inapickle
Chris Hay Terrier
Well its all sorted with the new owner so hopefully we will be able to get some 'Soccer' played!!
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Post by inapickle on Oct 29, 2023 14:13:34 GMT 1
We are going to need some very good loans Or we trawl the free agents available NOW Helder Costa, Phil Jones, even Matty Longstaff are all without a club! Short term contracts to prove themselves then who knows! Jones is 31 and has 25+ England caps. Longstaff was a 5m valued player 2 years ago. Costa had a good reputation a couple of years ago too. Means to an end but .....got to do something or be cut adrift by Xmas!!! |
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Oct 29, 2023 14:17:13 GMT 1
Wednesday winning, not surprising went left field and got a highly rated German coach who was working with the national team recently. We got the manager most of their fans wanted sacked before the playoffs.
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Post by sabailand on Oct 29, 2023 14:41:52 GMT 1
Wednesday winning, not surprising went left field and got a highly rated German coach who was working with the national team recently. We got the manager most of their fans wanted sacked before the playoffs. Massive have lost their last two so not the best of starts, the new manager might make a diffrence but he might not as well, hopefully he turns out to be an abject failure, a win today though for them would keep Rotherham at arms length. |
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Post by dugnet on Oct 29, 2023 14:47:01 GMT 1
It's not inevitable, as I posted earlier, but this week has made it far more likely (unfortunately).
It will be inevitable if something doesn't change. Be that; DM gets a shape, coherent tactics, the players all playing to their best or we go in a different direction, but something has to change.... this is not a blip or a bit of bad form/luck, there are real issues that need attention.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Oct 29, 2023 14:47:48 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection.
The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Oct 29, 2023 14:59:55 GMT 1
We are going to need some very good loans Or we trawl the free agents available NOW Helder Costa, Phil Jones, even Matty Longstaff are all without a club! Short term contracts to prove themselves then who knows! Jones is 31 and has 25+ England caps. Longstaff was a 5m valued player 2 years ago. Costa had a good reputation a couple of years ago too. Means to an end but .....got to do something or be cut adrift by Xmas!!! Longstaff has had a serious knee injury to which Newcastle are still treating for him. Be a good digning once fit I guess. |
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Post by dugnet on Oct 29, 2023 15:00:13 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. That is all pertinent and makes sense but when do you realise that you may have made an almighty cock up? It is those people who are brave enough to admit their mistakes, and own them, that are, in my view, successful in life. We all make bad calls, with the best intentions, but a bad call is a bad call and being big enough to accept that is a real strength. Honesty is a attribute that deserves respect. If KN evaluates what is in front of him and says; "we've made a mistake, it's on me to change it", he would get immense credit from me. Ploughing on because you can't admit you are wrong is weak. Ploughing on and hoping for the best smacks of incompetence. Ego should have nothing to do with it, this is about making things work and right now they clearly aren't working. You then have to accept something isn't right and change it, and be respected for being brave enough to take action. |
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Post by Terriersmad on Oct 29, 2023 15:06:12 GMT 1
And we need the same now. What we also have to do is stop being cheap - that window we missed out on Adeboyajo, the lad who went to Luton, for £500,000. At more or less the same time Ben Whiteman - a player we should have been looking at to replace Hogg - went to Preston for £750,000. Neither were small fees, but both were very reasonable (considering the ridiculous fees elsewhere). We don't need to spend silly money, but we do need to be prepared to get the chequebook out for the players we enquire about. Stop balking at paying decent money for good players, and the same goes for paying wages for players on loan. We need players for the first-team, here and now. We have a core of potential, but shouldn't be relying on it to dig us out. At a minimum, we need a striker (I'd want Kieffer Moore), two central midfielders (at least one of whom is a proper Hogg-a-like), and a right-back. I'd also recall Jordan Rhodes. I know it's a different tune from the summer, when I thought we were a striker light, but this recent run, injuries, etc, plus the fact we no longer have Warnock, suggests (understatement...) we need much more. And we have to pay for what we want. The thing is everything about Nagles tenure so far suggests he isn't willing to invest in players at the required level. I don't think he will have any intention of spending in January and even if he did would you trust Cartwright to spend it after what we've seen so far? We've a DoF who's been working in the Mickey mouse league for a decade doing a job different job who thought appointing DM would be a coup and fed us some total BS about his attacking football. Also dropped in the old develops young players line and