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Post by King Neil on Oct 3, 2024 12:15:50 GMT 1
The trouble is we keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome
Ie..cartwright bringing in all these crocked player's and shit managers!
When are you going to wake up and smell the coffee kev?
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Post by harri54 on Oct 3, 2024 12:20:41 GMT 1
I like KNs diaries & he can say what he wants to wankers on twitter for me, if he shares his opinion on any match it just shows he cares and might talk more sense (despite only knowing US soccer) than some on here! So you think he should be spouting off to well-respected fans such as Pozza for questioning whether we have made the right decisions in the managerial and transfer market? Despite being proved correct time and time again? You honestly think that should be the approach of a chairman trying to fix a failing club? To me that just strengthens the view that we're an incoherent mess from top to bottom. If you're trying to have me imply Pozza is a wanker then poor form! It's blindingly obviously which wankers I was referring to. I'm not on twitter and no idea what the tone of Pozza's post was, but loads of locals misconstrue what I say, so I would imagine any Yank reading a post I might make on twitter would be at a disadvantage. |
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Post by harri54 on Oct 3, 2024 12:25:34 GMT 1
I like KNs diaries & he can say what he wants to wankers on twitter for me, if he shares his opinion on any match it just shows he cares and might talk more sense (despite only knowing US soccer) than some on here! Showing his opinion on our last successful manager under his watch didn't end well did it? Now look at us. I don't think KN is a bad owner, I don't think he's a bad person. I fully believe he is committed to getting us where we need to be, but to do that he's going to need to change his backroom staff, and fast. Fuck it, sack em all. Oh, hang on a minute, the most common criticism in modern football is not giving enough time, how much are crystall balls? |
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Post by King Neil on Oct 3, 2024 12:31:21 GMT 1
Showing his opinion on our last successful manager under his watch didn't end well did it? Now look at us. I don't think KN is a bad owner, I don't think he's a bad person. I fully believe he is committed to getting us where we need to be, but to do that he's going to need to change his backroom staff, and fast. Fuck it, sack em all. Oh, hang on a minute, the most common criticism in modern football is not giving enough time, how much are crystall balls? People are not asking for mass sackings Just one in particular..Cartwright..we are on our 4th manager in 12 months and only seem to be able to employ injured players Why would you continue to do the same thing over and over again when it's not working?? Cartwright is not fit to run a corner shop |
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Post by Sio on Oct 3, 2024 12:49:44 GMT 1
So you think he should be spouting off to well-respected fans such as Pozza for questioning whether we have made the right decisions in the managerial and transfer market? Despite being proved correct time and time again? You honestly think that should be the approach of a chairman trying to fix a failing club? To me that just strengthens the view that we're an incoherent mess from top to bottom. If you're trying to have me imply Pozza is a wanker then poor form! It's blindingly obviously which wankers I was referring to.I'm not on twitter and no idea what the tone of Pozza's post was, but loads of locals misconstrue what I say, so I would imagine any Yank reading a post I might make on twitter would be at a disadvantage. What are you making a judgement on then? |
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Post by King Neil on Oct 3, 2024 12:53:41 GMT 1
Albert Einsteins definition of Insanity
"doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
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Post by harri54 on Oct 3, 2024 13:40:25 GMT 1
If you're trying to have me imply Pozza is a wanker then poor form! It's blindingly obviously which wankers I was referring to.I'm not on twitter and no idea what the tone of Pozza's post was, but loads of locals misconstrue what I say, so I would imagine any Yank reading a post I might make on twitter would be at a disadvantage. What are you making a judgement on then? Those who have been quoted on here. |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by iangreaves on Oct 3, 2024 13:41:46 GMT 1
If I was Kevin I really wouldn’t be trusting any more money to those who have poured millions of my hard-earned down the toilet so far.
