ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,889
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Post by ambryboy on Dec 20, 2023 15:28:08 GMT 1
I'm afraid that Moore's time may be almost up. I think the suits would have liked to have kept him for a while longer and give him a chance with January signings, but when the fanbase seems to be so vehemently against the manager there will be only one result. DM will never get that goodwill from a section of fans whatever he does now. He seems to have really gone into his shell after much personal criticism and that is a shame for someone who appears to be a decent bloke. I've heard plenty about there being dissension in the dressing room, but the players have really played for him and put a shift in over the last few games even if the football is woeful and the results have not been forthcoming. If we are going to decide who is culpable here, it can only be the people who chose the manager. Berry and Cartwright will have to take a hit when Moore goes and they'll probably get one more chance to put it right. They can partly rectify the situation with signings in January... who knows how this will turn out. Who is Berry?  |
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Post by davethesprout on Dec 20, 2023 15:37:52 GMT 1
2 wins in a third of a season would see most managers brushing up their CV. Not be many buying the half season tickets on offer this Christmas tbh ! |
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Post by kennyk2 on Dec 20, 2023 15:44:19 GMT 1
I'm afraid that Moore's time may be almost up. I think the suits would have liked to have kept him for a while longer and give him a chance with January signings, but when the fanbase seems to be so vehemently against the manager there will be only one result. DM will never get that goodwill from a section of fans whatever he does now. He seems to have really gone into his shell after much personal criticism and that is a shame for someone who appears to be a decent bloke. I've heard plenty about there being dissension in the dressing room, but the players have really played for him and put a shift in over the last few games even if the football is woeful and the results have not been forthcoming. If we are going to decide who is culpable here, it can only be the people who chose the manager. Berry and Cartwright will have to take a hit when Moore goes and they'll probably get one more chance to put it right. They can partly rectify the situation with signings in January... who knows how this will turn out. Who is Berry? Edwards. |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Dec 20, 2023 15:45:38 GMT 1
Moores job is safe till at least mid Feb, there is no immediate threat to his job, subject to the usual caveats that no managers job is secure. Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. |
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Post by royrace on Dec 20, 2023 16:05:05 GMT 1
And further confirmation, for those who needed it, that CHT is a WUM clogging up the board pretending to be in the know. |
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Post by townarentbest on Dec 20, 2023 16:07:14 GMT 1
Yes, but football managers (typically) lose their job in less than 2 years, & don’t have that protection, so I don’t know why you were insisting that DM is sitting on 3 years of guaranteed pay when that’s obviously not close to the truth and dumping him wouldn’t be a massive financial burden now compared to doing the same in 2 years time 🤷♂️ Do you know the exact terms of Moores contract ? I’d guess you don’t . If a club insisted on notice periods, then it’s highly likely the manager would also insist on notice periods , which is almost a given, this would mean that a club wanting to poach that manager this could restrict compensation to the notice period. . So as neither of us knows the details of Moores and his staffs contract , it would be prudent to assume the worst case that the club would be liable to payout the length of their contracts. I don't know and don't really care about the terms of DM's contract! This discussion started with you suggesting incorrectly that managers *usually* get paid out the full term of their contract when they leave - info from a 'Sports Management Co', wrapped up with an incorrect "you can't legally..." statement. I pointed out that actually managers pretty much always have exit clauses and payouts negotiated up front as part of their contract (and I know the actual value of these for a couple of managers who lost their jobs last year and this who had very different contracts, one described in the media as "3 year deal" the other as a "rolling deal" - they BOTH had exit clauses that were equal to 3 months of pay (one was '3 months of base pay' and one was same and included extras being a proportion of loyalty and performance bonuses earned). And no, it wouldn't be prudent to assume the worst case scenario that the club would be liable to pay out the FULL length of their contracts - given, THAT IS NOT THE CASE!! (that assumption does however set forth a handy base for going, "look at our shit club, they can't afford to get rid of DM, and they're probably still paying Fotheringham because he signed a deal to June 2025...useless"..which I suspect is where the reasoning comes from!? 🤷♂️) |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 20, 2023 16:13:25 GMT 1
Moores job is safe till at least mid Feb, there is no immediate threat to his job, subject to the usual caveats that no managers job is secure. Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Dec 20, 2023 16:18:13 GMT 1
Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. If a lot is to "change" how about you give us a little insight into what in January is going to "change". It really has to change a heck of a lot , as currently if the club plan of the prem/ challenging for the prem within 3 years with Moore in charge, is so far off its laughable. People like yourself keep talking about the injury problems, this is where a real good coach/ manager earns their money, there are many other clubs who have had injury issues, even bigger ones than ours. These clubs managers have still shown their capabilities, where as Moore simply has not for me or others. |
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Post by FloridaTerrier on Dec 20, 2023 16:28:04 GMT 1
I am more concerned with the narrative that the objective is to stay up and to stay out the relegation places. There is still so much time left to mount a play off run/charge.
