Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,993
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Post by Tiro on Feb 5, 2024 15:04:37 GMT 1
Genuine question; having read that article, and identifying that we are not a possession based team, what is it that you're so against? Why do you think it won't work with this squad at this club? I think his name just isn't considered big-enough / good enough to meet Fans' expectations. You have assumed here (ass-u-me). Amongst all the managers that have been mentioned, he would be my first choice. I think he would suit our kind of football and after watching him on the touchline during the Barnsley play-offs, I was impressed with his demeanour. We'll have a better idea after his first news conference if he is successful... you always get an inkling of what a manager is about by how he relates. Not necessarily 'assumed', but maybe misinterpreted your initial response where you seemed to escalate the concern.
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Post by dugnet on Feb 5, 2024 15:06:34 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required.
Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one.
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Post by tottz on Feb 5, 2024 15:07:45 GMT 1
Long time listener, first time caller…
I’ve voted for Steve Cooper. I know he’s out of our league but if Kevin Nagle is as ambitious as he says he is, going all out for him would be a real statement of intent.
If I were to be more realistic, Duff is probably the best option on the list. He plays a brand of football we as a fan base would take to and he’s got a 66% hit rate in his three jobs so far which is pretty good for an out of work manager.
One poster mentioned that he will be travelling from Cheltenham if he gets the job. That would be a major downside for me, but you can’t have everything I suppose
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Post by waggers on Feb 5, 2024 15:16:24 GMT 1
Long time listener, first time caller… I’ve voted for Steve Cooper. I know he’s out of our league but if Kevin Nagle is as ambitious as he says he is, going all out for him would be a real statement of intent. If I were to be more realistic, Duff is probably the best option on the list. He plays a brand of football we as a fan base would take to and he’s got a 66% hit rate in his three jobs so far which is pretty good for an out of work manager. One poster mentioned that he will be travelling from Cheltenham if he gets the job. That would be a major downside for me, but you can’t have everything I suppose It's a fair treck. Didn't Dyche commute from the Midlands every day when he was at Burnley?
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,993
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Post by Tiro on Feb 5, 2024 15:18:18 GMT 1
Thought this was an interesting read around why Duff got the boot at Swansea. A lot of commonality between him and Moore. Duff also had a really poor start which in not what we need. Not saying Duff is the wrong appointment if that is where we go. Just some warning lights flashing. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67626321Irrespective of what Swansea think is their identity (fair play to them having one, and sticking with it), some of the detail in this article has some unerringly worrying comparisons with our last appointment. The use of the phrase "progressive football" (I'm getting a view that this is the latest football buzz word/gobbledegook that people trot out - ie it means sod all) is worrying too. I am not one for dismissing anyone, especially someone only linked, but my gut feeling isn't good. The plus side is that I am wrong as much as I am right so let's hope that is the case. Or, we find someone far more dynamic, engaging, exciting and truly progressive. Absolutely. We've been talking about the 'terrier spirit' our identify for a long while now, but it has been broken by a lack of committed leadership and stability. Fait play to Swansea for having one. I often believe the most successful clubs, and those that I admire the most, are those with a clear identify (whether you like that style ort not) e.g. Brighton, Brentford, Dortmund, Barce, Bilbao; you know what you're getting with those clubs. They're not reactive, and whilst they may inevitably change, it is a variation on a theme. Not a hard reset. Man Utd and Chelsea are prime examples of how not to do it at the top-level. The intent is there, but it takes a foundation and time to build it.
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Posts: 1,567
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Post by Maynardblue on Feb 5, 2024 15:18:36 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊
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Post by desertstorm on Feb 5, 2024 15:20:16 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊 Shots fired 😂
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,993
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Post by Tiro on Feb 5, 2024 15:20:36 GMT 1
If Nagle has any aspirations then surely he cannot afford another gamble. He needs to do his research and go after the right man imo, even if he's attached to another club. We cannot afford to be relegated. It has to be the best man for the job. Exactly, and in the meantime he might as well stay with Worthington who knows all the players and what makes them click, as well as displaying nous in formations and tactics. On a side note, you and your avatar are absolutely crippling my restraint.