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Post by H6dds on Oct 3, 2024 13:47:59 GMT 1
Or rephrased, this is the problem with fan's demands for open communications, digging at every speculation whether credible or not. You get an open communicator and it's either not right or not happening, rarely is just appreciated as one would have thought when it was being demanded! No, I’m sorry but I’m not having that. No fan demanded what the style, volume or type of communication from Nagle. He chose to take this approach, he hasn’t a leg to stand on if he chooses to complain about fans direct messaging him on socials or fans criticism of the things he says. He’s created a monster, which as I’ve said above he will never tame by taking this Wild West approach. You have professionals at the club whose expertise is club communications - use them. Even having your mate Dave coming on here asking fans for their questions is such a terrible way to approach communications. Its not how it should be done, this is a fan forum and debates are here to be had but you have current structures in place through forums, Q&A’s and fan groups where conversations can be had. This public approach to unstructured discussion is chaos and it serves no good. No fans that I’ve seen have demanded anything but an upturn in results which is fair given since he’s taken over, we’ve been relegated and won 13 league games in 55. He’s created the demand, it’s not on the fans and the blame firmly rests with Kevin Nagle and Carmichael Dave who have shown a complete disrespect to their communications department, club staff and fans for thinking that this approach would ever conceivably work. And for what it’s worth, concerns were raised about this communications approach at the ATT and on here when fans like myself questioned it and like others, got knocked back. We had the chairman calling out Pozza publicly on social media after Pozza aired his concerns which funnily enough, were not just legitimate points but also were correct and later proven when we got relegated. There was no demand from Pozza for Kevin to speak, Kevin decided himself to take this approach. I agree with 99% of everything you post on here ben, but tbf one of the most discussed things on here and on twitter before Nagle took over was the fact the club and Hoyle had zero communication with fans, complete silence. It got so extreme that I think many fans just wanted the exact opposite, i.e that the owner should share exactly everything. I can therefore understand if Nagle & co watched this board and town twitter carefully around the time of the takeover and thought "damn, we need to be very open and tell the fans about everything", because that was exactly what the vocal minority was asking from the club at that time. With all that said I guess there is a difference between 'communication' and whatever they have been doing so far, but I think if you go back a year and a half you will see that many fans asked exactly this of the club. As someone who is kind of neutral in this subject (I think both sides are being overly dramatic in how too much/little communication affects the club) it looks to me that it has gone from "TELL US EVERYTHING FFS OR YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FANS", and then all of a sudden "NO SHUT UP YOU DUMB AMERCAN WE DON'T WANNA HEAR ANYTHING", which to me is a little cringe although I recognize it comes from mainly different parts of the fan base. |
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by ben1987 on Oct 3, 2024 14:18:05 GMT 1
No, I’m sorry but I’m not having that. No fan demanded what the style, volume or type of communication from Nagle. He chose to take this approach, he hasn’t a leg to stand on if he chooses to complain about fans direct messaging him on socials or fans criticism of the things he says. He’s created a monster, which as I’ve said above he will never tame by taking this Wild West approach. You have professionals at the club whose expertise is club communications - use them. Even having your mate Dave coming on here asking fans for their questions is such a terrible way to approach communications. Its not how it should be done, this is a fan forum and debates are here to be had but you have current structures in place through forums, Q&A’s and fan groups where conversations can be had. This public approach to unstructured discussion is chaos and it serves no good. No fans that I’ve seen have demanded anything but an upturn in results which is fair given since he’s taken over, we’ve been relegated and won 13 league games in 55. He’s created the demand, it’s not on the fans and the blame firmly rests with Kevin Nagle and Carmichael Dave who have shown a complete disrespect to their communications department, club staff and fans for thinking that this approach would ever conceivably work. And for what it’s worth, concerns were raised about this communications approach at the ATT and on here when fans like myself questioned it and like others, got knocked back. We had the chairman calling out Pozza publicly on social media after Pozza aired his concerns which funnily enough, were not just legitimate points but also were correct and later proven when we got relegated. There was no demand from Pozza for Kevin to speak, Kevin decided himself to take this approach. I agree with 99% of everything you post on here ben, but tbf one of the most discussed things on here and on twitter before Nagle took over was the fact the club and Hoyle had zero communication with fans, complete silence. It got so extreme that I think many fans just wanted the exact opposite, i.e that the owner should share exactly everything. I can therefore understand if Nagle & co watched this board and town twitter carefully around the time of the takeover and thought "damn, we need to be very open and tell the fans about everything", because that was exactly what the vocal minority was asking from the club at that time. With all that said I guess there is a difference between 'communication' and whatever they have been doing so far, but I think if you go back a year and a half you will see that many fans asked exactly this of the club. As someone who is kind of neutral in this subject (I think both sides are being overly dramatic in how too much/little communication affects the club) it looks to me that it has gone from "TELL US EVERYTHING FFS OR YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FANS", and then all of a sudden "NO SHUT UP YOU DUMB AMERCAN WE DON'T WANNA HEAR ANYTHING", which to me is a little cringe although I recognize it comes from mainly different parts of the fan base. To be communicative doesn’t mean to take the approach Kevin’s taken. I was one who lambasted Hoyle for his wall of silence he’d created to protect himself from further criticism of the way he’d plundered the club. However, that doesn’t mean you have to have your chairman engaging on Twitter and datm on the way he’s doing, creating unnecessary headlines and pressure on the club. So whilst you raise a fair point mate, I’ll counter it by saying that there is a balance and his approach is not that. Nothing I’m saying here won’t be anything that the communication team won’t be saying or thinking. |
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Post by King Neil on Oct 3, 2024 14:18:59 GMT 1
I was happy with them being open and still am
Those wanting a bit of silence will be saying.."why the silence from the top" when we get stuffed by Barnsley Saturday and Tuesday
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by ben1987 on Oct 3, 2024 14:19:30 GMT 1
So you think he should be spouting off to well-respected fans such as Pozza for questioning whether we have made the right decisions in the managerial and transfer market? Despite being proved correct time and time again? You honestly think that should be the approach of a chairman trying to fix a failing club? To me that just strengthens the view that we're an incoherent mess from top to bottom. If you're trying to have me imply Pozza is a wanker. Look, if you’re implying that then you’re absolutely correct. |
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Post by workshyfop on Oct 3, 2024 14:27:35 GMT 1
As with everything at the club, there’s nothing wrong with the communication if we’re winning. It’s when one thing is promised/suggested and the results are the complete opposite, e.g. getting relegated from “a position of strength”. You have to back up big statements otherwise you just look like a bit of a fool.
