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Post by workshyfop on Apr 19, 2024 10:39:19 GMT 1
Probably nothing. Maybe compensation. I think the fact VAR was there and not used to look at an appeal when in the build up players had been told there was no need to harangue the referee as VAR would be used to check everything, then a few difficult questions could have been asked. Forest players were openly taking the piss while we accepted it. Just seemed strange. As for Welch, another bad decision and not much we can do about it now. All football fans probably gloss over the ones that have gone for them and remember the ones that robbed them, but we do seem to have had a lot to against us in recent years. Is it the size of the club? The ones that went for us that I can think of were in L2. The Pav offside goal against Lincoln at home and Mansfield’s disallowed “winner” in Cardiff, both where we were the bigger club. Plus the penalty against Lincoln in the play-offs. Lincoln fans still moan about that one and it's 20 years ago. Though personally, I don't think Andy Booth would dive, and we'd been denied one earlier on for a blatant handball so we were due one. Has a team ever been given compensation due to a decision going against them? Not sure, doubt it. My initial comment followed blackmoreisgod saying: “it's only a matter of time given the money at stake these days and the amount of mega rich foreign owners new to football before the PGMOL finds itself on the wrong end of a writ” It hasn’t happened to my knowledge, but probably is only a matter of time. The difference being it’ll be when a decision goes against a top 6 club. The likes of Town are powerless as yesterday’s scrapping of FA Cup replays proves. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 19, 2024 10:42:27 GMT 1
Plus the penalty against Lincoln in the play-offs. Lincoln fans still moan about that one and it's 20 years ago. Though personally, I don't think Andy Booth would dive, and we'd been denied one earlier on for a blatant handball so we were due one. Has a team ever been given compensation due to a decision going against them? Not sure, doubt it. My initial comment followed blackmoreisgod saying: “it's only a matter of time given the money at stake these days and the amount of mega rich foreign owners new to football before the PGMOL finds itself on the wrong end of a writ” It hasn’t happened to my knowledge, but probably is only a matter of time. The difference being it’ll be when a decision goes against a top 6 club. The likes of Town are powerless as yesterday’s scrapping of FA Cup replays proves. Nothing will ever change. I was in a minority, but I was quite happy when those clubs tried to break away to a Super League. I'd have let them go, fuck them. The game would have benefitted immensely, and it would have given other clubs a chance of glory. |
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Post by Terriersmad on Apr 19, 2024 10:52:04 GMT 1
I don’t think anyone (or many) are citing clear and obvious bias. But I’ll ask you this. Do you think PGMOL are fit for purpose? They strike me as puppets on a string given their funding model. No. But having watched football at various levels for years, I think officiating is at an all-time low. They are absolutely fucking rubbish at all levels. I watch Golcar when I'm not watching Town, and the amount of basic errors during a game is staggering. Decisions that are right in front of a linesman given the wrong way, fouls that are given one way but are 'play on' the other way. It's not just the odd decision either. Funnily enough, there's a couple of female refs at that level and every time I've seen them ref Golcar, they've had good games. It's usually the blokes that are absolutely useless. They played at Pickering earlier this season and the referee sin-binned a load of players, one of the managers was booked was shouting abuse at the ref (despite it being a supporter that threw the abuse), they were trying to get the linesman's attention to bring a sub on but the linesman (who had a hearing aid in both ears) couldn't hear them and then somebody else was booked for trying to get his attention. It was hilarious but it's a common occurrence. You go up to the Football League and they're just as bad there. I was at Oldham in 2022 (the game where they got relegated) and Bobby Madley was reffing. Oldham had a blatant penalty turned down and then in the second half, an Oldham player got fouled pretty badly and I don't even think he gave a free-kick. That was the incident that prompted the pitch invasion, as a couple of blokes at the front of the stand had had enough and they came on the pitch. You watch football on TV, no matter who is playing, and there's mistakes galore. Clear goal-kicks given as corners, foul throws literally all the time, keepers holding on to the ball for more than six seconds. Some fouls are given, then the same challenges aren't given as fouls. Some get booked for kicking the ball away, others don't. The referees are so bad now, it's untrue. You don't even mind some of the complex