/Powell etc.It is a shame that NW couldn’t have had the season as he was just starting to get a tune out of us but it is what it is. Im yet to be convinced regards DM, I am not sure he has the ability to manage a game out comfortably when ahead/on top as per Saturday. I may be wrong and hopefully I am but his appointment and performance since has given me nothing excitement wise but also nothing too much worry wise. I think unmemorable will be the perfect word to sum up his time here. Regards Burgzorg also entirely agree and he is better than anything else we have! Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves?
This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? Exactly the same as has happened with DM but not a few games into a season right after a transfer window. The timing of DM coming in is bizarre and I will never be convinced that it was part of any plan. Had we brought in a Carlos or Wagner, it would've made sense for NW to have made way, but we haven't.
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rab030
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Post by rab030 on Oct 23, 2023 13:26:21 GMT 1
75mins of absolute shit tbh. I fear next Saturday is gonna be a bitter pill to swallow. Only time we've looked half decent since NW left was Ipswich and we threw that away. I didn't miss many games home or away when Warnock was in charge....can you please just remind me in which game we played really good football ? He got some amazing results (and quite a few shockers) but in the main we played pretty poor football and relied on trying to 'nick it' in the last 10 mins. I personally think most town fans were just so pleased that he somehow managed to keep us up, they only see through rose tinted glasses. DM might not be the ultimate answer but lets give the guy a chance. One defeat in 5 games is not a bad start and hopefully his first win will enable him to 'kick on'. UTT
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Post by townarentbest on Oct 23, 2023 13:45:08 GMT 1
Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves?
This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? Exactly the same as has happened with DM but not a few games into a season right after a transfer window. The timing of DM coming in is bizarre and I will never be convinced that it was part of any plan. Had we brought in a Carlos or Wagner, it would've made sense for NW to have made way, but we haven't. But DM is far more experienced in competitive football management and has far more knowledge of the Championship than either Carlos or Wagner did when they arrived with us...so I don't understand why it would have made sense to bring in someone like either of them to replace NW, whilst on the other hand saying giving the job to someone with experience of managing 250+ games in the top 3 divisions of English football doesn't make sense ?!
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Post by Sio on Oct 23, 2023 14:24:51 GMT 1
Exactly the same as has happened with DM but not a few games into a season right after a transfer window. The timing of DM coming in is bizarre and I will never be convinced that it was part of any plan. Had we brought in a Carlos or Wagner, it would've made sense for NW to have made way, but we haven't. But DM is far more experienced in competitive football management and has far more knowledge of the Championship than either Carlos or Wagner did when they arrived with us...so I don't understand why it would have made sense to bring in someone like either of them to replace NW, whilst on the other hand saying giving the job to someone with experience of managing 250+ games in the top 3 divisions of English football doesn't make sense ?! Because Wagner and Carlos were a gear change - projects with the intention of transforming the previous setup. I hope to be proved wrong on DM, but he seems very much like-for-like, but a lesser model, of our former manager.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 23, 2023 14:28:39 GMT 1
Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves?
This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? Exactly the same as has happened with DM but not a few games into a season right after a transfer window. The timing of DM coming in is bizarre and I will never be convinced that it was part of any plan. Had we brought in a Carlos or Wagner, it would've made sense for NW to have made way, but we haven't. I think this is the point a lot of people were making. If NW had said he wasn't coming back then fair enough - I think a lot of people would have been quite happy with Darren Moore appointed in the summer and would be willing to give him time to get his ideas across. If NW was doing a shit job this season and we were rooted to the bottom of the table, I think people would have accepted him going when he did. But neither was the case. So I doubt I was alone in thinking we had a manager or head coach lined up that would make people sit up and take notice. Darren Moore may have lots of fine qualities but he's no Michael Carrick, Kieran McKenna, David Wagner... etc. He is - as you say - another Chris Powell type of appointment. Or a Mark Robins. Not dreadful by any means, but more of a "ticking over" appointment than an ambitious one. The bit I'm clinging on to is the "Mark Robins" part of that. The job he's done (is doing!) at Coventry is outstanding. My hope is that Darren Moore will find that all the pieces eventually align for him here as they have for Mark Robins in the West Midlands. Initial impression is far from exciting. But we're a way off from being at a stage where I'm writing him off just yet.
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 14:38:43 GMT 1
75mins of absolute shit tbh. I fear next Saturday is gonna be a bitter pill to swallow. Only time we've looked half decent since NW left was Ipswich and we threw that away. I didn't miss many games home or away when Warnock was in charge.... can you please just remind me in which game we played really good football ?He got some amazing results (and quite a few shockers) but in the main we played pretty poor football and relied on trying to 'nick it' in the last 10 mins. I personally think most town fans were just so pleased that he somehow managed to keep us up, they only see through rose tinted glasses. DM might not be the ultimate answer but lets give the guy a chance. One defeat in 5 games is not a bad start and hopefully his first win will enable him to 'kick on'. UTT Middlesbrough, Watford, Reading, Rotherham are four examples off the top of my head.
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midge
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Post by midge on Oct 23, 2023 14:48:24 GMT 1
Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves? This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? He leaves the club in a stable position, with a new manager getting a full pre-season to get his ideas across. You could say that or you could say that we waste 7 months with a manager who is not the longer term solution. Working with players in away that his successor does not want to work! Buying players in the January that the new man doesn't want!? And that's in no way a criticism of NW by the way! It is pretty much acknowledged that he has a unique way of managing which would be very difficult/ near impossible to replicate!