Granted, the players at our disposal are not play off material strength, and our squad is weak for the championship. But, more reason to invest into the squad come January to strengthen it and give ourselves the best chance to do that.
Why isn't that our mindset? Why are we not looking up the table as opposed to be worrying what's below us? How can we mount a 3 year plan with 1 season surviving, 1 season consolidating, and 1 season pushing? Thats not realistically, we need to be top mid table this season, to warrant any "ambitious" style signings.
Who in their right mind would join the club if it is season over season fighting relegation?
Who worth their salt will believe that the style of play will benefit their career?
We're rapidly affecting the clubs and the players mindsets, limiting their beliefs, limiting them to what actually is possible by thinking so small.
I'm not convinced.
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 20, 2023 16:32:12 GMT 1
Do you know the exact terms of Moores contract ? I’d guess you don’t . If a club insisted on notice periods, then it’s highly likely the manager would also insist on notice periods , which is almost a given, this would mean that a club wanting to poach that manager this could restrict compensation to the notice period. . So as neither of us knows the details of Moores and his staffs contract , it would be prudent to assume the worst case that the club would be liable to payout the length of their contracts. I don't know and don't really care about the terms of DM's contract! This discussion started with you suggesting incorrectly that managers *usually* get paid out the full term of their contract when they leave - info from a 'Sports Management Co', wrapped up with an incorrect "you can't legally..." statement. I pointed out that actually managers pretty much always have exit clauses and payouts negotiated up front as part of their contract (and I know the actual value of these for a couple of managers who lost their jobs last year and this who had very different contracts, one described in the media as "3 year deal" the other as a "rolling deal" - they BOTH had exit clauses that were equal to 3 months of pay (one was '3 months of base pay' and one was same and included extras being a proportion of loyalty and performance bonuses earned). And no, it wouldn't be prudent to assume the worst case scenario that the club would be liable to pay out the FULL length of their contracts - given, THAT IS NOT THE CASE!! (that assumption does however set forth a handy base for going, "look at our shit club, they can't afford to get rid of DM, and they're probably still paying Fotheringham because he signed a deal to June 2025...useless"..which I suspect is where the reasoning comes from!? 🤷♂️) It’s prudent ! |
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Post by dezzly on Dec 20, 2023 16:33:55 GMT 1
Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. Maybe that is the plan but let’s just hypothetically say we get beat 4 at Norwich and then 3 at home to Blackburn.At that point it would be 2 wins in 17,8 draws 7 losses with all the losses conceding 3 or more.Surely at that point the plan has to change. I always said I’d wait and see so I’m not saying simply just get rid but since we have had the majority of the players back(I don’t really think you can point to anyone now) other than having more of the ball I don’t see what’s changed.other than if anything looking slightly easier to play against. |
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 20, 2023 16:36:06 GMT 1
Moores job is safe till at least mid Feb, there is no immediate threat to his job, subject to the usual caveats that no managers job is secure. Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. Think you will find his principal job is head coach, he certainly won’t be judged on his media presentation, we’re a football club not f**king Sky or the BBC. |
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Post by desertstorm on Dec 20, 2023 16:37:06 GMT 1
I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. Maybe that is the plan but let’s just hypothetically say we get beat 4 at Norwich and then 3 at home to Blackburn.At that point it would be 2 wins in 17,8 draws 7 losses with all the losses conceding 3 or more.Surely at that point the plan has to change. I always said I’d wait and see so I’m not saying simply just get rid but since we have had the majority of the players back(I don’t really think you can point to anyone now) other than having more of the ball I don’t see what’s changed.other than if anything looking slightly easier to play against. There are other variables taken into account in addition to results. |
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 20, 2023 16:37:42 GMT 1
I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. Maybe that is the plan but let’s just hypothetically say we get beat 4 at Norwich and then 3 at home to Blackburn.At that point it would be 2 wins in 17,8 draws 7 losses with all the losses conceding 3 or more.Surely at that point the plan has to change. I always said I’d wait and see so I’m not saying simply just get rid but since we have had the majority of the players back(I don’t really think you can point to anyone now) other than having more of the ball I don’t see what’s changed.other than if anything looking slightly easier to play against. Jackson at right back is a miss at this moment.imo. |
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Post by dezzly on Dec 20, 2023 16:44:37 GMT 1