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Post by tottz on Feb 5, 2024 15:22:04 GMT 1
Long time listener, first time caller… I’ve voted for Steve Cooper. I know he’s out of our league but if Kevin Nagle is as ambitious as he says he is, going all out for him would be a real statement of intent. If I were to be more realistic, Duff is probably the best option on the list. He plays a brand of football we as a fan base would take to and he’s got a 66% hit rate in his three jobs so far which is pretty good for an out of work manager. One poster mentioned that he will be travelling from Cheltenham if he gets the job. That would be a major downside for me, but you can’t have everything I suppose It's a fair treck. Didn't Dyche commute from the Midlands every day when he was at Burnley? Yeah I think you’re right, suppose that shows it can be done successfully then
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 952
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Post by prepare on Feb 5, 2024 15:23:22 GMT 1
Just heard … it’s going to be Michael Duff. The ex Barnsley and Swansea manager. They are negotiating terms now! who from!!
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 952
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Post by prepare on Feb 5, 2024 15:25:24 GMT 1
It's a fair treck. Didn't Dyche commute from the Midlands every day when he was at Burnley? Yeah I think you’re right, suppose that shows it can be done successfully then no he rented a house near Burnley most of week
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Post by jqhtfc on Feb 5, 2024 15:27:41 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊 Jobs for the boys 😂
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Posts: 1,567
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Post by Maynardblue on Feb 5, 2024 15:29:34 GMT 1
On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊 Shots fired 😂 I hope you aren't suggesting he's a high calibre candidate that you alluded to the other day 😉
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Post by dugnet on Feb 5, 2024 15:35:12 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊 I'll await for the announcement when they use the phrase "we conducted an extensive search"!!
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 5, 2024 15:35:42 GMT 1
Is Cooper out of reach? His next job will be in the Championship IMO. Cant see any PL club going for him. Yes he could wait for a bigger championship club...a Sunderland..or a Sheff Utd when they go down.... but in terms of a project..ie the backing he might get,,then with our new owner it might be attractive to him and as a club we've proved we can succeed at this level. Sometimes its about timing and how keen he is to get back in. Id be surprised if we havent sounded him out at least and he hadnt seriously considered us if we had. he got a new contract at florist on proper PL terms. No doubt if he gets another job that will stop. So he'll be wanting something very well paid He will but he'll also have to accept he isnt a PL manager anymore so will have to accept a Championship manager wage if he wants to work again, surely? Think Nagle will realise it is THE key appointment, so wont scrimp on it.
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Post by VLP Fan Club on Feb 5, 2024 15:38:06 GMT 1
On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊 I'll await for the announcement when they use the phrase "we conducted an extensive search"!! Of Cartwrights phone contacts
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Post by kennyk2 on Feb 5, 2024 15:41:50 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. On the plus side he's a Beswick Sports client ! 🙊 The same Beswick Sports that's registered in Stoke I'm guessing.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 5, 2024 15:43:52 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. What went wrong was that half our already weak, striker-light squad was out injured a lot of the time and he struggled to cope. Time and the January window has put that right, but they sacked him anyway. Not sure who they could have appointed back then who'd have coped very well with the hand Moore was dealt, though Im sure some might have done marginally better...some might have done worse too. His track record was sound, so not sure what they can learn from it, other than that it would be helpful to know what crisis is round the corner so they can appoint a manager who'll be able to cope with it. It'll be a gamble whoever it is, like it was with Moore. they'll probably go for someone who's more 'media comfortable' as that seemed to become a huge issue for a lot of fans.
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Post by dugnet on Feb 5, 2024 15:47:03 GMT 1
he got a new contract at florist on proper PL terms. No doubt if he gets another job that will stop. So he'll be wanting something very well paid He will but he'll also have to accept he isnt a PL manager anymore so will have to accept a Championship manager wage if he wants to work again, surely? Think Nagle will realise it is THE key appointment, so wont scrimp on it. You'd hope not but everything so far has played down investment in the team and management. Now that might be under promising/over delivering or it maybe linked to a sesnsible/frugal strategy. Money doesn't guarantee anything but, as we know from recent experience it is easy to burn it. It depends on what Mr Nagle is really trying to achieve. I know we have had some words but little detail (of the vision and ambition). As such if we don't attract someone like Cooper it naturally sets an expectation of the longer term strategy. That of course doesn't mean someone else can't be successful but we can't marry the ambition with actions and intent. There are too many loose ends and implied directions for me. I don't hear anything that worries me, but I have nothing to measure progress against. I cannot buy the argument that Moore was part of a long term plan because it didn't hang together with the story we were told in the summer (that NW would be here for at least the season). It all feels best intentions but a bit muddled at the moment. An appointment such as Cooper would set a completely different agenda. Apologies for a long winded reply to being unsure that Mr Nagle won't "scrimp".