decisions not going for you, but what chance have you got when a linesman can't even give a throw-in the right way when it's two yards in front of him. I remember an incident down at Town a couple of years ago. The ball went out for a corner in the corner of the Riverside, right in front of the linesman. Instead of flagging for a corner, the linesman looked at the referee who was about 30 yards away and waited for the referee to give a goal-kick and then he flagged for a goal-kick. What chance have you got with idiots like that? In defence of the officials (there's a sentence I don't say often...) it's the people at the very top who need to explain themselves. They've taken a simple game and simple concepts and complicated them beyond all belief. Phases for offside, ludicrous definitions for handball that differ depending on which end of the pitch you're at, myriad rule changes year-in, year-out. Some of those are dead straightforward (a player being substituted off leaves via the nearest touchline for instance) but others come with a flowchart that an assistant referee, for example, needs to work through in a split second in deciding whether to raise a flag or not. The laws of the game, and the guidance that is released each season, lend themselves to inconsistency in their current formulation. Not helped by the fact that that guidance is at times opaque. I keep pretty up to date with it so when I have a criticism it's founded in fact, but I was unaware of internal guidance given by PGMOL to clubs that, to avoid surrounding officials, the third player who goes to a referee will be booked until the February after it was introduced because a) no officials stuck to it and b) Jarred Gillett did in a game involving Wolves last year, and it resulted in the Wolves player being sent off for a second yellow card. Also c) PGMOL didn't circulate it beyond clubs until that incident to back their man up. Nobody wins there. You can never eradicate the howler where officials lose track of the ball or just balls it up. You can limit scope for it by simplifying, clarifying, and making transparent the guidance. Reduce thought processes in the heat of the moment, reduce scope for mistakes. But also make players more accountable. In the top flight, turn VAR into something more akin to DRS in cricket, particularly with objective decisions such as offside. The captain has one appeal a half. Use that appeal and get it wrong, then you lose it. Then if the ref makes an error later, the fact you don't have an appeal is down to you and not down to the referee - think Australia in te Ben Stokes Headingley Test match in 2019. Burned their reviews, lost the match as a result when there was an umpiring rick. It also cuts down on surrounding the officials - the instant the captain disputes a decision, it goes upstairs. That's on you, lads, not the ref. But also fans need to be more educated. The guy I sit next to was screaming for a penalty the other week against Millwall when we had a free-kick and Pearson was being manhandled. The problem was that the ball wasn't in play. I had to explain that to him. His response was 'so he could just punch Pearson and get away with it?' Well, no. If that happened, it would be a red card for violent conduct. But it couldn't be a penalty because the ball was out of play. I've also had to explain to him that where the offence is committed is where a free-kick is given, not where the ball is. Granted, the latter was after the ludicrous new offside ruling came in, and a free-kick was given in our half (or theirs, genuinely can't remember) for an offside. See above for my opinions on that - utterly ridiculous. |
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ram
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ram on Apr 19, 2024 11:07:18 GMT 1
I was sitting with my mate at that incident of the non corner,we were 10 yards away and watched that prat look at the ref. we couldn,t believe our eyes
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 19, 2024 11:09:16 GMT 1
I was sitting with my mate at that incident of the non corner,we were 10 yards away and watched that prat look at the ref. we couldn,t believe our eyes It was ludicrous. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 19, 2024 11:11:23 GMT 1
No. But having watched football at various levels for years, I think officiating is at an all-time low. They are absolutely fucking rubbish at all levels. I watch Golcar when I'm not watching Town, and the amount of basic errors during a game is staggering. Decisions that are right in front of a linesman given the wrong way, fouls that are given one way but are 'play on' the other way. It's not just the odd decision either. Funnily enough, there's a couple of female refs at that level and every time I've seen them ref Golcar, they've had good games. It's usually the blokes that are absolutely useless. They played at Pickering earlier this season and the referee sin-binned a load of players, one of the managers was booked was shouting abuse at the ref (despite it being a supporter that threw the abuse), they