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Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 11:06:19 GMT 1
Some Town fans love rewriting history and are desperate to blindly follow whatever the club does as they think it makes them a better fan. A bit like the "he was a temporary manager" bollocks. He signed a one-year deal, the club said "ONE MORE YEAR" and Ronnie Jepson even said he thought they'd be there until the end of the season. He must be the only "temporary manager" to be able to take charge of pre-season, sign players, part ways with existing staff and bring in his own staff, all on two-year contracts. It's all been twisted because Warnock said he thought he'd be here until Christmas. That isn't "Warnock was leaving at Christmas" that's Warnock saying he THOUGHT he'd be here until Christmas. If he thought he'd only be here until xmas ( at the very latest!) ,,, then he was a temporary manager then FFS!! They wanted him to stay to do pre season and sign players..that was his job! What they were paying him to do. tell you what..lets call him a 'permanent manager for up to 4 months' then if it makes you happy!  Sorry but you're just arguing that black is white at this point, not even worthy of discussion. You're wrong. The end. |
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Post by boooothy on Oct 30, 2023 11:06:39 GMT 1
Warnock and Jepson were here for the FULL season, that’s why they had a full years contract , they both expected to be here for the full season, f**k all to do with Xmas. Nagel expected them and wanted them for the full season. It’s doesn’t matter how many times it’s said some just won’t believe it. Every single bit of evidence backs this up. The contracts to Warnock’s staff, Jordan Rhodes, Ben Wiles, the Josh Ruffells u turn, Jepson’s interview, the fact he’s looking for another job……the list is endless On the flip side, an off the cuff remark from Warnock about Christmas while trying to disguise the fact he’d been sacked to avoid embarrassment and protect everyone’s ridiculous pay offs. |
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Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 11:07:12 GMT 1
You keep telling us mate that there are plenty of happy faces around the training ground with Moore’s coaching. Good lad What’s the training ground to do with your original post.Players have no issues with Moore. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Oct 30, 2023 11:07:57 GMT 1
Reality is we are going to have to wait until the end of the January window to judge Kev, Cartwright and Moore…until then they are mainly dealing with the completely shite hand they were dealt when they started……. We might have to wait until the end of next summer's window in all honesty. He was only here a couple of months in the summer, so not really enough time for him to have a massive impact. I don't think a lot of the outs were anything to do with him, I doubt he was the decision maker in letting Holmes, Rhodes, Boyle, Bilo etc go, and he wont have had any real input in giving Ward a new contract and re-signing Ruffles. Edwards most probably was his only signing, as he would have known him from Stoke and also New York Red Bulls for who he played over 50 times. Burgzorg most likely came from our scouts / analysts who suggested him to Cartwright, rather than Cartwright himself. He and Warnock probably thought he was worth a punt on loan, especially as they seemed confident of getting a striker. Warnock was most probably aware of Maxwell and brought him in as goalkeeper cover. And I would say that from everything Warnock said about him once he signed, Ben Wiles was a Warnock signing. January, whilst we need it to be a good one and we need 2-3 good players in, is only a short window and not as many players move. So it's next summer that's really the one for him to be judged on in my opinion. Granted he may have been central to Darren Moores appointment, however, I can understand why he/we went for him 48 matches at West Brom in the PL & Championship (where they were 4th when he left) gained him 23 wins and 13 draws. 82 points 78 Games at Doncaster in league one gained him 36 wins and 14 draws. 122 points 129 matches at Wednesday in League One gained him 66 wins and 32 draws. 230 points. Football is ultimately a results business. 434 points in 255 games is pretty good. 125 wins, 59 draws and only 71 losses (1 in 4 games) is again pretty good. It's not working at the moment due to our squad being woefully weak and injuries biting...But that's not really Cartwrights fault. There have been others who were at the club for a lot longer that are more to blame than Cartwright |
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 30, 2023 11:09:56 GMT 1
