|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 14:34:34 GMT 1
Hoyle employed him , to just get results, Nagel employed him when everything had not been put in place, lines of responsibilities were “ blurred”. How about you stop defending the club with your riddles about how Warnock was and just tell it as it is. Maybe then people can start to understand why you are so obsessed with defending consistent failings. Why don’t you start posting something relevant instead of your random rants. Tell it how it is, Warnock will not be returning , ever. By the way your becoming boring with your rants, “ consistent failings” go on them name a few, other than just your irrational opinions. |
|
iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,197
|
Post by iangreaves on Oct 30, 2023 14:47:56 GMT 1
This is what maynard wrote on another thread:
If you need a constructive comment, Kevin made a big mistake in appointing Mark Cartwright to an absolutely vital role within the new regime.
Cartwright may have a decent reputation in the US but he was found out long ago in this country as a chancer who deals mainly within his agent 'affiliations' shall we say. He is the root cause of this rapid decline on the football side of things.
We needed a 'best in class' in this role, not unrealistic, instead we got a second hand car salesman with egg on his shirt. Kevin needs to be very careful about the advice he's getting from him.
You may question what is constructive about this ...its obvious- we need a new Sporting Director ASAP before we even talk about Darren Moore (his no1 pick)
|
|
|
|
Post by oneneilwarnock on Oct 30, 2023 14:52:40 GMT 1
How about you stop defending the club with your riddles about how Warnock was and just tell it as it is. Maybe then people can start to understand why you are so obsessed with defending consistent failings. Why don’t you start posting something relevant instead of your random rants. Tell it how it is, Warnock will not be returning , ever. By the way your becoming boring with your rants, “ consistent failings” go on them name a few, other than just your irrational opinions. Its you're just an FYI. Here's a list of failings argue them where possible. This is just 18 months worth and il of missed plenty. 1) Losing CC after playoff final by failing to show any intended ambition in the transfer market. 2) Selling O'Brien and Toffolo and neglecting to replace them with any sort of quality. 3) Hiring Schofield 4) Giving Bromby the right to then go and hire Fotheringham. 5) Letting Fotheringham sign his mate Kamberi, another window with a lack of squad investment. 6) A rare positive hiring Neil Warnock to resuce the club from certain relegation. 7) New ownership failing to recruit appropriately in the summer, the squad was weak last season its worse now. (you seem to want to blame Warnock for this which is fine but be useful to understand why) 8) Pushing Warnock out for a bloke that Sheffield Wednesday fans wanted gone before Peterborough folded in the playoffs. 9) Getting absolutely embarrassed by our nearest rivals because of the combination of the above. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,601
|
Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 14:56:29 GMT 1
If we wait until after the summer window we will be down by then and probably the die will be set for another relegation. Why not fiddle while Rome burns. So who made all the decisions about the squad then? No manager has the authority to sign players and only advises on who gets a contract or not. If the squad is not Cartwrights fault whose fault is it. He is paid to manage the squad and sign players and failed spectacularly at this. Giving him the January window seems to be a step too far but to leave him in place for the summer as well would be criminal. So you honestly think that Cartwright was responsible for the sale of Holmes 9 days after he arrived at the club and Boyle 10 days after he arrived at the club etc. You honestly think he was central to the sale of Bilo (one of the best young keepers in the EFL) and bringing Maxwell in 18 days after he arrived at the club. You honestly think that Cartwright decided to loan Rhodes out just before the window closed and Simpson out 23 days after arriving at the club. Warnock said that Simpson needed games and he hardly ever played Rhodes. But yeah it was Cartwright that decided to loan them both out. You honestly think he signed Burgzorg on loan after only been here 6 weeks? You honest think that he signed Ben Wiles and not the manager who's been managing teams in the Championship ever since the lad made his debut for Rotherham. You honestly think that 13 days after arriving at the club it was his decision to give Danny Ward a 2 year contact and not the decision of a manager that's had him at 3 clubs, including this one. And 1 month and 1 day after arriving at the club he was the one to bring Josh Ruffles back to the club and not the guy that had pretty much selected him in every game he'd managed at the end of the previous season. We played our first league game 1 month and 2 days after Cartwright arrive and the Transfer window closed less than 2 months after he arrived. And your trying to say that the players that left, those we resigned and those we signed are Cartwrights and that the state of the squad is Cartwrights fault....Wow I do think he was responsible it is his job he is the one who has the say on who goes and who stays. Why did he let so many go, I know it is all down to Warnock, if so Cartwright wants sacking for letting someone else do his job without checking on the status of the squad. He let so many players go and could not find replacements. Gave our old past it forward another contract and let the other old one go out on loan and thought that we would be OK. By your summary he arrived did nothing and none of it was down to him, what is he responsible for? He should be sacked for doing nothing. |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 30, 2023 15:31:41 GMT 1