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Post by harri54 on Oct 3, 2024 14:28:22 GMT 1
If you're trying to have me imply Pozza is a wanker. Look, if you’re implying that then you’re absolutely correct. Not good quoting there, but I forgive you. |
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htfcterry
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:2]htfcterry
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Post by htfcterry on Oct 3, 2024 16:10:32 GMT 1
Showing his opinion on our last successful manager under his watch didn't end well did it? Now look at us. I don't think KN is a bad owner, I don't think he's a bad person. I fully believe he is committed to getting us where we need to be, but to do that he's going to need to change his backroom staff, and fast. Fuck it, sack em all. Oh, hang on a minute, the most common criticism in modern football is not giving enough time, how much are crystall balls? That's not quite what I said, but OK. |
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Post by richhtfc on Oct 3, 2024 16:15:58 GMT 1
Albert Einsteins definition of Insanity "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" Never heard this quote before… apart from almost daily for the last 10 years on here obviously. From Google: No, Albert Einstein did not say, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". The quote is commonly misattributed to Einstein, but there is no evidence that he ever said it. The quote is actually attributed to the fictional character "Jane Fulton" in the 1983 book Sudden Death by mystery novelist Rita Mae Brown. Michael Becker, an editor at the Bozeman Daily Chronicle, traced the quote back to Brown's book after an incorrect version appeared in an editorial |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Oct 3, 2024 16:20:58 GMT 1
Wish people would stop going on about other teams games in hand so we can drop further. It isn't the final week of the season, the games in hand aren't this midweek, so those sorts of comments are nonsense and pointless, because by the time those games in hand come around, the table will look different to how it does now. It's not the final week of the season. If it was, fair enough, but it isn't, so the games in hand nonsense peddled by some (including saying we can drop further places because of them) is, to put it simply, totally irrelevant. Nobody even has a game in hand scheduled until the back end of October, and even then it's currently only 3 games, and there's an international break to come which will mean most teams having games postponed (likely including us) They are just pointing out our real position, no point in sticking your head in the sand. Too many fans have been doing that for years now allowing the owner's free reign to run the club into the ground. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Oct 3, 2024 16:32:03 GMT 1
What utter utter bollocks. The Warnock debate has been done to desth on here, but you go behind your boss' back and see what happens. Nobody is bigger than the club and Warnock was a cause of his own sacking. Ruffels, Ward and his sons agency. The whole social media thing I really don't see the issue. I see it as passio and care. He has never signalled anyone out, that's how you've twisted it. Again, the use of the word 'lambasting'is also way over the top. The money these so called professionals are paid, they should have a backbone and take the stick they have deserved, publicly or not. You're spending a lot of time spouting about Kev and Dave. So whats the point on them winding Swansea fans up? Especially Dave, he has nothing to do with the club apart from he feeds back to his mate. Such a bipolar fanbase, its cringe and pathetic. It's the same old story, a few wins it's all 'we will be promoted bla bla' a few defeats and it's 'Nagle is shit bla bla'. This Warnock is the cause of his own sacking again. It has been said on here numerous times and still nobody is willing to commit to what exactly the cause was? The Warnock thing has been done too many times on here, whatever the reason for him going, the fact remains that it has been all downhill since he did leave. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 3, 2024 17:06:25 GMT 1