we know what that means. The only way out of this mess is to appoint a quality coach ASAP and spend a lot of money in January on the right players. I don't see any of those things happening. Valid points. The only counter I have to it (while being an eternal optimist...) is that we spent £1.2m on Ben Wiles. A player in a position we needed, and we went out and spent the money required to get target number 1. Although we've also (backing your point up) made a complete pig's ear of the search for a striker leaving us with a rookie and a winger up front. However, I'm a firm believer in giving people a chance. Cartwright, for the underwhelming signings so far, has been in the role less than 4 months; ditto Edwards. They arrived in the middle of a window, with presumably no plans until they saw budgets and without the benefit of having worked on deals for weeks and months in advance. As I understand it, much of the work towards a transfer window takes place not during the window, but significantly before it. Giving them the benefit of a significant doubt, they were playing catch-up from the moment they arrived. January, therefore, is more of an acid test than the summer. Also worth pointing out that the previous recruitment team were hardly world-beaters. The only occasions we've had decent summer windows in the past decade have been 2016, 2017, and 2021. Every other window has left us short (notably 2015, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, and now 2023). The thing is that Nagle will also be fully aware now of the job he has on. To save this season, he'll know he has to dip his hand in his pocket and spend money. As above, though: we can't afford to be cheap. If the asking price for a player is £1m, and we're panicking over the difference between our £8/900,000 offer, then we haven't learned. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
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Post by goodbet on Oct 29, 2023 15:52:01 GMT 1
The thing is everything about Nagles tenure so far suggests he isn't willing to invest in players at the required level. I don't think he will have any intention of spending in January and even if he did would you trust Cartwright to spend it after what we've seen so far? We've a DoF who's been working in the Mickey mouse league for a decade doing a job different job who thought appointing DM would be a coup and fed us some total BS about his attacking football. Also dropped in the old develops young players line and we know what that means. The only way out of this mess is to appoint a quality coach ASAP and spend a lot of money in January on the right players. I don't see any of those things happening. Valid points. The only counter I have to it (while being an eternal optimist...) is that we spent £1.2m on Ben Wiles. A player in a position we needed, and we went out and spent the money required to get target number 1. Although we've also (backing your point up) made a complete pig's ear of the search for a striker leaving us with a rookie and a winger up front. However, I'm a firm believer in giving people a chance. Cartwright, for the underwhelming signings so far, has been in the role less than 4 months; ditto Edwards. They arrived in the middle of a window, with presumably no plans until they saw budgets and without the benefit of having worked on deals for weeks and months in advance. As I understand it, much of the work towards a transfer window takes place not during the window, but significantly before it. Giving them the benefit of a significant doubt, they were playing catch-up from the moment they arrived. January, therefore, is more of an acid test than the summer. Also worth pointing out that the previous recruitment team were hardly world-beaters. The only occasions we've had decent summer windows in the past decade have been 2016, 2017, and 2021. Every other window has left us short (notably 2015, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, and now 2023). The thing is that Nagle will also be fully aware now of the job he has on. To save this season, he'll know he has to dip his hand in his pocket and spend money. As above, though: we can't afford to be cheap. If the asking price for a player is £1m, and we're panicking over the difference between our £8/900,000 offer, then we haven't learned. Once you realise that giving people who are failing more time you will do nothing but poorer results. When the people are the ones leading your effort the failing will just increase in pace. We saw what leaving Bromby in charge of transfer dealing brought us why give the current crop more time to do the same? |
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 29, 2023 16:39:44 GMT 1
The Yorkshire Evening Post has a headline "Ex-Leeds United manager ‘set to’ be appointed at Whites’ Championship rivals after latest sacking", along with a picture of Warnock, on the JSS pitch, in a Town tracksuit and with a Town player out of focus in the background. The sack of shit rag counts a team in the bottom 3 as a rial but can't bring itself to mention us 🤣
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Post by turbo2 on Oct 29, 2023 16:45:26 GMT 1
The Yorkshire Evening Post has a headline "Ex-Leeds United manager ‘set to’ be appointed at Whites’ Championship rivals after latest sacking", along with a picture of Warnock, on the JSS pitch, in a Town tracksuit and with a Town player out of focus in the background. The sack of shit rag counts a team in the bottom 3 as a rial but can't bring itself to mention us 🤣 I’ll question why you’re reading that poisonous rag of chestwanking shite. |