So you honestly think that Cartwright was responsible for the sale of Holmes 9 days after he arrived at the club and Boyle 10 days after he arrived at the club etc. You honestly think he was central to the sale of Bilo (one of the best young keepers in the EFL) and bringing Maxwell in 18 days after he arrived at the club. You honestly think that Cartwright decided to loan Rhodes out just before the window closed and Simpson out 23 days after arriving at the club. Warnock said that Simpson needed games and he hardly ever played Rhodes. But yeah it was Cartwright that decided to loan them both out. You honestly think he signed Burgzorg on loan after only been here 6 weeks? You honest think that he signed Ben Wiles and not the manager who's been managing teams in the Championship ever since the lad made his debut for Rotherham. You honestly think that 13 days after arriving at the club it was his decision to give Danny Ward a 2 year contact and not the decision of a manager that's had him at 3 clubs, including this one. And 1 month and 1 day after arriving at the club he was the one to bring Josh Ruffles back to the club and not the guy that had pretty much selected him in every game he'd managed at the end of the previous season. We played our first league game 1 month and 2 days after Cartwright arrive and the Transfer window closed less than 2 months after he arrived. And your trying to say that the players that left, those we resigned and those we signed are Cartwrights and that the state of the squad is Cartwrights fault....Wow I do think he was responsible it is his job he is the one who has the say on who goes and who stays. Why did he let so many go, I know it is all down to Warnock, if so Cartwright wants sacking for letting someone else do his job without checking on the status of the squad. He let so many players go and could not find replacements. Gave our old past it forward another contract and let the other old one go out on loan and thought that we would be OK. By your summary he arrived did nothing and none of it was down to him, what is he responsible for? He should be sacked for doing nothing. Once you are in post everything from when you walk in at 9am is your responsibility.He would already know, from interviews/appointment discussions and pre-entry discussions what was'on the desk'. If he's walked through the door and been totally oblivious to the immediate priorities, i'd be astounded. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,601
|
Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 15:47:46 GMT 1
I do think he was responsible it is his job he is the one who has the say on who goes and who stays. Why did he let so many go, I know it is all down to Warnock, if so Cartwright wants sacking for letting someone else do his job without checking on the status of the squad. He let so many players go and could not find replacements. Gave our old past it forward another contract and let the other old one go out on loan and thought that we would be OK. By your summary he arrived did nothing and none of it was down to him, what is he responsible for? He should be sacked for doing nothing. Once you are in post everything from when you walk in at 9am is your responsibility.He would already know, from interviews/appointment discussions and pre-entry discussions what was'on the desk'. If he's walked through the door and been totally oblivious to the immediate priorities, i'd be astounded. I agree, but some people are keener to support the owner/management than looking where the club is heading. |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Oct 30, 2023 15:54:28 GMT 1
This is what maynard wrote on another thread: If you need a constructive comment, Kevin made a big mistake in appointing Mark Cartwright to an absolutely vital role within the new regime. Cartwright may have a decent reputation in the US but he was found out long ago in this country as a chancer who deals mainly within his agent 'affiliations' shall we say. He is the root cause of this rapid decline on the football side of things. We needed a 'best in class' in this role, not unrealistic, instead we got a second hand car salesman with egg on his shirt. Kevin needs to be very careful about the advice he's getting from him. You may question what is constructive about this ...its obvious- we need a new Sporting Director ASAP before we even talk about Darren Moore (his no1 pick) The difficulty being that pretty much ALL established Sporting Directors work where possible with the people they have established rapport and trust with. |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 30, 2023 16:02:04 GMT 1
Once you are in post everything from when you walk in at 9am is your responsibility.He would already know, from interviews/appointment discussions and pre-entry discussions what was'on the desk'. If he's walked through the door and been totally oblivious to the immediate priorities, i'd be astounded. I agree, but some people are keener to support the owner/management than looking where the club is heading. do you mean Cartwright ?...i'm not sure what you mean... |
|
wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,338
|
Post by wigster on Oct 30, 2023 16:03:01 GMT 1
Quite simple for me - the interviews I'ce seen with Cartright, what the Stoke forum said about him, and what MaynardBlue said about him (and Maynard isn't always as vitriolic) all point to the fact that he shouldn't be within 100 miles of our club.
Can someone tell me one good thing he seems to have done ?
|
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,601
|
Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 16:07:18 GMT 1
I agree, but some people are keener to support the owner/management than looking where the club is heading. do you mean Cartwright ?...i'm not sure what you mean... I mean well known posters who have a one track mentality, to support the owner/management not the team or in what direction the club is going. |
|
|
|
Post by bells ringing :) on Oct 30, 2023 16:08:55 GMT 1
Quite simple for me - the interviews I'ce seen with Cartright, what the Stoke forum said about him, and what MaynardBlue said about him (and Maynard isn't always as vitriolic) all point to the fact that he shouldn't be within 100 miles of our club. Can someone tell me one good thing he seems to have done ? He got Darren Moore in, o wait hang on nope i can't think of anything. If Darren Moore was the first choice, as stated by Maynard, then it either shows the lack of ambition behind the supposed 3 year plan to get to the prem or the lack of funding to attract a proper manager.
