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Post by 2ellandback on Dec 13, 2023 10:52:09 GMT 1
And Hoyle is still to be heard chirping away about leaving the club in a better state than he found it. This is not somehting that is in doubt. L1 club > Championship club, many other areas also far improved from when he took over HTAFC were more likley to be in L2 than the championship at this point in time. what an idiotic thing to say. What were the debts when Hoyle took over. And what were the debts just before Nagle agreed to write them off? |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by iangreaves on Dec 13, 2023 10:57:56 GMT 1
It’s down to character for me: do Nagle, Cartwright et al have the backbone to stand up and admit they made a massive mistake? We’re probably not selling many half season tickets this Christmas. Whatever projections we had for price/volume of tickets next season will be up in smoke if things stay as they are. Do they have the humility to undo the only major decision they’ve made to date, and renounce the ridiculous fanfare they announced it with? Would you trust Cartwright to choose Moore’s replacement and would you trust him with the January transfer window? |
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Post by 2ellandback on Dec 13, 2023 10:59:09 GMT 1
It’s down to character for me: do Nagle, Cartwright et al have the backbone to stand up and admit they made a massive mistake? We’re probably not selling many half season tickets this Christmas. Whatever projections we had for price/volume of tickets next season will be up in smoke if things stay as they are. Do they have the humility to undo the only major decision they’ve made to date, and renounce the ridiculous fanfare they announced it with? Would you trust Cartwright to choose Moore’s replacement and would you trust him with the January transfer window? No. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:00:30 GMT 1
This is not somehting that is in doubt. L1 club > Championship club, many other areas also far improved from when he took over HTAFC were more likley to be in L2 than the championship at this point in time. what an idiotic thing to say. What were the debts when Hoyle took over. And what were the debts just before Nagle agreed to write them off? Why are you asking this guy, aka Htafc35? He’s a WUM. |
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Dec 13, 2023 11:00:44 GMT 1
And Hoyle is still to be heard chirping away about leaving the club in a better state than he found it. This is not somehting that is in doubt. L1 club > Championship club, many other areas also far improved from when he took over HTAFC were more likley to be in L2 than the championship at this point in time. what an idiotic thing to say. Give over. It’s in a worse state. Better league position yes but not a better state. All you Hoyle apologists are one of the reasons he went unquestioned for so long. He’s plunged the squad into deeper depths, replacing crap managers with shit managers, employed people in high positions who aren’t qualified or good enough to do the job, he’s allowed stadium situation to be a bigger problem than it needed to be and STILL years later after promising those shares would be put in a trust. The man is one of the biggest reasons things are like they are now. The clubs a mess, still. And he’s absolutely part of the reason. |
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Post by 2ellandback on Dec 13, 2023 11:13:25 GMT 1
What were the debts when Hoyle took over. And what were the debts just before Nagle agreed to write them off? Why are you asking this guy, aka Htafc35? He’s a WUM. Yes I realise he is a fraud. It was a rhetorical question. |
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Post by rockwall on Dec 13, 2023 11:20:34 GMT 1
Not the best name, but for stability, we couldn't do worse than Tony Mowbray. Did well at Blackburn and Sunderland. Both look worse since he left them. Worse? Sunderland have just beaten West Brom and Leeds since they sacked Mowbray? Fair point. |
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Post by rockwall on Dec 13, 2023 11:22:51 GMT 1
His job at Blackburn was very good to be fair, he knows the league and his teams play decent football. I wasn’t questioning Mowbray, more Rockwells assertion that Sunderland look worse since he left them. error on my part. |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:23:50 GMT 1
This is not somehting that is in doubt. L1 club > Championship club, many other areas also far improved from when he took over HTAFC were more likley to be in L2 than the championship at this point in time. what an idiotic thing to say. What were the debts when Hoyle took over. And what were the debts just before Nagle agreed to write them off? Dean sold a club debt free what is your point !? |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:25:42 GMT 1
Why are you asking this guy, aka Htafc35? He’s a WUM. Yes I realise he is a fraud. It was a rhetorical question.  |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:29:03 GMT 1