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 5, 2024 15:48:38 GMT 1
The only real issue the fans had is that Moore didn't win games.
Saturday was rubbish for 65 minutes, but changed once we got the first goal. The atmosphere then lifted and it was enjoyable. More enjoyable than ANYTHING under Moore.
If we'd have won 4-0 under Moore, the crowd would have been just as happy, but there's not a cat in hells chance we'd have done that. We'd have sat back on 1-0 and conceded the obligatory late equaliser.
Every manager has injuries, it's not an excuse. Moore didn't win enough games, and quite frankly, his record is amongst the worst ever here. He is most definitely one of the worst managers we've ever had.
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Post by dugnet on Feb 5, 2024 15:50:43 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. What went wrong was that half our already weak, striker-light squad was out injured a lot of the time and he struggled to cope. Time and the January window has put that right, but they sacked him anyway. Not sure who they could have appointed back then who'd have coped very well with the hand Moore was dealt, though Im sure some might have done marginally better...some might have done worse too. His track record was sound, so not sure what they can learn from it, other than that it would be helpful to know what crisis is round the corner so they can appoint a manager who'll be able to cope with it. It'll be a gamble whoever it is, like it was with Moore. they'll probably go for someone who's more 'media comfortable' as that seemed to become a huge issue for a lot of fans. I take the point but I don't agree. There were definitely mitigations but Moore couldn't essentially find ways to win games of football. His inability to do so was highlighted by what Worthington achieved on Saturday. Don't get me wrong there wasn't a transformation but there was an intention to be positive and play forward. In truth the injury to Healy helped in as much as it allowed Wiles to show he has more than we have seen so far. Would Moore have made the same change? I doubt it very much.
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Post by dezzly on Feb 5, 2024 15:56:02 GMT 1
The only real issue the fans had is that Moore didn't win games. Saturday was rubbish for 65 minutes, but changed once we got the first goal. The atmosphere then lifted and it was enjoyable. More enjoyable than ANYTHING under Moore. If we'd have won 4-0 under Moore, the crowd would have been just as happy, but there's not a cat in hells chance we'd have done that. We'd have sat back on 1-0 and conceded the obligatory late equaliser. Every manager has injuries, it's not an excuse. Moore didn't win enough games, and quite frankly, his record is amongst the worst ever here. He is most definitely one of the worst managers we've ever had. He did have the 3-0 against Blackburn on Boxing Day but generally over the spell I take your point.
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Post by dugnet on Feb 5, 2024 15:57:10 GMT 1
I'll await for the announcement when they use the phrase "we conducted an extensive search"!! Of Cartwrights phone contacts Cartwright has to get this right, whoever it is, or he will go the same way as Bromby. From afar he looks like a bit of a chancer who is part of a culture and cottage industry that is English football. I'd have him on performance related pay, or at least incentivised. The thing is, do a poor job here and someone else is likely to employ him as an agent or some other grandiose title. Sorry that is terribly cynical of me.
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Post by desertstorm on Feb 5, 2024 15:58:09 GMT 1
I hope you aren't suggesting he's a high calibre candidate that you alluded to the other day 😉 You tell me ?!? 😉🤣
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Post by Uddersfield on Feb 5, 2024 15:59:49 GMT 1
I hope you aren't suggesting he's a high calibre candidate that you alluded to the other day 😉 You tell me ?!? 😉🤣 So it's Duff then?
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Post by mosher on Feb 5, 2024 16:02:18 GMT 1
He will but he'll also have to accept he isnt a PL manager anymore so will have to accept a Championship manager wage if he wants to work again, surely? Think Nagle will realise it is THE key appointment, so wont scrimp on it. You'd hope not but everything so far has played down investment in the team and management. Now that might be under promising/over delivering or it maybe linked to a sesnsible/frugal strategy. Money doesn't guarantee anything but, as we know from recent experience it is easy to burn it. It depends on what Mr Nagle is really trying to achieve. I know we have had some words but little detail (of the vision and ambition). As such if we don't attract someone like Cooper it naturally sets an expectation of the longer term strategy. That of course doesn't mean someone else can't be successful but we can't marry the ambition with actions and intent. There are too many loose ends and implied directions for me. I don't hear anything that worries me, but I have nothing to measure progress against. I cannot buy the argument that Moore was part of a long term plan because it didn't hang together with the story we were told in the summer (that NW would be here for at least the season). It all feels best intentions but a bit muddled at the moment. An appointment such as Cooper would set a completely different agenda. Apologies for a long winded reply to being unsure that Mr Nagle won't "scrimp". Top post as usual mate, but the highlighted bit was NEVER said, not AT LEAST the season anyway. It was always the full season at most unless I misinterpreted King Colin's initial words pre-season?