The years contract was just what he demanded to stay. Hes no fool and he knew he was in a strong bargaining position. Didnt Jepson get a 2 year deal? Does that mean he thought he'd be here a year after warnock left?? No it means warnock got him a great deal to stay....if its a 4 months, 1 month, or 2 days..you get paid the length of your contract.. full years money in NWs case. Sorry but the idea warnock would do a nice pally press conference and lie through his teeth to help out the people who'd just sacked him and gone back on their word..and also agree to carry on managing the team until his replacement arrived , is absurd IMO. How out of character would that be? Im going to believe Warnock on this one. Captain you can believe what you want, however I’ll give you two words “ reputational damage” Not having that, too much of a stretch. Warnocks been sacked countless times..his reputation hasnt been damaged. You really think Warnock would go so helpfully and amicably if he thought he'd been unduly sacked , lied to and betrayed by the owner? Not a cat in hells chance. |
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Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 11:10:58 GMT 1
Reality is we are going to have to wait until the end of the January window to judge Kev, Cartwright and Moore…until then they are mainly dealing with the completely shite hand they were dealt when they started……. We might have to wait until the end of next summer's window in all honesty. He was only here a couple of months in the summer, so not really enough time for him to have a massive impact. I don't think a lot of the outs were anything to do with him, I doubt he was the decision maker in letting Holmes, Rhodes, Boyle, Bilo etc go, and he wont have had any real input in giving Ward a new contract and re-signing Ruffles. Edwards most probably was his only signing, as he would have known him from Stoke and also New York Red Bulls for who he played over 50 times. Burgzorg most likely came from our scouts / analysts who suggested him to Cartwright, rather than Cartwright himself. He and Warnock probably thought he was worth a punt on loan, especially as they seemed confident of getting a striker. Warnock was most probably aware of Maxwell and brought him in as goalkeeper cover. And I would say that from everything Warnock said about him once he signed, Ben Wiles was a Warnock signing. January, whilst we need it to be a good one and we need 2-3 good players in, is only a short window and not as many players move. So it's next summer that's really the one for him to be judged on in my opinion. Granted he may have been central to Darren Moores appointment, however, I can understand why he/we went for him 48 matches at West Brom in the PL & Championship (where they were 4th when he left) gained him 23 wins and 13 draws. 82 points 78 Games at Doncaster in league one gained him 36 wins and 14 draws. 122 points 129 matches at Wednesday in League One gained him 66 wins and 32 draws. 230 points. Football is ultimately a results business. 434 points in 255 games is pretty good. 125 wins, 59 draws and only 71 losses (1 in 4 games) is again pretty good. It's not working at the moment due to our squad being woefully weak and injuries biting...But that's not really Cartwrights fault. There have been others who were at the club for a lot longer that are more to blame than Cartwright Absolutely spot on ! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 30, 2023 11:12:43 GMT 1
If he thought he'd only be here until xmas ( at the very latest!) ,,, then he was a temporary manager then FFS!! They wanted him to stay to do pre season and sign players..that was his job! What they were paying him to do. tell you what..lets call him a 'permanent manager for up to 4 months' then if it makes you happy! Sorry but you're just arguing that black is white at this point, not even worthy of discussion. You're wrong. The end. Im arguing that black is white?? What, because Im agreeing with what the people involved say happened and not some people on the web who werent involved in any way? Righto.  'Never mind what the scientists say..the earths flat. Youre wrong. The end.' |
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Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 11:15:03 GMT 1
Captain you can believe what you want, however I’ll give you two words “ reputational damage” Not having that, too much of a stretch. Warnocks been sacked countless times..his reputation hasnt been damaged. You really think Warnock would go so helpfully and amicably if he thought he'd been unduly sacked , lied to and betrayed by the owner? Not a cat in hells chance. I aren’t getting into a running commentary , you can believe what you want, Warnocks reputation in football is great about getting results the rest of his reputation is quite simply a shit show.” Are you with me 🤑” |
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 30, 2023 11:16:46 GMT 1
Not having that, too much of a stretch. Warnocks been sacked countless times..his reputation hasnt been damaged. You really think Warnock would go so helpfully and amicably if he thought he'd been unduly sacked , lied to and betrayed by the owner? Not a cat in hells chance. I aren’t getting into a running commentary , you can believe what you want, Warnocks reputation in football is great about getting results the rest of his reputation is quite simply a shit show.” Are you with me 🤑” Oh Im with you on that. I know someone who worked at Leeds when he was there. Hmm, best not go there. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2023 11:18:41 GMT 1
This clown has already showed his ability.
