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Post by Sio on Sept 25, 2024 9:03:41 GMT 1
Alarm bells really should've rung in that first documentary episode when he basically admitted to knowing nothing about us and essentially it was a shot in the dark.
We all got drawn in by the glamour and wealth surrounding it - but ultimately, as has been apparent for over 12 months now, Nagle hasn't got a clue about English football, and it's now becoming clearer that he has no ability to employ people who do. It all falls down on his appointments and will continue to do so until he acts.
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Sept 25, 2024 9:21:23 GMT 1
Alarm bells really should've rung in that first documentary episode when he basically admitted to knowing nothing about us and essentially it was a shot in the dark. We all got drawn in by the glamour and wealth surrounding it - but ultimately, as has been apparent for over 12 months now, Nagle hasn't got a clue about English football, and it's now becoming clearer that he has no ability to employ people who do. It all falls down on his appointments and will continue to do so until he acts. I can't see anything improving under this ownership, you look at how Brentford and Brighton got to where they are its chalk and cheese to how we are been run. Admittedly they were two special cases of fans who were huge on analytics and data taking control but having somebody who doesn't have a clue about the English game or how to appoint those who do and then sits on twitter all day undermining the team with tweets and angry responded to fans just looks bleak. No other chairman does it. Particularly not successful ones. |
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Post by townarentbest on Sept 25, 2024 9:30:33 GMT 1
Publicly slates the team with a load of kids making their debuts away in a pointless tournament yet stays silent after these last two disgraceful home performances? 🤔 Its all gone very quiet since the end of the transfer window from KN and I don't recall seeing his sidekick posting on here since then too. Maybe they've decided they've done / are doing their bit off the field, its down to the football to look after the football now. |
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Post by irverino on Sept 25, 2024 9:31:21 GMT 1
I don't know what people are expecting to be fair, as soon as KN said he had re-interviewed Cartwright for his job and decided he was the best candidate that should have sent out the biggest red flag going. There's an audiobook called 'how to win the premier league', its an excellent listen about how data and analytics led Liverpool to the Premier League and how Brighton and Brentford got to the top. Owners who totally understood data and how to beat the odds. Frankly for a club like us its the only chance of success again and with MC in charge of recruitment its hard to see that happening anytime soon. The challenge with Cartwright is: What was his remit What budget did he have to work with What is his review period As fans we can simply, and maybe justifiably say "this bloke is wholly in charge of making the football team better, he clearly hasn't" or to put more bluntly "we think he's shite" but Mr Nagle has to take ultimate responsibility for his appointment and his output. As this thread is titled the buck stops with Kev. At some point, and it won't be too far away if things don't significantly improve where Mr Nagle will have to address this. He also needs to carry some of the can himself. I'll worry if he doesn't do that if it is obvious that it is required. I don't think we are there yet but in this particular instance there can't be too much rope left.Here, here......Are we there now? |
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Post by irverino on Sept 25, 2024 9:40:32 GMT 1
Damning view of the club across the pond   This guy doesn't question the manager/players when quoting the 'style of football is dreadfully boring'........Does he mean the DoF at Sac? |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Sept 25, 2024 10:55:20 GMT 1
Alarm bells really should've rung in that first documentary episode when he basically admitted to knowing nothing about us and essentially it was a shot in the dark. We all got drawn in by the glamour and wealth surrounding it - but ultimately, as has been apparent for over 12 months now, Nagle hasn't got a clue about English football, and it's now becoming clearer that he has no ability to employ people who do. It all falls down on his appointments and will continue to do so until he acts. Have to agree - and I can count myself guilty of being drawn in by the glam and wealth. I've probably afforded Nagle more patience and understanding than his running of the club (so far) has deserved. He comes across as naive, but ultimately as a decent(-ish) human being. He's frequently saying things that we want to hear. Stadium issues are nearly solved, we're going to be aggressive in the market etc. There's also been a bit of money spent on the club off-the-pitch this summer, which is good. I'm pleased about that. Long overdue. These are simple things to put right. But it's just not even nearly enough, is it? I was trying so hard to be positive about our recruitment in the summer window, for example. We signed a few midfielders, it felt great. But in the end it was simply the fact that we had signed midfielders that pleased me, rather than the quality of the player. To be honest, I thought they would be a bit better than they have been. Duff has said a few times that his teams are only as good as his wingbacks. Sorensen has either been excellent or dreadful, Miller, fortunately, has been fine, and something just looks very off about Headley. If wingbacks are the most important position in the 3-5-2, it's pretty strange that we only have one player in the squad capable of playing as a wing back on the right. (For anyone who says that Spencer and Kasumu can play there - no they can't. They can provide cover, but