This is not somehting that is in doubt. L1 club > Championship club, many other areas also far improved from when he took over HTAFC were more likley to be in L2 than the championship at this point in time. what an idiotic thing to say. Give over. It’s in a worse state. Better league position yes but not a better state. All you Hoyle apologists are one of the reasons he went unquestioned for so long. He’s plunged the squad into deeper depths, replacing crap managers with shit managers, employed people in high positions who aren’t qualified or good enough to do the job, he’s allowed stadium situation to be a bigger problem than it needed to be and STILL years later after promising those shares would be put in a trust. The man is one of the biggest reasons things are like they are now. The clubs a mess, still. And he’s absolutely part of the reason. absolute bull this, anyone who thinks we are in a worse position now than when Dean took over is living in a dream. I really dont like the current performances on the pitch, but to say we are worse is a complete joke. Dean is part of the reason for sure that we are where we are (better than when he took over), Dean is also part of the reason why we still have a club to support and one still at the moment in the championship. I am sure this thread is about our current manager and not our old owner anyway. |
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Post by Sio on Dec 13, 2023 11:31:54 GMT 1
Give over. It’s in a worse state. Better league position yes but not a better state. All you Hoyle apologists are one of the reasons he went unquestioned for so long. He’s plunged the squad into deeper depths, replacing crap managers with shit managers, employed people in high positions who aren’t qualified or good enough to do the job, he’s allowed stadium situation to be a bigger problem than it needed to be and STILL years later after promising those shares would be put in a trust. The man is one of the biggest reasons things are like they are now. The clubs a mess, still. And he’s absolutely part of the reason. absolute bull this, anyone who thinks we are in a worse position now than when Dean took over is living in a dream. I really dont like the current performances on the pitch, but to say we are worse is a complete joke. Dean is part of the reason for sure that we are where we are (better than when he took over), Dean is also part of the reason why we still have a club to support and one still at the moment in the championship. I am sure this thread is about our current manager and not our old owner anyway. OK I'll take back my previous comments and admit my mistake: you're definitely HTAFC35 after that post |
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:34:24 GMT 1
It’s down to character for me: do Nagle, Cartwright et al have the backbone to stand up and admit they made a massive mistake? We’re probably not selling many half season tickets this Christmas. Whatever projections we had for price/volume of tickets next season will be up in smoke if things stay as they are. Do they have the humility to undo the only major decision they’ve made to date, and renounce the ridiculous fanfare they announced it with? Whichever way you look at it the suits have made a complete mess of the first half of this season. If we believe Moore is the problem then they're the ones who brought him in. If we believe the squad is letting Moore down then they have badly underestimated what was needed to be a championship club and significantly under invested. Personally I believe both are correct but a better manager would have got more out of these players and better results. So what's the plan now? We let the same manager loose with players who may be slightly better? They may drag performances up but it's more likely that he drags their quality down with shambolic tactics and poor preparation. |
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Post by dugnet on Dec 13, 2023 11:36:21 GMT 1
This is not somehting that is in doubt. L1 club > Championship club, many other areas also far improved from when he took over HTAFC were more likley to be in L2 than the championship at this point in time. what an idiotic thing to say. Give over. It’s in a worse state. Better league position yes but not a better state. All you Hoyle apologists are one of the reasons he went unquestioned for so long. He’s plunged the squad into deeper depths, replacing crap managers with shit managers, employed people in high positions who aren’t qualified or good enough to do the job, he’s allowed stadium situation to be a bigger problem than it needed to be and STILL years later after promising those shares would be put in a trust. The man is one of the biggest reasons things are like they are now. The clubs a mess, still. And he’s absolutely part of the reason. I think there is considerable merit in your observations but DH is no longer in charge and we have to look to what Mr Nagle does now. I understand why there is a, polarised, debate on the merits and issues of the DH era (and I get your points completely) but it won't change anything. The same is true for those who defend/accentuate the good things he did do, it's the past. What Mr Nagle needs to do, in my opinion, is to look at the past and learn from it. Something that requires humility and a level head. My biggest criticism of DH would be his inability to own and learn from his mistakes. Mr Nagle cannot be responsible for DHs mistakes but he can learn from them. |
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by ben1987 on Dec 13, 2023 11:37:50 GMT 1