Stoke is one of the biggest money pits in the championship. Spent a fortune and never above lower mid table.
Under what premise did we think he would be a good hire?
I don't understand how people get these positions with little to no prior success.
I said it weeks ago; Edwards was a signing for the boys - my god how right i was. Got to be up there with one of the worst players I've seen at town. He should be ashamed of himself looking so overweight and being ran ragged week after week. Looks like a bouncer at weatherspoons on a wednesday night.
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Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 11:21:16 GMT 1
Edwards as CEO and Cartwright have been dreadful appointments and it’s all entirely down to big Kev. Edwards has never held a senior role at an EFL club and even in the states headed up their version of the football league but has never been club based. As for Cartwright, he hasn’t been involved in English football for at least 5 years (things change fast in the footballing world) and even then wasn’t exactly highly regarded. It’s hardly surprising that even with our pathetic budget, we’ve been unable to attract any players or unearth a hidden gem. Complete rubbish ! Do you have a counter argument? Kevin obviously needed a lot of advice on all aspects of running the football side. How have those footballing decisions gone so far would you say? I would say pretty much every single one, bar from keeping on an experienced head in Warnock for the season, has been a complete disaster. Failed to assess the squad properly. Failed to strengthen the key areas despite clear evidence the season before. Let players go before arranging replacements, Rhodes FFS before replacing him. Got rid of key coaching staff for three month temp replacements (yeah right). Signed players who are nowhere near the standard required, this wasn't unlucky, a five minute desktop study on Edwards and Burgzorg would tell you all you needed to know on their suitability/quality. Took a huge, foolish and unnecessary risk in sacking Warnock (yes he was sacked in all but name, he knew it, they knew it, we know it). That decision alone has likely condemned us to L1 next season and it was oh so predictable. Appointed a totally unsuitable manager and full coaching team on a three year deal. I'll give them 1/10 so far. Complete shitshow. If the budget provided by KN didnt allow them any scope then they get some allowance however it's their job to advise of the repercussions, have they done that or just decided to toe the line and take the money. If KN demanded Warnock be sacked then again they get some allowance but again their job to advise against it or at least make sure the replacement is adequate and suitable. |
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Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 11:26:22 GMT 1
Do you have a counter argument? Kevin obviously needed a lot of advice on all aspects of running the football side. How have those footballing decisions gone so far would you say? I would say pretty much every single one, bar from keeping on an experienced head in Warnock for the season, has been a complete disaster. Failed to assess the squad properly. Failed to strengthen the key areas despite clear evidence the season before. Let players go before arranging replacements, Rhodes FFS before replacing him. Got rid of key coaching staff for three month temp replacements (yeah right). Signed players who are nowhere near the standard required, this wasn't unlucky, a five minute desktop study on Edwards and Burgzorg would tell you all you needed to know on their suitability/quality. Took a huge, foolish and unnecessary risk in sacking Warnock (yes he was sacked in all but name, he knew it, they knew it, we know it). That decision alone has likely condemned us to L1 next season and it was oh so predictable. Appointed a totally unsuitable manager and full coaching team on a three year deal. I'll give them 1/10 so far. Complete shitshow. If the budget provided by KN didnt allow them any scope then they get some allowance however it's their job to advise of the repercussions, have they done that or just decided to toe the line and take the money. If KN demanded Warnock be sacked then again they get some allowance but again their job to advise against it or at least make sure the replacement is adequate and suitable. Wrong on just about every level, will give you a response a bit later. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Oct 30, 2023 11:28:34 GMT 1
Edwards as CEO and Cartwright have been dreadful appointments and it’s all entirely down to big Kev. Edwards has never held a senior role at an EFL club and even in the states headed up their version of the football league but has never been club based. As for Cartwright, he hasn’t been involved in English football for at least 5 years (things change fast in the footballing world) and even then wasn’t exactly highly regarded. It’s hardly surprising that even with our pathetic budget, we’ve been unable to attract any players or unearth a hidden gem. Cartwight was at Stoke from 2012 - 2019. Premier League 2012/13 season - 13th 2013 / 14 season - 9th 2014 / 15 season - 9th 2015 / 16 season - 9th 2016 / 17 season - 13th 2017 / 18 season - 19th Relegated 2018 / 19 season - Championship 19th So whilst it didn't end great (things often don't). the first 5 seasons we're pretty good. He must have been responsible for the signing of some good players in that time. |