Maybe that is the plan but let’s just hypothetically say we get beat 4 at Norwich and then 3 at home to Blackburn.At that point it would be 2 wins in 17,8 draws 7 losses with all the losses conceding 3 or more.Surely at that point the plan has to change. I always said I’d wait and see so I’m not saying simply just get rid but since we have had the majority of the players back(I don’t really think you can point to anyone now) other than having more of the ball I don’t see what’s changed.other than if anything looking slightly easier to play against. Jackson at right back is a miss at this moment.imo. Yeh that’s true although if he wants to stick with 3-5-2 I don’t see where he fits in,unless he shifts to the left instead of headley.if he plays right that means sorba missing out unless we go back to the flat 5-4-1 Or we could I suppose go 4 at the back,depends what the plan is when he’s fit. |
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Post by dezzly on Dec 20, 2023 16:46:20 GMT 1
Maybe that is the plan but let’s just hypothetically say we get beat 4 at Norwich and then 3 at home to Blackburn.At that point it would be 2 wins in 17,8 draws 7 losses with all the losses conceding 3 or more.Surely at that point the plan has to change. I always said I’d wait and see so I’m not saying simply just get rid but since we have had the majority of the players back(I don’t really think you can point to anyone now) other than having more of the ball I don’t see what’s changed.other than if anything looking slightly easier to play against. There are other variables taken into account in addition to results. Yeh I take that point I guess all things come into it all with pros and cons.if they stick with him they stick with him and I hope he can build on it.I would just think that potential record is tough to defend. Also I have seen your other posts so I’m aware your statement could be suggesting that he may go not just because of results. |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 735 
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Post by Rambo on Dec 20, 2023 16:59:13 GMT 1
Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. So it appears the suits are keeping their fingers crossed we stay 21st or better! As opposed to being proactive in influencing our chances ourselves. Interesting strategy! |
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 20, 2023 17:01:08 GMT 1
Jackson at right back is a miss at this moment.imo. Yeh that’s true although if he wants to stick with 3-5-2 I don’t see where he fits in,unless he shifts to the left instead of headley.if he plays right that means sorba missing out unless we go back to the flat 5-4-1 Or we could I suppose go 4 at the back,depends what the plan is when he’s fit. I’d like to give 4 at the back ago, especially if we’re playing a team with out and out wingers, ie Norwich and especially Leicester. 4/5/1. With wing backs as backup for the fullbacks, as you have said previously we could probably do with a Center back with a bit more pace . |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 735
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Post by Rambo on Dec 20, 2023 17:01:16 GMT 1
The club realises!!! Silence isn’t always a true indicator of what happens behind the scenes. If someone is to move on there has to be a clear exit strategy. January is huge, on many levels. The club is fully aware that things need to change, Darren will be given chance to be part of this change how long he is given without a change in the performances / approach is anyones guess, but to be clear the full team from top to bottom including Darren are not happy with current performances and are working hard on a plan to change this. I still feel we need to give Darren a chance to sort it out, with a few new signings and players coming back, the target of staying in the championship is still very acheivable, I also fully agree that it does need to start to change sooner rather than later however. "Darren" is part of the problem unfortunately! |
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 20, 2023 17:02:06 GMT 1
I have the same information the Darren will be here, and not judged until at least mid february, look this could change but as long as the position in the table stays where it is or better I dont believe Darren will be going anywhere (dropping into the bottom 3 for an odd week will not be enough to change this), if we go and lose 3 or 4 in a row then something could be looked at. The people at the top are all fully aware of what a difficult job Darren has on with the current squad, he is trying to coach in a very different way to what he wants to make sure we stay in the mix, with the correct tools we would not be playing like we are, and if we tried to play as wanted currently no way would we have picked up as many points. He needs to be judged when he changes it around and starts to try and be more entertaining. Lots will change between now and mid february that could get the fans back on side and get everyone moving together. So it appears the suits are keeping their fingers crossed we stay 21st or better! As opposed to being proactive in influencing our chances ourselves. Interesting strategy! You’re assuming another coach would do better ! |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 735
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Post by Rambo on Dec 20, 2023 17:03:16 GMT 1
Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. Think you will find his principal job is head coach, he certainly won’t be judged on his media presentation, we’re a football club not f**king Sky or the BBC. Are we back in 1975? |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 735
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Post by Rambo on Dec 20, 2023 17:04:44 GMT 1
So it appears the suits are keeping their fingers crossed we stay 21st or better! As opposed to being proactive in influencing our chances ourselves. Interesting strategy! You’re assuming another coach would do better ! Facts show they wouldn't do much worse. Facts showed that another coach WAS doing better. So probably, yeah. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