that's a different thing.) In a roundabout way, we come to the forward line. Ladapo must be one of the strangest signings in recent times (and hey we've had plenty of those), Marshall is a talented young footballer but he's not a game changer, nor a starter. I'm pleased that we signed him, if I'm honest, but that's mainly because Radu, Ward, and Healey are so frequently unavailable/generally unreliable, that there's just a need for extra bodies. That Koroma is our best forward option at the moment is a sad indictment of our recruitment failures. Yes, he's scored a few goals, but it's just not that much of an achievement at this level. I want to address something that hasn't really been discussed all that much, unfortunately. Andre Breitenreiter said that we had a rotten squad with a bad attitude. Many fans had an issue with it, but Nagle, Edwards, and Cartwright, when pressed, admitted that though they hadn't heard about these problems, they vowed to put it right and take decisive action. Nagle indicated that this was going to be a summer of transition, of aggressive recruitment with many ins and plenty of outs. That was the last we heard of it. We sold Rudoni and loaned out Sorba. Fine. We moved some fringe players on. Good. But that was it. Now we've lost 5 in 6, we're constantly second to the ball, we're not fit enough, we can't pick a pass, there's little movement, we're defensively weak and disorganised. But of course, the spine of the team is exactly the same: Nicholls, Spencer, Lees, Helik, Pearson, Headley, Hogg, Wiles, Kasumu, Koroma, Healey, Ward, Radu. I know that some haven't played all that much, but they're around the squad day-to-day. I mean, it's not even a surprise that the same team that has struggled for the last few years is struggling again. We're lucky that there's plenty of rubbish teams in this league. It unfortunately masks a few things. So the aggressive recruitment/summer of transition that was promised was instead a matter of a few sensible signings... and then Ladapo. A few faces changed, but the culture remains. Are the players responsible for the failure to play Duff's system? Or is Duff's system responsible for the players' failings? The true answer is probably somewhere in between, but erring towards the players being incompetent. Why? Well, they have been for so long. I never want us to spend like Birmingham, or put the future of the club at risk for the sake of one promotion, but I admit texting my friend during the early days of the summer window saying "I hope we act like big boys in this little league... even if it's just acting. Fake it till you make it." When we all knew that big changes were needed, and the leaders at the club admitted as much, and then things went quiet. It's not even about missing out on May or Taylor. It's bigger than that. It's even bigger than Cartwright seemingly only having a shortlist of two or three. It's about ambition really. About whether or not our owner really, and I mean really, wants to change the football club. Or does he just say it because it sounds good? I thought I knew, but now I'm not sure. After around 75 minutes yesterday I tuned out of the game for a bit. Looked around. Lots of empty seats, people leaving early (but not because it's an evening KO early), no atmosphere, poor on-pitch product. Heads were in hands, or being shaken from side to side. Fans were texting friends, probably complaining, or checking other results. It felt like the first round of the Carabao cup, with a stadium only 35% full. I thought to myself in that moment, does Nagle know that it's not meant to be like this? Was this his intention when he took over? Probably not. Right? Surely? But I don't really care about intentions anymore. We need someone who is literate in modern football to make a few ruthless decisions. We seem to be very good at ripping it up, but not very good at starting again. |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Sept 25, 2024 10:56:22 GMT 1
Alarm bells really should've rung in that first documentary episode when he basically admitted to knowing nothing about us and essentially it was a shot in the dark. We all got drawn in by the glamour and wealth surrounding it - but ultimately, as has been apparent for over 12 months now, Nagle hasn't got a clue about English football, and it's now becoming clearer that he has no ability to employ people who do. It all falls down on his appointments and will continue to do so until he acts. While I'm not disputing that having a chairman who fully understands the English game would perhaps be of benefit, it also shouldn't be (and often isn't) a barrier to succes. The day to day running of the club falls to the CEO, and given Jake Edwards long and relatively recent playing career (albiet in the lower rungs) there should be no excuse of not 'understanding the English game'. With regards to his credentials as a CEO, well he has overseen a period of rapid growth and success in the USL (US Equivalent of the EFL) turning it into a bona-fide professional 3 tier system, much like our own. How any of that translates into running a mid-level English I honestly can't say, but I'm fairly sure there will be a number of transferable skills and experiences that (from Nagle's perspective) made him an ideal candidate to run the club. The point I'm trying make here is that much of criticism of KN doesn't really hold any water, when nearly all of it is being delivered with hindsight. Who at the time was looking at the appointment of Edwards and saying "Here's a man who knows nothing about English football"? hardly anyone I'd wager. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Sept 25, 2024 10:59:48 GMT 1
Regards Birmingham, I’m no expert but I am fairly sure they have people employed of more know how in how to get around things then anybody on here, whether that be their sponsorship deals or whatever.
They have spent to ensure they will return asap and not one single town fan (if we are being honest) would have complained had we done the same.