I said this exact thing months ago and was shot down on here for it. No other clubs I am aware of have the same approach, I wonder why.. Absolutely no need for the twitter posts, diary’s etc when you have paid communications team who are professionals at it. All it does is make us look tinpot and more importantly, opens Nagle up for a battering every time something doesn’t happen that he/his side kick says will do. It would appear however that the pair of them have learnt their lesson now. One can hope anyway. Shouldn't make any difference whatsoever to the footballing side. It's also impossible for it to be mixed messaging since we hear absolutely nothing from the CEO, DoF, marketing team etc. The chairman's diaries and the odd tweet are the least of our problems. Had we not had Comms from the chairman I think we'd be even more worried about his motives and plan for for future etc than we are now. Very much hoping he is taking some qualified advice in the background with a view to salvaging the season and future league standing. Shouldnt but it does, Nagle makes a twitter post resulting in Warnock going. In my book that made a difference football wise. As I say, there is a reason no other club has this approach. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 3, 2024 17:08:31 GMT 1
I said this exact thing months ago and was shot down on here for it. No other clubs I am aware of have the same approach, I wonder why.. Absolutely no need for the twitter posts, diary’s etc when you have paid communications team who are professionals at it. All it does is make us look tinpot and more importantly, opens Nagle up for a battering every time something doesn’t happen that he/his side kick says will do. It would appear however that the pair of them have learnt their lesson now. One can hope anyway. I like KNs diaries & he can say what he wants to wankers on twitter for me, if he shares his opinion on any match it just shows he cares and might talk more sense (despite only knowing US soccer) than some on here! Certainly a lot more than you. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 3, 2024 17:12:11 GMT 1
This Warnock is the cause of his own sacking again. It has been said on here numerous times and still nobody is willing to commit to what exactly the cause was? The Warnock thing has been done too many times on here, whatever the reason for him going, the fact remains that it has been all downhill since he did leave. I know it has! I’m just seeking clarity from those who still claim he was the architect of his own downfall as to how exactly. Also the fact is was such a moronic thing to do, it’s bound to be talked about whilst things continue to be worse following it. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
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Post by goodbet on Oct 3, 2024 17:16:38 GMT 1
You wouldn’t need to be Domenic Nostredamus to predict that promoting the “global brand” of a football club in the bottom half of League 1 is going to be utterly futile. Very true. And why it’s essential we rescue this season. I agree but Wrexham have shown how a bit of Hollywood razzmatazz and well planned transfers can galvanise a club. |
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Post by dugnet on Oct 3, 2024 18:03:21 GMT 1
To be fair to Mr Nagle unless he changes anything at the club, and many would advocate that some things need to change or at the very least be reviewed (which could well be happening), there is very little he can say.
I don't think his negative responses on X help anything and are possibly a bit naive.
If performances and results don't pick up something will need to change. For me that change happens before he communicates his thinking and plans going forward.
If things pick up then he can do a diary and review the last period.
The real question is of course if things don't improve at what point does he decide to change something. We know what we see but of course he sees things from a different perspective entirely. However that doesn't mean doing nothing is the right answer.
None of this is ideal. We hoped to look strong and coherent in this league. We look anything but. As promotion was the target as fans we ask the questions about what is happening and what will be done.
I can’t call what the outcome will be of course but I do know more of what we have seen will result in two things; The clamour for answers to become ever more vociferous and/or interest and attendances to dwindle.
If there is any change it needs to be thought through and with the long term future in mind. It is at that point an explanation will be required.