Moores states are screwed a lot by last season, where he had the biggest budget in the league and still got pipped by ipswich and plymouth, then almost fucked it right up in the play offs.
Nagle says he has ambition and the cash to back it up, yet so far non of this ambition has been shown.
Cartwright supposdly has lots of contacts within the game, well i wait to see thos contacts equal into progression on the pitch for us.
|
|
|
|
Post by bells ringing :) on Oct 30, 2023 16:15:26 GMT 1
O and also i do feel if Cartwright is a fraud/ chancer whatever , then it will become very apparent to those within the club. People who are not fit for their role cannot and don't hide it for long from those higher up the food chain.
Cartwright will know the Moore appointment , has to work and he will take the blame if it doesn't , its part of his role at the club. He will also be judged on the player recuritment side of it. His reputation within the game is at stake, there are lots of guys in the role he is in, that have come and gone and haven't re appeared elsewhere of any note or at all. The budget cartwright/ Moore have to work with , defo will help to attract players if its a good one going forward, if it isn't then we will struggle as per to attract the top level talent or we will have to take chances and hope as we have in the past.
|
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 16:51:18 GMT 1
Why don’t you start posting something relevant instead of your random rants. Tell it how it is, Warnock will not be returning , ever. By the way your becoming boring with your rants, “ consistent failings” go on them name a few, other than just your irrational opinions. Its you're just an FYI. Here's a list of failings argue them where possible. This is just 18 months worth and il of missed plenty. 1) Losing CC after playoff final by failing to show any intended ambition in the transfer market. 2) Selling O'Brien and Toffolo and neglecting to replace them with any sort of quality. 3) Hiring Schofield 4) Giving Bromby the right to then go and hire Fotheringham. 5) Letting Fotheringham sign his mate Kamberi, another window with a lack of squad investment. 6) A rare positive hiring Neil Warnock to resuce the club from certain relegation. 7) New ownership failing to recruit appropriately in the summer, the squad was weak last season its worse now. (you seem to want to blame Warnock for this which is fine but be useful to understand why) 8) Pushing Warnock out for a bloke that Sheffield Wednesday fans wanted gone before Peterborough folded in the playoffs. 9) Getting absolutely embarrassed by our nearest rivals because of the combination of the above. CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. |
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 16:55:34 GMT 1
Its you're just an FYI. Here's a list of failings argue them where possible. This is just 18 months worth and il of missed plenty. 1) Losing CC after playoff final by failing to show any intended ambition in the transfer market. 2) Selling O'Brien and Toffolo and neglecting to replace them with any sort of quality. 3) Hiring Schofield 4) Giving Bromby the right to then go and hire Fotheringham. 5) Letting Fotheringham sign his mate Kamberi, another window with a lack of squad investment. 6) A rare positive hiring Neil Warnock to resuce the club from certain relegation. 7) New ownership failing to recruit appropriately in the summer, the squad was weak last season its worse now. (you seem to want to blame Warnock for this which is fine but be useful to understand why) 8) Pushing Warnock out for a bloke that Sheffield Wednesday fans wanted gone before Peterborough folded in the playoffs. 9) Getting absolutely embarrassed by our nearest rivals because of the combination of the above. CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. Yeah tricky market in the summer, may as well not buy anyone and accept relegation. Excellent strategy. |
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 17:03:16 GMT 1
CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. Yeah tricky market in the summer, may as well not buy anyone and accept relegation. Excellent strategy. Do you know who we tried to sign and why we failed to get any major signing , Wiles excepted, I don’t and neither do you, perhaps the club would have been better employing your skill set . If the required players don’t want to come what are the club supposed to do? |
|
|
|
Post by Stiggy on Oct 30, 2023 17:03:30 GMT 1
No point going on and on about it.
Long and short of it is the club sacked the only man who would've seen us safe this season with this group of players. I knew it and so did pretty everyone else..God only knows what the club were thinking, but we have to live with it now.
Going for Moore is a classic case of getting the right man in at the wrong time and it will likely lead to disastrous consequences.
No point sacking him in now as in reality who else is going to come in mold this pile of turd we call a squad?