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Post by dugnet on Sept 25, 2024 11:26:53 GMT 1
Alarm bells really should've rung in that first documentary episode when he basically admitted to knowing nothing about us and essentially it was a shot in the dark. We all got drawn in by the glamour and wealth surrounding it - but ultimately, as has been apparent for over 12 months now, Nagle hasn't got a clue about English football, and it's now becoming clearer that he has no ability to employ people who do. It all falls down on his appointments and will continue to do so until he acts. While I'm not disputing that having a chairman who fully understands the English game would perhaps be of benefit, it also shouldn't (and often isn't) be a barrier to succes. The day to day running of the club falls to the CEO, and given Jake Edwards long and relatively recent playing career (albiet in the lower rungs) there should be no excuse of not 'understanding the English game'. With regards to his credentials as a CEO, well he has overseen a period of rapid growth and success in the USL (US Equivalent of the EFL) turning it into a bona-fide professional 3 tier system, much like our own. How any of that translates into running a mid-level English I honestly can't say, but I'm fairly sure there will be a number of transferable skills and experiences that (from Nagle's perspective) made him an ideal candidate to run the club. The point I'm trying make here is that much of criticism of KN doesn't really hold any water, when nearly all of it is being delivered with hindsight. Who at the time was looking at the appointment of Edwards and saying "Here's a man who knows nothing about English football"? hardly anyone I'd wager. You make a fair point in as much as I don't buy this, "he's American, he doesn't understand the English game". What I do think though is reasonable to challenge is what Mr Nagle is actually looking to achieve? There are nebulous ambitions that are understated/not entirely convincing. I can understand the under-promise/over-deliver mentality but the fact this debate is being had suggests less and less people are buying into the journey. That might be because no-one is, currently, sure of the destination. In the crowd yesterday a heard people say, "he's a bullshit merchant", "he's a snake oil salesman". Hearing that might hurt/rile him but that is the reality of how he, and his team, are being perceived. I do think there are good intentions but we are now into nearly 18 months and people don't things are really progressing. Moreover I couldn't strongly argue with anyone that the execution, to date, has been at best disappointing and at worse unstructured/clueless. I suppose what does worry me is that views like this may be dismissed as a fanbase expecting too much. I would counter with the challenge, "is it too much to expect to expect to take a game to the opposition at home in this league"? Overall things may improve this season but no one can tell me that this squad is anywhere near good enough to compete at Championship level (which was a stated aim). Poor individual performances will happen of course but the bigger picture, right now doesn't hang together for me. I personally feel a bit of an idiot because I walked out of London Rd thinking "we have a real chance this season", that optimism looks woefully misplaced now. We are all getting ground down with struggle. Last night walking to the ground me and my lad were reminiscing about what it was like in the Premier League days. Walking away reminded me of the meandering days of the late 80's and when the likes of Wadsworth and Richie were manager. If anyone from the hierarchy is reading this hopefully they understand how underwhelming things feel on 25th September 2024. Things, still, need to change. |
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Post by dugnet on Sept 25, 2024 11:30:02 GMT 1
Regards Birmingham, I’m no expert but I am fairly sure they have people employed of more know how in how to get around things then anybody on here, whether that be their sponsorship deals or whatever. They have spent to ensure they will return asap and not one single town fan (if we are being honest) would have complained had we done the same. Whether Mr Nagle accepts it or not, and it might be a bit of an outlier of a season at League One level, but Birmingham and Wrexham will be the clubs that Town will be judged against. He's a wealthy American owner who is falling way behind his fellow nationals. I don't know if that will burn him at all but the comparison will be made. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Sept 25, 2024 11:34:32 GMT 1
Nagle tweets when we lose in a cup game, that hardly means anything. Yet the last two games , silence ? Weird to say the least. Maybe Andre not staying on, was due to the fact he wanted a lot of the squad moving on ? Yet Duff was happy to make do . This squad mentaility is broken in many ways and , due to this it seems to have caused signings in the summer to drop to this level. Duff says he needs to look at the mentaility of the squad. Is Duff and Nagle deaf? The squad themselves are telling you they do not like pressure, Lees and Wiles to name 2 players to say this , or were happy to admit they were outworked.
I bet anything if we do not get promoted this year Nagle will walk, or why is the stadium taking so long to make happen for an apparent billionaire? Judging on the last two preformances and effort level , this team could go straight through to league 2. As so far any real difficult game we seem to yet again fall apart. Nagle needs to understand like Duff , that keeping the players in the dressing room last night to have "tough words" will have meant nothing to them , there body langauage is unless its an easy game they do not care enough to make it happen. Blackpool,Northampton and Rotherham all worked harder we did. That is 3 games out of 7 , not even mentioning the cup games. Even in the wins , Shrewsbury and Stevenage caused us huge issues. The same Shrewsbury team that week before and after got tonked 4-0 and 3-0 . Nagle and co do not want to admit they fucked it up in the summer, but they did to leave the majority of the squad in the place , just drags others down with them. What we are seeing now is if you work hard , our team do not want to match that effort so there you go.
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Post by Scott Chegg on Sept 25, 2024 11:40:16 GMT 1
Alarm bells really should've rung in that first documentary episode when he basically admitted to knowing nothing about us and essentially it was a shot in the dark. We all got drawn in by the glamour and wealth surrounding it - but ultimately, as has been apparent for over 12 months now, Nagle hasn't got a clue about English football, and it's now becoming clearer that he has no ability to employ people who do. It all falls down on his appointments and will continue to do so until he acts. Have to agree - and I can count myself guilty of being drawn in by the glam and wealth. I've probably afforded Nagle more patience and understanding than his running of the club (so far) has deserved. He comes across as naive, but ultimately as a decent(-ish) human being. He's frequently saying things that we want to hear. Stadium issues are nearly solved, we're going to be aggressive in the market etc. There's also been a bit of money spent on the club off-the-pitch this summer, which is good. I'm pleased about that. Long overdue. These are simple things to put right. But it's just not even nearly enough, is it? I was trying so hard to be positive about our recruitment in the summer window, for example. We signed a few midfielders, it felt great. But in the end it was simply the fact that we had signed midfielders that pleased me, rather than the quality of the player. To be honest, I thought they would be a bit better than they have been. Duff has said a few times that his teams are only as good as his wingbacks. Sorensen has either been excellent or dreadful, Miller, fortunately, has been fine, and something just looks very off about Headley. If wingbacks are the most important position in the 3-5-2, it's pretty strange that we only have one player in the squad capable of playing as a wing back on the right. (For anyone who says that Spencer and Kasumu can play there - no they can't. They can provide cover, but that's a different thing.) In a roundabout way, we come to the forward line. Ladapo must be one of the strangest signings in recent times (and hey we've had plenty of those), Marshall is a talented young footballer but he's not a game