Give over. It’s in a worse state. Better league position yes but not a better state. All you Hoyle apologists are one of the reasons he went unquestioned for so long. He’s plunged the squad into deeper depths, replacing crap managers with shit managers, employed people in high positions who aren’t qualified or good enough to do the job, he’s allowed stadium situation to be a bigger problem than it needed to be and STILL years later after promising those shares would be put in a trust. The man is one of the biggest reasons things are like they are now. The clubs a mess, still. And he’s absolutely part of the reason. absolute bull this, anyone who thinks we are in a worse position now than when Dean took over is living in a dream. I really dont like the current performances on the pitch, but to say we are worse is a complete joke. Dean is part of the reason for sure that we are where we are (better than when he took over), Dean is also part of the reason why we still have a club to support and one still at the moment in the championship. I am sure this thread is about our current manager and not our old owner anyway. Ok m8 |
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Post by dugnet on Dec 13, 2023 11:41:39 GMT 1
Give over. It’s in a worse state. Better league position yes but not a better state. All you Hoyle apologists are one of the reasons he went unquestioned for so long. He’s plunged the squad into deeper depths, replacing crap managers with shit managers, employed people in high positions who aren’t qualified or good enough to do the job, he’s allowed stadium situation to be a bigger problem than it needed to be and STILL years later after promising those shares would be put in a trust. The man is one of the biggest reasons things are like they are now. The clubs a mess, still. And he’s absolutely part of the reason. absolute bull this, anyone who thinks we are in a worse position now than when Dean took over is living in a dream. I really dont like the current performances on the pitch, but to say we are worse is a complete joke. Dean is part of the reason for sure that we are where we are (better than when he took over), Dean is also part of the reason why we still have a club to support and one still at the moment in the championship. I am sure this thread is about our current manager and not our old owner anyway. There is some absolute truth in what you say but Bens' comments also have an element of fact around them (the stadium share issue promise that wasn't delivered being one). As I posted above it is a pointless debate but there are lessons everyone can learn from. If we did/do drop into League One are we any better off? I would only offer in one respect the good memories of the successes on the pitch, which don't count for anything when you are watching out current team stink the place out on cold Tuesday in December. That last comment is relevant to the subject in hand, but as you are concerned about the categorisation of this thread I am sure that the current admins would welcome some help. |
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Post by durhamterrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:42:22 GMT 1
Last night was arguably our strongest eleven bar Rudoni and the tactics and performance was woeful . If we’re all honest the two wins we’ve picked up under Moore have been lucky and the draws have often been scraped. He’s not up for the challenge our thin squad presents and he will take us down Nicholls definitely stronger than Maxwell, he's done well in his few appearances but all 3 goals last night were poor especially the 3rd. Nicholls back in at the weekend for me. Someone taking the piss out of Ruffels further down the board but he would definitely make us stronger at the moment. We're constantly getting rinsed down the right hand side and anyone who plays Koroma as a wing back in future should be sacked as soon as the line up is announced. Arguably Turton would get in or Jackson so again Thomas as wing back makes us weaker as well. As you say, Rudoni for Austerfield or Wiles. Austerfield just another of our Academy 'prospects' who will rock up at somewhere like Forest Green in years to come. Finally arguably Rhodes for Ward. So nowhere near our strongest eleven IMO but I agree with your last comment. Thought he deserved more time but he's making ridiculous decisions with the limited resources he's got. Agree with the sentiment but if someone had said the eleven on the pitch were the below , it’s tough to argue that it was a weak eleven . It’s also tough to argue it’s a defensive eleven like he has us set up Maxwell Pearson Lees Helik Thomas Koroma Hogg Kasumu Rudoni (in place of austerfield) Ward Burgzorg Subs on of Wiles Nakayama |
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Post by thomo on Dec 13, 2023 11:45:34 GMT 1
Very much come to the end of the road now with DM. We need to change sooner rather than later.
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Dec 13, 2023 11:46:07 GMT 1
3 Votes for 115 Against... Damning.
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Dec 13, 2023 11:48:55 GMT 1
3 Votes for 115 Against... Damning. Tbh a poll isn’t required, the photos of the stands last night tells you where people are at. The fans have had enough. |
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Post by bblueterrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:48:59 GMT 1
He's not going anywhere in the short term...