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Post by royrace on Oct 23, 2023 14:52:19 GMT 1
Exactly the same as has happened with DM but not a few games into a season right after a transfer window. The timing of DM coming in is bizarre and I will never be convinced that it was part of any plan. Had we brought in a Carlos or Wagner, it would've made sense for NW to have made way, but we haven't. I think this is the point a lot of people were making. If NW had said he wasn't coming back then fair enough - I think a lot of people would have been quite happy with Darren Moore appointed in the summer and would be willing to give him time to get his ideas across. If NW was doing a shit job this season and we were rooted to the bottom of the table, I think people would have accepted him going when he did. But neither was the case. So I doubt I was alone in thinking we had a manager or head coach lined up that would make people sit up and take notice. Darren Moore may have lots of fine qualities but he's no Michael Carrick, Kieran McKenna, David Wagner... etc. He is - as you say - another Chris Powell type of appointment. Or a Mark Robins. Not dreadful by any means, but more of a "ticking over" appointment than an ambitious one. The bit I'm clinging on to is the "Mark Robins" part of that. The job he's done (is doing!) at Coventry is outstanding. My hope is that Darren Moore will find that all the pieces eventually align for him here as they have for Mark Robins in the West Midlands. Initial impression is far from exciting. But we're a way off from being at a stage where I'm writing him off just yet. I and many other wouldn't have been happy with him, never rated him and remember thinking he'd struggle to get a champ job when he left Wednesday. Poor appointment imo to go with the poor recruitment, I'd give Cartwright 4/10 so far for his footballing decisions and that's not taking into account whatever it was that happened with Warnock, his coaching staff and the ones we got rid of.
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Post by htfcfcfc on Oct 23, 2023 14:53:45 GMT 1
From memory we had 20-30% possession in both Watford and Middlesboro games. As enjoyable as the results were, if we played those games 100 times we’d not have won many. I’d have also backed a Fotheringham team to beat Reading in a no pressure end of season game.
Bet we had as many shots on target versus QPR the other day as we had in most of these games, maybe Reading aside.
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Post by griffa on Oct 23, 2023 14:56:34 GMT 1
75mins of absolute shit tbh. I fear next Saturday is gonna be a bitter pill to swallow. Only time we've looked half decent since NW left was Ipswich and we threw that away. I didn't miss many games home or away when Warnock was in charge....can you please just remind me in which game we played really good football ? He got some amazing results (and quite a few shockers) but in the main we played pretty poor football and relied on trying to 'nick it' in the last 10 mins. I personally think most town fans were just so pleased that he somehow managed to keep us up, they only see through rose tinted glasses. DM might not be the ultimate answer but lets give the guy a chance. One defeat in 5 games is not a bad start and hopefully his first win will enable him to 'kick on'. UTT Early days for Darren Moore, but I recall several good performances under Neil & Ronnie, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Watford & Cardiff - UTT.
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Post by shawsie on Oct 23, 2023 14:57:02 GMT 1
Let's say that Warnock was starting to get a tune out of the team- I personally think after a bad start he would have seen us to comfortable mid table. What happens at the end of the season when he leaves? This is the bit I don't quite get about those who are not accepting NW's departure? He leaves the club in a stable position, with a new manager getting a full pre-season to get his ideas across. It doesn't work like that any longer though - we will be having discussions re potential summer acquisitions and departures now probably and DM will want a few months to shape what he has / let some go himself. I might have left it another couple of months myself before making the expected change ............ but if you've identified your man crack on - the only caveat is you have to back him in Jan and again in the summer and only time will tell on that. DM has some work to do to get fans onside - Ipswich apart its been a bit flat to say the least. That said, he isn't working with a squad packed full of talent at this level so its a fine balancing act.
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 15:01:51 GMT 1
He leaves the club in a stable position, with a new manager getting a full pre-season to get his ideas across. You could say that or you could say that we waste 7 months with a manager who is not the longer term solution. Working with players in away that his successor does not want to work! Buying players in the January that the new man doesn't want!? And that's in no way a criticism of NW by the way! It is pretty much acknowledged that he has a unique way of managing which would be very difficult/ near impossible to replicate! In that case, don't ask him to stay.
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 23, 2023 15:03:35 GMT 1
He leaves the club in a stable position, with a new manager getting a full pre-season to get his ideas across. It doesn't work like that any longer though - we will be having discussions re potential summer acquisitions and departures now probably and DM will want a few months to shape what he has / let some go himself. I might have left it another couple of months myself before making the expected change ............ but if you've identified your man crack on - the only caveat is you have to back him in Jan and again in the summer and only time will tell on that. DM has some work to do to get fans onside - Ipswich apart its been a bit flat to say the least. That said, he isn't working with a squad packed full of talent at this level so its a fine balancing act. I'm sorry, but that is exactly how the club, Nagle and Edwards marketed it. “We’re so pleased Neil has agreed to stay on for another season. I know how determined he is to build on the job he’s done last season, and he offers us great experience and stability on the football side as we prepare for the prospective change of ownership.” They made out that Warnock would stabilise for a season while they sorted everything behind the scenes. However, that isn't what's happened, is it?
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