changer, nor a starter. I'm pleased that we signed him, if I'm honest, but that's mainly because Radu, Ward, and Healey are so frequently unavailable/generally unreliable, that there's just a need for extra bodies. That Koroma is our best forward option at the moment is a sad indictment of our recruitment failures. Yes, he's scored a few goals, but it's just not that much of an achievement at this level. I want to address something that hasn't really been discussed all that much, unfortunately. Andre Breitenreiter said that we had a rotten squad with a bad attitude. Many fans had an issue with it, but Nagle, Edwards, and Cartwright, when pressed, admitted that though they hadn't heard about these problems, they vowed to put it right and take decisive action. Nagle indicated that this was going to be a summer of transition, of aggressive recruitment with many ins and plenty of outs. That was the last we heard of it. We sold Rudoni and loaned out Sorba. Fine. We moved some fringe players on. Good. But that was it. Now we've lost 5 in 6, we're constantly second to the ball, we're not fit enough, we can't pick a pass, there's little movement, we're defensively weak and disorganised. But of course, the spine of the team is exactly the same: Nicholls, Spencer, Lees, Helik, Pearson, Headley, Hogg, Wiles, Kasumu, Koroma, Healey, Ward, Radu. I know that some haven't played all that much, but they're around the squad day-to-day. I mean, it's not even a surprise that the same team that has struggled for the last few years is struggling again. We're lucky that there's plenty of rubbish teams in this league. It unfortunately masks a few things. So the aggressive recruitment/summer of transition that was promised was instead a matter of a few sensible signings... and then Ladapo. A few faces changed, but the culture remains. Are the players responsible for the failure to play Duff's system? Or is Duff's system responsible for the players' failings? The true answer is probably somewhere in between, but erring towards the players being incompetent. Why? Well, they have been for so long. I never want us to spend like Birmingham, or put the future of the club at risk for the sake of one promotion, but I admit texting my friend during the early days of the summer window saying "I hope we act like big boys in this little league... even if it's just acting. Fake it till you make it." When we all knew that big changes were needed, and the leaders at the club admitted as much, and then things went quiet. It's not even about missing out on May or Taylor. It's bigger than that. It's even bigger than Cartwright seemingly only having a shortlist of two or three. It's about ambition really. About whether or not our owner really, and I mean really, wants to change the football club. Or does he just say it because it sounds good? I thought I knew, but now I'm not sure. After around 75 minutes yesterday I tuned out of the game for a bit. Looked around. Lots of empty seats, people leaving early (but not because it's an evening KO early), no atmosphere, poor on-pitch product. Heads were in hands, or being shaken from side to side. Fans were texting friends, probably complaining, or checking other results. It felt like the first round of the Carabao cup, with a stadium only 35% full. I thought to myself in that moment, does Nagle know that it's not meant to be like this? Was this his intention when he took over? Probably not. Right? Surely? But I don't really care about intentions anymore. We need someone who is literate in modern football to make a few ruthless decisions. We seem to be very good at ripping it up, but not very good at starting again. Fantastic post. Saves me commenting further as it's pretty much exactly how I feel. |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Sept 25, 2024 11:45:31 GMT 1
While I'm not disputing that having a chairman who fully understands the English game would perhaps be of benefit, it also shouldn't (and often isn't) be a barrier to succes. The day to day running of the club falls to the CEO, and given Jake Edwards long and relatively recent playing career (albiet in the lower rungs) there should be no excuse of not 'understanding the English game'. With regards to his credentials as a CEO, well he has overseen a period of rapid growth and success in the USL (US Equivalent of the EFL) turning it into a bona-fide professional 3 tier system, much like our own. How any of that translates into running a mid-level English I honestly can't say, but I'm fairly sure there will be a number of transferable skills and experiences that (from Nagle's perspective) made him an ideal candidate to run the club. The point I'm trying make here is that much of criticism of KN doesn't really hold any water, when nearly all of it is being delivered with hindsight. Who at the time was looking at the appointment of Edwards and saying "Here's a man who knows nothing about English football"? hardly anyone I'd wager. You make a fair point in as much as I don't buy this, "he's American, he doesn't understand the English game". What I do think though is reasonable to challenge is what Mr Nagle is actually looking to achieve? There are nebulous ambitions that are understated/not entirely convincing. I can understand the under-promise/over-deliver mentality but the fact this debate is being had suggests less and less people are buying into the journey. That might be because no-one is, currently, sure of the destination. In the crowd yesterday a heard people say, "he's a bullshit merchant", "he's a snake oil salesman". Hearing that might hurt/rile him but that is the reality of how he, and his team, are being perceived. I do think there are good intentions but we are now into nearly 18 months and people don't things are really progressing. Moreover I couldn't strongly argue with anyone that the execution, to date, has been at best disappointing and at worse unstructured/clueless. I suppose what does worry me is that views like this may be dismissed as a fanbase expecting too much. I would counter with the challenge, "is it too much to expect to expect to take a game to the opposition at home in this league"? Overall things may improve this season but no one can tell me that this squad is anywhere near good enough to compete at Championship level (which was a stated aim). Poor individual performances will happen of course but the bigger picture, right now doesn't hang together for me. I personally feel a bit of an idiot because I walked out of London Rd thinking "we have a real chance this season", that optimism looks woefully misplaced now. We are all getting ground down with struggle. Last night walking to the ground me and my lad were reminiscing about what it was like in the Premier League days. Walking away reminded me of the meandering days of the late 80's and when the likes of Wadsworth and Richie were manager. If anyone from the hierarchy is reading this hopefully they understand how underwhelming things feel on 25th September 2024. Things, still, need to change. I agree with everything you've said. I think the single biggest mistake KN has made is to say too much. Fans often decry a 'faceless chairman', but it's fair to say than KN has swung way too far in the opposite direction. By over-exposing himself on SM, and often publicly commenting on matters he shouldn't be commenting on, he has made a rod for his own back and made himself an easy target. He hasn't learned that fans dissect and store every word that gets said, and will gladly use it as a stick to beat with. Speaking of which... It's not anything new, but the amount of hindsight driven criticism from fans on here at the minute is laughable. Decisions that were largely approved of at the time but are now being used as a stick to beat with, that isn't how it works, guys. You simply can't agree with something one day, and then the next say, 'YOU'VE got it wrong again, WE knew it was wrong from the start'. Erm, no, you didn't. The criticism that is justified however, is the failure to act, more specifically, the failure to act in removing someone who has made repeated mistakes. Bottom line for Nagle is: A) Be MUCH more selective about how you use SM and what you say on it. B) Get rid of Cartwright. |
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jjamez
Iain Dunn Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by jjamez on Sept 25, 2024 11:52:39 GMT 1
The buck does stop with kev as he is the owner, however day to day decisions on the club are made by other people, kev just provides the funding and when he does come over digs deep into what that money is going towards.