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goodbet
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Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 11:33:09 GMT 1
Reality is we are going to have to wait until the end of the January window to judge Kev, Cartwright and Moore…until then they are mainly dealing with the completely shite hand they were dealt when they started……. We might have to wait until the end of next summer's window in all honesty. He was only here a couple of months in the summer, so not really enough time for him to have a massive impact. I don't think a lot of the outs were anything to do with him, I doubt he was the decision maker in letting Holmes, Rhodes, Boyle, Bilo etc go, and he wont have had any real input in giving Ward a new contract and re-signing Ruffles. Edwards most probably was his only signing, as he would have known him from Stoke and also New York Red Bulls for who he played over 50 times. Burgzorg most likely came from our scouts / analysts who suggested him to Cartwright, rather than Cartwright himself. He and Warnock probably thought he was worth a punt on loan, especially as they seemed confident of getting a striker. Warnock was most probably aware of Maxwell and brought him in as goalkeeper cover. And I would say that from everything Warnock said about him once he signed, Ben Wiles was a Warnock signing. January, whilst we need it to be a good one and we need 2-3 good players in, is only a short window and not as many players move. So it's next summer that's really the one for him to be judged on in my opinion. Granted he may have been central to Darren Moores appointment, however, I can understand why he/we went for him 48 matches at West Brom in the PL & Championship (where they were 4th when he left) gained him 23 wins and 13 draws. 82 points 78 Games at Doncaster in league one gained him 36 wins and 14 draws. 122 points 129 matches at Wednesday in League One gained him 66 wins and 32 draws. 230 points. Football is ultimately a results business. 434 points in 255 games is pretty good. 125 wins, 59 draws and only 71 losses (1 in 4 games) is again pretty good. It's not working at the moment due to our squad being woefully weak and injuries biting...But that's not really Cartwrights fault. There have been others who were at the club for a lot longer that are more to blame than Cartwright If we wait until after the summer window we will be down by then and probably the die will be set for another relegation. Why not fiddle while Rome burns. So who made all the decisions about the squad then? No manager has the authority to sign players and only advises on who gets a contract or not. If the squad is not Cartwrights fault whose fault is it. He is paid to manage the squad and sign players and failed spectacularly at this. Giving him the January window seems to be a step too far but to leave him in place for the summer as well would be criminal. |
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yoda2169
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Post by yoda2169 on Oct 30, 2023 11:46:40 GMT 1
Reality is we are going to have to wait until the end of the January window to judge Kev, Cartwright and Moore…until then they are mainly dealing with the completely shite hand they were dealt when they started……. we need to get rid of moore hes not upto the job we gone backwards and the players arnt playing for him |
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Post by JonsonClarkParis on Oct 30, 2023 11:50:05 GMT 1
Massive mistake bringing this guy in
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Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 11:51:58 GMT 1
I aren’t getting into a running commentary , you can believe what you want, Warnocks reputation in football is great about getting results the rest of his reputation is quite simply a shit show.” Are you with me 🤑” Oh Im with you on that. I know someone who worked at Leeds when he was there. Hmm, best not go there. Gosh, quite the revelation there. Who would have thought NW could be a right pita to work with/for/manage?! Erm... everyone! If they didn't see that coming and make allowances then it's just another indictment on their own judgement. Particularly since they'd already employed him for the few months preceding! Scraping the barrel now trying to defend the club. |
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Oct 30, 2023 11:56:54 GMT 1