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Post by royrace on Oct 29, 2023 16:59:11 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. He desperately needs quality, honest football expertise, the one he's hired is sub standard. I'm not sure about Edwards either, always wary of slick operators because you often find it's all they're good at. The people who knew football and the league we're in were Warnock and Baldwin. He's now relying solely on Cartwright who has delivered Edwards, Burgzorg and a completely inappropriate manager. Someone on here said he'd be better just consulting the fan base on football decisions and it's difficult to argue with that. I still find it weird that Baldwin left, seen enough maybe or disagreed with the hair brained schemes the leadership were coming up with. |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Oct 29, 2023 17:04:05 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. He desperately needs quality, honest football expertise, the one he's hired is sub standard. I'm not sure about Edwards either, always wary of slick operators because you often find it's all they're good at. The people who knew football and the league we're in were Warnock and Baldwin. He's now relying solely on Cartwright who has delivered Edwards, Burgzorg and a completely inappropriate manager. Someone on here said he'd be better just consulting the fan base on football decisions and it's difficult to argue with that. I still find it weird that Baldwin left, seen enough maybe or disagreed with the hair brained schemes the leadership were coming up with. Didn’t Baldwin orchestrate our January window? If he did then it isn’t a glowing reference. |
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Post by royrace on Oct 29, 2023 17:16:57 GMT 1
He desperately needs quality, honest football expertise, the one he's hired is sub standard. I'm not sure about Edwards either, always wary of slick operators because you often find it's all they're good at. The people who knew football and the league we're in were Warnock and Baldwin. He's now relying solely on Cartwright who has delivered Edwards, Burgzorg and a completely inappropriate manager. Someone on here said he'd be better just consulting the fan base on football decisions and it's difficult to argue with that. I still find it weird that Baldwin left, seen enough maybe or disagreed with the hair brained schemes the leadership were coming up with. Didn’t Baldwin orchestrate our January window? If he did then it isn’t a glowing reference. I'd have thought he was more strategic than actually picking out players but I'm not sure. I would have expected him to highlight the risk of having a weak squad, the difficulty in the January market and the huge risk in getting rid of Warnock so early though although that perhaps wasn't his remit at the time. |
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Post by captainblack on Oct 29, 2023 17:22:21 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! |
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 29, 2023 17:25:47 GMT 1
The Yorkshire Evening Post has a headline "Ex-Leeds United manager ‘set to’ be appointed at Whites’ Championship rivals after latest sacking", along with a picture of Warnock, on the JSS pitch, in a Town tracksuit and with a Town player out of focus in the background. The sack of shit rag counts a team in the bottom 3 as a rial but can't bring itself to mention us 🤣 I’ll question why you’re reading that poisonous rag of chestwanking shite. I'm not, it came on the homepage on Google |
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Post by royrace on Oct 29, 2023 17:30:49 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! I think as a fan base we've had enough, we've seen Schofield, Fotheringham, Siewart before then, knew very early they weren't up to it. We've replaced Warnock with this one. All those factors add up to zero patience. I've seen enough and I'm not surprised by what I've seen at all based on what I knew of the squad and the relative qualities of DM and NW. He won't get a tune out of this squad so why wait. |
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Post by softboy on Oct 29, 2023 17:40:05 GMT 1
Relating back to the title of this thread. No it isn’t. There are lots of teams just above us that are also in danger of a relegation battle. Coventry for example they sold there best 2 players in the summer without any real replacements as we did the year before! And 9 days ago we were 3 points above bottom 3, even after 2 horrendous results we are now 5 points above bottom 3. Just saying!
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araucaria
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,801
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Post by araucaria on Oct 29, 2023 17:43:30 GMT 1
Skybet currently offering 7/2 on us to be relegated, (but they had us at 5/1 last Saturday when everyone else was offering 4/1). All the others are 2/1 and one is 7/4. You can sometimes beat the bookies if you know more about the subject than they do. No argument with the general consensus that we're a basket case that is in the deepest shit, but I'm clutching at the straw that these hard-headed fellows don't suffer from the same kind of hurt, fear and disappointment that we do and therefore see our future prospects more clearly. I only bet against us to try to jinx the outcome that I don't want to happen, but 7/2 looks like such good value, don't you think?