Only thing we can do as fans is to try and get behind the team and pray for the mother of all miracles.
|
|
iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,197
|
Post by iangreaves on Oct 30, 2023 17:12:04 GMT 1
Its you're just an FYI. Here's a list of failings argue them where possible. This is just 18 months worth and il of missed plenty. 1) Losing CC after playoff final by failing to show any intended ambition in the transfer market. 2) Selling O'Brien and Toffolo and neglecting to replace them with any sort of quality. 3) Hiring Schofield 4) Giving Bromby the right to then go and hire Fotheringham. 5) Letting Fotheringham sign his mate Kamberi, another window with a lack of squad investment. 6) A rare positive hiring Neil Warnock to resuce the club from certain relegation. 7) New ownership failing to recruit appropriately in the summer, the squad was weak last season its worse now. (you seem to want to blame Warnock for this which is fine but be useful to understand why) 8) Pushing Warnock out for a bloke that Sheffield Wednesday fans wanted gone before Peterborough folded in the playoffs. 9) Getting absolutely embarrassed by our nearest rivals because of the combination of the above. CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. The complete breakdown of summer transfer activity in the Championship is listed at the link below. I don't see other clubs struggling like us. And, of course, we had a very weak squad to begin with, only saved by a bloke who came in and worked absolute miracles, a bloke who you seem determined to smear. www.skysports.com/football/news/11065/12878368/transfer-news-summer-transfer-window-2023-championship-ins-and-outs |
|
|
|
Post by townrwe on Oct 30, 2023 17:12:08 GMT 1
No point going on and on about it. Long and short of it is the club sacked the only man who would've seen us safe this season with this group of players. I knew it and so did pretty everyone else..God only knows what the club were thinking, but we have to live with it now. Going for Moore is a classic case of getting the right man in at the wrong time and it will likely lead to disastrous consequences. No point sacking him in now as in reality who else is going to come in mold this pile of turd we call a squad? Only thing we can do as fans is to try and get behind the team and pray for the mother of all miracles. Only thing moore is any good at is making teams not quite as good as they should be....... .Thats backed up by the stats. |
|
Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,958
|
Post by Sparrow on Oct 30, 2023 17:16:41 GMT 1
So you honestly think that Cartwright was responsible for the sale of Holmes 9 days after he arrived at the club and Boyle 10 days after he arrived at the club etc. You honestly think he was central to the sale of Bilo (one of the best young keepers in the EFL) and bringing Maxwell in 18 days after he arrived at the club. You honestly think that Cartwright decided to loan Rhodes out just before the window closed and Simpson out 23 days after arriving at the club. Warnock said that Simpson needed games and he hardly ever played Rhodes. But yeah it was Cartwright that decided to loan them both out. You honestly think he signed Burgzorg on loan after only been here 6 weeks? You honest think that he signed Ben Wiles and not the manager who's been managing teams in the Championship ever since the lad made his debut for Rotherham. You honestly think that 13 days after arriving at the club it was his decision to give Danny Ward a 2 year contact and not the decision of a manager that's had him at 3 clubs, including this one. And 1 month and 1 day after arriving at the club he was the one to bring Josh Ruffles back to the club and not the guy that had pretty much selected him in every game he'd managed at the end of the previous season. We played our first league game 1 month and 2 days after Cartwright arrive and the Transfer window closed less than 2 months after he arrived. And your trying to say that the players that left, those we resigned and those we signed are Cartwrights and that the state of the squad is Cartwrights fault....Wow I do think he was responsible it is his job he is the one who has the say on who goes and who stays. Why did he let so many go, I know it is all down to Warnock, if so Cartwright wants sacking for letting someone else do his job without checking on the status of the squad. He let so many players go and could not find replacements. Gave our old past it forward another contract and let the other old one go out on loan and thought that we would be OK. By your summary he arrived did nothing and none of it was down to him, what is he responsible for? He should be sacked for doing nothing. Considering he arrived almost 3 weeks into the summer transfer window I would imagine that when he arrived his remit was to work towards the January and next summer windows, whilst having input in the current window. With Warnock and the recruitment team already at the club taking the lead with this summers window. In the first 20 seconds of his fist interview he says that Warnock told him that Josh Ruffles contract needed completing and that the agent was in the office waiting to complete the deal. From the 12th minute onwards he stats talking about recruitment. at 13:45 he talks about NW working really hard and how he is involved in signings....Well worth listening to again I would suggest. I fully appreciate that the summer transfer window was shit, but I'm not sure that's totally down to Cartwright. I fully appreciate that we were stupid to get rid of Warnock and thought it was a bad move at the time, but I can appreciate why they decided to do it and go for Moore. I may not agree, but I can understand it. Of course I could be completely wrong and it may well be that all the summer transfer activity in and out may have been down to Cartwright.....But then those blaming Cartwright could equally be wrong. Guess none of us know....Unless your ITK, which I'm not |
|
|
|
Post by Ladaphosen on Oct 30, 2023 17:21:22 GMT 1
Its you're just an FYI. Here's a list of failings argue them where possible. This is just 18 months worth and il of missed plenty. 1) Losing CC after playoff final by failing to show any intended ambition in the transfer market. 2) Selling O'Brien and Toffolo and neglecting to replace them with any sort of quality. 3) Hiring Schofield 4) Giving Bromby the right to then go and hire Fotheringham. 5) Letting Fotheringham sign his mate Kamberi, another window with a lack of squad investment. 6) A rare positive hiring Neil Warnock to resuce the club from certain relegation. 7) New ownership failing to recruit appropriately in the summer, the squad was weak last season its worse now. (you seem to want to blame Warnock for this which is fine but be useful to understand why) 8) Pushing Warnock out for a bloke that Sheffield Wednesday fans wanted gone before Peterborough folded in the playoffs. 9) Getting absolutely embarrassed by our nearest rivals because of the combination of the above. CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo
Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. Big Rudoni fan, but neither of those two are near LOBs level or play in Toffs position... |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Oct 30, 2023 17:34:27 GMT 1
Its you're just an FYI. Here's a list of failings argue them where possible. This is just 18 months worth and il of missed plenty. 1) Losing CC after playoff final by failing to show any intended ambition in the transfer market. 2) Selling O'Brien and Toffolo and neglecting to replace them with any sort of quality. 3) Hiring Schofield 4) Giving Bromby the right to then go and hire Fotheringham. 5) Letting Fotheringham sign his mate Kamberi, another window with a lack of squad investment. 6) A rare positive hiring Neil Warnock to resuce the club from certain relegation. 7) New ownership failing to recruit appropriately in the summer, the squad was weak last season its worse now. (you seem to want to blame Warnock for this which is fine but be useful to understand why) 8) Pushing Warnock out for a bloke that Sheffield Wednesday fans wanted gone before Peterborough folded in the playoffs. 9) Getting absolutely embarrassed by our nearest rivals because of the combination of the above. CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. By way of balance (and it is meant to be balance): CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos - Was this before or after he released that he wouldn't be supported in the transfer market? If not why did he leave so close to the start of the season? If you have a coach who is achieving surely logic would suggest you look to retain and support him ? On the basis he is more likely to continue to deliver and the overall position/value of the club is likely to be enhanced. Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo - Neither is a left back or a similar player to O'Brien. What about the significant lack of a striker?Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone - fair point. Was Bromby (who made some good calls the previous summer window) tied by budget in making those decisions? Were the choices expedient or part of a wider strategy? Kambieri, again Bromby - an irrelevance, panic signing as underwritten by FotheringhamWarnock, positive but short term - Agreed but turned round a seemingly hopeless positionAll the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. - A owner who stopped talking to the fans, who wasn't prepared to accept his mistakes but to be fair realised the situation and persuaded Warnock out of retirement. Had he made better calls he could have recouped much of the considerable investment he made in Town, and been considered the hero we all wanted him to be.Warnock sacked himself - a bold statement, but I can understand what is meant - could it have been avoided though? Moore has a good track record ( not being evidenced in the past 5 games in charge of Town - irrespective of circumstances his footballing choices have been baffling at best), supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum - I take no offence at being labelled a plank but would like to think I try and contribute to a reasoned debate (as I am here)So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it - that isn't the real issue, just a thin end of a very significant wedge. Most anticipated what we got. Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club _ I take the point re loans (although some may have looked at us and considered if their talent would benefit/develop from playing with our current squad). As for signings Warnock had targets that we couldn't afford. That might be the case but the budget agreed for this season was apparently very low. This is something excused by restrictions on the club, but restrictions that have never been fully explained (Steven Chicken debunked the FFP risk). There might be a very good reason but the lack of understanding breeds conjecture and people coming to their own conclusions.The real sadness is that all we are doing is arguing/debating among ourselves. Whatever the reasons we are in a bad spot and this has been some considerable time in the making. Something fundamental needs to change, but right now that doesn't seem to have been grasped by those who can actually influence the outcome. |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Oct 30, 2023 17:43:23 GMT 1
I do think he was responsible it is his job he is the one who has the say on who goes and who stays. Why did he let so many go, I know it is all down to Warnock, if so Cartwright wants sacking for letting someone else do his job without checking on the status of the squad. He let so many players go and could not find replacements. Gave our old past it forward another contract and let the other old one go out on loan and thought that we would be OK. By your summary he arrived did nothing and none of it was down to him, what is he responsible for? He should be sacked for doing nothing. Considering he arrived almost 3 weeks into the summer transfer window I would imagine that when he arrived his remit was to work towards the January and next summer windows, whilst having input in the current window. With Warnock and the recruitment team already at the club taking the lead with this summers window. In the first 20 seconds of his fist interview he says that Warnock told him that Josh Ruffles contract needed completing and that the agent was in the office waiting to complete the deal. From the 12th minute onwards he stats talking about recruitment. at 13:45 he talks about NW working really hard and how he is involved in signings....Well worth listening to again I would suggest. I fully appreciate that the summer transfer window was shit, but I'm not sure that's totally down to Cartwright. I fully appreciate that we were stupid to get rid of Warnock and thought it was a bad move at the time, but I can appreciate why they decided to do it and go for Moore. I may not agree, but I can understand it. Of course I could be completely wrong and it may well be that all the summer transfer activity in and out may have been down to Cartwright.....But then those blaming Cartwright could equally be wrong. Guess none of us know....Unless your ITK, which I'm not The question that Cartwright needs to answer is around the recruitment of DM (why he was the outstanding candidate) and if, given the obvious weaknesses in the squad, wasn't it better to retain NW (irrespective of any working difficulties) until we had some stability in the Championship. The question he also should be now considering is; Are DM's tactics making any sense, even given the resources available. |