were trying to get the linesman's attention to bring a sub on but the linesman (who had a hearing aid in both ears) couldn't hear them and then somebody else was booked for trying to get his attention. It was hilarious but it's a common occurrence. You go up to the Football League and they're just as bad there. I was at Oldham in 2022 (the game where they got relegated) and Bobby Madley was reffing. Oldham had a blatant penalty turned down and then in the second half, an Oldham player got fouled pretty badly and I don't even think he gave a free-kick. That was the incident that prompted the pitch invasion, as a couple of blokes at the front of the stand had had enough and they came on the pitch. You watch football on TV, no matter who is playing, and there's mistakes galore. Clear goal-kicks given as corners, foul throws literally all the time, keepers holding on to the ball for more than six seconds. Some fouls are given, then the same challenges aren't given as fouls. Some get booked for kicking the ball away, others don't. The referees are so bad now, it's untrue. You don't even mind some of the complex decisions not going for you, but what chance have you got when a linesman can't even give a throw-in the right way when it's two yards in front of him. I remember an incident down at Town a couple of years ago. The ball went out for a corner in the corner of the Riverside, right in front of the linesman. Instead of flagging for a corner, the linesman looked at the referee who was about 30 yards away and waited for the referee to give a goal-kick and then he flagged for a goal-kick. What chance have you got with idiots like that? In defence of the officials (there's a sentence I don't say often...) it's the people at the very top who need to explain themselves. They've taken a simple game and simple concepts and complicated them beyond all belief. Phases for offside, ludicrous definitions for handball that differ depending on which end of the pitch you're at, myriad rule changes year-in, year-out. Some of those are dead straightforward (a player being substituted off leaves via the nearest touchline for instance) but others come with a flowchart that an assistant referee, for example, needs to work through in a split second in deciding whether to raise a flag or not. The laws of the game, and the guidance that is released each season, lend themselves to inconsistency in their current formulation. Not helped by the fact that that guidance is at times opaque. I keep pretty up to date with it so when I have a criticism it's founded in fact, but I was unaware of internal guidance given by PGMOL to clubs that, to avoid surrounding officials, the third player who goes to a referee will be booked until the February after it was introduced because a) no officials stuck to it and b) Jarred Gillett did in a game involving Wolves last year, and it resulted in the Wolves player being sent off for a second yellow card. Also c) PGMOL didn't circulate it beyond clubs until that incident to back their man up. Nobody wins there. You can never eradicate the howler where officials lose track of the ball or just balls it up. You can limit scope for it by simplifying, clarifying, and making transparent the guidance. Reduce thought processes in the heat of the moment, reduce scope for mistakes. But also make players more accountable. In the top flight, turn VAR into something more akin to DRS in cricket, particularly with objective decisions such as offside. The captain has one appeal a half. Use that appeal and get it wrong, then you lose it. Then if the ref makes an error later, the fact you don't have an appeal is down to you and not down to the referee - think Australia in te Ben Stokes Headingley Test match in 2019. Burned their reviews, lost the match as a result when there was an umpiring rick. It also cuts down on surrounding the officials - the instant the captain disputes a decision, it goes upstairs. That's on you, lads, not the ref. But also fans need to be more educated. The guy I sit next to was screaming for a penalty the other week against Millwall when we had a free-kick and Pearson was being manhandled. The problem was that the ball wasn't in play. I had to explain that to him. His response was 'so he could just punch Pearson and get away with it?' Well, no. If that happened, it would be a red card for violent conduct. But it couldn't be a penalty because the ball was out of play. I've also had to explain to him that where the offence is committed is where a free-kick is given, not where the ball is. Granted, the latter was after the ludicrous new offside ruling came in, and a free-kick was given in our half (or theirs, genuinely can't remember) for an offside. See above for my opinions on that - utterly ridiculous. Bang on about the people at the top. As we’ve moved into a mass media age, top flight football has simply sold itself to the highest bidder. None of the complexity was around in the pre-PL days, no money, TV highlights were scarce (remember getting giddy at Leeds Rd when you saw the camera vans there?) So much has changed