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Post by detox on Dec 13, 2023 11:49:21 GMT 1
What I can't stomach is the way we've simply rolled over against Swansea, Bristol and Preston after we had probably our best performance in winning at Sunderland in an aggressive , harrassing performance that brought us a famous 2-1 win. Why did he abandon that tactical masterclass that showed, despite the weakness of our squad, that the players can actually perform successfully in a high tempo game plan ? Why is DM so dour, boring and hesitant in allowing the players to properly express themselves.''like they did at Sunderland in that 1st half..?
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Post by boooothy on Dec 13, 2023 11:50:01 GMT 1
Our Darren isn’t doing very well and we let Warnock go FAR too early. We are where we are though and i don’t think another manger coming in is the answer. Unless that manager was Warnock obviously.
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Dec 13, 2023 11:55:42 GMT 1
It’s down to character for me: do Nagle, Cartwright et al have the backbone to stand up and admit they made a massive mistake? We’re probably not selling many half season tickets this Christmas. Whatever projections we had for price/volume of tickets next season will be up in smoke if things stay as they are. Do they have the humility to undo the only major decision they’ve made to date, and renounce the ridiculous fanfare they announced it with? Would you trust Cartwright to choose Moore’s replacement and would you trust him with the January transfer window? Based on his first signing, Edwards, then no. Cartwright is THE mistake. Poor appointment, he’s been away from the British game too long. |
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Post by townrwe on Dec 13, 2023 11:56:14 GMT 1
3 Votes for 115 Against... Damning. fozza had a 10% approval rating when he was sacked, just for a bit of context, and he was widely regarded as the least popular manager of a generation. |
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Post by VLP Fan Club on Dec 13, 2023 11:56:17 GMT 1
He's not going anywhere in the short term... This stinks of Fotheringham again, kept getting given longer, many of the ITK in here said he wasn’t going anywhere and another 3 losses later or so he was gone. It’s not working out, it isn’t going to work out, we’re only going to plunge further into trouble. Get. Rid. Now. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:59:44 GMT 1
He's not going anywhere in the short term... What do you mean by “short term”? |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Dec 13, 2023 11:59:58 GMT 1
In patches (i.e. last night for 20 mins) this side has proved it is good enough for a mid table finish.
However, is DM the man to make it happen?
Some of his selections last night suggest he is not. No disrespect to young Austerfield, but he never looked any more than 3rd choice holding midfielder.
Once our main injuries are back (how much are we missing Rudoni?!!) we can make a proper assessment, but would any of is trust him with ££££££ to go spend in January?
I think DM may only have a handful of games to turn this around.
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Post by Sio on Dec 13, 2023 12:07:15 GMT 1
He's not going anywhere in the short term... You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? |
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Post by benhomly on Dec 13, 2023 12:07:48 GMT 1
Nicholls definitely stronger than Maxwell, he's done well in his few appearances but all 3 goals last night were poor especially the 3rd. Nicholls back in at the weekend for me. Someone taking the piss out of Ruffels further down the board but he would definitely make us stronger at the moment. We're constantly getting rinsed down the right hand side and anyone who plays Koroma as a wing back in future should be sacked as soon as the line up is announced. Arguably Turton would get in or Jackson so again Thomas as wing back makes us weaker as well. As you say, Rudoni for Austerfield or Wiles. Austerfield just another of our Academy 'prospects' who will rock up at somewhere like Forest Green in years to come. Finally arguably Rhodes for Ward. So nowhere near our strongest eleven IMO but I agree with your last comment. Thought he deserved more time but he's making ridiculous decisions with the limited resources he's got. Agree with the sentiment but if someone had said the eleven on the pitch were the below , it’s tough to argue that it was a weak eleven . It’s also tough to argue it’s a defensive eleven like he has us set up Maxwell Pearson Lees Helik Thomas Koroma Hogg Kasumu Rudoni (in place of austerfield) Ward Burgzorg Subs on of Wiles Nakayama Very true but you can't just name your best players and say that's your strongest team. Thomas and especially Koroma are not wing backs, it's no wonder we concede plenty of goals with a side like that. Maybe the 3 centre backs aren't doing enough but the opposition must be pissing themselves in the changing room when they see that line up. |
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