We might have to wait until the end of next summer's window in all honesty. He was only here a couple of months in the summer, so not really enough time for him to have a massive impact. I don't think a lot of the outs were anything to do with him, I doubt he was the decision maker in letting Holmes, Rhodes, Boyle, Bilo etc go, and he wont have had any real input in giving Ward a new contract and re-signing Ruffles. Edwards most probably was his only signing, as he would have known him from Stoke and also New York Red Bulls for who he played over 50 times. Burgzorg most likely came from our scouts / analysts who suggested him to Cartwright, rather than Cartwright himself. He and Warnock probably thought he was worth a punt on loan, especially as they seemed confident of getting a striker. Warnock was most probably aware of Maxwell and brought him in as goalkeeper cover. And I would say that from everything Warnock said about him once he signed, Ben Wiles was a Warnock signing. January, whilst we need it to be a good one and we need 2-3 good players in, is only a short window and not as many players move. So it's next summer that's really the one for him to be judged on in my opinion. Granted he may have been central to Darren Moores appointment, however, I can understand why he/we went for him 48 matches at West Brom in the PL & Championship (where they were 4th when he left) gained him 23 wins and 13 draws. 82 points 78 Games at Doncaster in league one gained him 36 wins and 14 draws. 122 points 129 matches at Wednesday in League One gained him 66 wins and 32 draws. 230 points. Football is ultimately a results business. 434 points in 255 games is pretty good. 125 wins, 59 draws and only 71 losses (1 in 4 games) is again pretty good. It's not working at the moment due to our squad being woefully weak and injuries biting...But that's not really Cartwrights fault. There have been others who were at the club for a lot longer that are more to blame than Cartwright If we wait until after the summer window we will be down by then and probably the die will be set for another relegation. Why not fiddle while Rome burns. So who made all the decisions about the squad then? No manager has the authority to sign players and only advises on who gets a contract or not. If the squad is not Cartwrights fault whose fault is it. He is paid to manage the squad and sign players and failed spectacularly at this. Giving him the January window seems to be a step too far but to leave him in place for the summer as well would be criminal. So you honestly think that Cartwright was responsible for the sale of Holmes 9 days after he arrived at the club and Boyle 10 days after he arrived at the club etc. You honestly think he was central to the sale of Bilo (one of the best young keepers in the EFL) and bringing Maxwell in 18 days after he arrived at the club. You honestly think that Cartwright decided to loan Rhodes out just before the window closed and Simpson out 23 days after arriving at the club. Warnock said that Simpson needed games and he hardly ever played Rhodes. But yeah it was Cartwright that decided to loan them both out. You honestly think he signed Burgzorg on loan after only been here 6 weeks? You honest think that he signed Ben Wiles and not the manager who's been managing teams in the Championship ever since the lad made his debut for Rotherham. You honestly think that 13 days after arriving at the club it was his decision to give Danny Ward a 2 year contact and not the decision of a manager that's had him at 3 clubs, including this one. And 1 month and 1 day after arriving at the club he was the one to bring Josh Ruffles back to the club and not the guy that had pretty much selected him in every game he'd managed at the end of the previous season. We played our first league game 1 month and 2 days after Cartwright arrive and the Transfer window closed less than 2 months after he arrived. And your trying to say that the players that left, those we resigned and those we signed are Cartwrights and that the state of the squad is Cartwrights fault....Wow |
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Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 11:57:53 GMT 1
Oh Im with you on that. I know someone who worked at Leeds when he was there. Hmm, best not go there. Gosh, quite the revelation there. Who would have thought NW could be a right pita to work with/for/manage?! Erm... everyone! If they didn't see that coming and make allowances then it's just another indictment on their own judgement. Particularly since they'd already employed him for the few months preceding! Scraping the barrel now trying to defend the club. Hoyle employed him , to just get results, Nagel employed him when everything had not been put in place, lines of responsibilities were “ blurred”. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 30, 2023 12:03:28 GMT 1