and the football authorities have morphed into a corporate entity, not a sporting body. When you have a much more level playing field and a governing body that is genuinely or reasonably impartial it worked. Supporters moaned but were done moaning after they’d left their mates/place of work etc. Just imagine if the governing body (the FA) was a company that was struggling. They would look at the least productive workers/departments (irrespective of root cause) & make those redundant, keep the profitable bits. If the FA had their way, they would make loads of clubs redundant, they’d wash their hands of these clubs and the history, supporters etc. It’s all about the balance sheet when it should still be about the integrity of the competition. I won’t be one bit surprised if some journalist uncovers rampant corruption within the FA and PL in years to come. I doubt it’ll change much though, look at FIFA and Blatter. Did he really get any sort of punishment befitting the corruption he oversaw. Same goes for the IOC. Ludicrous sums of money and sport don’t mix, they only support a huge fucking cabal with TV, betting and the corporate boards of these footballing bodies. |
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Post by townarentbest on Apr 19, 2024 11:24:43 GMT 1
The PGMOL seems to be all about acknowledging/apologising for mistakes rather than improving the quality of officials. They even now have a t v programme to criticise referees who work for them. it's only a matter of time given the money at stake these days and the amount of mega rich foreign owners new to football before the PGMOL finds itself on the wrong end of a writ Not whilst all clubs agree to play by the laws of the game; The referee's decisions regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. A referee or match official is not held liable for any loss suffered by a club which is due to any decisions taken. ie - a referees decision is final even if they make a mistake. Tough. Its how football HAS to be played. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 19, 2024 11:39:09 GMT 1
it's only a matter of time given the money at stake these days and the amount of mega rich foreign owners new to football before the PGMOL finds itself on the wrong end of a writ Not whilst all clubs agree to play by the laws of the game; The referee's decisions regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. A referee or match official is not held liable for any loss suffered by a club which is due to any decisions taken. ie - a referees decision is final even if they make a mistake. Tough. Its how football HAS to be played. A wide player like Thomas should have had a number of penalties given in his favour by now. The fact Sorba has consistently crossed the ball long before he reaches the box isnt the officials fault. We have not had midfielders breaking into the box in numbers or in times they did it, again not the officials fault. The laws of the game have not truly gone against us, the percentages certainly have but we have not played them to our advantage. We dont have VAR we have humans making a decision in a split moment and from wherever they happen to be at that exact moment, as we rarely ask them to make a decision on a penalty we are unlikely to get one. How Helik hasnt got a few pens for us is however a mystery to me. Said before we watch him closely at set pieces, the 'record' so far is two holding his shirt and one wrapped around his neck, they might as well have kicked him in the tunnel or assaulted him as he got off the team coach, both would have been about as much 'playing' the ball as they do on the pitch?  ? After a while of watching it happen again and again it does make you start wondering. I truly believe Helik playing for Leeds etc would get at least 3 or 4 penalties a season in the championship, if not more in a good season. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 19, 2024 12:17:42 GMT 1
Plus the penalty against Lincoln in the play-offs. Lincoln fans still moan about that one and it's 20 years ago. Though personally, I don't think Andy Booth would dive, and we'd been denied one earlier on for a blatant handball so we were due one. Has a team ever been given compensation due to a decision going against them? Sheffield United got 18 million off west ham regarding the teves goal that sent them down This came up in conversation the other day. Can’t remember the figures, but there’s a huge disparity in their revenues since this incident. Not to mention WHU got a stadium on the cheap (a bit like their grubby owners TBF)… Another London club that the media will embellish. Not sure how their honours list looks though. Always a ‘name’ but with a very Spartan trophy cabinet? |
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Post by DATM Travel Agent on Apr 19, 2024 13:59:36 GMT 1