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Post by tepidterrier on Feb 5, 2024 16:04:55 GMT 1
If anyone watched the League 1 playoff final last season, they'll know that Duff is an improvement on Moore. Wednesday were as jammy as anything to win, and Barnsley outworked and outfoxed them even with 10 men.
This Beswicks thing is a bit fishy though. If Warnock's departure was linked to his involvement with his son's agency, and Ruffels signing with them, why is this any different?
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Post by dugnet on Feb 5, 2024 16:08:16 GMT 1
You'd hope not but everything so far has played down investment in the team and management. Now that might be under promising/over delivering or it maybe linked to a sesnsible/frugal strategy. Money doesn't guarantee anything but, as we know from recent experience it is easy to burn it. It depends on what Mr Nagle is really trying to achieve. I know we have had some words but little detail (of the vision and ambition). As such if we don't attract someone like Cooper it naturally sets an expectation of the longer term strategy. That of course doesn't mean someone else can't be successful but we can't marry the ambition with actions and intent. There are too many loose ends and implied directions for me. I don't hear anything that worries me, but I have nothing to measure progress against. I cannot buy the argument that Moore was part of a long term plan because it didn't hang together with the story we were told in the summer (that NW would be here for at least the season). It all feels best intentions but a bit muddled at the moment. An appointment such as Cooper would set a completely different agenda. Apologies for a long winded reply to being unsure that Mr Nagle won't "scrimp". Top post as usual mate, but the highlighted bit was NEVER said, not AT LEAST the season anyway. It was always the full season at most unless I misinterpreted King Colin's initial words pre-season? Happy to be corrected - my point was that I don't buy that Darren Moore was the "outstanding candidate" (I can see the argument he was credible) when NW was let go and Moore was appointed it didn't feel strategic, at least not to me. I just feel for all that I believe in Mr Nagle's sincerity, and welcome his recent openness, I am not convinced there is much of a plan or strategy. If he has delegated that to JE and MC then they need to be held to account as this season has, so far, been incredibly disappointing. There is of course time to recover this but the fact we are in a precarious position, again, doesn't reflect well on anyone.
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Post by turbo2 on Feb 5, 2024 16:22:21 GMT 1
Top post as usual mate, but the highlighted bit was NEVER said, not AT LEAST the season anyway. It was always the full season at most unless I misinterpreted King Colin's initial words pre-season? Happy to be corrected - my point was that I don't buy that Darren Moore was the "outstanding candidate" (I can see the argument he was credible) when NW was let go and Moore was appointed it didn't feel strategic, at least not to me. I just feel for all that I believe in Mr Nagle's sincerity, and welcome his recent openness, I am not convinced there is much of a plan or strategy. If he has delegated that to JE and MC then they need to be held to account as this season has, so far, been incredibly disappointing. There is of course time to recover this but the fact we are in a precarious position, again, doesn't reflect well on anyone. 'Outstanding candidate' 'Plays attacking style' Just sounds bites. Trying to make us think they actually know what they are doing. Id rather a bit of honesty, at the end of the day its normally pot luck anyway
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Feb 5, 2024 16:26:17 GMT 1
I just hope they (Mr Nagle, or more likely JE and MC) have sat down/are sitting down to determine what went wrong with Moore? It clearly didn't work and from the inside they should be able to understand the issues and failings (noting that what we see is press conferences and on the pitch) and determine what is now required. Anyone can make a bad call, making another bad call is surely unacceptable? Let's hope they make a good call, borne from the experience of the last one. What went wrong was that half our already weak, striker-light squad was out injured a lot of the time and he struggled to cope. Time and the January window has put that right, but they sacked him anyway. Not sure who they could have appointed back then who'd have coped very well with the hand Moore was dealt, though Im sure some might have done marginally better...some might have done worse too. His track record was sound, so not sure what they can learn from it, other than that it would be helpful to know what crisis is round the corner so they can appoint a manager who'll be able to cope with it. It'll be a gamble whoever it is, like it was with Moore. they'll probably go for someone who's more 'media comfortable' as that seemed to become a huge issue for a lot of fans. You really are the champion of lost causes aren't you.
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