Jake Edwards as CEO operates the club, mark Cartwright as sporting director or whatever title he has is in charge of what players come in and leave, he's also has a huge say in who is employed on the footballing aspects, such as the manager and coaching staff. Edwards green lights it and kev probably gets a brief run down on it before writing the cheque.
Our problems seem to be on the field, poor management, poor tactics and poor players, that buck and P45 land on the desk of one person. Now will that change anything straight away, fundamentally no, we're between windows, but it does need to happen
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Post by boooothy on Sept 25, 2024 12:03:00 GMT 1
Kevin has made a bollocks of the job so far, how can anyone disagree with that?
What really really really annoys me about Town fans though is this ridiculous assumption that there is a queue of folk waiting to lose a few million a season funding promotion pushes.
Let’s face it, left to our own devices we are below Bradford City when it comes to potential. We only got out of this league due to Hoyle fancying a play thing and we’ve only got promotion chances due to Kevin’s bizarre choice of where to offset his earnings. I feel very lucky he’s here and the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about.
Doesn’t change the fact he’s doing a terrible job but half of all football club owners perform below average.
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Post by Sio on Sept 25, 2024 12:15:57 GMT 1
Kevin has made a bollocks of the job so far, how can anyone disagree with that? What really really really annoys me about Town fans though is this ridiculous assumption that there is a queue of folk waiting to lose a few million a season funding promotion pushes. Let’s face it, left to our own devices we are below Bradford City when it comes to potential. We only got out of this league due to Hoyle fancying a play thing and we’ve only got promotion chances due to Kevin’s bizarre choice of where to offset his earnings. I feel very lucky he’s here and the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about. Doesn’t change the fact he’s doing a terrible job but half of all football club owners perform below average. This is such a bizarre take - you're talking as though the only alternative to Hoyle or Kevin is 'left to our own devices', what, as in DATM runs the club, or some bloke down the Vulcan has to step in? How do you explain similar clubs such as Barnsley and Charlton currently outperforming us, or significantly smaller clubs such as Stockport and Lincoln pushing us close? (and will probably surpass us by the end of the season). You talk of someone who has totally bought into the mindset of us needing to be grateful because a hero has come down to purchase our lowly little football club. Hoyle had at least three selling opportunities on the table and that's not taking into account previous ones over the years (strongly rumoured that someone was looking at us in the midst of the Carlos promotion push?). I respect that you're being critical of Kevin's reign but please do not fall into this trap of thinking that these owners are our saviour and that without them there is no alternative. That's how Hoyle was able to take advantage of the club for his latter months. |
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Post by dugnet on Sept 25, 2024 12:35:16 GMT 1
You make a fair point in as much as I don't buy this, "he's American, he doesn't understand the English game". What I do think though is reasonable to challenge is what Mr Nagle is actually looking to achieve? There are nebulous ambitions that are understated/not entirely convincing. I can understand the under-promise/over-deliver mentality but the fact this debate is being had suggests less and less people are buying into the journey. That might be because no-one is, currently, sure of the destination. In the crowd yesterday a heard people say, "he's a bullshit merchant", "he's a snake oil salesman". Hearing that might hurt/rile him but that is the reality of how he, and his team, are being perceived. I do think there are good intentions but we are now into nearly 18 months and people don't things are really progressing. Moreover I couldn't strongly argue with anyone that the execution, to date, has been at best disappointing and at worse unstructured/clueless. I suppose what does worry me is that views like this may be dismissed as a fanbase expecting too much. I would counter with the challenge, "is it too much to expect to expect to take a game to the opposition at home in this league"? Overall things may improve this season but no one can tell me that this squad is anywhere near good enough to compete at Championship level (which was a stated aim). Poor individual performances will happen of course but the bigger picture, right now doesn't hang together for me. I personally feel a bit of an idiot because I walked out of London Rd thinking "we have a real chance this season", that optimism looks woefully misplaced now. We are all getting ground down with struggle. Last night walking to the ground me and my lad were reminiscing about what it was like in the Premier League days. Walking away reminded me of the meandering days of the late 80's and when the likes of Wadsworth and Richie were manager. If anyone from the hierarchy is reading this hopefully they understand how underwhelming things feel on 25th September 2024. Things, still, need to change. I agree with everything you've said. I think the single biggest mistake KN has made is to say too much. Fans often decry a 'faceless chairman', but it's fair to say than KN has swung way too far in the opposite direction. By over-exposing himself on SM, and often publicly commenting on matters he shouldn't be commenting on, he has made a rod for his own back and made himself an easy target. He hasn't learned that fans dissect and store every word that gets said, and will gladly use it as a stick to beat with. Speaking of which... It's not anything new, but the amount of hindsight driven criticism from fans on here at the minute is laughable. Decisions that were largely approved of at the time but are now being used as a stick to beat with, that isn't how it works, guys. You simply can't agree with something one day, and then the next say, 'YOU'VE got it wrong again, WE knew it was wrong from the start'. Erm, no, you didn't. The criticism that is justified however, is