Sheffield United got 18 million off west ham regarding the teves goal that sent them down This came up in conversation the other day. Can’t remember the figures, but there’s a huge disparity in their revenues since this incident. Not to mention WHU got a stadium on the cheap (a bit like their grubby owners TBF)… Another London club that the media will embellish. Not sure how their honours list looks though. Always a ‘name’ but with a very Spartan trophy cabinet? That wasn't about a refereeing decision though, that was around dodgy third party ownership rules so Tevez shouldn't have been allowed to play in the first place. |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Apr 19, 2024 14:51:06 GMT 1
It was. Lees was half a yard beyond the last defender when the initial free-kick came in. Ok. We are looking at different aspects of the goal. Was thinking you was saying Rudoni was offside, which he wasn't. Just tried to see the goal on sky again, but it's not available. All videos of this season's games are available to view through my website, here -> huddersfieldtowncollection.wordpress.com/youtube/ |
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digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by digs on Apr 19, 2024 15:31:20 GMT 1
Ok. We are looking at different aspects of the goal. Was thinking you was saying Rudoni was offside, which he wasn't. Just tried to see the goal on sky again, but it's not available. All videos of this season's games are available to view through my website, here -> huddersfieldtowncollection.wordpress.com/youtube/ Are they in the comedy or horror section? |
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Post by mosher on Apr 19, 2024 15:39:42 GMT 1
Are they in the comedy or horror section?  Or, like Shaun Of The Dead, they're featured in both |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 19, 2024 15:47:36 GMT 1
Are they in the comedy or horror section? They’re in the fiction section… I picked up a decent book in that section the other week. ‘Digs’ - my life story as a world crown green bowls champion. How fame & fortune led to a life of drugs, Dark Mild and pork scratchings… |
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Post by mosher on Apr 19, 2024 16:12:35 GMT 1
Are they in the comedy or horror section? They’re in the fiction section… I picked up a decent book in that section the other week. ‘Digs’ - my life story as a world crown green bowls champion. How fame & fortune led to a life of drugs, Dark Mild and pork scratchings… I keep seeing this crown green bowling thing, I remember seeing it years ago too, still no clue what the hell you're on about  |
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Post by Galpharmer on Apr 19, 2024 16:34:46 GMT 1
They’re in the fiction section… I picked up a decent book in that section the other week. ‘Digs’ - my life story as a world crown green bowls champion. How fame & fortune led to a life of drugs, Dark Mild and pork scratchings… I keep seeing this crown green bowling thing, I remember seeing it years ago too, still no clue what the hell you're on about Don’t get him started ffs. |
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digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by digs on Apr 19, 2024 17:50:29 GMT 1
I keep seeing this crown green bowling thing, I remember seeing it years ago too, still no clue what the hell you're on about Don’t get him started ffs. Excuse me! you know I don't like to talk about it,one can't help been the world bowling champion,it a heavy burden to bear |
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Post by nnnlove on Apr 19, 2024 17:55:25 GMT 1
Not sure, doubt it. My initial comment followed blackmoreisgod saying: “it's only a matter of time given the money at stake these days and the amount of mega rich foreign owners new to football before the PGMOL finds itself on the wrong end of a writ” It hasn’t happened to my knowledge, but probably is only a matter of time. The difference being it’ll be when a decision goes against a top 6 club. The likes of Town are powerless as yesterday’s scrapping of FA Cup replays proves. Nothing will ever change. I was in a minority, but I was quite happy when those clubs tried to break away to a Super League. I'd have let them go, fuck them. The game would have benefitted immensely, and it would have given other clubs a chance of glory. I was vehemently opposed to it when the story broke. Then I sat and thought about it for a while, thought about the wider ramifications for the rest of us - and now I'm 100% on the same side as you. Fuck'em. |
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Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ldr on Apr 19, 2024 18:02:41 GMT 1
Don’t get him started ffs. Excuse me! you know I don't like to talk about it,one can't help been the world bowling champion,it a heavy burden to bear Have you changed your name to Jack yet? |
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Post by blackmoreisgod on Apr 19, 2024 21:59:20 GMT 1