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,202
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Post by iangreaves on Oct 29, 2023 17:49:25 GMT 1
He desperately needs quality, honest football expertise, the one he's hired is sub standard. I'm not sure about Edwards either, always wary of slick operators because you often find it's all they're good at. The people who knew football and the league we're in were Warnock and Baldwin. He's now relying solely on Cartwright who has delivered Edwards, Burgzorg and a completely inappropriate manager. Someone on here said he'd be better just consulting the fan base on football decisions and it's difficult to argue with that. I still find it weird that Baldwin left, seen enough maybe or disagreed with the hair brained schemes the leadership were coming up with. Didn’t Baldwin orchestrate our January window? If he did then it isn’t a glowing reference. I would have thought the signing of our non-full back has Cartwright's fingerprints all over it, given their connection. |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,202
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Post by iangreaves on Oct 29, 2023 17:53:57 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! I watched the video of the training session with Moore on the microphone. I don't see how the players could take him seriously. He came across the same way as he does in press conferences. Having said that, I wouldn't have any confidence in Cartwright and Edwards picking his replacement. |
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Post by captainblack on Oct 29, 2023 19:52:56 GMT 1
I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! I think as a fan base we've had enough, we've seen Schofield, Fotheringham, Siewart before then, knew very early they weren't up to it. We've replaced Warnock with this one. All those factors add up to zero patience. I've seen enough and I'm not surprised by what I've seen at all based on what I knew of the squad and the relative qualities of DM and NW. He won't get a tune out of this squad so why wait. |
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Post by captainblack on Oct 29, 2023 20:08:05 GMT 1
I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! I think as a fan base we've had enough, we've seen Schofield, Fotheringham, Siewart before then, knew very early they weren't up to it. We've replaced Warnock with this one. All those factors add up to zero patience. I've seen enough and I'm not surprised by what I've seen at all based on what I knew of the squad and the relative qualities of DM and NW. He won't get a tune out of this squad so why wait. I know were you are coming from R.R. , but how many games has he been in charge , is it 7 ? I would like to give this guy more time, I have to admit the likely hood of DM of turning us around at the moment seems to be slim , but there is that chance ! |
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Post by space hardware on Oct 29, 2023 20:10:37 GMT 1
I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! I watched the video of the training session with Moore on the microphone. I don't see how the players could take him seriously. He came across the same way as he does in press conferences. Having said that, I wouldn't have any confidence in Cartwright and Edwards picking his replacement. He gave off serious Fotheringham vibes in that session, which was alarming. |
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 2,841
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Post by duncfost01 on Oct 29, 2023 21:57:20 GMT 1
Relegation is planned that’s what kev is telling us to be patient for; mathematically it will take a few games yet. Moore is trying to push it through by conceding 4 in most games.
Helik is in bother him scoring wasn’t part of the plan; Moore also for hooking Edwards and Diarra….
Rudoni and koroma were actually told we were playing Bristol away and to make their own way there. ….
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
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Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 0:17:59 GMT 1
It would be a huge call to get rid of Moore now, as it would be a kick in the teeth for Edwards & Cartwright & blow their 3 year plan rhetoric right out of the water after a couple of months. Even if they did get rid, we'd have the same people making the next selection. The only way I can see Kev saving face is to sack Moore AND Cartwright, admit he's made a huge mistake & try again. You have to assume KN was advised by Edwards to bring Cartwright in & that looks a shocking appointment so far. If Cartwright wasn't to blame for bringing the RB Edwards into the club, whoever was responsible for that also needs sacking, he is an awful footballer. I agree , getting rid of Moore at the moment seems highly unlikely, though I have to admit he's certainly not doing himself any favours. He can only last so long getting these type of results. We desperately need some REAL investment in the club during the January window , and we will know if KN has a real interest in the club if he delivers the goods . I must admit I cannot see DM being at the club come January, just my opinion! Relegation is not inevitable at this stage. But doing nothing by giving DM more games to ruin any confidence the players have left and leaving the same people in charge of the January window that made such a hash of the summer window appears to be the best chance of making relegation a possibility that I can think of. |
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Post by daltonterrier44 on Oct 30, 2023 7:51:31 GMT 1
The most flustering thing of sacking Moore (if we did) would be it would cost an absolute fortune and shows the money was always there and we wasn’t as close to FFP as we was told which would open up the question…why wasn’t it used on the squad? It’s this reason why I don’t think he’ll go, I mean no manager should be after 7 games into a 3 year deal if I’m honest…BUT needs to be showing signs the next few before the international break or I think I will be officially preparing to jump ship and onto the bandwagon 👀
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Post by richhtfc on Oct 30, 2023 8:36:58 GMT 1
Didn’t Baldwin orchestrate our January window? If he did then it isn’t a glowing reference. I would have thought the signing of our non-full back has Cartwright's fingerprints all over it, given their connection. He’s only a loan isn’t he? Can’t we send him back in January? |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,202
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Post by iangreaves on Oct 30, 2023 9:17:11 GMT 1
I would have thought the signing of our non-full back has Cartwright's fingerprints all over it, given their connection. He’s only a loan isn’t he? Can’t we send him back in January? Given our ineptitude, we’re probably committed to the full season with no get-out. |
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Post by durhamterrier on Oct 30, 2023 9:33:24 GMT 1
I would have thought the signing of our non-full back has Cartwright's fingerprints all over it, given their connection. He’s only a loan isn’t he? Can’t we send him back in January? I’d send him back now and pay his wages til Jan if we have to . He’s not good enough . We’d be better off recalling Brodie Spencer and giving him the experience or telling Jackson he’s getting a run there. What’s fucking me off the most with Moore is his constant tinkering of personnel and formations in key areas . Decide your strongest defence and let it gel . Play players in their best positions . Three fit left backs in the club and plays Koroma there . Thomas behind the strikers , Nakayama in defensive midfield . All baffling . |
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