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Post by townarentbest on Oct 4, 2024 10:49:03 GMT 1
Albert Einsteins definition of Insanity "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" Never heard this quote before… apart from almost daily for the last 10 years on here obviously. From Google: No, Albert Einstein did not say, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". The quote is commonly misattributed to Einstein, but there is no evidence that he ever said it. The quote is actually attributed to the fictional character "Jane Fulton" in the 1983 book Sudden Death by mystery novelist Rita Mae Brown. Michael Becker, an editor at the Bozeman Daily Chronicle, traced the quote back to Brown's book after an incorrect version appeared in an editorial If you're interested in the etymology of stuff like that - that definition of insanity is also contained earlier in "Step Two" of this 1981 Narcotics Anonymous pamphlet - which is adapted from an AA document so potentially was established even earlier. Likely thats where Rita Mae Brown picked up the phrase, either directly or indirectly...I'm not in any way casting dubious aspersions, but its reasonably likely that an American novelist of the 70's and 80's was at least in contact (knowingly or not) with those who dabbled in drugs and used the phrase which stuck in her subconcious. web.archive.org/web/20121202030403/http://www.amonymifoundation.org/uploads/NA_Approval_Form_Scan.pdf |
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Post by richhtfc on Oct 4, 2024 10:59:03 GMT 1
Never heard this quote before… apart from almost daily for the last 10 years on here obviously. From Google: No, Albert Einstein did not say, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". The quote is commonly misattributed to Einstein, but there is no evidence that he ever said it. The quote is actually attributed to the fictional character "Jane Fulton" in the 1983 book Sudden Death by mystery novelist Rita Mae Brown. Michael Becker, an editor at the Bozeman Daily Chronicle, traced the quote back to Brown's book after an incorrect version appeared in an editorial If you're interested in the etymology of stuff like that - that definition of insanity is also contained earlier in "Step Two" of this 1981 Narcotics Anonymous pamphlet - which is adapted from an AA document so potentially was established even earlier. Likely thats where Rita Mae Brown picked up the phrase, either directly or indirectly...I'm not in any way casting dubious aspersions, but its reasonably likely that an American novelist of the 70's and 80's was at least in contact (knowingly or not) with those who dabbled in drugs and used the phrase which stuck in her subconcious. web.archive.org/web/20121202030403/http://www.amonymifoundation.org/uploads/NA_Approval_Form_Scan.pdfInteresting sounds right, I just know it’s an annoying misquote and pasted what Google ai came up with  . |
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Post by King Neil on Oct 4, 2024 11:20:41 GMT 1
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Post by twyford on Oct 4, 2024 14:56:47 GMT 1
I agree with 99% of everything you post on here ben, but tbf one of the most discussed things on here and on twitter before Nagle took over was the fact the club and Hoyle had zero communication with fans, complete silence. It got so extreme that I think many fans just wanted the exact opposite, i.e that the owner should share exactly everything. I can therefore understand if Nagle & co watched this board and town twitter carefully around the time of the takeover and thought "damn, we need to be very open and tell the fans about everything", because that was exactly what the vocal minority was asking from the club at that time. With all that said I guess there is a difference between 'communication' and whatever they have been doing so far, but I think if you go back a year and a half you will see that many fans asked exactly this of the club. As someone who is kind of neutral in this subject (I think both sides are being overly dramatic in how too much/little communication affects the club) it looks to me that it has gone from "TELL US EVERYTHING FFS OR YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FANS", and then all of a sudden "NO SHUT UP YOU DUMB AMERCAN WE DON'T WANNA HEAR ANYTHING", which to me is a little cringe although I recognize it comes from mainly different parts of the fan base. To be communicative doesn’t mean to take the approach Kevin’s taken. I was one who lambasted Hoyle for his wall of silence he’d created to protect himself from further criticism of the way he’d plundered the club. However, that doesn’t mean you have to have your chairman engaging on Twitter and datm on the way he’s doing, creating unnecessary headlines and pressure on the club. So whilst you raise a fair point mate, I’ll counter it by saying that there is a balance and his approach is not that. Nothing I’m saying here won’t be anything that the communication team won’t be saying or thinking. plundered the club to the extent that he remains tens of millions of pounds out of pocket! |
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Post by King Neil on Oct 4, 2024 15:14:22 GMT 1
To be communicative doesn’t mean to take the approach Kevin’s taken. I was one who lambasted Hoyle for his wall of silence he’d created to protect himself from further criticism of the way he’d plundered the club. However, that doesn’t mean you have to have your chairman engaging on Twitter and datm on the way he’s doing, creating unnecessary headlines and pressure on the club. So whilst you raise a fair point mate, I’ll counter it by saying that there is a balance and his approach is not that. Nothing I’m saying here won’t be anything that the communication team won’t be saying or thinking. plundered the club to the extent that he remains tens of millions of pounds out of pocket! And gave us 13 years of great memories and Premier league football Yet the bloke we have now seems to be cursed...Premier league in 3 years...its more like vanarama in 3 years |
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Post by harri54 on Oct 4, 2024 16:04:16 GMT 1
plundered the club to the extent that he remains tens of millions of pounds out of pocket! And gave us 13 years of great memories and Premier league football Yet the bloke we have now seems to be cursed...Premier league in 3 years...its more like vanarama in 3 years It took DH a while. KN may have underestimated the challenge prior to his 3 year ambitious plan being made public, but he has not said the ultimate target has changed. |
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Post by Scott Chegg on Oct 4, 2024 16:29:48 GMT 1
And gave us 13 years of great memories and Premier league football Yet the bloke we have now seems to be cursed...Premier league in 3 years...its more like vanarama in 3 years It took DH a while. KN may have underestimated the challenge prior to his 3 year ambitious plan being made public, but he has not said the ultimate target has changed. Ahhh thank fuck for that. We're pretty much nailed on for back to back automatic promotions now then 👍 |
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