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Post by goodbet on Dec 20, 2023 17:28:48 GMT 1
2 wins in a third of a season would see most managers brushing up their CV. The quandary I guess is that one loss in six, and only conceding more than 1 once in the last 8 usually wouldn't (irrespective of the amount of draws, which are largely down to the lack of a goal-scorer...not much DM can do about that). We're half a goal per game away from a perfectly respectable finish. One decent player could deliver that. Half a goal? What game are you talking about? |
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Post by townarentbest on Dec 20, 2023 17:39:54 GMT 1
The quandary I guess is that one loss in six, and only conceding more than 1 once in the last 8 usually wouldn't (irrespective of the amount of draws, which are largely down to the lack of a goal-scorer...not much DM can do about that). We're half a goal per game away from a perfectly respectable finish. One decent player could deliver that. Half a goal? What game are you talking about? One where sometimes we score an extra goal compared to today, and sometimes we don't...converting half of our draw's into wins. A TINY improvement, yet if only 2 of our five draws since losing to Leeds changed to wins, we'd have an extra 4 points and everyone would be talking about strengthening in January for a potential push for a top-half finish! Basically - we aren't rubbish and we aren't really that far off getting perfectly acceptable results. Just a shame its so very dull to watch! |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Dec 20, 2023 17:48:02 GMT 1
Based on what, though? Your opinion? Or word from someone at the club? There are other posters on this thread who have implied that his job is not as safe as you suggest. What information do you have that they don't, or, why is your narrative so vastly different to theirs? I cannot believe that his job would be safe for another two months if we continue to perform so poorly on the pitch, and are represented so poorly by our head coach in the media. Think you will find his principal job is head coach, he certainly won’t be judged on his media presentation, we’re a football club not f**king Sky or the BBC. How about answering my question? |
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htfcterry
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:2]htfcterry
Posts: 3,894
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Post by htfcterry on Dec 20, 2023 18:00:27 GMT 1
Yeh that’s true although if he wants to stick with 3-5-2 I don’t see where he fits in,unless he shifts to the left instead of headley.if he plays right that means sorba missing out unless we go back to the flat 5-4-1 Or we could I suppose go 4 at the back,depends what the plan is when he’s fit. I’d like to give 4 at the back ago, especially if we’re playing a team with out and out wingers, ie Norwich and especially Leicester. 4/5/1. With wing backs as backup for the fullbacks, as you have said previously we could probably do with a Center back with a bit more pace . Fuck me, we can barely defend with 5 at the back and you want to take one of them away 😂😂😂 |
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Post by willo on Dec 20, 2023 18:55:33 GMT 1
Coming at January from another angle, I’m concerned about us losing one of the few quality players we have in January as much as not getting the right players through the door. We lose Nicholls or Rudoni for instance and we’re in an even bigger mess than we already are. Could easily happen if one of the teams vying for promotion came knocking. And what signal would that send out to supporters?
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Post by rockwall on Dec 20, 2023 18:55:40 GMT 1
Half a goal? What game are you talking about? One where sometimes we score an extra goal compared to today, and sometimes we don't...converting half of our draw's into wins. A TINY improvement, yet if only 2 of our five draws since losing to Leeds changed to wins, we'd have an extra 4 points and everyone would be talking about strengthening in January for a potential push for a top-half finish! Basically - we aren't rubbish and we aren't really that far off getting perfectly acceptable results. Just a shame its so very dull to watch! Cardiff 4-0 Leeds 4-1 Birmingham 4-1 Norwich 4-0 Plymouth 3-1 Preston 3-1 We have lost 8 games. 6 by more than 1 goal. Only Hull and Leicester have been by 1 goal. But we are not rubbish.... Which of these isn't far off to being acceptable? |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 735
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Post by Rambo on Dec 20, 2023 19:08:21 GMT 1
Coming at January from another angle, I’m concerned about us losing one of the few quality players we have in January as much as not getting the right players through the door. We lose Nicholls or Rudoni for instance and we’re in an even bigger mess than we already are. Could easily happen if one of the teams vying for promotion came knocking. And what signal would that send out to supporters? Coming at it from a different angle, but which magic hat are we pulling these Championship ready and championship quality players from, that'll save "Darrens" bacon? |
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Post by Up the Duff. on Dec 20, 2023 19:24:28 GMT 1
Moores job is safe till at least mid Feb, there is no immediate threat to his job, subject to the usual caveats that no managers job is secure. His job is only safe until February as long as the results are OK. Lose the next 3 and he is gone. |
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