Oh Im with you on that. I know someone who worked at Leeds when he was there. Hmm, best not go there. Gosh, quite the revelation there. Who would have thought NW could be a right pita to work with/for/manage?! Erm... everyone! If they didn't see that coming and make allowances then it's just another indictment on their own judgement. Particularly since they'd already employed him for the few months preceding! Scraping the barrel now trying to defend the club. Why do you think Im defending the club? Im just agreeing with what warnock says and not thinking I know what went on more than he does because hes lying or the sort who would be extremely helpful and dishonest to help out people who'd just unduly sacked him. I dont feel the need to create some sinister narrative around everything that happens at the club. They hadnt employed him for a few months before..Hoyle had. |
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Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 12:05:15 GMT 1
Gosh, quite the revelation there. Who would have thought NW could be a right pita to work with/for/manage?! Erm... everyone! If they didn't see that coming and make allowances then it's just another indictment on their own judgement. Particularly since they'd already employed him for the few months preceding! Scraping the barrel now trying to defend the club. Hoyle employed him , to just get results, Nagel employed him when everything had not been put in place, lines of responsibilities were “ blurred”. Who's fault is that? If you've delivered a pathetically weak squad you let the only man capable secure safety for another season and put all egos aside for the sake of the club. Then normal service can resume with the next incumbent. As was the original plan presumably... If not it should have been. |
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Oct 30, 2023 12:07:56 GMT 1
Gosh, quite the revelation there. Who would have thought NW could be a right pita to work with/for/manage?! Erm... everyone! If they didn't see that coming and make allowances then it's just another indictment on their own judgement. Particularly since they'd already employed him for the few months preceding! Scraping the barrel now trying to defend the club. Hoyle employed him , to just get results, Nagel employed him when everything had not been put in place, lines of responsibilities were “ blurred”. How about you stop defending the club with your riddles about how Warnock was and just tell it as it is. Maybe then people can start to understand why you are so obsessed with defending consistent failings. |
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Post by runner76 on Oct 30, 2023 12:20:54 GMT 1
Reality is we are going to have to wait until the end of the January window to judge Kev, Cartwright and Moore…until then they are mainly dealing with the completely shite hand they were dealt when they started……. Does that include the hand that dealt them Warnock and Jepson? Yes. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 30, 2023 12:21:08 GMT 1
Edwards as CEO and Cartwright have been dreadful appointments and it’s all entirely down to big Kev. Edwards has never held a senior role at an EFL club and even in the states headed up their version of the football league but has never been club based. As for Cartwright, he hasn’t been involved in English football for at least 5 years (things change fast in the footballing world) and even then wasn’t exactly highly regarded. It’s hardly surprising that even with our pathetic budget, we’ve been unable to attract any players or unearth a hidden gem. Cartwight was at Stoke from 2012 - 2019. Premier League 2012/13 season - 13th 2013 / 14 season - 9th 2014 / 15 season - 9th 2015 / 16 season - 9th 2016 / 17 season - 13th 2017 / 18 season - 19th Relegated 2018 / 19 season - Championship 19th So whilst it didn't end great (things often don't). the first 5 seasons we're pretty good. He must have been responsible for the signing of some good players in that time. This. People love to rewrite history to suit their own argument. Success and failure are always obvious after the fact. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 30, 2023 12:27:08 GMT 1
I doubt anyone is happy with the job being done so far. Going into the season after escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth with a squad so much smaller was always going to be a tough ask. Sure, the only players any of us are likely to want back are Bilokapic (as one for the future) and Holmes. But that should have raised funds for better than we got.
4 in, but one of those is an insurance player in case Nicholls gets injured/suspended - the value of insurance is only noticed when you need to claim.
Edwards is looking like the player Stoke fans described,
Burgzorg is the epitome of a hit and miss player
For all that Holmes divided opinion I think you'd struggle - even amongst his biggest detractors - to find anyone who thinks Ben Wiles is anything other than a downgrade.
Was it Warnock or Cartwright? I don't know, but I suggest they were working together. The idea that one would ride roughshod over the other seems ludicrous.
Nonetheless we have made a series of gambles. Gambling on a weakened squad. Gambled on starting the season with a temporary manager. Gambled on changing a successful manager early. And whilst you sometimes have to be brave, it's only brave because the consequences for failure are bad.