it's only a matter of time given the money at stake these days and the amount of mega rich foreign owners new to football before the PGMOL finds itself on the wrong end of a writ Not whilst all clubs agree to play by the laws of the game; The referee's decisions regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. A referee or match official is not held liable for any loss suffered by a club which is due to any decisions taken. ie - a referees decision is final even if they make a mistake. Tough. Its how football HAS to be played. I think there's 2 additional points I'd make here - firstly we increasingly have mega wealthy foreign owners with no connection or perception of value in the traditional game - for these people footall is just another investment vehicle - their passion is making money first & sport second. My second point is that it only takes one of these to break ranks & try serving a writ. That doesn't mean they will ultimately be successful but I suspect it will happen sooner or later |
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Post by irverino on Apr 20, 2024 23:12:54 GMT 1
Ms Welch will be in Yorkshire this weekend, thankfully not at JSS or making any decisions.....4th official & understudy to Anthony Taylor at Bramall lane for Sheff Utd v Burnley. Switched with Town fan Andy Madley, I bet he didn't have much to say to her today......Apart from 'watch & learn how the professionals to it Bitch' |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 28, 2024 13:46:58 GMT 1
Just bumping this post because I think this moment will be talked about for a long time on here, even if we do bounce back, it’ll be up there with Jon Moss and a few others…
Chin up folks. L1 Refs can’t be too bad, surely…
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Post by griffa on Apr 28, 2024 14:10:05 GMT 1
Just bumping this post because I think this moment will be talked about for a long time on here, even if we do bounce back, it’ll be up there with Jon Moss and a few others… Chin up folks. L1 Refs can’t be too bad, surely… During the last 4 games, we had penalties awarded, neither of which should been given, (game changing decisions) & last week referee should shown a red card to the Swansea goalkeeper, (game changing decision). Yesterday we had the dreadful Matt Donohue, (he has previous with Town), yesterday's game was full odd referring decisions, particularly when he decided not to book players! Don't want to see Rebecca Welch referee another Town game, as she's cost us 3 points, this season, consistently poor refereeing - UTT. |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 28, 2024 14:25:36 GMT 1
She’s not the only poor ref out there get off her case. We’ve been abysmal this season and have deserved to go down.
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Post by utttrooper on Apr 28, 2024 14:28:46 GMT 1
She’s not the only poor ref out there get off her case. We’ve been abysmal this season and have deserved to go down. The ones at Wednesday away, Swansea away and Bristol City at home all cost us 2 points as well and don't get talked about enough. Whilst we've been pretty shite this season, we've also never had much luck whatsoever. |
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Post by rockwall on Apr 28, 2024 14:33:50 GMT 1
She’s not the only poor ref out there get off her case. We’ve been abysmal this season and have deserved to go down. The ones at Wednesday away, Swansea away and Bristol City at home all cost us 2 points as well and don't get talked about enough. Whilst we've been pretty shite this season, we've also never had much luck whatsoever. The reason she will get more shit is because of the stage of the season, the importance of a result and the timing it was given. Not only was it not a penalty, how she could even be so sure it was to give it, blatant cheating. Yes, we have been abysmal and shouldn't rely in a decision as the blame. But it was disgraceful, whether you are top, bottom or a nothing game the decision was clear bias. |
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Post by softboy on Apr 28, 2024 14:44:55 GMT 1
The Bristol player waved his arms in her face and shouted at her for it. It wasn’t bias she just guessed. As a number have said it was the signifance of that game, had it been at the beginning of the season then we would have just shrugged our shoulders and probably said ‘useful point’.
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Post by stinkypete on Apr 28, 2024 14:49:35 GMT 1
We’d still be in with a shout had it not been for that ridiculous decision!
We’ve got what we deserve though.
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Post by CowshedJack on Apr 28, 2024 14:55:27 GMT 1
We’d still be in with a shout had it not been for that ridiculous decision! We’ve got what we deserve though. We couldn’t beat Rotherham, Blackburn, QPR, Birmingham and Plymouth who were all around the bottom. We deserve to be down. |
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Post by rockwall on Apr 28, 2024 14:59:59 GMT 1
We’d still be in with a shout had it not been for that ridiculous decision! We’ve got what we deserve though. We couldn’t beat Rotherham, Blackburn, QPR, Birmingham and Plymouth who were all around the bottom. We deserve to be down. 3 of those couldn't beat us either |
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