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 17:58:10 GMT 1
CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. By way of balance (and it is meant to be balance): CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos - Was this before or after he released that he wouldn't be supported in the transfer market? If not why did he leave so close to the start of the season? If you have a coach who is achieving surely logic would suggest you look to retain and support him ? On the basis he is more likely to continue to deliver and the overall position/value of the club is likely to be enhanced. Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo - Neither is a left back or a similar player to O'Brien. What about the significant lack of a striker?Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone - fair point. Was Bromby (who made some good calls the previous summer window) tied by budget in making those decisions? Were the choices expedient or part of a wider strategy? Kambieri, again Bromby - an irrelevance, panic signing as underwritten by FotheringhamWarnock, positive but short term - Agreed but turned round a seemingly hopeless positionAll the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. - A owner who stopped talking to the fans, who wasn't prepared to accept his mistakes but to be fair realised the situation and persuaded Warnock out of retirement. Had he made better calls he could have recouped much of the considerable investment he made in Town, and been considered the hero we all wanted him to be.Warnock sacked himself - a bold statement, but I can understand what is meant - could it have been avoided though? Moore has a good track record ( not being evidenced in the past 5 games in charge of Town - irrespective of circumstances his footballing choices have been baffling at best), supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum - I take no offence at being labelled a plank but would like to think I try and contribute to a reasoned debate (as I am here)So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it - that isn't the real issue, just a thin end of a very significant wedge. Most anticipated what we got. Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club _ I take the point re loans (although some may have looked at us and considered if their talent would benefit/develop from playing with our current squad). As for signings Warnock had targets that we couldn't afford. That might be the case but the budget agreed for this season was apparently very low. This is something excused by restrictions on the club, but restrictions that have never been fully explained (Steven Chicken debunked the FFP risk). There might be a very good reason but the lack of understanding breeds conjecture and people coming to their own conclusions.The real sadness is that all we are doing is arguing/debating among ourselves. Whatever the reasons we are in a bad spot and this has been some considerable time in the making. Something fundamental needs to change, but right now that doesn't seem to have been grasped by those who can actually influence the outcome. Good post and I see we are close on most points, Hoyle sold the club to PH, didn’t end well and he came back reluctantly, throwing more money with the possibility of greater returns, don’t realy see that as a reasonable decision , he wanted rid , likely loosing over £30 million in the process. The transfer process somehow became under Warnocks sphere of influence , it didn’t and hasn’t ended well. Personally I believed that the issues that arose could have been tolerated, certain people controlled and the status quo maintained obviously this didn’t happen. I didn’t say all posters on here are planks but their are a considerable number( and I do include) myself at times, knee jerk reactions , however there are people on here for whatever reason have disliked Moore from day one because we didn’t employ their choice, and this is happening more and more with every choice the club makes , let’s give it some time and support the players , but not Edwards! |
|
|
|
Post by bells ringing :) on Oct 30, 2023 18:07:49 GMT 1
By way of balance (and it is meant to be balance): CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos - Was this before or after he released that he wouldn't be supported in the transfer market? If not why did he leave so close to the start of the season? If you have a coach who is achieving surely logic would suggest you look to retain and support him ? On the basis he is more likely to continue to deliver and the overall position/value of the club is likely to be enhanced. Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo - Neither is a left back or a similar player to O'Brien. What about the significant lack of a striker?Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone - fair point. Was Bromby (who made some good calls the previous summer window) tied by budget in making those decisions? Were the choices expedient or part of a wider strategy? Kambieri, again Bromby - an irrelevance, panic signing as underwritten by FotheringhamWarnock, positive but short term - Agreed but turned round a seemingly hopeless positionAll the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. - A owner who stopped talking to the fans, who wasn't prepared to accept his mistakes but to be fair realised the situation and persuaded Warnock out of retirement. Had he made better calls he could have recouped much of the considerable investment he made in Town, and been considered the hero we all wanted him to be.Warnock sacked himself - a bold statement, but I can understand what is meant - could it have been avoided though? Moore has a good track record ( not being evidenced in the past 5 games in charge of Town - irrespective of circumstances his footballing choices have been baffling at best), supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum - I take no offence at being labelled a plank but would like to think I try and contribute to a reasoned debate (as I am here)So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it - that isn't the real issue, just a thin end of a very significant wedge. Most anticipated what we got. Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club _ I take the point re loans (although some may have looked at us and considered if their talent would benefit/develop from playing with our current squad). As for signings Warnock had targets that we couldn't afford. That might be the case but the budget agreed for this season was apparently very low. This is something excused by restrictions on the club, but restrictions that have never been fully explained (Steven Chicken debunked the FFP risk). There might be a very good reason but the lack of understanding breeds conjecture and people coming to their own conclusions.The real sadness is that all we are doing is arguing/debating among ourselves. Whatever the reasons we are in a bad spot and this has been some considerable time in the making. Something fundamental needs to change, but right now that doesn't seem to have been grasped by those who can actually influence the outcome. Good post and I see we are close on most points, Hoyle sold the club to PH, didn’t end well and he came back reluctantly, throwing more money with the possibility of greater returns, don’t realy see that as a reasonable decision , he wanted rid , likely loosing over £30 million in the process. The transfer process somehow became under Warnocks sphere of influence , it didn’t and hasn’t ended well. Personally I believed that the issues that arose could have been tolerated, certain people controlled and the status quo maintained obviously this didn’t happen. I didn’t say all posters on here are planks but their are a considerable number( and I do include) myself at times, knee jerk reactions , however there are people on here for whatever reason have disliked Moore from day one because we didn’t employ their choice, and this is happening more and more with every choice the club makes , let’s give it some time and support the players , but not Edwards! May i ask Portugal , what is your opinnion on Cartwright , is he as toxic as other psoters have made out or toxic at all for that matter mate? |
|
|
|
Post by richhtfc on Oct 30, 2023 18:10:56 GMT 1
CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo
Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone Kambieri, again Bromby Warnock, positive but short term . All the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. Warnock sacked himself, Moore has a good track record , supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum. So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it . Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club. Big Rudoni fan, but neither of those two are near LOBs level or play in Toffs position... Think Rudoni is starting to prove that he has a higher ceiling than LOB personally. Kasumu has his moments but apart from the injury issues he looks a bit out of his depth I think. |
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Oct 30, 2023 18:19:49 GMT 1
Yeah tricky market in the summer, may as well not buy anyone and accept relegation. Excellent strategy. Do you know who we tried to sign and why we failed to get any major signing , Wiles excepted, I don’t and neither do you, perhaps the club would have been better employing your skill set . If the required players don’t want to come what are the club supposed to do?Find ones that do? |
|
Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,958
|
Post by Sparrow on Oct 30, 2023 18:21:07 GMT 1
[/quote]By way of balance (and it is meant to be balance): CC left because he had a better offer from Olympiacos - Was this before or after he released that he wouldn't be supported in the transfer market? If not why did he leave so close to the start of the season? If you have a coach who is achieving surely logic would suggest you look to retain and support him ? On the basis he is more likely to continue to deliver and the overall position/value of the club is likely to be enhanced. Rudoni was bought plus Kasumo - Neither is a left back or a similar player to O'Brien. What about the significant lack of a striker?Schofield, down to Bromby, same for Fotheringham , all three gone - fair point. Was Bromby (who made some good calls the previous summer window) tied by budget in making those decisions? Were the choices expedient or part of a wider strategy? Kambieri, again Bromby - an irrelevance, panic signing as underwritten by FotheringhamWarnock, positive but short term - Agreed but turned round a seemingly hopeless positionAll the above were down to an owner , looking to sell and certainly not looking to expend any more of HIS money. - A owner who stopped talking to the fans, who wasn't prepared to accept his mistakes but to be fair realised the situation and persuaded Warnock out of retirement. Had he made better calls he could have recouped much of the considerable investment he made in Town, and been considered the hero we all wanted him to be.Warnock sacked himself - a bold statement, but I can understand what is meant - could it have been avoided though? Moore has a good track record ( not being evidenced in the past 5 games in charge of Town - irrespective of circumstances his footballing choices have been baffling at best), supporters of Weds on their forum are a daft as most on here, why should anyone listen to planks of a forum - I take no offence at being labelled a plank but would like to think I try and contribute to a reasoned debate (as I am here)So we got beat by a team that cost over a £100 million, get over it - that isn't the real issue, just a thin end of a very significant wedge. Most anticipated what we got. Most clubs suffered with recruitment in the summer , high cost and very little value, difficult recruiting players when they don’t want to come or their clubs won’t loan to a Warnock club _ I take the point re loans (although some may have looked at us and considered if their talent would benefit/develop from playing with our current squad). As for signings Warnock had targets that we couldn't afford. That might be the case but the budget agreed for this season was apparently very low. This is something excused by restrictions on the club, but restrictions that have never been fully explained (Steven Chicken debunked the FFP risk). There might be a very good reason but the lack of understanding breeds conjecture and people coming to their own conclusions.