the failure to act, more specifically, the failure to act in removing someone who has made repeated mistakes. Bottom line for Nagle is: A) Be MUCH more selective about how you use SM and what you say on it. B) Get rid of Cartwright. I think that is very fair. My take on the recruitment, now (noting I don't personally make an opinion of a player until I see him in Blue and White stripes), is that they are not suited to the system they are being asked to play. Well, certainly not at home when they can be reasonably expected to be taking the game to the opposition. That indeeds begs the question of recruitment. Not that we have necessarily recruited poor players but have we recruited the right players for the system the manager prefers? Evidence of late would lead you to the conclusion probably not (noting that doesn't mean there isn't a capable team available to play a different way if instructed). I think the one signing that could be reasonably criticised is that of Ladapo. It smacks of a degree of desperation, playing to the noise of the crowd (I wasn't happy with the narrative why we hadn't signed a credible striker but would rather we had stuck with it than adding someone for the sake of it) and a lack of planning overall. I posted elsewhere this morning that as we had given a two year contract to Ladapo couldn't that money been added to the Alfie May offer? I don't think anyone has really taken to Cartwright in how he presents himself. It is of course what he contributes to what we see on the pitch that he should be ultimately judged on. So far he has done little to get any credit in the bank or convince he actually is up to the job he has been asked to do. In that sense many were sceptical when he was appointed and that scepticism seems, so far, to have been entirely fair. As for the use of SM I couldn't agree more. The messaging becomes inconsistent and confused. Moreover this leads/has led to a degree of mistrust in what is said. I go back to my concern about nebulous ambitions. Mr Nagle implies more grandiose targets than he actually commitments to. One one hand Jake Edwards has clearly stated that the club has "so much potential" but the evidence on view is that we aren't really anywhere near on track to realising it. Let me be equally honest and admit that I am aware that I am as guilty as many in reacting after two very poor performances. Things may, and hopefully will turn round. However in the context of what we have witnessed over the past few years the fragility of confidence in those leading the club is probably to be expected. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Sept 25, 2024 12:53:31 GMT 1
You make a fair point in as much as I don't buy this, "he's American, he doesn't understand the English game". What I do think though is reasonable to challenge is what Mr Nagle is actually looking to achieve? There are nebulous ambitions that are understated/not entirely convincing. I can understand the under-promise/over-deliver mentality but the fact this debate is being had suggests less and less people are buying into the journey. That might be because no-one is, currently, sure of the destination. In the crowd yesterday a heard people say, "he's a bullshit merchant", "he's a snake oil salesman". Hearing that might hurt/rile him but that is the reality of how he, and his team, are being perceived. I do think there are good intentions but we are now into nearly 18 months and people don't things are really progressing. Moreover I couldn't strongly argue with anyone that the execution, to date, has been at best disappointing and at worse unstructured/clueless. I suppose what does worry me is that views like this may be dismissed as a fanbase expecting too much. I would counter with the challenge, "is it too much to expect to expect to take a game to the opposition at home in this league"? Overall things may improve this season but no one can tell me that this squad is anywhere near good enough to compete at Championship level (which was a stated aim). Poor individual performances will happen of course but the bigger picture, right now doesn't hang together for me. I personally feel a bit of an idiot because I walked out of London Rd thinking "we have a real chance this season", that optimism looks woefully misplaced now. We are all getting ground down with struggle. Last night walking to the ground me and my lad were reminiscing about what it was like in the Premier League days. Walking away reminded me of the meandering days of the late 80's and when the likes of Wadsworth and Richie were manager. If anyone from the hierarchy is reading this hopefully they understand how underwhelming things feel on 25th September 2024. Things, still, need to change. I agree with everything you've said. I think the single biggest mistake KN has made is to say too much. Fans often decry a 'faceless chairman', but it's fair to say than KN has swung way too far in the opposite direction. By over-exposing himself on SM, and often publicly commenting on matters he shouldn't be commenting on, he has made a rod for his own back and made himself an easy target. He hasn't learned that fans dissect and store every word that gets said, and will gladly use it as a stick to beat with. Speaking of which... It's not anything new, but the amount of hindsight driven criticism from fans on here at the minute is laughable. Decisions that were largely approved of at the time but are now being used as a stick to beat with, that isn't how it works, guys. You simply can't agree with something one day, and then the next say, 'YOU'VE got it wrong again, WE knew it was wrong from the start'. Erm, no, you didn't. The criticism that is justified however, is the failure to act, more specifically, the failure to act in removing someone who has made repeated mistakes. Bottom line for Nagle is: A) Be MUCH more selective about how you use SM and what you say on it. B) Get rid of Cartwright. Finally eyes are opened with regard to all the social media presence of KN and co. As I say, I commented on this months ago and was torn to pieces. As I said then, there is a very good reason no other/very few club owners/owners pals etc are so prominent on social media. People called me out for saying this then but maybe there’s something in the fact that 71 (or the vast majority of) other clubs don’t take that approach. Tinpot |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 25, 2024 12:57:35 GMT 1