This looks like a series of gambles we're looking to lose.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 30, 2023 13:11:44 GMT 1
Hoyle employed him , to just get results, Nagel employed him when everything had not been put in place, lines of responsibilities were “ blurred”. How about you stop defending the club with your riddles about how Warnock was and just tell it as it is. Maybe then people can start to understand why you are so obsessed with defending consistent failings. Tbf, and it's not often me and him see eye to eye, he's only been confirming that Colin was supposed to be here for the full season rather than just til they could find someone not up to the job, to take over. |
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Post by specialun on Oct 30, 2023 13:53:46 GMT 1
Think he needs to start to be judged after Jan / next summer
Prep for a window goes on months / longer, Cartwright was appointed start July
I’m not saying he didn’t have any influence before that (I have no idea if he did or not) or in the window but I hardly think judging him now is the right time
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Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 14:07:57 GMT 1
Think he needs to start to be judged after Jan / next summer Prep for a window goes on months / longer, Cartwright was appointed start July I’m not saying he didn’t have any influence before that (I have no idea if he did or not) or in the window but I hardly think judging him now is the right time It's not just transfers he's responsible for I don't think, plus surely he'd have known he was starting months before and should have ideally been ready to hit the ground running. |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Oct 30, 2023 14:19:41 GMT 1
Think he needs to start to be judged after Jan / next summer Prep for a window goes on months / longer, Cartwright was appointed start July I’m not saying he didn’t have any influence before that (I have no idea if he did or not) or in the window but I hardly think judging him now is the right time In most cases, I would agree with you and advocate for giving someone a bit longer to prove themselves. However, from the evidence we have so far, it is entirely possible to argue that Cartwright has underachieved (perhaps the word failed is a bit too strong). The first case of underachieving was the recruitment in the summer. Yes, there may have been budgetary constraints, perhaps it was difficult to recruit to Warnock's brief, he didn't have as long to plan for the window, but these people are paid a lot of money to get it right. For some utterly bizarre reason, we started the season with Ward, Harratt, and Hudlin as our forwards. Burgzorg has played there yes, but by his own admission is better as a wide forward. Moreover, anyone at the club pre-Nagle, would have told the new recruitment team that one position we really needed to recruit for was a ball playing midfielder. Before anyone suggests that Wiles and Rudoni have that skill set, I want to point out that they don't. We have no-one, in defence, midfield, or attack, who is able to slow the game down or up, keep and recycle possession, and play balls either behind the opposition defence or towards the wings. We have had Eiting and Mooy most recently with those abilities, the latter much better than the former. It's why we always panic and lose the ball. Beyond that, the right back we recruited is extremely poor. The second case of underachieving is a mix of the following: the recruitment of Darren Moore as head coach, the recruitment of Darren Moore as head coach with the squad so tremendously poor, and the timing of his appointment, so early in the season, as we were starting (perhaps) to get up to speed. For those two reasons, I am worried that giving him time is just giving him more time to underachieve, or, ultimately, to fail. |
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Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 14:23:06 GMT 1
Think he needs to start to be judged after Jan / next summer Prep for a window goes on months / longer, Cartwright was appointed start July I’m not saying he didn’t have any influence before that (I have no idea if he did or not) or in the window but I hardly think judging him now is the right time In most cases, I would agree with you and advocate for giving someone a bit longer to prove themselves. However, from the evidence we have so far, it is entirely possible to argue that Cartwright has underachieved (perhaps the word failed is a bit too strong). The first case of underachieving was the recruitment in the summer. Yes, there may have been budgetary constraints, perhaps it was difficult to recruit to Warnock's brief, he didn't have as long to plan for the window, but these people are paid a lot of money to get it right. For some utterly bizarre reason, we started the season with Ward, Harratt, and Hudlin as our forwards. Burgzorg has played there yes, but by his own admission is better as a wide forward. Moreover, anyone at the club pre-Nagle, would have told the new recruitment team that one position we really needed to recruit for was a ball playing midfielder. Before anyone suggests that Wiles and Rudoni have that skill set, I want to point out that they don't. We have no-one, in defence, midfield, or attack, who is able to slow the game down or up, keep and recycle possession, and play balls either behind the opposition defence or towards the wings. We have had Eiting and Mooy most recently with those abilities, the latter much better than the former. It's why we always panic and lose the ball. Beyond that, the right back we recruited is extremely poor. The second case of underachieving is a mix of the following: the recruitment of Darren Moore as head coach, the recruitment of Darren Moore as head coach with the squad so tremendously poor, and the timing of his appointment, so early in the season, as we were starting (perhaps) to get up to speed. Hard to disagree with that, there maybe some extenuating circumstances as you say but ultimately they have got everything wrong so far and you dont get time to make massive mistakes in the champ especially with the squad that we have. |
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