[/b] The real sadness is that all we are doing is arguing/debating among ourselves. Whatever the reasons we are in a bad spot and this has been some considerable time in the making. Something fundamental needs to change, but right now that doesn't seem to have been grasped by those who can actually influence the outcome. [/quote] The below is taken from the EFL Governance & Regulations website www.efl.com/governance/regulations/16.16 onwards Future Financial Information "By 31 March (Championship Clubs) and 30 April (League One and League Two Clubs), in each Season, each Club shall submit to The League in respect of itself (or if the Club considers it appropriate or The League so requests in respect of the Group of which it is a member) future financial information (‘Future Financial Information’) comprising: In respect of any Championship Club, projected profit and loss accounts, cash flow, balance sheets and relevant explanatory notes commencing from its accounting reference date or, if it has submitted interim accounts pursuant to Regulation 16.11, from the date to which those interim accounts were prepared and expiring on the next accounting reference date after the end of the following Season. The projected profit and loss accounts, cash flow and balance sheets shall be prepared at a maximum of quarterly intervals; Guidance Forecasts should ideally be prepared on a month by month basis. Whilst Clubs can submit quarterly forecasts, the EFL may require more detailed monthly forecast where it is unable to prepare an accurate assessment of cash requirements in any particular quarter." And there's a few other bits in there that look like they might have been applied to us for this year. 16.20, 16.21 etc So, and I'm guessing here. DH (Or maybe Baldwin as DH has stepped back from the day to day running of the club) submitted the initial budget for the 31st March. That had to be stuck to for the Q1 (April, May & June). KN took official control of the club on 22nd June. My guess is he decided to stick with the budget for Q2, due to timelines (July, August & September). So for the Transfer Window we were operating under the budgets that DH set. We are now in Q3 (October, November & December). Q4 is January, February & March. So hopefully a new budget can be submitted by KN for Q4 in time for the January Transfer window As I say, that is all me guessing and trying to interpret what's written in the EFL Governance & Regulations. Hopefully KN can submit his own budget / future financial information in time for the January window and we can see some much needed investment. Here's hoping |
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 30, 2023 18:25:43 GMT 1
Good post and I see we are close on most points, Hoyle sold the club to PH, didn’t end well and he came back reluctantly, throwing more money with the possibility of greater returns, don’t realy see that as a reasonable decision , he wanted rid , likely loosing over £30 million in the process. The transfer process somehow became under Warnocks sphere of influence , it didn’t and hasn’t ended well. Personally I believed that the issues that arose could have been tolerated, certain people controlled and the status quo maintained obviously this didn’t happen. I didn’t say all posters on here are planks but their are a considerable number( and I do include) myself at times, knee jerk reactions , however there are people on here for whatever reason have disliked Moore from day one because we didn’t employ their choice, and this is happening more and more with every choice the club makes , let’s give it some time and support the players , but not Edwards! May i ask Portugal , what is your opinnion on Cartwright , is he as toxic as other psoters have made out or toxic at all for that matter mate? My contacts are not within Town, all I have been told is he has very good contacts within the game, picked some good players up for Stoke, didn’t get on with Hughes, due to Hughes circumventing the process, but I will in the next couple of weeks try and get some info re his personality and if he is ego driven. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,601
|
Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 18:31:00 GMT 1
I do think he was responsible it is his job he is the one who has the say on who goes and who stays. Why did he let so many go, I know it is all down to Warnock, if so Cartwright wants sacking for letting someone else do his job without checking on the status of the squad. He let so many players go and could not find replacements. Gave our old past it forward another contract and let the other old one go out on loan and thought that we would be OK. By your summary he arrived did nothing and none of it was down to him, what is he responsible for? He should be sacked for doing nothing. Considering he arrived almost 3 weeks into the summer transfer window I would imagine that when he arrived his remit was to work towards the January and next summer windows, whilst having input in the current window. With Warnock and the recruitment team already at the club taking the lead with this summers window. In the first 20 seconds of his fist interview he says that Warnock told him that Josh Ruffles contract needed completing and that the agent was in the office waiting to complete the deal. From the 12th minute onwards he stats talking about recruitment. at 13:45 he talks about NW working really hard and how he is involved in signings....Well worth listening to again I would suggest. I fully appreciate that the summer transfer window was shit, but I'm not sure that's totally down to Cartwright. I fully appreciate that we were stupid to get rid of Warnock and thought it was a bad move at the time, but I can appreciate why they decided to do it and go for Moore. I may not agree, but I can understand it. Of course I could be completely wrong and it may well be that all the summer transfer activity in and out may have been down to Cartwright.....But then those blaming Cartwright could equally be wrong. Guess none of us know....Unless your ITK, which I'm not The owner employs someone to manage the squad but the terrible summer is down to someone else. I can't see any point in discussing this with someone who is so desperate to find some excuse to defend the owner / management. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,601
|
Post by goodbet on Oct 30, 2023 18:36:34 GMT 1
Yeah tricky market in the summer, may as well not buy anyone and accept relegation. Excellent strategy. Do you know who we tried to sign and why we failed to get any major signing , Wiles excepted, I don’t and neither do you, perhaps the club would have been better employing your skill set . If the required players don’t want to come what are the club supposed to do? Just give up as this seems to be the answer that Town came up with. Maybe they should have thought about who they released if they were not up to signing players. A complete cluster F*@& |
|