Regards Birmingham, I’m no expert but I am fairly sure they have people employed of more know how in how to get around things then anybody on here, whether that be their sponsorship deals or whatever. They have spent to ensure they will return asap and not one single town fan (if we are being honest) would have complained had we done the same. Well you’ve got me wrong then. While I wouldn’t have complained, it would have soured it for me. Call me old fashioned but I detest the fact that so many things in sport are now aligned to the size of the owners wallet, and how much disregard there is for the rules with these owners. They’ve become a hobby for some of these people, and in certain cases these clubs are being run purely for accounting reasons for individuals and corporations. |
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Post by boooothy on Sept 25, 2024 13:01:54 GMT 1
Kevin has made a bollocks of the job so far, how can anyone disagree with that? What really really really annoys me about Town fans though is this ridiculous assumption that there is a queue of folk waiting to lose a few million a season funding promotion pushes. Let’s face it, left to our own devices we are below Bradford City when it comes to potential. We only got out of this league due to Hoyle fancying a play thing and we’ve only got promotion chances due to Kevin’s bizarre choice of where to offset his earnings. I feel very lucky he’s here and the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about. Doesn’t change the fact he’s doing a terrible job but half of all football club owners perform below average. This is such a bizarre take - you're talking as though the only alternative to Hoyle or Kevin is 'left to our own devices', what, as in DATM runs the club, or some bloke down the Vulcan has to step in? How do you explain similar clubs such as Barnsley and Charlton currently outperforming us, or significantly smaller clubs such as Stockport and Lincoln pushing us close? (and will probably surpass us by the end of the season). You talk of someone who has totally bought into the mindset of us needing to be grateful because a hero has come down to purchase our lowly little football club. Hoyle had at least three selling opportunities on the table and that's not taking into account previous ones over the years (strongly rumoured that someone was looking at us in the midst of the Carlos promotion push?). I respect that you're being critical of Kevin's reign but please do not fall into this trap of thinking that these owners are our saviour and that without them there is no alternative. That's how Hoyle was able to take advantage of the club for his latter months. That’s exactly how i see it. Barnsley and Charlton? They are in the doldrums and will be for years. Stockport were the Wrexham of non league before Wrexham and riding a  . Which of the previous owners do you want back other than Hoyle and Nagle? Davey? Potless without parachute money? Long bottom? Binns or whatever they were called. All men who cannot afford a successful club. We’ve been shit for my entire lifetime with the exception of when 3 rich multi millionaires fancied a throw of the dice. Rich owners are not the norm for Huddersfield Town and when they are not here we are shit (yes even shitter than we are right now) |
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Post by royrace on Sept 25, 2024 13:04:08 GMT 1
Fundamental mistake was employing a couple of blokes from the USL. It was naive to think with them being football people he could just put them in charge of a championship club and all would be well.
Until that changes there'll be no success and he'll continue to waste shed loads of money on inappropriate players and managers.
The DoF role is far from easy as he is finding out.
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Sept 25, 2024 13:07:00 GMT 1
Regards Birmingham, I’m no expert but I am fairly sure they have people employed of more know how in how to get around things then anybody on here, whether that be their sponsorship deals or whatever. They have spent to ensure they will return asap and not one single town fan (if we are being honest) would have complained had we done the same. Well you’ve got me wrong then. While I wouldn’t have complained, it would have soured it for me. Call me old fashioned but I detest the fact that so many things in sport are now aligned to the size of the owners wallet, and how much disregard there is for the rules with these owners. They’ve become a hobby for some of these people, and in certain cases these clubs are being run purely for accounting reasons for individuals and corporations. I don’t think I have… I said no town fan would have complained. You say you wouldn’t have complained, surely that means I got you right ? |
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Sept 25, 2024 13:09:22 GMT 1
Badly needs to employ a Director of Football who understands what he’s doing. Until he does he’s just going to be throwing good money after bad.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 25, 2024 13:09:51 GMT 1
Well you’ve got me wrong then. While I wouldn’t have complained, it would have soured it for me. Call me old fashioned but I detest the fact that so many things in sport are now aligned to the size of the owners wallet, and how much disregard there is for the rules with these owners. They’ve become a hobby for some of these people, and in certain cases these clubs are being run purely for accounting reasons for individuals and corporations. I don’t think I have… I said no town fan would have complained. You say you wouldn’t have complained, surely that means I got you right ? If you want to be pedantic, then yes. But I suspect you were generalising that all Town fans would have been OK with Nagle spending £10m on a striker in L1. |
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Post by Justasmithers on Sept 25, 2024 13:11:11 GMT 1
Publicly slates the team with a load of kids making their debuts away in a pointless tournament yet stays silent after these last two disgraceful home performances? 🤔 Its all gone very quiet since the end of the transfer window from KN and I don't recall seeing his sidekick posting on here since then too. Maybe they've decided they've done / are doing their bit off the field, its down to the football to look after the football now. I’m here and reading every day, but yeah- that last part (still working on off the field for my part) |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Sept 25, 2024 13:11:57 GMT 1
I don’t think I have… I said no town fan would have complained. You say you wouldn’t have complained, surely that means I got you right ? If you want to be pedantic, then yes. But I suspect you were generalising that all Town fans would have been OK with Nagle spending £10m on a striker in L1. I think there is a lot of jealousy on here, including you saying things like it would have soured it. If we had gone out and spent what they have and started the season showing the signs of what’s to come that they have, me you and every other town fan would be blowing smoke up KN’s backside right now. Nobody complained when we were in this league last time and Hoyle was splashing the cash. Granted it was a lot smaller numbers in those days. |
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Post by Sio on Sept 25, 2024 13:15:11 GMT 1
This is such a bizarre take - you're talking as though the only alternative to Hoyle or Kevin is 'left to our own devices', what, as in DATM runs the club, or some bloke down the Vulcan has to step in? How do you explain similar clubs such as Barnsley and Charlton currently outperforming us, or significantly smaller clubs such as Stockport and Lincoln pushing us close? (and will probably surpass us by the end of the season). You talk of someone who has totally bought into the mindset of us needing to be grateful because a hero has come down to purchase our lowly little football club. Hoyle had at least three selling opportunities on the table and that's not taking into account previous ones over the years (strongly rumoured that someone was looking at us in the midst of the Carlos promotion push?). I respect that you're being critical of Kevin's reign but please do not fall into this trap of thinking that these owners are our saviour and that without them there is no alternative. That's how Hoyle was able to take advantage of the club for his latter months. That’s exactly how i see it. Barnsley and Charlton? They are in the doldrums and will be for years. Stockport were the Wrexham of non league before Wrexham and riding a . Which of the previous owners do you want back other than Hoyle and Nagle? Davey? Potless without parachute money? Long bottom? Binns or whatever they were called. All men who cannot afford a successful club. We’ve been shit for my entire lifetime with the exception of when 3 rich multi millionaires fancied a throw of the dice. Rich owners are not the norm for Huddersfield Town and when they are not here we are shit (yes even shitter than we are right now) The game and the ownerships involved in it have changed vastly since Hoyle took charge in 2008 - your talk about previous owners before him as though they would be the only viable alternatives is again a completely narrow-minded view. Don't look at the pre-Hoyle days as the norm. Times have moved on. Wealthy owners are a lot more common; and you don't have to rely on some local businessman to step up to the plate especially for a reasonably attractive club like ours. Kevin, on paper, looked like the exact type of owner you would want to come in, and could expect to do so given our potential as a club. I really hope he gets things together because we have a lot of promise that is being criminally unfulfilled. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 25, 2024 13:19:07 GMT 1
I don’t think I have… I said no town fan would have complained. You say you wouldn’t have complained, surely that means I got you right ? If you want to be pedantic, then yes. But I suspect you were generalising that all Town fans would have been OK with Nagle spending £10m on a striker in L1. Don’t think anyone was expecting or hoping we would spend £10m on a player. But we were anticipating having a striker singing better than a free agent. It’s one extreme to the other. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Sept 25, 2024 13:20:09 GMT 1
Kevin has made a bollocks of the job so far, how can anyone disagree with that? What really really really annoys me about Town fans though is this ridiculous assumption that there is a queue of folk waiting to lose a few million a season funding promotion pushes. Let’s face it, left to our own devices we are below Bradford City when it comes to potential. We only got out of this league due to Hoyle fancying a play thing and we’ve only got promotion chances due to Kevin’s bizarre choice of where to offset his earnings. I feel very lucky he’s here and the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about. Doesn’t change the fact he’s doing a terrible job but half of all football club owners perform below average. This is such a bizarre take - you're talking as though the only alternative to Hoyle or Kevin is 'left to our own devices', what, as in DATM runs the club, or some bloke down the Vulcan has to step in? How do you explain similar clubs such as Barnsley and Charlton currently outperforming us, or significantly smaller clubs such as Stockport and Lincoln pushing us close? (and will probably surpass us by the end of the season). You talk of someone who has totally bought into the mindset of us needing to be grateful because a hero has come down to purchase our lowly little football club. Hoyle had at least three selling opportunities on the table and that's not taking into account previous ones over the years (strongly rumoured that someone was looking at us in the midst of the Carlos promotion push?). I respect that you're being critical of Kevin's reign but please do not fall into this trap of thinking that these owners are our saviour and that without them there is no alternative. That's how Hoyle was able to take advantage of the club for his latter months. The town are tiddlers comfort blanket is back out for winter. |
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Post by mosher on Sept 25, 2024 13:53:21 GMT 1
Fundamental mistake was employing a couple of blokes from the USL. It was naive to think with them being football people he could just put them in charge of a championship club and all would be well. Until that changes there'll be no success and he'll continue to waste shed loads of money on inappropriate players and managers. The DoF role is far from easy as he is finding out. That can't be right, he isn't spending remember  Note, not a dig at you Roy, but how many posts have said he's not backed the manager?  |
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